Skeptical of some racist accusations @ Clintons, THIS quote DOES have racist tones.

In the words of that Clinton adviser: "If you have a social need, you're with Hillary. If you want Obama to be your imaginary hip black friend and you're young and you have no social needs, then he's cool."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2238148,00.html

-----

Amid desperate attacks and lack of coordination in their message, and as I predicted, the Clinton campaign will self-destruct with Rubber Mouth Syndrome; also known as Foot-In-Mouth syndrome.

For ease in spotting and searching these stories, please begin labeling headlines about such Clinton campaign quotes as RMS/FIM - or written out if you prefer.

Let's all agree on the right way discuss this man and the illusions about him. Then we can pass the accepted language out and everyone will be comfortable.

If the offender had said "hip imaginary friend" would that have made everybody happy?

Because I'd like to know if anyone would consider this man a candidate if he were NOT black.

America, or a Latino America..not a Liberal AMerica or a Conservative America..there is a United States of America!!" :patriot: :patriot:

Obama does radiate hope.

As an African American who's consciously stayed away from these threads, that one was beyond the pale. Yes, "hip imaginary friend" would have been quite sufficient. Would someone have used "hip imaginary white friend?" Of course not.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4039927&mesg_id=4039927

I think we're going to try to get the focus back.

Oh, I donno... I've often used the description "hip friend", and my "hip friends" are any race at all. Well, really, I haven't used the word "hip" in a while because it's kind of out right now. I try to stay 'in the groove'.
I hope my words are not viewed as racist. I guess if a person is looking for it you can find racism in almost anything. Is it out there? You bet. But every word that came from one of the races and is now used by blacks, reds, yellows, whites, mixed (all) 'colors', is not meant to be racist.

Now using the word BITCH to describe a woman is sexist, and derogatory.

Please expire.

He has no experience. If a woman were to try to run for President of the US with no experience, she would be laughed off the podium.

He is in this race with his lack of experience, because he is a black male.

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Storm Front? KKK? You actually read that in that message?

This election is going to tear Democrats apart. And Rove is going to laugh his piggy ass all the way into the next administration.

those guys at all.

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Biden, Dodd and Richardson have way more experience than her.

Excellent!

Please expire.

I mean, it is not so bad that you guys are making these statements -- everyone misspeaks from time to time, but to have the audacity to attempt to defend them with even worse statements is reprehensible.

first rule of holes, when you find yourself in one, stop digging.

perhaps this will help open your eyes: if I said:

He is in this race with his lack of experience, because he is a Jew.

would you consider that a racist statement?

open your eyes, you're doing your own candidate no good with flashing the race card around.

I am putting someone on ignore. I don't know what you are doing here. My blood pressure can't stand another one of your posts.

There, is that so hard?

Christ on a trailer hitch.

Hekate

seriously.

is this the best Hillary supporters can come up with? racial undertones?

"I'd like to know if anyone would consider this man a candidate if he were NOT black."

But why are you asking such a racist question?



My question to myself:

"I'd like to know if anyone would consider Hillary Clinton a candidate if she were NOT a woman."

My Answer to Myself: Yes, but why am I asking such a sexist question?


My other question to myself:

"I'd like to know if anyone would consider Hillary Clinton a candidate if she were NOT Bill Clinton's wife."

My Answer to Myself: Still, Yes, but why am I asking such a sexist question?

People paid attention to Ross Perot and Ralph Nader. People paid attention to JFK.

Obama isn't YOUNG!!!!!!!!!!!! He's my age. And I'm about to be a grandmother. So, calling him hip and cool is insulting.... it's also an interesting way to turn things around so that you can't point out that the Clintons are GETTING OLD!!!

The staffers of all the candidates have been in overdrive for the past week.

Hillary, Barak, and John should ALL give their troops a stern lecture on the importance of good manners. I don't think they wanted this at all.

The GOP slime machine is bad enough; we don't need to coltivate one of our own.

--p!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4039927&mesg_id=4039927

We all know how we feel about this comment, but perhaps it's best not to dwell at this time?

