A wakeup call re Hillary and Hillary bashers from Markos (a must read)

Markos has done the best job of summing it all up for any bonehead to figure out (me included). Of all the pundits and dittoheads and analysts and radiotalk heads and bloggers around today, he's the person I listen to and trust the most.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/9/93912/04225/727/433534

"Hillary is my least favorite of the viable candidates on substantive grounds, and I'll be voting for Barack Obama here pretty soon here in California via absentee ballot. The second-to-last thing I want is Mark Penn and Terry McAluiffe anywhere near the White House. (The last thing? Another Republican administration.)"

Likewise, when I heard Terry Mc on NPR this morning I almost gagged. He did say, however, that one of the reasons for Hillary's win was she allowed her human side to show and that they would be capitalizing on this during the rest of the campaign.

"But the more assholish her detractors behave, the more you help her. The way she was treated the past few days in New Hampshire was a disgrace, and likely a large reason for her surprise victory. So keep attacking her for bullshit reasons, and you'll be generating more and more sympathy votes for her. Obama's "you're likable enough" was likely worth 2-3 points all by its lonesome self."

I'll not be voting for Hillary in the primaries and haven't given her a dime. But if she's the nominee, I will work my ass off for her and don't want to have to take back any stupid thing I said about her if I have to convince someone else to vote for her.

It seems to me that alot of this behavior and treatment Markos speaks of comes from the younger crowd, and while I'm thrilled to see the passion and excitement you all have help generate in this campaign, you all have to remember that in the end, we must elect a DEMOCRAT. So watch your words so you won't have to eat them.

ps - sorry if this is a dupe - I couldn't find another reference

but I'm turned off to the candidates whose supporters attack her unwarrantedly.

who is a strong Democrat but has been a bit lukewarm on Hillary, I am probably similar to many of the women who voted for Hillary in New Hampshire yesterday. And I can attest that Markos is mostly correct in his assessment. Where it's wrong? Mine wouldn't have been a "sympathy" vote but more of a "I just woke up and realized that women can be a HUGE force in the politics of this country" vote.

I was wearing my Hillary pin all day yesterday. I lost count of how many woman came up to me & said they'd voted for her.
My mom always voted for women regardless of party because we have to support each other.

Talk about a women's movement....
:yourock:

...make the same mistake the Native Americans made and let them divide us.
We women are a strong force. For over 200 years we have not had a chance to show what we can do. We were held back and held down. This is our chance.
She's smart, she's focused, she knows how the government works, she can work with someone she disagrees with to get things done, she's had experience with foreign nations, she'll bring our troops home responsibly and carefully, she fights for their care, She believes in support programs by the government, and she is right on a number of other issues. She knows people who can do any job to strenthen her administration, she believes in equal rights for all. She sees the problems and is willing to try to solve them.
The women of this country can be an influence on her governing because she knows we have ideas, she'll listen to us. Hey, you clear thinking, fair, men voters...won't you come along down this historic path?

If she isn't successful, she would not be the first president nor will she be the last who lacked success.

I'm voting for Hillary. I hope you will, too.

I live in Nh & have been working for her for the last few month so, yes, I voted for her. :grin:
I'm hope to be helping Hillary in Maine for their Feb 1st Primary.

I had so much fun working for a campaign, it was GREAT. We didn't carry our county but we got the State!

those shirts.

I LOVE that! :)

I wish I could wear one, but it doesn't work when worn by a man :rofl:

That could be the T-shirt of 2008! B-)

awesome.

That's just wrong, it's divisive and sounds bitter.

criticize, question, but attacking is wrong and divides us just when we need to be united

Ridiculous, but seriously, deal with it.

I used to be a Hillary hater too, before McClurkin, and then I took a second look at her. The nastiness of the McClurkin defenders sealed the deal.

the reason is because of the treatment she gets here at DU. The childish attacks on her are pathetic.

I still haven't picked a favorite but nothing said here for or against any candidate is going to influence that choice since most of it is bull shit.

"I'm about ready to pick Hillary ... a large part of the reason is because of the treatment she gets here at DU."

"nothing said here for or against any candidate is going to influence that choice..."

:shrug:

What was already siad had influenced me.

All the candidates have assholish supporters and assholish bashers. Why should that make any difference in your decision? Whatever happened to voting for someone based on the issues and how you perceive their leadership skills, electability, etc.

I wanted to read something substantive about the candidates here. What we got was a bunch of childish innuendo and lies mostly.

Until last night I wasn't going to vote in the primaries but watching the New Hampshire returns I am now leaning toward Hillary and that had nothing to do with the posts here. I saw Hillary, Bill and Chelsea all together last night and I don't think it would be a bad idea if they were all in the White House again.

If someone's supporters are arrogant assholes, then it's only logical to deduce that the the candidate has that aspect to his personality as well.. If you obama supporters actually thought this out, and considered human nature, why the HELL would anyone want to be part of a group that appears to be either sobbing sycophants or vicious attackers? We support people, buy products, choose friends, based upon how it makes us feel to be part of that. Doubt any Hillary supporters want to be part of that crowd.

Am I the only one bothered by this theory?

Please stop distorting the important lessons that are being learned.

Do you not like the word "sympathy"? How about "post-humanized votes" then? Terry and Kos both say that it was in large part her emotional moment/the mean way she was treated that has galvanized support for her.

And what important lessons are you referring to?

but its not like she's some unqualified hack and is garnering all these "sympathy" votes - and while I don't particuarly like her politics, she is more than qualified and capable of leading this country.

Whatever you want to call it, women are standing up and saying we're not gonna take this shit anymore, especially with men like Huck on the opposite side telling us that our place is in the home being subservient to some damn man. Hillary's in the same place women have always been. If you stand up, are strong, and agressive then you're a bitch. If you show the least vulnerability then you're hormonal. Well we're fed up!

