Why are Hispanic Value Voters assumed to NOT want to Vote for a Black Candidate?

When I ask about Nevada, and who is favored to win,
I always get this dismissive reply....."Hispanics just don't like Black People".

Why is the Hispanic Community who share much in common in their plight as minorities with the Black community so quickly assumed to not want to vote for a Black person?

I live in the Bay Area in Northern California, and I have had a lot of Hispanic customers and Iam Black, and I don't quite see the "hate" that many White whom I ask this question to, seem to see.

What I see is:

Hispanics are deeply religious
African American are deeply religious

Hispanics are socially conservative
African Americans are sociall conservative (although less so)

Hispanics are oftentime discriminated against
African Americans are oftentime discriminated against

Hispanics have had to fight for their justice in history (Chavez)
African Americans have had to fight for their justice (MLK)

Both groups have higher portion of youth population in jail compared to Whites.

Both groups with lower per household income, oftentime in depressed neighborhoods.

Both groups tend to live in extended family situations

Both groups receive Affirmative Action of sort in various areas.

---------------------


So when I think about it, there are only a few differences (which are perceived differences, as opposed to anything else) that would lead me to put any creed in this oftentime heard, but not totally understood, "Hispanics and Blacks don't like each other" mantra:

Myths generated by the ruling classes to keep minority numbers diluted- built hatred towards the powerless against each other, while continuing to want "to be" accepted by the ruling class, i.e., United they stand, divided they fall

Gang issues related to urban LA areas (The young people don't vote though) born out of poverty and frustration of the youth. (although various Black gangs kill each other too--and so race is not quite the total story--see turf wars)

Hispanics being coined as being "Hard Workers" and "enterpreuniring" resenting
African Americans who have been given the Stereotypical "label" of being "lazy" and relying on "government handhouts".

--------------
So can someone answer why socially conservative Hispanics would value Bill and Hillary Clinton and memories of Monicagate more than a politician who speaks of Unity and uplifting of the masses message?

I don't totally get the dismissive manner offhand manner in where a response "Hispanics don't like Black People" seems to be quite acceptable and not really up to debate.

What Am I missing?

race. What? You all believe that if you can convince others that if you do not support obama then we are all bigots and racist. WOW! All I said about a month or so ago was to alert the edwards and hrc supporters to look for obama to turn this campaign all about race and damn it scares me I was right.....

I did not realize this. I wasn't handed my talking points today.

Why does discussing race scare you my friend?

Isn't this part of the problem...that it cannot be discussed because people are "scared" of it.

Why is that?

I don't quite get the fear factor in this?

Because it is an issue where folks are passionate, or what?

Please let me know why my progressive brothers and sisters at DU
should feel "uncomfortable" talking about this.

Because "some people say..."

Hillary Clinton's Firewall

And if the contest is at that point between Clinton and Senator Barack Obama, then Clinton's edge over Obama among Hispanics, as seen in opinion polls, could prove decisive.

In a poll from the Pew Hispanic Center released earlier this month, Clinton led among Latino Democrats with 59 percent, compared to 15 percent for Obama and four percent for John Edwards. In polls taken last week in California, Florida, Illinois, New York, and Texas by ImpreMedia, the largest Hispanic news company in the United States, Clinton led Obama by an astounding average of 55 to six percent among Hispanic Democrats. Edwards got only 1.8 percent. Of course, even with this kind of support from Hispanics, Clinton could still lose those primaries, but it certainly gives her an edge.

There are some mundane explanations for Clinton's margin
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=314e8fae-3fd3-4af2-bfde-f0f8e069c1fe
-------------------

Hillary Courting Latinos to Offset Barack's Black Appeal
Hillary Clinton's campaign crew is actively seeking Latino voters to offset what they think is the fact that Barack Obama will be getting the majority of the black vote.