As awful as this sounds, I saw several reactions in other press today warning against making too much of unnamed "advisors".

Makes it impossible to verify. And it sounds like something that was said to one reporter, who then decided to send it 'round the world (which would really make it the reporter doing the spreading).

IMHO.

...these sentiments, which is something important to remember when evaluating their credibility.

Suburban voters will think Hillary will do a better job of protecting their homes and retirements. These people are old enough to remember the last Clinton administration which furthers builds a safe choice security factor. :tinfiolhat" bama is risky in many ways besides being blantantly unelectable and divisive.

Calling Obama "hip" is an obvious reference trying to tie him to hip-hop, thus making him less appealing to the white electorate. If that's not racist, I don't know what is. If white people on here don't see that as racist, then you're really clueless about race in this country.

Nothing existed before teh Kidz were born - it's kind of funny if you think about it - Hip didn't exist before hip-hop- I'm laughing pretty hard here!

we need a fricken verbiage manual in order to say anything these days....

HIP;

Main Entry: hip
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: fashionable, stylish
Synonyms: all the rage*, chic, chichi*, contemporary, cool*, current, faddy*, hot*, in style, in-thing*, in vogue, latest*, latest thing*, mod*, modern, modish*, natty*, new, now, popular, smart, sophisticated, trendsetting, trendy, with it*
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1)



I guess Obama supporters don't want Obama to be defined as "hip". Too bad, seems like a 'cool' word to me....

The word 'hip' has been around since 1904, and hip-hop music was first recorded in 1982.

"Hip" has been around for generations.

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhip.html

that wants a "hip imaginary black friend" then it`s all right...? jesus what year do they live in?

sorry i don`t see the hip-hip angle because hip-hop is world wide and includes all colors ...but the the idea behind statement is so fucking racist....do they think they are fucking so smart that we can`t see it? i`m really disgusted that this shit is being dredged up by someone who says she`s a friend of the blacks,no not just blacks,but to those who try to put racism behind them....she has no soul

Maybe it's just a generational misunderstanding.

When I was growing up, it was commonly recognized in the black community that white liberals wanted to to have a token black friend who they could show off to their other (real) white friends. In fact, the rest of the line went, "I wouldn't want my sister to marry him but..." It wasn't a dig at black Americans, but at the hypocrisy of whites.

Isn't the idea that young people may respond to Obama as an imaginary hip black friend just an extention of the original prejudice?

Personally, I think many of our young people are over the prejudices we knew back in the '60s. But I'm not willing to say they no longer exist.

we lived in the same neighborhood and our families went back years in the town we lived in. i have tried to live my life by the example my dad and mom set. i never heard them say a negative thing about anyone of another race nor economic situation. i`m not going to say i`m a saint but at least i`m no sinner.

Isn't the idea that young people may respond to Obama as an imaginary hip black friend just an extention of the original prejudice? yes it is...i think it was the hip-hip hop thing.. the "kids" in the hip hop nation are the young kids you are talking about in the last sentence..i think most of them get it...it does`t matter what color you are it`s all about the who you are...

tells me Elvis, now he was hip! See, it's only racist in the mind of the reciever.

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Another right wing talking point.

The republican's plan is working. Pit different segments of the Democratic party against each other, plant accusations of racism (on both sides) stir in a few aggitators and sit back and watch your work with pride.

The republican plan is to get hillary the nom so they can energize their own voters, becasue that is the only thing that will work and you hillbots are falling for it.
It's people like Hillary that make me ashamed to be an american and if she wins the Nom, I will be boycotting the election because it is a sham to preserve corporate power and to extend the war in Iraq, which will then become Hillary's War the way Vietnam became Nixon's War.

So if you want endless war, endless outsourcing and lobbyist control of our government then hillary truly is your girl.

lame expression of their guilt over the racism that makes up so much of American history and white culture. To "prove" (to others? to themselves?) they are not racists at all they gravitate toward Blacks that pass their standards of acceptability. Would they vote for Sharpton? Need I ask? He's too "devisive"; he will remind white America that there is still bigotry. Obama is the "uniter" who will allow them all to believe they aren't part of the problem.

and you think calling him hip is racist? I work in the music industry...you don't have a fucking clue about HIP..HIP-HOP...Hip means "COOL"...it is considered a compliment white or black...you are clueless and obviously a RACIST yourself!

