Kucinich doesnt bring anything to the debate

He uses questions to provide stump speeches and will never rise about 3%.

He has no campaign nor money.

He has no plans, just broad, sweeping ideological windmills.

Kucinich is in this to the end for Kucinich, and the people of Ohio suffer for his messiah complex.

He'll give another god awful speech at the convention and he'll come in "2nd" again because his supporters are prone to worship, not support.

Kucinich needs to be excised, like a cancer, because he is about HIM not the country.


He voted against SCHIP and an end to the war NOT because they didnt go far enough, but because they would steal his issues.


I loathe the man.


M

Assuming facts not in evidence.

I think he stabs himself in the foot as often as not, but I think he's on the right page with many issues. It's just too bad he's such a terrible campaigner.

:shrug:

Of course you have.

You're just lying and cherry picking.

Dennis scares the fucking shit out of you. That's why corporate suits don't want him in the debates.

Terrified.


He hasn't passed 1 bill he's written.


Next?

Your just terrified that this guy is allowed to air the bills he co sponsored or written. That way the other Dems have no way of explaining why they constantly cave to their corporate masters on these issues.

John Edwards for his time in the senate was one of the most pro corporate senators. Lets not allow the American people to decide what a fraud that guy really is.

Lets also ignore the fact that until Hillary ran she was a fucking PRO WAR Senator as well.

Or that Obama is a big supporter of these so called "free trade" agreements as was all the other people that running.

NO NO NO NO NO NO.

Just keep trying to fool the American people and stump those that are really trying to change this party for the better.

This is a Democracy.

Kucinich doesnt get his way, so he stamps his little foot and runs for President.

I am an unapologetic Hillary Clinton supporter because she is a profoundly effective (and lately affective) Senator from NY.

NY, if you werent aware, is 60% liberal democrat, and 40% moderate republican. She enjoys a super majority of support because she fights for issues for upstate AND downstate.

In the House and Senate, bills ought not be passed on party lines and should have broad support.

Perhaps Kucinich could get some bills passed if he decided that he didn't hear instructions from a higher power and instead realized that perhaps OTHER people have opinions too.

Thats how politics is done. Kucinich wants to be King Dennis. He doesnt want a House or Senate, let alone a Supreme Court. He wants to establish his utopian order of fairy princes and universal peace.

Those who do not agree are WRONG and need to be reeducated.

He needs to either change, become flexible, or be stopped.

There are some things you don't compromise on.

Hillary as well as the "Lets work together" senators DON"T GET THAT. It's a weasal act so they never EVER have to take a hard stand on an issue and fight for it.

I grew up in NY. I am not here to offer an anecdote although I am willing to accept the fact that what follws just may be an anecdote. Hillary won two elections against Republican challengers that were EXTREMELY fucking weak candidates. They make Walter Monddale, Bob Dole and John Kerry look like fucking FDR.

But I suppose you find a Democratic party that was given the go ahead to end this fucking war by the American people A OK as long as they listen to the Republicans on that issue.

I grew up in NY in a time when Grumman was downsized and not one Dem candidate that ran on Long Island ever stuck up for the working folk that were tossed into poverty because of it. I saw Long Island fall into Republican hands as a result and primarily due to candidates like Hillary Clinton.

Those folks don't want wishy washy Clintons, Obamas and Frauds like Edwards. If they don't get a real candidate that is unwilling to actually show some balls on an issue they will either vote Republican to burn you down or just stay the fuck home.

Shes on the record then, no?

She was a Goldwater Republican back then.

Those were the beginning of the hardliners we have to today. She was the president of their movement in her college.

Well, there goes any credibility your argument might have had. :eyes:

Too funny.

All that was proven in this thread is that sychophants follow their chosen Demgogues and attack others they perceive as threats to said demagogue.

but she is in reality still carrying water for Entergy, just as she did for them in Arkansas when worked at the Rose Law firm.

Agree:

He uses questions to provide stump speeches and will never rise about 3%.

He has no campaign nor money.

He has no plans, just broad, sweeping ideological windmills.

Kucinich is in this to the end for Kucinich

Disagree:

the people of Ohio suffer for his messiah complex.

