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Could someone post Clinton's 2002 anti-war speech please? I posted Obama's. Thanks!

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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:19 PM
Original message
Could someone post Clinton's 2002 anti-war speech please? I posted Obama's. Thanks!
Edited on Sun Jan-13-08 12:19 PM by Bonobo
On second thought... maybe there isn't one?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Here's her pro-war Mar 2003 comments
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. That's the "steady hand" of "experience!"
No thanks.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. here is link to Clinton October 2002 IWR speech - also the speech
http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html

October 10, 2002
Floor Speech of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton
on S.J. Res. 45, A Resolution to Authorize the Use of
United States Armed Forces Against Iraq

As Delivered

Today we are asked whether to give the President of the United States authority to use force in Iraq should diplomatic efforts fail to dismantle Saddam Hussein's chemical and biological weapons and his nuclear program.

I am honored to represent nearly 19 million New Yorkers, a thoughtful democracy of voices and opinions who make themselves heard on the great issues of our day especially this one. Many have contacted my office about this resolution, both in support of and in opposition to it, and I am grateful to all who have expressed an opinion.

I also greatly respect the differing opinions within this body. The debate they engender will aid our search for a wise, effective policy. Therefore, on no account should dissent be discouraged or disparaged. It is central to our freedom and to our progress, for on more than one occasion, history has proven our great dissenters to be right.

Now, I believe the facts that have brought us to this fateful vote are not in doubt. Saddam Hussein is a tyrant who has tortured and killed his own people, even his own family members, to maintain his iron grip on power. He used chemical weapons on Iraqi Kurds and on Iranians, killing over 20 thousand people. Unfortunately, during the 1980's, while he engaged in such horrific activity, he enjoyed the support of the American government, because he had oil and was seen as a counterweight to the Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran.

In 1991, Saddam Hussein invaded and occupied Kuwait, losing the support of the United States. The first President Bush assembled a global coalition, including many Arab states, and threw Saddam out after forty-three days of bombing and a hundred hours of ground operations. The U.S.-led coalition then withdrew, leaving the Kurds and the Shiites, who had risen against Saddam Hussein at our urging, to Saddam's revenge.

As a condition for ending the conflict, the United Nations imposed a number of requirements on Iraq, among them disarmament of all weapons of mass destruction, stocks used to make such weapons, and laboratories necessary to do the work. Saddam Hussein agreed, and an inspection system was set up to ensure compliance. And though he repeatedly lied, delayed, and obstructed the inspections work, the inspectors found and destroyed far more weapons of mass destruction capability than were destroyed in the Gulf War, including thousands of chemical weapons, large volumes of chemical and biological stocks, a number of missiles and warheads, a major lab equipped to produce anthrax and other bio-weapons, as well as substantial nuclear facilities.

In 1998, Saddam Hussein pressured the United Nations to lift the sanctions by threatening to stop all cooperation with the inspectors. In an attempt to resolve the situation, the UN, unwisely in my view, agreed to put limits on inspections of designated "sovereign sites" including the so-called presidential palaces, which in reality were huge compounds well suited to hold weapons labs, stocks, and records which Saddam Hussein was required by UN resolution to turn over. When Saddam blocked the inspection process, the inspectors left. As a result, President Clinton, with the British and others, ordered an intensive four-day air assault, Operation Desert Fox, on known and suspected weapons of mass destruction sites and other military targets.

In 1998, the United States also changed its underlying policy toward Iraq from containment to regime change and began to examine options to effect such a change, including support for Iraqi opposition leaders within the country and abroad.

In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001.

It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.

Now this much is undisputed. The open questions are: what should we do about it? How, when, and with whom?

Some people favor attacking Saddam Hussein now, with any allies we can muster, in the belief that one more round of weapons inspections would not produce the required disarmament, and that deposing Saddam would be a positive good for the Iraqi people and would create the possibility of a secular democratic state in the Middle East, one which could perhaps move the entire region toward democratic reform.