If you wanted to point one out, you'd say, "That hard thing on the ground."

when it comes to their own expressions of racism.

I've criticized Obama several times, all without ever ONCE making it about race. As I've criticized Hillary without ONCE making it about gender.

Frankly, I'm not sure what the hell's wrong with these people, but they really need to shut the fuck up.

"Obama's a lazy, jive talkin', do nothing Senator, with nothing but shuck and jive that wants to sell crack to your kids"

on edit: "...oh, and he may have Islamic extremist tendencies!"

I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't part of Obama's campaign plan to make the Clintons look like racists. Maybe he's better at hardball "rough and tumble" politics than I've given him credit for.

Or rather, it WOULD be awful, if they'd said that.

Now I'm not calling you one... but some people can be.

the young white college kids backing obama. i hope every young person that intends to vote reads this to see what the clinton`s think of their ability to make their own judgments. another asshole remark is that obama has no concern about the social needs of young people.

they did`t learn their lesson from iowa... did`t they realize that school across the country is back in session.

I'm an Edwards supporter, but I don't hold Clinton responsible for some stupid remark an unnamed "adviser" quoted in one paper. For all I know, this was some random volunteer the Guardian reporter met in a bar. :shrug:

Many DUers frequently cite that particular newspaper as a legitimate source.

American. Therefor when playing with such things as the totally subjective nuances of phrases, how the writer uses and translates in their mind is important. I would like to see that quote in an American paper or hear it. Perhaps it is accurate, perhaps not.

Once again my point is that it is rather stupid to try and use foreign sources to discuss nuances in the American language.

The writer was allegedly quoting a Clinton advisor. The issue isn't about what the writer said/didn't say about the quote, but what the quote was. It's not like the quote was "translated" into American English. Presumably, it was made in American English.

Thus, your point is moot.

my poijnt that I obviously muddled to hell and gone was that a Brit may 'hear' something in Brit and not in American. In otherwords the brain translates automatically and sometimes the translation leads to bad results. Now in this instance with that uncommon of a phrase the odds are pretty damned slim that it is incorrect, but the concerns remain valid.

Ads to the phrase itself I really and truly cannot stretch that into a negative racist reference, negative towards some psychologically deprived supporter maybe, but certainly not negative towards Obama or any black. Who at a young stage wouldn't want to be associated with a youg, hip anybody?

I really think a large Brit teapot has gotten the hell stirred out of it before the tea got in.

YOU ARE A DESTROYER OF DEMOCRATS AND DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND. STOP!

STOP!

STOP!

YOUR EVIL WAYS

or Chelsea? How about Socks? Or Buddy? Or even someone with an actual name? No? This eating our young has got to stop. It's beyond absurd and you can look for racism, sexism, ageism and every other kind of "ism" out there is you quote everything said by every supporter of every candidate. All it takes is the press wanting to make a story and reporting that particular UNNAMED person. Geesh. :tinfoilhat:

like crying wolf. After a while it is trivialized and no one
believes you when a real racist event occurs.

No thinking white person is going to believe the Clinton's harbor
great racial thoughts against blacks.

Out in the hinterlands where votes are needed they are going to
think you are nuts.

People truly interested in racial healing do not conjure up excuses
to accuse others of racism.

You can accuse the Clinton's of many things but being racist is
not one of them.

Check out how he feels about the powers trying to divide us:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmUUYo9o9eg&feature=PlayList&p=B03F10C0072F4762&index=3

That door swings both ways.

the implied rules that they have to tiptoe around the issue of Obama's race. It will make people uncomfortable, and if they're uncomfortable with a candidate they tend not to vote for that candidate.

Who talk a big game on race but, when it comes down to it, don't associate w/black people.

Just my take.

ObamaNation's swiftboating of Clinton is well underway.