Sorry, but I'm riled up!

Or that she wasn't capable or qualified.

:wtf:



Look, I don't know if a big or the biggest reason for her victory - maybe it was. What I do know is that the idea disturbs me.

in the end - will it matter?

It is going to be exciting, no?

so it's all good! :toast:

Maybe not sympathy as much as empathy. That was the word Mom used when she called me about the NH primary last night.

And as sharp of a tack as she is, it was a combination (inter-connected) of two things that has her now firmly in the Sen. Clinton camp...

1. The point where Sen. Clinton choked up on Monday and
2. The negative reactions to that point.

I'll mock a person (behind their back if stronger than me) who casts a vote for anyone due to sympathy, but empathy? There's a rather large (albeit subtle) difference between the two, and I can see a person voting for a candidate based on empathy.

Who knows...? :shrug: Certainly not me...

and, although an Obama supporter, I'm a woman and I felt my blood begin to boil. But then it occurred to me: Keep it up, Tweety -- you're electing her President. His venom works to her favor. His venom, and that of others, very possibly cost my candidate New Hampshire.

His Clinton obsession control his life.

coverage with that damn Tweety chirping Hilary this Hilary that all day long. I watch because of Keith Olbermann. I don't know how much longer I can stand it though.

They reminded working women of how men often sabotage an 'uppity' woman. If the boys keep it up, they're going to put Hillary in the White House.

Markos is right about Obama's 'likeable enough' comment. When I saw him say that, I was steamed. The guy got way too full of himself. This defeat is good for him. He's going to have to work much harder to win this thing. And no more speeches full of amorphous 'change, change' and nothing else. He's going to have to explain the specifics of all this change and how he's going to do it. He's going to have to earn this thing. And charisma alone won't do it.

That said, you are you right. Charisma alone won't do it"--neither will playing the "victim" and "terror" cards--the "whatever it takes to win" type of politics.

I've noticed an aspect of the negative journalists (and I use that term loosely) who are females. They treat Hillary with such contempt, like she's trying to sit at the popular table in the school lunchroom. Just like the last election when Bush was the jock at the popular table, and Kerry/Gore were the outsiders, this time it's Obama at that popular table (cuz he's a "rock star").

Can she carry the sympathy vote in the general election? or even moving forward in the primaries? or was this a one time event isolated in N.H?

no matter how they feel emotionally after a few days of media coverage and theatrics. There's evidence a lot of voters in New Hampshire didn't do that yesterday. She won 39-36 on the vote and the same people said Obama was more electable by a 46-36 margin.

Lame.

That's the type of BS that got Obama in trouble in NH yesterday

I am a NewHampshire voter only _I_ will decide what to base my vote on.

and Oh btw the way she is the best qualified for the job--I don't care what your polls say

eta;chalk this post up to a cranky New Englander who has been hounded for the last 6 weeks(or more)

did it occur to you the reason people responded to the incident in question is because it was the question the voters most wanted to here her answer to?

Why are you running for Prez?
Hillary answered & spoke with passion, the voters responded by voting for her.

Any time you start acting invincible, or act as though your candidate is a shoo-in, you're in trouble. People don't like being told what to do.. or who to like.

Just because Obama 'makes people cry' when he speaks, and is a 'rock star', does not make him the most electable. This phallacy is played out in every election... those of us who were around here during the last general election KNOW this. Vote for you you like in the primaries... NEVER try to guess who would win in November. You have no idea. And often things come out during the primary season that change things dramatically. No candidate is perfect.

:rofl:

BUT he was spot on for Iowa. No one predicted NH correctly and he even admitted that he was going out on a limb in the prediction.

It galls me how some of us can be so petty. Grow up. That shit is for the republics, not dems.

hope you do too!

Prior to the impeachment brouhaha Clinton's poularity ratings hovered in the high forties...When it was over his popularity ratings was in the seventies...The more he was bashed the more popular he got...

The MSM and elememts on the far left and the far right are going to bash Hillary all the way to the White House...

:hippie:

My support for her predates the assholeness of Obama's supporters, but my complete disgust with Obama comes from his sycophant supporters, and the sheer nastiness displayed by them.

And every other candidate's supporters - just saying :shrug:

Apparently you were not here last night, or the night of Iowa to witness it. I counted at least 20 venomous threads started by Obama supporters last night that alleged voter fraud by Hillary, amongst other things.

I have a lot of respect for Clinton supporters on this board, but I am continually amazed in threads by high fives for really rotten anti-Obama or anti-Obama-supporter posts that I see. I don't get into it usually, just pass on by, because I made a conscious decision to avoid supporter wars early on, and frankly I find Edwards supporters so much worse than any. But it's out there from Clinton supporters and it's out there regularly. One of the smartest Clinton supporters on this board never understood that the intent of the term "ObamaNation" is to translate to "Abomination" - simply didn't see it. And that's what happens. Each group only sees its own pain and doesn't see the pain inflicted on others. I'm not saying there aren't assholes among Obama supporters, there are, but I am saying the Clinton support group isn't free of assholes. Proof of this is that my Ignore list contains assholes from every single candidate support group, including both Clinton's and Obama's. They are the worst of the worst of each group, but there are still plenty on the loose. On any given day counting threads gives you a very limited picture depending on what is going on in the news. Trust me, I've done it many times and it's only evidence for that particular time.

are from the younger crowd who have not been weathered by the storm and don't understand that at the end of the day, we're all in this together. It's up to us older and hopefully wiser Dems, progressives, and liberals to teach how to fight without jumping in the mud first!