This view has appeal to some, because it would assure disarmament; because it would right old wrongs after our abandonment of the Shiites and Kurds in 1991, and our support for Saddam Hussein in the 1980's when he was using chemical weapons and terrorizing his people; and because it would give the Iraqi people a chance to build a future in freedom.

However, this course is fraught with danger. We and our NATO allies did not depose Mr. Milosevic, who was responsible for more than a quarter of a million people being killed in the 1990s. Instead, by stopping his aggression in Bosnia and Kosovo, and keeping on the tough sanctions, we created the conditions in which his own people threw him out and led to his being in the dock being tried for war crimes as we speak.

If we were to attack Iraq now, alone or with few allies, it would set a precedent that could come back to haunt us. In recent days, Russia has talked of an invasion of Georgia to attack Chechen rebels. India has mentioned the possibility of a pre-emptive strike on Pakistan. And what if China were to perceive a threat from Taiwan?

So Mr. President, for all its appeal, a unilateral attack, while it cannot be ruled out, on the present facts is not a good option.

Others argue that we should work through the United Nations and should only resort to force if and when the United Nations Security Council approves it. This too has great appeal for different reasons. The UN deserves our support. Whenever possible we should work through it and strengthen it, for it enables the world to share the risks and burdens of global security and when it acts, it confers a legitimacy that increases the likelihood of long-term success. The UN can help lead the world into a new era of global cooperation and the United States should support that goal.

But there are problems with this approach as well. The United Nations is an organization that is still growing and maturing. It often lacks the cohesion to enforce its own mandates. And when Security Council members use the veto, on occasion, for reasons of narrow-minded interests, it cannot act. In Kosovo, the Russians did not approve NATO military action because of political, ethnic, and religious ties to the Serbs. The United States therefore could not obtain a Security Council resolution in favor of the action necessary to stop the dislocation and ethnic cleansing of more than a million Kosovar Albanians. However, most of the world was with us because there was a genuine emergency with thousands dead and a million driven from their homes. As soon as the American-led conflict was over, Russia joined the peacekeeping effort that is still underway.

In the case of Iraq, recent comments indicate that one or two Security Council members might never approve force against Saddam Hussein until he has actually used chemical, biological, or God forbid, nuclear weapons.

So, Mr. President, the question is how do we do our best to both defuse the real threat that Saddam Hussein poses to his people, to the region, including Israel, to the United States, to the world, and at the same time, work to maximize our international support and strengthen the United Nations?

While there is no perfect approach to this thorny dilemma, and while people of good faith and high intelligence can reach diametrically opposed conclusions, I believe the best course is to go to the UN for a strong resolution that scraps the 1998 restrictions on inspections and calls for complete, unlimited inspections with cooperation expected and demanded from Iraq. I know that the Administration wants more, including an explicit authorization to use force, but we may not be able to secure that now, perhaps even later. But if we get a clear requirement for unfettered inspections, I believe the authority to use force to enforce that mandate is inherent in the original 1991 UN resolution, as President Clinton recognized when he launched Operation Desert Fox in 1998.

If we get the resolution that President Bush seeks, and if Saddam complies, disarmament can proceed and the threat can be eliminated. Regime change will, of course, take longer but we must still work for it, nurturing all reasonable forces of opposition.

If we get the resolution and Saddam does not comply, then we can attack him with far more support and legitimacy than we would have otherwise.

If we try and fail to get a resolution that simply, but forcefully, calls for Saddam's compliance with unlimited inspections, those who oppose even that will be in an indefensible position. And, we will still have more support and legitimacy than if we insist now on a resolution that includes authorizing military action and other requirements giving some nations superficially legitimate reasons to oppose any Security Council action. They will say we never wanted a resolution at all and that we only support the United Nations when it does exactly what we want.

