Obama is not black

For the same reason that if I tell you that he is white your first reaction would be surprise, denial and/or anger.

Journalists and those of us who buy the notion that America is somehow beating racism because Obama is doing great in the primaries are wrong. Obama is not black. He's mixed. I've never heard about America's need to overcome racism towards mixed people.

Pink is not red or white, even though it's a mixture of both. Pink is pink.
Coca Cola has a lot of water in it, but you don't order a can of water when you go to the store. You order coke.
Water is not hydrogen. Water is part hydrogen. Water is water.
You don't say that Obama will be the 44th white president of the US for the same reason you shouldn't say he will be the 1st black president of the United States: He will be (if he wins) the first mixed president of the United States.

Many journalists and ordinary people, even DU'ers, are too lazy (no offense) to use boring phrases such as "the first mixed president" or long phrases "the first half white half black president". They are either lazy or look for a short word (black) that lends itself for a better, more heroic story.

If you want to send our children the message that if you are black and want to become president, you better hope your daddy or mommy is white, then go ahead and call him the first black president of the United States.

Mulatto is not a term we use anymore. Please leave that back with the ghosts of slavery.

Because they've been discriminated against? I agree -- in fact, that was the point.

:blush:

I don't believe in being racially offensive any more than the next person. But I think that the attitude of eliminating all uncomfortable discussion leads to historical amnesia and a sense that nothing existed between slavery and the civil rights movement.

There are terms that were not used as racial epithets but are uncomfortable because they hark back to a different time in race relations that is thankfully gone. ("Octoroon" is another one -- it is obsolete today for obvious reasons, but under Jim Crow it was actually used to denote a higher social status.) Calling up those terms is a short-way way of bringing back that whole era.

Enough history is already down the memory hole to make possible hithe kind of preposterous argument that the OP was making. If Dinesh D'Souza had made the same claim in an effort to deny affirmative action to people of mixed race, he would mocked and belittled on DU. That's all I'm saying.

This is a different world from the mid-20th century, but Obama's mixed racial background is a very live issue. It may gain him some votes, but it also affects many voters' perception of his abilities. It is a real issue in the election if he becomes a candidate.

I don't know if that is how it is today. Would really like to know.

:popcorn:

:rofl:

No comedy on TV can compete.

Uhhh...have you studied U.S. history?

:grr:

I guess we don't have ANY blacks in America.

America is a mixed nation, always has been. There are not pure blacks or pure whites except those who just came off the boat -- and even then.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22248094/

"Genes change rapidly as they recombine generation after generation as a result of sex. So scientists look for markers on the most stable elements of our genome — the Y chromosome, most of which you get only from your dad, or mitochondrial DNA, most of which you get only from your mom. The stability comes at a price. Those genes represent a very narrow glimpse of your distant ancestors because only a few of their contributions are reflected in these particular packets of DNA. The potential for errors in trying to classify people using these markers into groups that don’t make much biological sense anyway is, to say the least, huge.

So forget plunking your money down with one of the many companies offering genetic analysis of your family tree. You will only wind up, as Watson did, with a classification based on a tiny handful of those who were actually your ancestors.

And most of the ability at present to analyze genes comes from comparing them to samples that have been collected and made public by various scientists and companies. But the sampling is far from complete so most genetic analysis for complex traits and behaviors including race is based on incomplete data."

I don't think his classification was based on a tiny handful of who was really his ancestors, as if it were an accident. I think his classification came from social expediency. It's better to be white than to be black.

And if you can't be white, when you must otherwise be black,
pretend to be:

* Jewish
* Italian
* Spanish
* Native American
* Turkish


We are all mixed race, in America.

:grr:

Whatever the hell it is you think you're doing, it's working. Trust me.

who gave you that authority?

wrong. People of mixed race decide how they identify- not some asshole who doesn't have a fucking clue. And most people of mixed background in this country identify as black.

...a black woman.

That's the experience of mixed people in this nation. If you're mixed, you're not white. You feel the prejudice of being black.

Race isn't like liquids. It isn't like Coca Cola. It's a creation of people, and when people look at a mixed person, they don't see 'mixed', they see black.

The OP doesn't argue that Obama is white, only that he is mixed. The OP doesn't argue that Obama should also be considered white if he is to also be considered black.

I think about what Halle Berry's mother said.