He'll give another god awful speech at the convention and he'll come in "2nd" again because his supporters are prone to worship, not support.

Kucinich needs to be excised, like a cancer, because he is about HIM not the country.


He voted against SCHIP and an end to the war NOT because they didnt go far enough, but because they would steal his issues.


I loathe the man.

Okay, so I agree. He's a grandstander and a panderer who has found an ideological niche of supporters and does little but stroke them. However, there are dozens and dozens of Congressmen for whom that could apply. And realistically, most every candidate is in it mostly for themselves. DK isn't especially great (and he is indeed overhyped here), but he certainly isn't especially awful, either. So why bother loathing him? Why claim he needs to be removed? He's voted the wrong way a few times, sure--but not any more than the blue dogs. I want their votes and voices in this party, and I want DK's vote and voice in this party.

That's what Dennis brings to the table!

I want to hear that debated. I want to know why none of our top three candidates think this is a better idea than theirs, and why they prefer to keep for-profit insurance companies involved.

You know, to send a message to the party of support for DK's ideas. However, DK's support has been so low that my message could be safely ignored. As such, I decided to support the member of the Big Three I felt would be the best candidate and President.

:kick:

and anyone who knows anything about dennis will see that. so i am not gonna dignify this post except to say that you have issues if you are attacking the only candidate that actually wants to provide single payer health care, the only candidate who has brought forth legislation for the impeachment of dick cheney and eventually bush. you are attacking the only person who is pushing for transparency in government and elections. You have an agenda and it is an agenda that is further then just bashing DK. why are you here?

To undermine a Democratic election?

How very Kucinich.

because some people do not feel that the numbers are right. regardless if alot of the people come from one of the peoples camps who do not win kucinich is trying to make most of america feel that the elections, all aspects of it were fair and properly watched over. hell count every vote twice by hand if you have to, I wouldnt mind helping to pay for it. Do you have a problem if our election process comes under scrutiny? He already stated he doesnt expect a boost in his numbers so hes not doing it for selfish reasons. I guess he is doing it for selfless reasons, or as you might say

"hes doing a stunt, he tooting his own horn, hes playing games with our election, yadda, yadda, yadda."

or at least thats what i imagine you might say.

Free press.

I'm so blind, why didn't i see it. That sneaky coniving little elf of a man is trying to get free publicity under the guise of promoting election trancparency and confidance. How can I be so foolish. Please forgive my original assumptions, I should have know that with one article or the NH recount kucinich will be able to turn his campaign around. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I now hate dennis for demanding a recount. Leave the chads where they hang.

Because the results aren't close enough to warrant an automatic recount, Kucinich will have to pay for the recount out of his own pocket.

But, for the love of God, why the hell is he demanding a recount that will have no effect on the outcome and he is cash strapped as it is? He doesn't have a clue how to run a campaign, and yet some people want to put him in charge of the nation? Give me a break!

are having confidance in the candidate we elect. Their is cause for some scrutiny in the results especially since the optical scanners use have had alot of trouble (not as much as touch screen) but enough to raise suspesions. Why is it a big deal if kucinich wants a recount? I myself would be glad that someone is doing some double checking, especially if not all americans are 100% certain that their is nothing strange going on. Basically to answer your question he is demanding a recount because suspesions shared by him and a number of US citizens point that not all votes were counted correctly.

If each citizen is alloted one vote then each individual is important because that represents 1 citizens will in how they want that country run and i am glad that at least one person takes it as a huge responsability to make sure each and every ballot is lovingly handcounted and giving to the corrisponding candidate. Dont like it just look at the kenya election where both sides say their candidate one.

from the reported vote in the NH primary. One person here has tried to spin that as Kucinich "undermining" the election. Having a recount doesn't undermine squat and probably won't find any systematic fraud even if there WAS some.

But please DUers DO NOT FORGET how the management of DU dismissed the arguments about the election results as too frivolous to consider AND THEN Kucinich gave one of the key arguments (that I myself had been raising, as well as others), namely, that the HAND-COUNTED ballots went more for Obama while machine counted ballots for HRC. There are a number of other mysterious problems that are hard to explain other than by election fraud ....