I believe international support and legitimacy are crucial. After shots are fired and bombs are dropped, not all consequences are predictable. While the military outcome is not in doubt, should we put troops on the ground, there is still the matter of Saddam Hussein's biological and chemical weapons. Today he has maximum incentive not to use them or give them away. If he did either, the world would demand his immediate removal. Once the battle is joined, however, with the outcome certain, he will have maximum incentive to use weapons of mass destruction and to give what he can't use to terrorists who can torment us with them long after he is gone. We cannot be paralyzed by this possibility, but we would be foolish to ignore it. And according to recent reports, the CIA agrees with this analysis. A world united in sharing the risk at least would make this occurrence less likely and more bearable and would be far more likely to share with us the considerable burden of rebuilding a secure and peaceful post-Saddam Iraq.

President Bush's speech in Cincinnati and the changes in policy that have come forth since the Administration began broaching this issue some weeks ago have made my vote easier. Even though the resolution before the Senate is not as strong as I would like in requiring the diplomatic route first and placing highest priority on a simple, clear requirement for unlimited inspections, I will take the President at his word that he will try hard to pass a UN resolution and will seek to avoid war, if at all possible.

Because bipartisan support for this resolution makes success in the United Nations more likely, and therefore, war less likely, and because a good faith effort by the United States, even if it fails, will bring more allies and legitimacy to our cause, I have concluded, after careful and serious consideration, that a vote for the resolution best serves the security of our nation. If we were to defeat this resolution or pass it with only a few Democrats, I am concerned that those who want to pretend this problem will go way with delay will oppose any UN resolution calling for unrestricted inspections.

This is a very difficult vote. This is probably the hardest decision I have ever had to make -- any vote that may lead to war should be hard -- but I cast it with conviction.

And perhaps my decision is influenced by my eight years of experience on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue in the White House watching my husband deal with serious challenges to our nation. I want this President, or any future President, to be in the strongest possible position to lead our country in the United Nations or in war. Secondly, I want to insure that Saddam Hussein makes no mistake about our national unity and for our support for the President's efforts to wage America's war against terrorists and weapons of mass destruction. And thirdly, I want the men and women in our Armed Forces to know that if they should be called upon to act against Iraq, our country will stand resolutely behind them.

My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of pre-emption, or for uni-lateralism, or for the arrogance of American power or purpose -- all of which carry grave dangers for our nation, for the rule of international law and for the peace and security of people throughout the world.

Over eleven years have passed since the UN called on Saddam Hussein to rid himself of weapons of mass destruction as a condition of returning to the world community. Time and time again he has frustrated and denied these conditions. This matter cannot be left hanging forever with consequences we would all live to regret. War can yet be avoided, but our responsibility to global security and to the integrity of United Nations resolutions protecting it cannot. I urge the President to spare no effort to secure a clear, unambiguous demand by the United Nations for unlimited inspections.

And finally, on another personal note, I come to this decision from the perspective of a Senator from New York who has seen all too closely the consequences of last year's terrible attacks on our nation. In balancing the risks of action versus inaction, I think New Yorkers who have gone through the fires of hell may be more attuned to the risk of not acting. I know that I am.

So it is with conviction that I support this resolution as being in the best interests of our nation. A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort. And it is a vote that says clearly to Saddam Hussein - this is your last chance - disarm or be disarmed.

Thank you, Mr. President.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. She said: "history has proven our great dissenters to be right."
How ironic and true. Too bad she wasn't on the side of the dissenters with Obama.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. The below statement puts the lie to her claim she though inspectors would go back in.
"Some people favor attacking Saddam Hussein now, with any allies we can muster, in the belief that one more round of weapons inspections would not produce the required disarmament, and that deposing Saddam would be a positive good for the Iraqi people and would create the possibility of a secular democratic state in the Middle East, one which could perhaps move the entire region toward democratic reform."