Senator Clinton's campaign is bracing for a possible swing of black voters toward her chief rival, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois, by focusing more attention on Hispanic voters. With one eye on the nomination and the other on the general election, Clinton, 59, has seeded her staff with Spanish-speaking operatives, starting with Patti Solis Doyle, her campaign manager.``I'm taking this one personally,'' Solis Doyle said. ``In 2004, Republicans made some inroads with the Hispanic vote. It's our intention to get that vote back.''Hispanics may play a key role in the 2008 Democratic nominating process as well. Obama, 46, whose father was Kenyan, will ``probably draw about 60 percent of the African-American community,'' said Representative Edolphus Towns, a black Democrat from New York who has endorsed Clinton. To win, ``she's going to have to beat him in the Hispanic community.''
http://vivirlatino.com/2007/08/22/hillary-courting-latinos-to-offset-baracks-black-appeal.php

instead preferring speculation... is broken.

Perhaps it's because "Hillary (is) Courting Latinos to Offset Barack's Black Appeal".

Just be polite and don't stare.
Maybe we can get Oprah Winphery and Donnie McClurkin to host a telethon for The Cure. :eyes:

LOS ANGELES - In a murderous quest aimed at "cleansing" their turf of snitches and rival gangsters, members of one of Los Angeles County's most vicious Latino gangs sometimes killed people just because of their race, an investigation found.


There were even instances in which Florencia 13 leaders ordered killings of black gangsters and then, when the intended victim couldn't be located, said "Well, shoot any black you see," Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca said.

"In certain cases some murders were just purely motivated on killing a black person," Baca said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071231/ap_on_re_us/gang_takedown

That violence occuring between two minority classes makes them all automatically hate the others?

Isn't that what race and prejudice is about?

One type of folk hating another entire type of folks based on color and ethnicity?

I don't see it this way in Northern California.

Do you think this extends to Nevada too.

This group think hate business?

They ALL vote the same way? Because if you don't think that, then why would you think that about Hispanics?

which is why my op says "assumed"....because that is what is being reported in the press.

I have never believed that the press is saying what it actually is.

It was the work of 204th Street, a Latino gang that terrorized the neighborhood and was known to attack blacks. An upstairs unit in the complex was its unofficial headquarters, police say.

On Dec. 15, 2006, two members allegedly gunned down Cheryl as she stood talking with friends. Police say the youth accused of shooting the black teen had used a gun acquired at the fourplex...
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-gateway30dec30,1,1970709.story

...Latino street gangs, while feuding with each other, are now also the chief perpetrators of hate crime, especially against blacks, according to the Los Angeles County Human Relations Commission.

:nuke:

one way or the other around here.

I think people who get fussy about race in New Mexico find themselves gibbering in a corner somewhere, shirt covered in drool. That's how mixed this state is.

They just like Hillary better...

Hillary and Bill do not represent "family Values" based on what went on when this country was turned upside down based on infidelity and untruth spoken.

That's why Bush was able to win over so many Hispanic voters in 2000.

Many Hispanics, especially those well to do tend to vote Republican.

The the poorer Hispanic tend to be as liberal as African-American voters.

"Hillary and Bill do not represent "family Values" based on what went on when this country was turned upside down based on infidelity and untruth spoken."

Just remember , Hillary will be #44...

~

part of his platform in 2000 was "restoring dignity and Integrity" to the White House. That was about the not so good side of the Clinton family legacy, if one was honest.

The Latino vote was effected by this, in looking at the numbers.
Because Hispanics have a tendency generally to be more socially conservative due their religion, and family value orientation. With the GOP using the immigration issue, it puts a certain confusion into the mix, and that is what may bring back a lot of Latino voters to the Democratic fore that had left. That and War and other F*ed up things that the GOP represents.....

But I'm talking about why many left in the first place; left the Democratic party.

Orozco said that both Republican and Democratic presidential candidates have failed to adequately voice support for Latino residents and that the debate has been harmful to both parties.