Some people tried to palm this whole controversy, meriting at least a healthy skepticism if not belief in a "conspiracy theory" of the kind of election fraud we saw in Ohio (and saw the national media bury) in 04, as merely the challenging of the honesty of any election that Obama lost. This spurious argument was even reflected in a column by Josh Marshall at TPM.

This thread seems to be simply reflective of a vendetta against Kucinich for giving credibility to making a big stink about something otherwise easily dismissed as 'paranoia'.

like a tumor." Amazing. I see your profile says you live in New York. Did you move there from Ohio that you know Kucinich so intimately as an Ohio voter? :shrug:

But I know I wouldnt support Charlie Rangel if he kept ignoring his responsibilites to run for President when he cant win.

If Kucinich was serious about running, why no campaign office in Iowa? Why no campaigning in New Hampshire?

out of someone's home...but that supposedly didn't count. Just like NBC says that afer inviting him to the Dem Debate Jan. 15th they now are disinviting him even though he got 2% of the vote in NH qualifying him to be in the debate.

*Or, rather, he had at the moment of the IA debate in question. Undoubtedly Huck has raised more since.

financial records. I do know that he has done a fair bit of campaigning and on a shoestring budget as well. I can only guess but I would also say that he should have been included because what in the heck does it matter if he had a storefront or not? So a candidate has to contribute to the states economy (ie buy or rent things) in order to be in the primary?

Well, it keeps the riff-raff out. Seriously.

1. There are always dozens of declared candidates, and there would be hundreds if there was any certainty of media attention. A storefront office is a considerable financial investment for the narcissist down the street, but is cheap as free to a multimillion-dollar campaign.

2. It's evidence that the campaign has a strong infrastructure. You can run a campaign for State House or Mayor out of your basement. Running a statewide campaign, with tens of thousands of mailings per week, with constant allocation of resources and manpower to various rallies and GOTV operations, and with non-stop contact with organizational operatives across the state...that requires an office with multiple phone lines and many volunteers. If you don't have an office, it's evidence that you do not have the level of campaign infrastructure necessary to be competitive.

love how elections are run.

it does not cost that much to rent an office in the Quad cities and to hire a staffer. Kucinich has spent almost $2 million so far and has $300,000 cash on hand. An office and a staffer might have cost $50,000 for four months, and it would have paid for itself in publicity. Still, like the recent NBC debate in Nevada, the M$M might have just found some other way to exclude him.

simply that he had one, which he did, so they changed the rules, which they seem to be doing a lot with him lately.

so that makes the money argument even less valid.

with a budget for the office in a great location and lots of freebie posters and signs and brochures?

:shrug: The choice is up to you...as you know.

The choice made to exclude him in Iowa was punitive and arbitrary, particularly as Alan Keyes, who had neither office nor staff was allowed to participate. The case is the same with the New Hampshire and Nevada debates; he meets the criteria, so they raise the bar and change the rules.

in NH and has campaigned there as well.

If you did any research you would know these facts.

Let's kick another member of the Democratic wing of the Democratic party to the curb!

Let's find another progressive to bash now! It's so much fun, and I hear you can get a bounty on their pelts from Rove.

Single Payer Universal Healthcare, like the civilized nations have. That is what he brings to the table.

Pray you never get really sick.

Stop spewing the RW talking points, and actually go and do some research on Kucinich's plans(very detailed they are), his positions and why he votes the way he does.

Yes, he has little money, you know why? Because he is not willing to be corporately compromised in the same fashion as the top tier candidates are.

Your ignorance is showing, you should go correct that. Or not, and keep on looking foolish.:shrug:

He wouldnt steal 'em.

Which is why they don't want him there, because the corporatists don't want the REAL issues discussed. And as soon as Edwards started borrowing from Dennis' platform, they started cutting him out too.

You can support him or not, but the fact that you "loathe" him suggests that you have ties to the predatory corporate interests that he's fought all his life.

I'm an inner city middle school teacher, currently. I left my job teaching at college.


Where, exactly, are my corporate interests?

to use against one of the two candidates who actually exhibits some concern for inner city middle school students and others who are off the radar of the national media.

Or at least Rudy supporter, if you know what I mean.....

Mark Green and then Fernando Ferrer.