I also think about the curious transformation in people's perception of Colin Powell, when his 'whiteness' was revealed to be blackness.

Or Ray Nagin's.

Or General Russell Honore's (I'm misspelling his name -- he was actually Lt. General, I didn't remember that, as I look up Google).

I think it's intriguing that Obama does not run as mixed, but as black. There may be a generational divide with that as well, since many youth today don't embrace black and can't embrace white, so they embrace mixed.

the Black aspect of the relationship. Not for The non-Black side.

My family would disown me if I brought a Black woman home, for sure, although they would be cool on any other Race.

I myself, know of not one Asian, Hispanic, nor Arab who claims to get putdown or disgraced for choosing a 'non-Black' partner.

However, I know of multitudes of folk who's ENTIRE FAMILY have disowned them when chose to be with Blacks as mates ---especially when choosing a Black male.

An Idaho Caucasoid girl I know, had to witness her Father *cry real tears* when his surprise visit to her Arizona college-Apt., put him face to face with her (Black) boyfriend who answered her Apt. door. Her dad had only heard about his daughter having a boyfriend thru his wife, he wasn't aware of his Race, and of course...She WAS NOT aware that daddy was such a racist-xenophobe.

We all heard 'Dog-the-Bounty-Hunter' loudly. You may not like him, but he wasn't lying.

:shrug:

If you had a great-grandparent who was black, you could be a slave.

"Black" is more a social classification than a racial classification, and Obama fits the social classification.

Looks like 2 against 1. We win!

His father was 100% black, and that would have been more than enough to classify him as black for hundreds of years in the US.

I don't know where you're taking this, but I don't like it.

what's the point of this?

a brown-skinned man. There are black, brown, red, yellow and white people in the United States. That's a good thing.

Now let me tell you all something that perhaps you don't know about me. My late husband was black(not brown, black) Our daughter is bi racial, but on her birth certificat she is black. I guess according to United States law if there is one KNOWN drop of black blood, that is that!! As she grew to be a teen , she preferred to be called a Mulatto, and far be it from me, her mother, to tell her otherwise ! My husband and I considered her brown, and often wondered who she would choose to marry, black or white , but decided to just let that go and assume she would marry whoever she fell in love with. Good choice right??? I think so. As it turned out, almost two years ago she married a white man of German, Irish decent. I am also of Irish, Scot, and Native American decent. Last August they had a son. He was born with blond hair, blue eyes, and white skin. No one believes he's hers, but.........my dear "friends", who are ever so slightly biased or bigoted, whatever you choose to call it, this baby's birth certificate says he is black. Now go figure........??????????

One day last a Genealogist doing research found a page on the internet that said...Captain Thomas who came to Henrico County in 1611, is one of Obama ancestors, he is also mine, the Oboma thing I DO NOT HAVE PROOF OF, I am German, SCotish,Irish and English, think Capt Thomas came from WALES, this unproven article went on to say that Bill Bradley came from the same ancestor.

don't worry, you are in GREAT company!

That was enough for 56 more years of segregation.

them, they already would have nominated Jesse Jackson, Cynthia McKinney, Charlie Rangel or any number of outstanding African Americans already. Obama is popular among whites because he's more like them sort of like Oprah, with the ability to walk with each foot straddling both cultures. No white candidate has to do that. As a Hispanic, I also believe this is the reason Bill Richardson can get white votes. He doesn't scare white people. No America really hasn't put racism behind it yet.

American slaves were Africans just like his father is. Why the separatism? We're one and the same. Africa is the homeland of American slaves. Maybe I misunderstood your post. No?

like, black immigrants are treated differently than black natives.

like, maybe there's a difference in attitude.

i don't know. would black immigrants display the defeatist attitude of certain black natives to the question of an Obama presidency in the first place?

we are all black, but there are divisions of blackness. that's true. plus Obama was raised by his white mother and then his white grandparents. Obama apparently speaks in his books about treading that line, and having to deal with feelings of an identity crisis, and of trying to be hyperblack to compensate for his mother being white. i haven't read his books, though, to know for myself.

I dated a guy who had a white father/black mother. He was very conflicted. Tried to over compensate to appear "black enough". He seemed kind of depressed and I was never able to get through to him. I guess it was difficult for him to deal with the balancing act. Unfortunately, we drifted apart. He kind of resembled Prince and even had a similar personality. A troubled soul.