Can you explain THAT?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. god is that stupid.
I've long been touting Leahy's speech where he destroys that concept and predicts precisely what happened.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. No one EVER could have thought that. It was 100% clear Al Baradei was being thrown out.
Does EVERYONE have brain damage to their memory centers?
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
31. ahem, did you read just a tad bit further down where she said this about that:
Edited on Sun Jan-13-08 12:50 PM by MassDemm
This view has appeal to some, because it would assure disarmament; because it would right old wrongs after our abandonment of the Shiites and Kurds in 1991, and our support for Saddam Hussein in the 1980's when he was using chemical weapons and terrorizing his people; and because it would give the Iraqi people a chance to build a future in freedom.

However, this course is fraught with danger. We and our NATO allies did not depose Mr. Milosevic, who was responsible for more than a quarter of a million people being killed in the 1990s. Instead, by stopping his aggression in Bosnia and Kosovo, and keeping on the tough sanctions, we created the conditions in which his own people threw him out and led to his being in the dock being tried for war crimes as we speak.....

If we were to attack Iraq now, alone or with few allies, it would set a precedent that could come back to haunt us. In recent days, Russia has talked of an invasion of Georgia to attack Chechen rebels. India has mentioned the possibility of a pre-emptive strike on Pakistan. And what if China were to perceive a threat from Taiwan?
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. She repeats all the Bush administration lies about WMD's and ties to Al Qaeda.
She even brings up 9/11, parroting that Bush tactic of confusing the two issues in the minds of the voters. What a complete fool. I don't want someone this easily duped to be anywhere near the White House.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. Floor Speech of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on S.J. Res. 45 (aka, "the IWR")
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Could you post what he's done in his Senate career
that reflects that speech?

any actions?

No?

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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. At LEAST he spoke out against the war forcefully. More than Hillary did!
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:27 PM
Original message
Easy to do from the cheap seats.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
16. Maybe so, but it is what it is. Hillary's performance vis a vis the war has been shameful.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Obama doesn't know how he would have voted
so it's a moot point.

My guess, though, is he would have voted "present".
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. THAT does nothing to address the KNOWN, which is Hillary's shameful performance.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. You raised it as a point
in Obama's favor. So I commented on it.

Don't like it?

Tough.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Fine, but you clearly have no real answer about Clinton's war position.
Sorry if I embarrassed you by bringing it up!
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. I have no problem with Senator Clinton's record.
Guess that's why.
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
39. Wow!! That really scares me.
I guess the death of tens of thousands innocent people is no big deal. Wow!!
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. I guess you really don't know much about anything then
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bluedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
54. I agree .he was in the ILL. Senate
when he said this NOT the US Senate where he would have had to take sides and it would have been on his record .....
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. Iraq War De-escalation Act
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Ouch! I guess you shouldn't ask a question unless you know the answer!
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. So he basically just voted "present"
between his great 2002 speech and his run for the WH?

What was this great leader of the anti-war movement doing for these last 5 years?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Ending Weapons Proliferation
with Dick Lugar.

Seriously, he's pretty awesome, but he can't save the world single-handedly.

http://obama.senate.gov/press/060523-lugar-obama_bil/
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Some reading material
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. 2007! That was ummm... 4 years too late and 4 years after the rest of us figured it out.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. so you didn't read all the material
okay.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. You prefaced it with a big "2007"!
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Because 2007 is the most recent --is it not?
Or are we in a pissing match about who said what first?

Obama has been mostly silent between 2002 and 2007, but I'm supposed to believe him?

Show me all HIS floor speeches, all I've been given is a plan he crafted this year?
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. I think it IS an issue of who said what first, exactly right. Why should it not be?
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Read --and I mean really read.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. Whew, okay, I just got through about 70% of that very, very long talk.
Here is a quote I picked up that I think is important:

"But it took 10 years to create a stable, sovereign government, and we still have troops in Germany, as we do in Japan, as we do in South Korea, as we do in Bosnia, as we do in Kosovo. So the idea that we can somehow bring about dramatic transformational change in either a short period of time or with a relatively limited financial commitment is contradicted by our own history. And therefore we have not only the need for patience but a sense that we are going to be involved over the long run, or we will not guarantee or create the conditions for potential success."