Prior to that I was too young to vote.


Questions?

here at DU. I think Kucinich is a fucking batshit crazy new age woo woo even though I would like a candidate as left wing as he is, i just want one that is a bit more reality based.

I thought your post was hysterical, especially the part that said "he needs to be excised like a cancer". BWAHAHAHAHAHA

you will notice many on this thread who are "outraged" over your comments have no problem trashing somebody elses favored candidate (if you look at other threads). lots of HYPOCRITES here at DU.

and I don't care if people critisize him.

That's what the American Democracy is supposed to be about. We don't annoint Kings and Queens here or cut off heads for doing so. Apparantly people see Republicans who often walk lock step with their leaders and find that inspiring.

He couldnt care less for them.

He cares for his own ego.

Charlie Rangel is my representative and fights for money for the school I work for. Kucinich does not. He chases windmills.

And it is a strong verb, and it is the same verb I used 4 years ago.

Kucinich has accomplished NOTHING but runs on gossamer hopes.

Facts trump feelings and MIND trumps HEART.

Kucinich appeals to nothing but irrationality.

or just google mayor cleveland dennis kucinich, see what pops up.

perhaps youll see him standing up to corprate interets when they tried to take over muny

or perhaps you'll see that he can identify with the poor and middle class because thats where he came from

maybe you'll see that he doesnt have his head in the clouds because his feet are on the pavement marching with the people.

maybe youll see that their is nothing rational about the current system so maybe what we need is a little bit of irrationality in order to make the system work for the people instead of vice versa as it is today.

one of the worst mayors in history?

when looked into further it was revealed that the banks were owned by the same people who owned the local private utility companies. they tried to force his hand to sell the public works.

if he had he would have gotten rid of city debt, made to look like a good guy for fixing the problem and probably would have been reelected.

rather then sell it however he told them he would not sell the it. thus incuring the wrath of the banks and the scourge of the people. now the citizens enjoy low priced energy provided by the city of cleveland and the city enjoys the income from that energy and puts it to other more constructive uses, because of him standing up he started a wonderful synergy that is still maintained today.

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He brings lots of things to the table.

He is the only candidate who voted against IWR.

He is the only candidate who voted against Patriot Act.

He's one of two candidates against the death penalty.

He's against wasting money on the war on drugs.

He's an advocate for true single payer health care system, not the carefully disguised corporate giveaways the other candidates are proposing.

He's for cutting the bloated and wasteful defense budget and reallocating the money back into domestic social and infrastructure programs.

Those are just a few of the issues where he brings something different to the table than the pablum we're getting from the top tier candidates. Now, none of those things may be important to you, but they are important to a considerable number of people who are not going to be represented otherwise.

The one candidate who actually brings up the things that people need to know about and he gets all this shyte dumped on him. I don't get it....(well, actually, I do)


Good points, Green Arrow.I agree.

DR

Go team! Four years ago, it was ABB. Now, Bush is gone, and it's ABR. And indeed, the Democrats stand a good chance of winning what likely be a Pyhrric victory.

As someone else put it above, he is the only one running who is bringing anything to the table. The others are talking about what color to paint the walls, he's talking about repairing the foundation. He's ahead of his time, he's been right about nearly everything, and the country will come to his position, after it's too late, likely kicking and screaming.

why I will never again vote for a Democrat if Clinton becomes the nominee.

Get lost. I hear Nader would like your company.

I'll support the nom regardless of who it is.

and just to reiterate, a Clinton nomination means that I NEVER vote another Democrat again.

Honestly.. do the country a favor.. go back to american Idol and let the adults deal with Politics.

received to spam message boards against DK?

IBTL

"I'll say what is true, even if you people hate me for it."

Well, I guess you've just picked the right fight then huh?

Hmmm member for 4 years and less than 500 posts.. either you pick your words very carefully (hard to imagine after reading your OP) or you just come around for the sport of it every 4 years. Nothing wrong with that, I guess. But please tell us exactly why you give a damn about Kooch? He has no shot, most of us recognize it, and we also recognize that he is not perfect. But he IS a member of the U.S. Congress, duly elected, and he DOES stand up for things that most others will not - regardless of your suspicions regarding his motives.