Coming from the urban south, you can notice an interesting dichotomy. On the one hand you have a large number of white racists. On the other you have "native" blacks, and here and there, you have immigrant blacks - from the Caribbean, Nigeria, and Kenya mostly, where I was. The second category of black, for some reason, never counted as "black" for most of the racists I had the misfortune of getting an earful from.

Not sure what the deal is.

He knows what race he is every time he tries to get a cab in Manhattan.

If he's the nominee on 2008 this is going huge issue - no matter what his actual ancestry is.

Kennedy's Catholicism was a huge issue in 1960, but 44 yrs later most people didn't know or care that Kerry was Catholic. Hopefully before 2050 the race of a candidate will be a non-issue.

some white ancestry.

It would be ridiculous to call a black person white if that person had a grand-grand father who was white, and that's it. Obama's mother is white, and his mother's mom, etc. That's a lot of whiteness to call a person black, don't you think?

Obama is 50% African. There are very few black Americans who can say that. Most of us have much less African blood than Obama.

if it's above 50%, then at what level? and please back up your claim with some sort of evidence.

"hat's a lot of whiteness to call a person black, don't you think?"

As Sen. Obama has referred to himself as a black man on more than one occasion, don't you think it would be more relevant to ask him or his campaign?

Why would you insist on dividing the Black race based on your criteria. Strength comes from numbers. So what's your motive?

He sure is!

1) he says he is black
2) i'm sure all the times he could have been discriminated against, those doing so thought, "wait a minute, he is partially not black, so he's okay."
3) and all those kids with mixed parents, i guess they never faced difficulties, did they?

you are a rube.

and I'm fucking Black.

Wadda you gonna do about it?

I'm not.....and I know it.

Go through this thread and identify the White people in the pictures.......Because last I heard, I didn't hear anyone deny Halle Berry's claim to be the first Black woman to ever win an Best Actress Oscar.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/FrenchieCat/92

You're still treated the same as if you were 100% black.

Sad but true.

you have no business telling people what race they are.

who are you to argue?

it's disgraceful.

who are you to question that?

why are you deciding "how black" he is or for that matter, "if he is black"?

take a nap, you need it.

If we saw evidence of your super powers, then maybe you could validly call yourself Superman. yet without evidence, you're simply another guy on an ego trip.

Now, I've seen evidence of Obama's black heritage, therefore I see no problem with him calling himself a black man.


Should we wait to see if you can fly?

such as "mullatto".

I once knew a man originally from Barbados, West Indies, who was a teacher in a class I was taking. Neither black nor white, and not Hispanic. He would often feel confused when trying to fill out US government forms, there was no ethnic classification for him, he wasn't caucasian and not really African American. Basically in a sort of limbo-land when having to fill out government forms such as financial aid.

Among other things, my great-grandmother's birth certificate and her census records state that she is a "mulatto."

which have an entry for "mullatto". To me, that word seems derogatory but maybe I'm wrong. I suppose census can be considered recent, but what about things like financial aid, loan applications, especially federal forms? How do they designate mixed-race persons?

because she was mixed. :rofl:

1. In America, if you are "part" black, you are black. You will be discriminated against by the majority as if you are black. See "one drop rule".

2. "Mixed people" may well be doubly discriminated against - they are necessarily neither fully "black" nor fully "white" (or whatever other combination we're talking about). This is why Michelle Obama was on my TV on CSPAN answering questions about whether her husband was "too black" or "not black enough" (which she dismissed as irrelevant).

3. Almost every black person in the United States is "part" white. Many are as "white" as Obama. Incidentally many, many white people in the US are, unbeknownst to them, "part" black.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American#Who_is_African_American.3F (check out the last bit of that section in particular)

Sounds like a mini-constitution you just made up, lol.

Or just, talked to African Americans?

Are you seriously telling me that something in my post is wrong? I can't see where. It's pretty much basic stuff.

Good luck.

what a hypocrite you are. you just said that people are not black because they are half black and now you accuse somebody of making up arbitrary rules.

egads. just stop, stop.

Less like a mini constitution and more like a well thought out position.

(Gotta admit though--- you seem to be carefully selecting which posts you respond to: the more cogent the point, the less likely it is you respond to it...)

people were black on one side of their bodies and white on the other...

