Et Tu, Michigan? What a shame.

Florida and Michigan are continuing to blame others for what they did. They say they did it to force primary change. That is not how you do it, not when you set it up for one candidate's advantage.

Here are three of Hillary Clinton's supporters, state leaders in Michigan, irate at the people who want a chance for their vote to count. An ex-governor says the people blame Howard Dean. They probably do, even though Democrats in the state helped push it through, just like Florida. Why? Because the Democrats in those two states have not been honest.

This article made me angry.

Clinton backers argue against 'uncommitted'

Just a quote or two from the article.



Florida Democratic leaders only this week were reinforcing their innocent image, saying they were happy how they handled things...forgetting they hurt the people of the party who were never told the truth about the 115 to 1 vote.

Senator Melson glad he sued DNC...Chair Thurman feels really really good



Karen, the primary schedule was set. You don't change horses in the middle....oh never mind.

Bill, you got your momentum but you did not care that things like this were happening all over the state.



The leaders of both states need to have the courage to stand up and say that they misused their positions to launch a power play. It would go a long way toward healing the rifts.

Florida won't, and I doubt the Michigan leaders would ever admit it was their fault, that they broke the rules. That's too bad.

"They voluntarily took their names off the ballot," Stabenow said. "I understand everyone is trying to find the best strategy, the best way to win the nomination. The other candidates are trying once again to minimize the primary, and Senator Clinton chose not to snub Michigan."

Notice how easily the blame was shifted.

but feel awful for those that support Edwards or Obama. I can't believe these people screwed us over like this. What a way to turn off the voters.

Ok, okay then. You choose the candidates and tell people to accept them -- that how this works now?

Then they used the media to blame Dean and the DNC...they even had the Florida bloggers on board with them. It worked very well.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com:80/madfloridian/1617

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

I thought it was in the other post but it wasn't.

"call a bluff" and Dean didn't blink, "Your delegates will not be seated"

Hillary, O'Bama blew their wad of cash in NH and Iowa, Mich. would get little time anyway. The National RNC knew sending no delegates to their national conventions would jeopardize their parties standing in November. So they cut their delegates in half. But, did not bar them . And Florida Republicans are more than happy to live with that. Sometimes, you have to rock the boat to make change. Dean can't see following a total ban only hurts the National Democratic party, that only shows his lack of foresight. Many of us are sick of NH and Iowa thinking they automatically get undue influence.

Yes. They just pluck it off of some money tree.

Florida and Michigan was part of the process which decided the primary calendar, and which sanctions would be used for those who disregarded it. At this time, they did not protest, nor argue against, what became the final decision. They did not apply to become one of the front-runner states.

And then they turn around and, with the help of the Republicans, decide to upset the apple cart, and then get angry when they can't sell their apples? All 50 state parties agreed that those who did not follow the primary plan would not get their delegates seated, but Dr. Dean is to blame because he follows the decision of the majority? This supposedly shows his lack of foresight? I think it instead shows the complete disrespect and arrogance of the leadership of the Florida and Michigan Democratic parties. And I'm sure the other 48 states (or 42, if you choose not to count those who are front runners) are pretty happy that Dr. Dean won't allow Florida and Michigan to break the rules, and get away with it, even after draining the DNC coffers with unfounded law suits etc.

http://www.lasvegasgleaner.com/las_vegas_gleaner/2008/01/caucuses-suck-n.html

I was wondering if you thought this is something the DNC would have to step into? Or if you've heard anything. I believe Dean has done a whole lot of work in this state. It's a shame if it falls apart so close to the day.

But I have no doubt there will be behind the scene calls if needed.

Seems like the real deep change in the party is going to happen. Not left, right, but inside, outside DC.

I have only kept up with FL, and a little about MI...but I imagine there is a lot of stuff going on.

Democrats are ignoring Michigan. WHile Mitt Romney in Grand Rapids says, he won't sleep until Michigan is healthy from our 'one state recession.' (one state, right!>) Michigan often polls say can be closer come November, than we'd all like. Dean's punishment of Michigan just could possbily Make Michigan red come November.

So let's be honest there. MI and FL were warned if they broke the rules, they would be penalized. The DNC tried to work with them for months.

They thumbed their noses at the DNC and Dean because they thought their candidate would benefit.

I am not sure of the reason Dennis could not get off the ballot, but he tried. If he is campaigning there, he is breaking party rules. You are excusing that. That is wrong.

And will be counterproductive to Democratic interests come November. . Plus, the REpublicans are presently propogandizing Michigan. His Michigan tour has had huge turn outs. A fair amount of Michigan and Florida Democrats were told they would be punished and said , we don't care. Who says all Democrats are squeeling. The DNC wants to harm themselves, that is there choice. As to Kucinich. Realizing how foolish this is. We should all thank him.
*****

Mike Whitty, a Birmingham resident and Kucinich volunteer, said the campaign changed its mind about campaigning in Michigan because of its ability to seize on the lack of activity.