:popcorn:

"He has no plans, just broad, sweeping ideological windmills": This is how I would describe two of the top three Dem candidates -- and I don't mean Edwards.

I don't know whether you have any control over the media in this country, but they seem to be following your wishes to a "T" in "excising" Dennis Kucinich from the political process. They're working on doing that to Edwards, too.

If DK is eliminated from the debates, who will tell America that:

*Single Payer Universal HealthCare is not only possible, but cheaper.

*that "For Profit" HealthCare is obscene

*that Mandatory Health Insurance is NOT REALLY Universal HealthCare

*that the Democratic Party and American taxpayers should NOT be forced to subsidize some of the richest CEOs in history by subsidizing the HealthCare Insurance Corps and HMOs.

*that the USA SHOULD give the Imperial Palace (Green Zone) back to the Iraqis, close the permanent bases, expel all Corporate Consultants, withdraw ALL US Troops, and begin paying reparations NOW.

*that redeploying some troops at some future date is a PRO-WAR position.

*that the "Oil Law Benchmark" supported by the Democratic Party is a War Crime

*That we can have election accountability with "Paper Ballots publicly hand counted at the precinct".

*that we CAN cut $Billions$ from the Defense Budget

*that the RICHEST Corporations in history do NOT need $Billions$ in welfare subsidies

*that NAFTA (Free Trade) has not been a good thing for Americans who have to work for a living



Who will tell the truth to America if DK is kicked off the Democratic stage? :shrug:

Dennis Kucinich's voice is one of the few reasons I am still in the Democratic Party.

Dennis is a REAL pain in the ass to people who would rather to not talk about the ISSUES Dennis brings to the debates.


Curious:
Are you a "manager" for the Health Insurance Industry?
If not, do you realize you are carrying their water?

Like his feelings on women's right to choose?

Like his stance on flag burning?

Like his stance on privacy?

oh yeah his stance on a womens right to choose is.....he beilieves it is up to a women to choose (doh)

granted he used to be pro life just because he believes life begins at conception and his opinion has not changed, just his judgment.

as for flag burning, whats wrong with his current position? and as for privacy I have not heard any weird ideas coming from kucinich on privacy. If your going to bring accusations bring the facts as well so that you can at least attempt to educate us on whatever "facts" you might have.

The only real universal, single-payer, NOT FOR PROFIT health CARE plan on the table.

Impeachment.

End of NAFTA.

End of war.

Universal pre-school through college, removing the economic barriers to opportunity.

Paper ballots.

Publicly funded elections.

And more. Much more.

If you loathe the things that he brings, then you ARE the problem.

....especially the last sentence.



"If you loathe the things that he brings, then you ARE the problem."


:hi:DR

that I no longer want to argue about candidates. At this point, it's voters that I hold accountable.

Voters are ultimately responsible for who we have in office.

Voters cannot be manipulated by the media or by big money unless they choose to.

For so many, it's like playing a very competitive game, with the promise that if you just "win," good things will happen. I don't have that same faith, that just because they are a Democrat they are going to do the right things in office. There's too much evidence to the contrary.

It becomes harder and harder to blame those in office for their records when voters are willing to elect them anyway.

I want to elect people who will actually do the work in office that I send them to Washington to do. I don't help elect them so that they can help wage a corporate war, use fear to manipulate people, help undermine civil liberties, help health insurance and pharmaceutical companies make a profit, help outsource jobs so that corporations do not have to deal with labor rights or environmental standards, allow the constitution to be trampled, etc..

I'm not going to vote for anyone who doesn't have a better record than that. If most voters could say the same, we'd have seen more vigorous opposition, and possibly less destruction, the last 8 years.

I'll turn the rant off now.

Thanks for listening, friend.

:hug:

that needs to be corrected. Dennis did manage to get one(1)bill passed. This was some time ago and I have forgotten what the bill was. But, he certainly did get a bill all the way through the system.

This may be trivia, but does anyone know what kind of car he owns and drives?

It doesn't surprise me that he was able to get something passed. It angers me to see that his own party doesn't support him when he introduces bills that are GOOD for democrats, and for all citizens. :grr:

and republicans all of your adult life.

Am I close?