That poster is in my kill-file.

It's a hint of things to come once if Hillary gets in the WH. Watch for the Return of Jim Crow.

Oh my God! That is one sick statement.

But under a hillary regime, things will continue to go down the toilet and the first ones to get flushed are always black people.She will do NOTHING to help the american people against corporations. She'll just continue to shovel our tax dollars into corporate coffers and shovel more of our men and women into the meatgrinder known as Iraq. And because of her deep friendship and affinity with AIPAC, we'll be bombing Iran as well to make them happy. She'll continue to give out welfare to the wealthiest 1% and continue to let our country's infrastructure disintegrate. New Orleans? Forget about it. She'll let the people down there rot before she would say an unkind word about the robber barons using the disaster to line their pockets. Habeas Corpus? It's gone and she won't ever bring it back. She'll hold onto all of the unconstutional powers that bush has stolen and use them for her own nefarious purposes.
All in all, she'll just be our own version of Maggie Thatcher, but worse.

I still say what you posted before was sick and still is sick. No body knows what Hillary, Obama or Edwards will do once one of them takes the White House. I'm just flat out sick of the Bull Shit.

A couple years back, a word from a white woman like Hillary could mean certain death by lynching for a black man like Obama. Her statements and those of Bill and her supporters proves she is a racist through and through and your indignant objections won't change that fact one iota. She's already trying to suppress the vote in Nevada via the mostly white Teachers Union because the mostly black and hispanic Culinary Workers Union is endorsing Obama. If that doesn't smnack of Jim Crow to you, then you must agree with the tactic.

are for Obama, doesn't mean that latinos will vote for Obama. And you saying that Hillary would bring Jim Crow back to the White House is sick. So don't get this Mexican/African American pissed.

go ahead and engage in your fantasy that hillary will make everything all better and shiny. This country is headed for a new Gilded Age and your girl is very happy with that.
The only way she'll give a shit about you or me is if we came to her with a gigantic check or bag of money. Her only loyalty is to AIPAC and the coporate robber barons. Her only question is how can she outsource your job to India or China.
If you don't like the truth , then tough shit. As far as getting you pissed, I don't care. My job is to piss off corporate warmonger supporters.
Edwards is our last hope for this country.

Like I have said before and will keep on saying, any of the top 3 Democrats will do a fine job as President, but none of us know what the hell they will really will do once there. So get off your high horse and stop trying to start fights with others. Also I was an Edwards then a Obama supporter before I went to Hillary's side. And the only reason I will vote for Hillary is because of people like you.

If she wins the nom, I just won't vote, period. Her "associates" are as corrupt as they come and I won't be a part of allowing them to further ruin my country.
If you don't think you can predict what they would do, then you're wrong. There's an old saying "You dance with the one that brung you". Who brought Hillary? Look at her donor list. Big Pharma, Big Insurance, Defense Contractors, AIPAC, etc. Do you really think she will do one thing that they don't want her to do? She is bought and paid for and godammit, they will want their money's worth. She learned her lesson during the Hillary Care debacle. She stuck her neck out one time and they chopped it off. I doubt she'll EVER cross those guys again. But hey, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em right? Do you really think she'll piss off AIPAC by getting out of Iraq or not invading Iran? I don't. Do you think that she'll alienate her good buddy Rupert Murdoch by breaking up the media monopolies? In your dreams! Do you think she'll do ANYTHING to stop the rape of our economy done by her campaign donors Tata Consulting and her former employers Walmart?
Are you willing to take her word on faith that she'll fix anything in this country against the wishes of her paymasters?
Or will it be a case of "nobody could have foreseen that she would start bombing Iran or refuse to reinstate habeas corpus or expanded outsourcing"?
I don't have any confidence in her, I think she is the wrong woman for the job, I think she is a warmonger and a limousine liberal and I refuse to be intimidated into being silent about it.
I hope you enjoy our new Gilded Age.

That is your right to feel that. But the less votes she gets if she ends up being the nominee because of people like you willing to not vote for her, the more of a chance a Repuke will have to get in. But again that is your right.