"I think it's fair to say he's reversed field on his initial decision," he said. "Since his name remained on the ballot, they've looked at Michigan as an opportunity to fill a vacuum."

As of now, events are planned for Jan. 10, 11 and 14, with the possibility of events Jan. 12 and 13, Whitty said.

Messages left with national spokespeople for the Kucinich campaign were not returned.

Gravel, who has made a handful of Michigan stops already, told the Free Press he would be back Jan. 13, 14 and 15. A schedule isn't final, but Gravel said he expected to appear in Dearborn, Detroit and possibly Lansing.

"I think the Democratic Party made a terrible mistake," he said, referring to the punishment of Michigan for moving up its primary. "Michigan has not disrupted anybody."

http://www.livingstondaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200880103003

What MI and FL did was on purpose, planned, to disrupt and give advantage to a candidate. That is called dirty politics.

Unrepresentative states. It has been a policy of National Committeewoman Dingell for years. Many MI Democrats had had enough. Kucinich is there to speak to the issues of an industrial state that would have been neglected until Feb 5. Nafta in particular. Its the message not the candidate that is his issue. Why should he not, considering the Democratic party has been complicit with his lousy treatment way before the primary season. To not take the Nafta issue by progressives to a state so screwed like has been Michigan is far more important that intra-party squables. The Democratic party has not been the cause of the lousy treatment of Kucinich by the media, but certainly way too tolerant. Even the Republicans have demanded better treatment that has the Democratic party, when they see their candidates being shafted by the press.

for political gain. It was to give one candidate an advantage.

MI Democrats are loving his Nafta talk. SOmeone has to keep the progressive banner afloat. I expect Dem voters who did not follow the story all along, will feel resentful come election day. Still, DK unlikely will get more than 3% of the Mi Dem primary vote. He is not hurting anyone. Just rallying the Troops and speaking to progressive issues.

"That pledge should never have been construed (to stop) us from freely associating with anyone in Michigan," he told reporters after the speech. "I don't think the party had any right to nullify Michigan's standing."

http://blog.mlive.com/chronicle/2008/01/kucinich_kicks_off_campaign_sw.html

So maybe nothing will come of it and the caucus can proceed as planned. This is another situation where a year has gone by with everyone accepting the rules agreement and all of a sudden the bomb drops.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/12/post_271.html

"The state party quickly dismissed the lawsuit. Going back to last spring, every presidential campaign was involved in setting up the unusual casino caucus sites while state party officials and the Democratic National Committee ironed out the details. "This is a fair, legal and proper way to choose delegates under established law and legal precedent that has been reviewed by attorneys....The time for comment or complaint has passed," the party said in a statement."

This is fucking sabotage. Thanks, Tammy.

Very strange. :eyes: Damn them trying to make it possible for people who work at casinos to caucus!

And lawsuits coming out the you know what. Two Florida lawsuits in favor of the DNC...against the state dismissed. A little weird.

And you know my favorite saying lately:

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1638

But Dean is being sued by everyone and his brother. :tinfoilhat:

It is not about the people anymore. It is about power and who has it.

But I am in solidarity with my fellow cooks. It almost becomes a classist diss. The teachers, recognized middle class (although they don't make THAT much more)who get saturdays off are denying these other union members, workers at shift positions a chance to vote. I've joked for years to my fellow restaurant workers that we are considered to be a social step above 'carnies'. We're just cleaner and slightly better looking as far as middle america goes. These teachers are not just denying 'immigrants' the right to vote, they are denying their own students, the cooks that graduated from the local HS and Cooking schools, the waitstaff who are currently students at local colleges who can't even take off a day when sick, fugittabout voting, and various other staff who could otherwise not participate. Their neighbors, their students...or the parents of students. And it cuts along class lines, with a prejudice that because we have service jobs that we are somehow dumber or less informed, on edit: or certainly more manipulable. Some of the smartest people I ever met were fellow employees. Many had advanced degrees. English, history, etc. To write us off is folly. Another thing that bugs me is that if you have ever been to Nevada you would realize that many of these casinos are central to a small sprawl of restaurants, hotels and other services with all their myriad employees. It's not just the casino people, it's the hub for the workers of the area.

This is really bothering me. How dare anybody manipulate a campaign that means so much for whatever perceived gain.

about people being mad at Howard Dean. I haven't heard anything like that. Most people are mad at the State Democratic and Republican leadership for being greedy. Yeah, we're pissed about our votes being irrelevant, but nobody I know is blaming anybody but the state leadership.

Have I talked to everyone in the state? of course not. But just about everybody I know is politically engaged....blaming Howard Dean? Bullshit.