“It’s because of their lack of action and honesty in immigration policy,” Orozco said about Democrats.

“While Republicans have been the ones actively proposing legislation that’s more punitive, Democrats have not stood up anywhere close enough to ask for the fair policy that we feel needs to be considered.”

Nonetheless, Orozco said he believes the immigration debate has likely harmed Republicans more than Democrats.

President Bush in 2004 received 44 percent of the Latino vote, according to the National Elections Pool exit poll. In his 2000 race, Bush had 31 percent of the Latino vote, and in 1996 Bob Dole won 21 percent.

The Latino vote is significant. In 2000, for example, the popular vote separated Bush and Al Gore by 0.51 percent.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0907/5805_Page2.html

Blacks are tall and Hispanics are short? (Ducking and running).

I was a member of an "all-white" team that included many Hispanics. Once a season we played an "all-black" team. The racial epithets came flying in the practices the weeks before "The Big Game" from both whites and Hispanics (this was in the wake of the Watts riots of 1965). I got the sense that when the three groups are thrown into the mix, Hispanics tended to side with whites.

power on the totem pole and be glad to have someone below you to hate type of situation?

I thought it odd that Hispanics would join in with whites in hurling epithets when we were preparing for a game against an all-black team, but absent the black team, we went back to deriding each other.

I would've scratched my head in bewilderment, except I was wearing a helmet...

*sigh*

I guess racism plays a part, I mean lets be honest. I have always heard hispanics and blacks will kill each other in gang warfare and that there is tension between them. Its the same that there is a tension between black and white. Who knows why, but its a reality.

it's cause "some people say..."

Yeah...

When I worked in a large retail establishment (rhymes with Fall-Mart) we had dozens of people from both Haiti and Jamaica. They hated eachother. They fought constantly. And it wasn't just a thing where there were personal beefs between individuals. In the lunch room all the haitains sat together and all the jamaicans sat together. if they talked to eachother, it was usually to yell at eachother.

I have no idea why they didn't like eachother. And before I worked there it never would have occurred to me that there would be such division among people. But it exists, and it's real.

And I knew a hispanic manager there who absolutely loved me from the first day I started working there. why? Because I was white and she was tired of working with "lazy" black people.

Maybe that might give one a clue as to why some hispanics don't like black people - maybe they think their work ethic is less than theirs.

I don't know. I can just go by my limited observation from what I saw when I was working in a very culturally diverse workplace environment.

You answered without accusing me of an agenda, as many others here are doing.

I appreciate that, and it is not because of your Obama avatar...but because you didn't assume that I was up to something via my question, and your post bears substance, even if it isn't very pleasant.

Where's the beef?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22458198/



and



I saw another section of the poll which was cut out, which detailed which percentage of Blacks, Latinos and Asians were willing to interact with Whites versus members of any of the other groups.

You can make your own guesses about what each group said.

It was telling, but after reading the above, the results should not have been surprising to me. I'd have to find out where the rest of the study is, though, to get the full percentages.

When I ask about Nevada, and who is favored to win,
I always get this dismissive reply....."Hispanics just don't like Black People".

:shrug:

She wanted to know, you wanted proof of examples. you didn't say what proof and what examples you were seeking.

So I provided some, myself. It wasn't what you were looking for.

May I ask, what are you looking for?

Frenchie writes: "Why is the Hispanic Community who share much in common in their plight as minorities with the Black community so quickly assumed to not want to vote for a Black person?"

Latinos are not the black community, the Latino community is substantially different from the black community; but I understand where Frenchie is coming from that black and brown are down ... the unstated is that black and brown are down against white.

And that's not true at all. For a variety of reasons, but the fiction is there, anyway, so a false camaraderie is assumed between two very different groups of people.

Or rather... a camaraderie which can exist and should exist is built upon a foundation which is false, a foundation of false expectations, rendering the camaraderie shaky and ill-built.