Hate makes people very blinded.

Why do you hate Democrats who are not afraid to act like Democrats?

I'm not the one that is going around here saying that if Hillary wins I will not vote for her. I will vote for whom ever gets the Democratic Nomination. That is a true Democratic. I will stick with my party. Thank You very much. How about you?

Shameful.

The one that should be shameful is you for saying that if Hillary won she would bring back "Jim Crow back to the White House".

if the Democrats want to be included in that, then they are welcome to be. In fact I will vote for the DEMOCRATIC candidate who most embodies DEMOCRATIC principles.
If you lose because you've alienated the left (who by the way were right about everything Hillary was wrong about) you still lose - that's the bottom line.

Do you want to lose?
Again, because you are too afraid to vote for somebody that's for ALL Democrats?
Because you'd rather bully people into line threatening to smear them as the "reason" a person unpopular within her own party went on to lose the general election.

Those people who are so willing to vote for Hillary over the strenuous objections of their fellow Democrats, are virtually willing the party to lose. They are trying to force an unpopular candidate down the throats of the Democratic party and the nation as a whole.
Look at the Hypocrisy; Hillary fans will excuse Hillary's IWR vote and her war funding votes, but they won't excuse either Obama or Edwards' votes.
Basically Hillaryites are cutting off the Democratic nose to spite their face.

You see it as a case of the liberal-left voters taking their ball and going home. I see it as a case of the liberal-left refusing to play with ball-hogs.

I will vote for whom ever gets the Democratic Nomination. That is a true Democratic. Also I don't care if that is Edwards, Obama or Hillary.

voting Democratic doesn't mean anything. It's an end without a purpose.

vote Democratic????? I have heard everything now! Know wonder the republicans will continue to kick our ass, they stay together at all cost in the end.

Michael Bloomberg was once a Democrat before he changed over to the Republican party. Was he a better politician previously when he was a Democrat? or was he the same politician making a political calculation to win?

In other words party affiliation is no substitute for policy, record or ideology.
Would you vote for Leiberman if he was the Democratic nominee? Would you vote for Zell Miller? for Diane Feinstein? Where exactly do you draw the line?

Luckily we in the Democratic party get a chance to choose our leaders. You can choose to select Republican lite for the Democratic leadership, but I'm under no obligation to support that.

So a Republican *might* win *if* Hillary gets the nomination and that causes more conservatives to vote, and fewer liberals to vote, but really if winning is your most important criteria for supporting a Democratic candidate (and it seems that it is for too many) - you should take that into consideration. You can't really have it both ways, belittling the left in the primaries, calling us "angry" and "naive," and then expecting them to come to your rescue in the general election. Either we matter to the Democratic party or we don't. I'm beginning to think that we don't - seeing as we get virtually no representation within it. I'm going to keep working to get that representation, but I'm not going to stick my neck out for someone who doesn't represent me.

If Hillary gets the nomination and I vote for her, what message does it send, except that the Democratic party can continue to take its constituents for granted and still count on their votes? Maybe... just maybe... the establishment will learn its lesson and PICK BETTER LEADERS! Don't blame me for it... blame yourself.

Good job on trying to make me think Hillary is not a Democratic.:applause: :sarcasm: I will vote for whom is the nominee. That is my right. So an other words don't come bitching to the rest of us if a Republican wins just because you and other Democrats couldn't or wouldn't vote Hillary just because you didn't like her or what ever. Plus it could be Edwards or Obama that wins and I would still vote for them, and you know why because they are Democrats. But it is you right not to vote anyway.

Like I said, whether she wins or loses it will be based on her merits - or lack thereof. So don't try to tell me that it was all the disloyal Democrats who caused her to lose. She will have been responsible for her own loss, and those Democrats who choose her can thank themselves for nominating a "centrist" like Hillary.

Hey, if you want to reward her for her mistakes that's up to you. I for don't understand how you can support the least popular Democratic candidate - amongst Democrats. Putting aside the fact that she has both the worst record (and the worst rhetoric) on the substantive issues (national security, national security and national security) she is also the least popular.