:shrug:

We had bloggers who could have spoken out. We have a good blogger network here. But they did not. Later on a few did mention casually that it might not have been all Dean's fault.

That is misleading journalism.

an editorial from todays Jackson Citizen Patriot.
***
Democrats can sulk that they won't have a true choice in Tuesday's presidential primary. After Hillary Clinton, the Democratic ballot falls off dramatically to lower-tier hopefuls.

It's not the ideal, but Michigan moved up this vote for a good reason -- to challenge Iowa and New Hampshire.

Democrats should underscore that decision by casting ballots. And depending on what happens, those votes may matter more than they realize.

**
Democratic primary still worth voting
by Jackson Citizen Patriot
Sunday January 13, 2008, 6:24 AM
The following is the Jackson Citizen Patriot's editorial for January 13:

Democrats can sulk that they won't have a true choice in Tuesday's presidential primary. After Hillary Clinton, the Democratic ballot falls off dramatically to lower-tier hopefuls.

It's not the ideal, but Michigan moved up this vote for a good reason -- to challenge Iowa and New Hampshire.

Democrats should underscore that decision by casting ballots. And depending on what happens, those votes may matter more than they realize.

Barack Obama and John Edwards pulled out of Michigan because the national Democratic Party refused to bless this early balloting. Voters should know they can't choose either, and their ballot won't count if they write in either name.

If they don't want to support Clinton or the others on the ballot, they must vote "uncommitted."

The impact of this vote is limited, but here's how it matters: Clinton either will get a small bump from winning, continuing her momentum from the New Hampshire primary.

Or enough votes for "uncommitted" will spoil her night. What if she wins Michigan with only 60 percent of the vote? How will the pundits -- and more, important, donors to her and Obama's campaign -- react?

We all can hope this state's Democratic vote will be more meaningful in 2012. Still, that's no excuse to stay home Tuesday. If you're a Democrat, get out and vote Democratic.

-- Jackson Citizen Patriot

http://www.mlive.com/elections/index.ssf/2008/01/democratic_primary_still_worth_1.html

Almost every paper this last week had some ugly stuff about the DNC and Dean.

I think it is fast becoming irreparable damage to him in this state. That is very sad, since the Democrats here worked with the Republican.

This is second in ugliness only to Daniel Ruth's column.

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2008/jan/13/michael-goforth-deans-too-mean/

That is the gist of it. Now we don't get to choose the nominee because those like Nelson felt like our size would get media attention early on.

The Florida leaders decided that there were more important things than the voice of the people. They won't back down, they won't admit they were wrong.

There were two major victims...the people and the reputation of Howard Dean in Florida. There is no excuse for either.

Looks like Palm Beach County is expecting lowered turnout because of the actions of the party leaders.

About the Florida primary fiasco...more on the topic.



I am a victim of their decision. I don't get to choose.

The wife and I are going to vote uncommitted. Keep up the good work Mad. Still got the Dean sticker on my car and I think he did what he had to do. The tail can't wag the dog.

The media here is so ugly toward Dean it is breaking my heart.

Daniel Ruth of the Tampa Tribune called him the pipsqueak of the Potomac. That was one of the nicer articles.

Our Dems here have lied and misled, and I am so furious.

Good to hear from you.

:hi:

Clinton, Obama, and Edwards are all major supporters of NAFTA, "free trade" with China, H1B visas, deregulation, etc. etc.

Do you think John Edwards has the courage to come to Michigan and support his vote for "free trade" with China. :eyes:

Do you think Hillary Clinton can look unemployed Michigan voters in the eye and explain her H1B policy? :rofl:

The DNC has been ignoring Michigan since the Clinton presidency, so this current flap is just the latest excuse for business as usual--that is, selling out American workers in favor of big business.

Just say no to the status quo: Hillary and her triangulating wind sock politics.

Florida and Michigan wanted to force Primary Change - They did. they have eliminated themselves (two important states) from the Primary process. Congratulations.

I agree and hopefully anyone that pretends to think sees, that the the entire Primary systems MUST change. This was simply NOT the way to do it.

I live in Illinois and it pisses me off that Iowa and NH and a couple of others will dictate to me my choices of Candidates. IA and NH DO NOT represent a cross section of this Country and never have. Super Tuesday will tell us more.

Additionally I think the DNC and RNC prefer this process because they can control the smaller population sample. It stinks.

I don't pretend to have an answer to this problem - but I recgonize it as a huge problem.

Have you not been paying attention? The election is wide open and will undoubtedly remain so well past our primary on Feb 5th.

New Hampshire and Iowa determined nothing, and you are still complaining?

based on 2 almost meaningless states Dodd, Biden and Richardson dropped out. And, DLC stooges like Lawrence O'Donnell are attempting to 'shame' Edwards into dropping out.

The primary process is screwed up and needs to changed