It doesn't have to be that way.

Some truths need to be aired out first, though. After that, a true coalition between native Black and the different groups of Latino can
be built, strengthened and expanded upon.

Same thing needs to be done between native Black and immigrant Black, by the way. And within the different groups of Latinos, internally.

:shrug:

i've been there, myself. but anecdotal isn't really taken seriously here. that's all.


or were you looking for an explanation of something else?

That is the real world. It isn't theory. That is what you are missing.

Just for the record - Hispanics are "afraid" of black people because they know black people don't "like" them.

:puke:

The racism comes from the group that should most understand it.

I'm half Hispanic, and grew up in low-income, mixed-race neighborhoods all my life, in TEXAS, and I still say it's racist BULLSHIT.

just Wow. :wow:

If progressives are this bad, I can only imagine what the real world is like.

This IS scary.

My question is actually one challenging a theory that would represent a fair amount of racism, if it were true. There is an assumption being made that blankets entire segments of our population, and I am simply asking and to some degree challenging the "why does that make sense" question, and I am being considered as spouting racist drivel?

The willingness to point fingers instead of simply discussing the issue in a rational tone puts you in this thread, why, exactly?
:shrug:

Same as white racism needs to be dealt with, not assumed nonexistent.

Latinos are known for practicing Brown on Brown racial hate. It's a bad thing when a man can't get a job because his last name isn't Latin/Hispanic. His sin is being a Latino white with an Anglo white father.

It's a bad thing when a man enters a building because of the 'Help Wanted' Sign, but is told that by the suddenly disinterested receptionist that no jobs are available and the sign is wrong.... only to find out that Hispanics were hired right before and right after him. His only sin was being black. So he takes it to the EEOC.

How often are the Latinos on television white Latinos versus Indian or black Latinos?

And blacks aren't kind to Latinos, either.

The Korean versus Black conflict also isn't born of plain orneriness... there's reason for the conflict, which has spiraled into illogical hatred of the group instead of hatred (and fixing) of actions.

True fellowship and brotherhood requires truth, to get over the humps that exist between people, to get over the falsehoods, to get over the prejudices.

These are NOT ENTITIES... they are made up of individuals, and assuming the opposite is racist.

Point taken.

in my experience it applies mostly to older generations. I pointed that out in the Hillary in Nevada thread. I can't speak for Hispanics out West as I grew up in the Bronx with Puerto Rican parents.

I do know I have an uncle who is very well off and a life long Republican and would rather gouge his own eyes out before voting for a Democrat. My Dad too is Republican though not well off, although he is increasingly concerned about the environment, health care, etc. so I don't know.. My Mom was a Democrat and always voted that way. Like every other group, Hispanics are not monolithic. And yes, a lot of them like the Clintons and feel nervous about a young, inexperienced man with a thin resume becoming President. I know I do.

The elites like the plebes divided. The elites like to portray the latinos and the african americans as divided. It's pretty ridiculous--they share the same communities of economic interests and aspirations, plus there are millions who are BOTH latino and african american.

BTW Hispanic is not the term you want to use around latinos-- trust me. It's like approaching some guy who looks like he's of European descent and asking him if his fellow "anglo-saxons" feel the same way about this or that.

to demean and divide us.
I don't think that Hispanics are a voting block on race or gender issues.

But it appears pretty matter of fact....and casually done.

I have plenty of example here at DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4026518

After your OP?

:rofl:

Because I don't think you can help me with the honest questions in my op.

See Ya.

we're ready for a black man/woman" Not me, mind you - just everyone i know...

Our church has a Latino Minister who does sermons in Spanish....although ours is an Historically Black Church.....

I actually believe that Hispanics are much more inclusive than they are being credited by the national press and those carrying the water of this "Hispanics don't vote for Black" bullshit that is being repeated over and over again.

Human beings are human beings with all the good and bad that comes with being human. There is no perfection.