Obama can claim to be black because of the Taxi Test. It's also true that most African-Americans have "white" blood in them, so I wouldn't say he's not black because his mother is caucasian.

However, his blackness comes from a father who was NOT what we call an "African-American." African-Americans were brought over to this country in slave ships in the 1600s and 1700s, at the beginning of this nation's history; Obama's father was a Kenyan who flew over here on an airplane of his own free will in the 20th century. Thus, Obama has no real connection to the history and legacy of African-Americans.

Also, Obama's father was an East African; African-Americans' forbears came from West Africa: East Africans (like Obama) tend to be taller, thinner and more long-faced than West Africans.

Obama knows this: remember Obama's Iowa victory speech, how it began? He said, to an ecstatic crowd of supporters: "You know, they said this day would never come. They said our sights were set too high. They said this country was too divided, too disillusioned ..." How would you expect that sentence to be completed? And when that caucasian Iowa crowd cheered, what were they really cheering for at that moment? The idea that "They said ... a black man could never win here." But Obama knows he can't say that. So instead, he completed the sentence thusly: "to ever come together around a common purpose." Essentially, this was a nonsensical, content-free conclusion. "To ever come together around a common purpose"??? Whoever had won Iowa, surely it was because a plurality of voters would "come together around a common purpose" to vote for Obama, or Clinton, or Edwards, or anyone else.

She's white. She's very inspirational and the fact that she sees herself as a black woman does in fact show that she is not a racist.
But she's not black because she says so.

United we stand, divided we fall.

1st it was the House Negroes vs. the Field Negroes.

It indicates the wish of those to want some to consider themselves any but Black.

See South Africa as your example. Something that Black folks in America try to stay away from.

Obama is black.



:eyes:

"But she's not black because she says so..."

But she's white because you say so...?

people are mixed, we just haven't checked far enough back, thousands of years back. Get over the race thing.

Interesting. :hi:

that those in power used to CLASSIFY race. :wow: That is, Obama's skin tone is darker than a brown paper bag ergo Jim Crowe racists classify him as BLACK.

.. are not 100% African but they consider themselves black as do others. What is your point?

Calling a person one or the other is misleading. In the case of a mixture of 10% and 90%, it's an easy call.

Then what is the precise and relevant percentage of mixed parents before one may or may not validly call themselves black?

You say 50/50 is not, but 10/90 is. On what do you base that?

Somebody else posted it somewhere in this thread. That means still the vast majority of Black people in the U.S. are AFRICAN in descent without any mixed ancestry at all.

...because he was only half puertorican. Are we applying a double standard? Did you ever read a column raising the possibility that Connecticut may have had its first Latino senator?

The history of Latinos in America is very, very different from the history of blacks in America. The rules the old white Establishment invented (which you seem to think I just made up) were specifically to keep African-Americans first enslaved, then disenfranchised and uneducated, then politically neutered. Not that Latinos haven't faced similar discrimination - but there were longstanding, deep reasons the whites who were in power, especially in the South, had for keeping blacks and whites as separate as possible.

If you don't know this, I don't have time to tell you about it. I am already regretting spending ten minutes of my life finding the links to support for first post.

"Are we applying a double standard"

Jesus pal, it racism-- of course there's a double standard! In fact, there's more double standards than valid standards in most conversations about race-- you yourself appear to have subscribed to two of them in this thread alone...

Officially he's bi-racial but all in all, he's black.

You are categorized to the race that you most resemble, but they don't accept you because you are mixed.
The race that you least resemble also refuses to accept you because you look like one of "them".

I'm sorry. I think an argument can definitely be made for anyone of mixed heritage to suffer prejudice at the hands of both ethnicities.

I also think it is disingenuous for you to say Obama is not black. For God's sake, what color is he? Pink?

She was of traceable African-American, Cherokee and Scots-Irish descent. Her father was part Cherokee and her mother listed as "mulatto" on several US censuses.

So, according to you, she is also not black, but mixed. No wonder she refused to go to the back of the bus! She was sitting exactly where she was supposed to, the middle! :eyes:

Your argument is thoroughly lame, but I did find it interesting that, in a recent poll, only 55% of Caucasians consider Obama to be "black" while 68% of African-Americans do.

That's one drop of African blood, by the way.

I do think of him as biracial, but racists DO NOT. He is black to them.

he's now suddenly "not really black?"

