My quesion. How did Hillary win? Period. nt

and basically gave orders to her incompetent advisors.

David Copperfield charged her a fortune, too! Either that or she just got more votes.

That is the ticket for winning an election....

because she cried. All's fair, apparently.

But enjoy!

It is certainly possible the display of emotion, in a form qualifying as grace under pressure to most witnesses, moved some people.

"An election differs from a civil war only as the bloodless surrender of a force outnumbered in the field differs from Waterloo."

aren't bullied into switching sides. They can actually vote their heart and let the chips fall where they may.

I don't recall anyone asking how Obama won?


edited for spelling error.

No intimidation, no cajoling.

one? = won?

it wasn't a conspiracy, it wasn't theatrics.

She won out on issues like the economy and she got a lot of support from women voters.

Either they didn't show up, or they had a last-minute "epiphany" and switched to Hillary.

The execessive media hype around Obama made it seem like he had it in the bag. People aren't driven to the polls to vote when they think the election has already been decided. Particularly younger people.

about relying on polls.

considering Obama pulls the most unreliable vote, the youth. It's quite possible they thought with his huge victory in Iowa that they weren't needed in NH.

I can see a groups of college kids geting together Tuesday night going "No I didn't go...OMG YOU didn't go vote either?"

if someone was going to 'tamper' with the voting machines, they'd make it a wider margin than it was. :eyes:

but some people are saying that it could be the untrustworthines of pre-polling, where people say they will vote for minorities but then don't. Chuck Todd and Katrina VanDenHeuvel pointed to this possibility on MSNBC. Which would be pretty sad. I tend to not think so, but then maybe that's just unfounded optimism.

Eugene Robinson on MSNBC said it could have been older women upset at the treatment of Hillary Clinton by the media and the other candidates, showing up at the polls in larger numbers than expected.

They are all speculating. Their vast amounts of polling numbers and exit polls aren't telling them.

My opinion: Hillary is a much better candidate. Obama is a lot of high-sounding words and little experience in either federal government or executive positions. Huge 45-Hillary to 34-Obama spread among Democrats only, without independents.

Hill.

You're right, and it doesn't matter.

Independents. McCain did very well and probably pulled more independents than expected. Obama's support included a significant chunk of independents and his numbers relied on them more than Hillary's. Hillary's support among Dems was much higher than Obama's.

Undecideds. One report indicated that the undecideds were as high as 17% in the polls. If the majority of them went to Hillary, that would significantly change the outcome.

Last-minute decision-making. Reports were that something like 40% of voters made up their minds in the final three days. The polls would be unable to fully account for that, especially people who decided just today.

Or, some combination of the above.

I think the Diner moment convinced a lot of people that she was sincere, and the support eroded.

I also don't think NH voters like being told who they are going to vote for.

and I had been saying that, even in seeing the climbing polls in favor of Obama.

the only reason this is so huge is because the media whores were going on about how she will lose big.

but Obama coming in just 2 points behind is not bad.

Especially considering NH was solidly Clinton country just a few days ago.

The polls got everyones expectations out of whack.

That she'll be happy to get to NH, where people can "make up their own minds". She was clearly counting on people either making up their own minds <cough> or Diebold making it up for them.

oh well. That's what hurt Obama tonight. Nothing more.

if they do in this election, it will be the first time.

This doesn't detract from the victory at all; however, I suspect the "inevitibility" meme worked against Obama in New Hampshire the same way it worked against Clinton in Iowa.

When supporters think their vote isn't needed, they are more apt to stay home.

On the flipside, when Supporters feel their vote is NEEDED, they tend to turn out.

Attacks on Clinton and the press declaring Obama the winner way ahead of time created a situation where Clinton voters turned out in large numbers, while Obama supporters didn't necessarily feel the need.

but what attacks? Are they attacks if it's true?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4006130&mesg_id=4007292


Hillary and Obama were extremely close in the polls among Registered Dems. It didnt get covered because everyone though the indys would turn out. The link above has links to a couple of the polls.

I have no idea of the breakdown.

cranky about MSNBC trying to blame their mis-calls on NH voters and trying to spin it into a racist issue. NH voted for Obama. Just not enough of them. Hillary's win is clearly in the polls they chose to ignore. No idy turnout - Hillary was slightly ahead.

I think it was 57% women earlier in the evening....not sure though.

who turned out in record numbers and then vanished.

They coronated him back in the day (McCain, too). The also love balanced budgets, and probably yearn for those days again. Bill came out the day before, got tons of media coverage with a "sobering" message - and people listened. Plus the % of women voting for Hillary. PLUS the splitting of the vote among people who don't want her as the nominee.

Those crying foul, claiming Diebold fixes, and the rest will be faced with exactly those charges if Edwards ever wins a primary. Guess, from the posters, that the next Obama win will also get a bit of static.

Everyone might just try and remember that your ox can also be gored. So always use a very small club when whacking the opposition.

In NH, Hillary won. Imagine that. Accept it. On to the next primary.

These two mailers, for example, distorting Obama's record, misrepresenting his positions, the first targeting women (young women in particular) and the second independents:

Hillary Mailer Attacks Obama On Abortion
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/hillary_mailer_hits_obama_on_abortion.php

On Eve Of Primary, Hillary Drops Negative Mailer Hitting Obama On Taxes
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/on_eve_of_primary_hillary_drops_negative_mailer_hitting_obama_on_taxes.php

to learn from all of this and those negative attacks through the mail are just hillary's speed.

http://futuremajority.com/node/888

She won by three percentage points!

Barack has one delegate more than her. It's nothing to get upset about! Let's move forward...there's still a lot left to do!

just a guess..