In my Iowa town, which is only a little over 50% caucasian, we not only had a great Latino turnout at the caucus, we had many Latino people supporting Obama (many were for Richardson, too). I don't think any Latinos went for Hillary, and maybe a couple for Edwards.

In fact, half our delegates chosen are Latino - which has never happened before in our precinct. I think this is great!

than this dismissive one note that I keep being given from some.

Which is why I was asking.

I'm Black, look Latino, and Speak French.

My only sister-in-law is Hispanic.

I posed a provocative question, But I'm being termed as though I'm attempting to antagonize.....and I don't get quite how it went there. :shrug:

if YOU hadn't attempted to broad-brush it in the OP.

I am white have never been prejudiced and just want to live in a country where others are like that. I guess fantasy time...

I was raised in a all white town in CA but maybe since it was CA my parents were democrats and raised me to treat all people as equal so when I moved to other areas through out my life I see people that way.

We are all the same inside with feelings of happiness, hurt and pain. Why can't people just look beyond that?

thats one of many things I like about the internet is you don't have a clue what the person you are writing to looks like and it makes everyone on the same playing field.

What I like about other cultures is the difference we can bring each other in music, food, art, style, etc. We have so much to learn from each other if we are just open enough to accept it.

I think that is the number one thing about prejudiced people, they close themselves off from knowing who the people really are. Blinded by lies.

It's the same line they used in NH, just with a lil salsa.

If you do, that's sad.

They are going to bash her all the way to the White House...

I'm lovin it...

I dare you.

That's the problem with some that like making assumptions in their superior tone, instead of having something to add to the conversation would rather discuss me or my intentions.

I'm pretty honest in that.

Folks know where I stand for the most part.

One thing that I am not is all knowing and all seeing.

But if you consider this a bash, so be it.

"Two years ago, when the Census Bureau proclaimed Latinos the top minority in the U.S., many blacks loudly grumbled that they would be shoved even further to the margin among minorities. The new Census report shows that Latinos are now decisively America's top minority, are widening the numbers gap on blacks. That gap will widen even more in the coming years due to their higher birth rate and the continued flood of new immigrants, both legal and illegal, from south of the border.

That won't do much to quiet the complaints of many blacks. And those grumbles have risen to a near-shrill pitch during the immigration debate. The polls that show blacks as generally more favorable toward illegal immigrants than whites are wildly at odds with the sentiments many blacks privately express on immigration. Legions of black callers flood black talk radio stations and websites with rants against illegal immigrants. The attacks, for the most part, are a thinly disguised bash of Latinos."...
http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/36197/
"The fear and resentment of some blacks against Latinos for muscling them out of the ethnic spotlight won't go away. But neither will the reality that Latinos are drastically changing America's ethnic face. And that's not a bad thing."

You have been helpful to this op, in reference to providing information rather than accusations.

It is appreciated.

unintended consequences, like maybe black organizations aligning themselves with groups like The Minutemen. That would be catastrophic, and quite possibly, even deadly.

hillary..I hope with good reason.

explain the DU responses in reference to what Nevada Hispanics would do. Initially I barely thought about it, and instead accepted it for what it was.....but

I was thinking about it more this morning....and attempting to try and figure ...."well, what I wrote in my op".

effective progressive alliances among groups with strong overlapping interests. The combination of repression and manipulation in the real America is what has made sure that no socialist movement of any size like in most of the rest of the world has arisen here in the US.

To build a major progressive/socialist movement (yes, I'm a socialist, no need to start flaming about it) in the US will REQUIRE that these mostly underground dynamics get dredged up and challenged. When people notice 'dog whistles' in remarks like the MLK/LBJ "peculiar" (NY TIMES DESCRIPTION) remark, that only touches the tip of the iceberg. What are the dynamics that armtwist politicians and others in this direction? How is it that for the second national presidential campaign, serious antiwar politics is kept at the margins?