It's nice that white folks want to claim him - or at least part of him - now. But throughout history, people with Obama's racial makeup have been classified BY SOCIETY, BY GOVERNMENT, and by all manner of white people as BLACK (previously known as "negro."). Obama didn't make the rules. Black people didn't make the rules. White folk made the rules and made it very clear that anyone with even a drop of black blood was black, no questions, no exceptions.

I'm sure Obama really appreciates that, in his 47th year, after spending his life having to negotiate with the world as a black man, he is now being welcomed as a long-lost son of white America. :sarcasm:

when the day comes that the majority of America look at Obama and just see a man. And even a biracial man. Not just a black man.

That day hasn't arrived yet, but the enthusiasm with which he is being greeted everywhere gives me hope.

That's why he was required to be a slave only half of the time. :think: Um, yah know what? Nevermind.

The whole concept of race has no basis in science. We are all African except some of us have superficial changes that adapt us to specific environments.

and there sure as heck is racism directed towards brown-skinned people in the United States of America.

;-)

my President

People don't ask for a copy of your family tree before deciding whether to make a racial judgment (assuming that it is a conscious thing, which it isn't most of the time). They judge on appearance, on names, on an accent. When people look at Obama, they see a black man. I bet there are many people out there who have no clue that his mother was white. And if they did know, would it matter? He is still perceived as being "different" in some way, and isn't that the basis of all discrimination, when it comes right down to it?

oh the humanity!

At least in every way that matters.

To clarify: race is not real but in the mind of the individuals in society. If you are thought of as black by people who don't know your parents, then YOU ARE BLACK.

since he had mixed heritage. The truth is that pretty much every black person in America has white ancestors if their families have been here since the slavery period. This post is idiotic on so many levels I can't believe I'm bothering to respond.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

If you've "never heard about America's need to overcome racism towards mixed people," you're living in remarkable ignorance for someone who would comment on America's politics.

:hippie:

wtf is your point?

There are no half humans. What the fuck is mixed? I don't agree with requiring racial purity and I don't think it's required to have a white parent to be president. There are black americans who oppose him because his ancestors did not come here as slaves. I think it's wonderful that he and Richardson and Tiger Woods are multicultural.

If elected he will be the first black president just like Richardson would be the first hispanic and Clinton would be the first woman.

In America if you have a good deal of "black" blood in you, you are considered black not mixed, biracial or mulatto or whatever other term you'd like to use. Read Plessy vs Fergunson if you are confused.

He's just not black enough.

I liked Obama's response to this particular criticism, during the YouTube debates. "You know, when I'm catching a cab in Manhattan ... I think I've given my credentials."

This is as transparently disgusting as Alan Keyes criticizing Obama for not truly "representing" the black community in America, because his father came from Africa recently so he was never descended from slaves. Well you know what? That doesn't matter. Because when racists look at Barack Obama, they don't half-hate him.

That's what he's trying to overcome.

you would call it Tyskland, the Germans call it Deutschland, We call it Germany.
And no one would be wrong.

Point is, it's all about point of view. If someone's racial
identity is of importance, it's best to ask them and leave it at that.

Who are we to tell someone how they should be racially identified.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

as are most black people! We come in all hues and hair textures because of mixing -- back in the day by force; today by choice!

And it's not a matter of laziness since most mixed people born before de jure desegregation were born in black hospitals or the black section of white hospitals and designatedas Negro on their birth certificates.

Obama, however, truly is African (father)-American (mother).

Only a minority are...that is a fucking myth. The percentage of African-Americans with Native American ancestry is even lower than that of those with European ancestry.

I'm mixed (white, black, Native American), look white, my birth certificate says Negro, though now I'm considered African-American -- the designation du jour I hate since my 'peeps' have been stateside for 6 generations (i.e. didn't just get off the boat).

And sorry, bud, but since I've been around black, mixed, African American... people all my over 50 something years, I will say unequivocally that most "black" people are mixed! Myth my ass.

so no.

what a laugh!

How do people fill out census documents or respond to census personnel?

I stopped believing the so-called official BS ages ago.

Besides when I have filled out census forms, I have only checked one box consistent with my birth certificate rather than the gamut that reflects all of what I am.

So what does that say for your alleged official?

so what?

...consider what you're saying. And look into the history of the one-drop rule.