Seeing as we are voting (essentially) for the leader of the Democratic party, wouldn't it make sense to take into consideration the strong feelings of Democrats?

I guess it's win-win for the Hillarycrats. If Hillary wins her supporters can all tell us what a winner she is, while maintaining that it wouldn't have been better under any other Democrat (like they could know) and if she loses they can blame everyone else for her failure to see how great she is.

that there are people like me who will vote for Hillary because you don't know when to stop bitching and putting her down. I really don't care who gets the nomination. To me all 4 Dem's would do a Great Job as President. So you can sit out if you like and not vote for her if and thats a Big IF she gets the nomination. So again don't come crying to the rest of us if a repuke gets in because you and other sit at home holing your breath like a 2 yr. old if Hillary gets the nomination and you refuse to vote for her.

I'm not basing my vote on trying to show up or spite individuals who don't know when to stop "bitching" (isn't it rather sexist to use the word "bitching?")
How much more shallow can a political position be?
At least I've got some principles.

"(isn't it rather sexist to use the word "bitching?")"

The way I used it in my post was to mean:To express negative feelings, especially of dissatisfaction or resentment or whine or find fault with something or someone. Also complaining, bellyaching ect....

So again go ahead and sit out if Hillary wins. That is your right. But don't come and bitch to the rest of us if a repuke becomes President again.

and don't say I didn't warn you.

If Hillary gets the nom and loses - that's the bottom line - not whether I held my nose and voted for her or not.

So if Hillary gets the nom and loses - you knew what the stakes were going in. Capiche?

you have have read that I don't care which one gets the nom. But if Hillary gets it and loses I will not cry or bitch about it. And you now why???? Because I would have known that I had voted for a Democratic. Capiche!

I don't know her personally, but I'm getting a good view of her character from the company she keeps.
So no, it isn't hate. It's like the saying "Love the Sinner but hate the sin".
She has a whole lot of sin to answer for.

to vote for whom you want.

Too bad it won't count because our so called "democracy" is already dead.

My vote is for revolution. It's all we have left when our government fails us like it has for the past 50 years.

If she's that polarizing even to Democrats, then she is not an electable candidate. Both her and the Republicans are unacceptable, it's like having to choose between Charles Manson and Jeffrey Dahmer.
So I'll vote for neither and be satisfied that my position will be proven correct when she sells everybody down the river to the corporations and expands the war into Iran.

Besides, I'm in Texas. We are already thoroughly Diebolded and the Democratic Party here just arbitrarily decided to exclude Kucinich from the ballot. So effectively, I have no choice and no voice in who will represent me and my interests in government. I'm already disenfranchised. I have no confidence in our system anymore and refuse to participate in this big fucking sham.
I'll just sit here and wait for everything to fall apart like it most surely will.

Born and raised in San Antonio. So I do understand that you feel disenfranchised. But I will vote for Hillary in May here in Oregon just because of all the hate and put downs of her. But I don't care who ends up being our nominee. I will vote for that Democrat. Thank you very much.

To be fucking kidding me. No way are you for real.

Ignore. I tend to do that to operatives and morons.

Let's see - a damaging quote in a newspaper without attribution. Gotcha.

It seems the Clintons are calling Obama "uppity" for trying to take something that she thinks is rightfully hers, and it's not.

why bother

People are accusing Hillary Clinton, of ALL people, of racism.

I think these are not Democrats making these accusations.

I have been saying this for weeks...and they are all over this board. very shameful.

than addressing it.

Every thing with Hillary is a distraction.

If you want Clinton to be your imaginary Hippy Chick friend and you're young and you have no social needs, then she's cool."

I was not surprised that the Clinton camp would resort to such tactics. They worked very well for Jesse Helms!

We're starting to looking like the Democratic Party circa 1865.

Can you post it here please.

They just can't keep their true feelings from coming out eh?

The person has a point.

He or she is merely pointing out a fact about the subconscious guilt Americans have over a national history of racism. Not all Obama supporters fall into this, but some do.

Which substantially changes the meaning of your subject line.