So she wants lots of patience. This is consistent with her stated intention to leave a manned embassy of thousands of people to be guarded by tens of thousands of troops.

What is it that YOU see in there that gives you comfort? yes, she calls for more UN presence. Big deal. Yes she calls for more attention to winning hearts and minds. Big deal. Please tell me what I am supposed to see in there?

Oh, did you notice the person from the "Blaustein Institute for Human Rights"?
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. What do I see?
I see an intelligent adult dealing with a stacked deck and calling for an end to US occupation in Iraq as early as Dec 2003.

That's what I see.

I see someone talking in as bold terms as she is able from the Senate hot-seat.

This is on December 15th 2003--where Bush's approvals were way up --and people's eyes were brimming with the deposing of Saddam.


Obama's 2002 speech did not jepordize his position with respect to working with other Senators on needed action.
Do we have any Obama speeches from a similar time? I'm curious --not doubting he did --but I can't find anything.

If you can find any anti-war speeches of his while he was in the Senate and before 2007, I'd be eager to read them as they might change my opinion of him.


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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Have to run out. Maybe later.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Oh, finally she changes her position
And I'm supposed to believe the sudden revelation. Don't think so.

This is all I'll ever need to know about Hillary Clinton and Iraq. She was the architect of the IWR strategy, she never opposed the invasion, she had to be brought kicking and screaming to supporting any kind of withdrawal, she is not fit to be the Dem candidate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYATbsu2cP8

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/clintIon.htm
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. if you read what I posted
you would see it's not sudden at all --it's an evolution of thought. In the way people of real intelligence process events.


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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. lol, an evolution of thought, lol
No thank you.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. I "evolved" in about 5 seconds. As soon as I heard Bush's intentions.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. you can't even process your own links
so no soup for you

December 15, 2003

http://www.cfr.org/publication/6600/remarks_by_senator_hillary_rodham_clinton_transcript.html

So the question that I was asked most frequently when I returned was, well, are you optimistic or pessimistic, and I have to confess that my answer is neither. I am both a little optimistic and a little pessimistic, but what I'm trying to do is be realistic about where we are and what we need to be successful. We have no option but to stay involved and committed.
To that end, I applauded both Secretaries Powell and Rumsfeld for their recent trip to NATO to persuade NATO to become involved in Iraq. This may be somewhat tardy, but it is very welcome. Unfortunately, there has not been a very positive response from NATO as of yet. At this point, I think, NATO -- and indeed, non-NATO allies -- have as much of a stake in the success of Iraq as we do. And therefore, they should be looking to work with the administration to create the opportunities that they can then pursue to become more involved in Iraq. It would be extremely important and it would remove the taint of this being an American occupation.
Secondly, I would strongly recommend we create some kind of organization -- call it what you will; the Iraq Reconstruction and Stabilization Authority, or whatever name is chosen. It could include a proper role for NATO and for the U.N., which would replace the Coalition Provisional Authority, which would add both military and civilian resources so that this was not just an American occupation, and would provide more flexibility for us in achieving the timetable at whatever speed is appropriate to transfer sovereignty to the Iraqis.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Yes she supported the occupation and war
She's not against it, never was against it.

"I was one who supported giving President Bush the authority, if necessary, to use force against Saddam Hussein. I believe that that was the right vote. I have had many disputes and disagreements with the administration over how that authority has been used, but I stand by the vote to provide the authority because I think it was a necessary step in order to maximize the outcome that did occur in the Security Council with the unanimous vote to send in inspectors. And I also knew that our military forces would be successful. But what we did not appreciate fully and what the administration was unprepared for was what would happen the day after."
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. Emphasis mine


"I was one who supported giving President Bush the authority, if necessary, to use force against Saddam Hussein. I believe that that was the right vote. I have had many disputes and disagreements with the administration over how that authority has been used, but I stand by the vote to provide the authority because I think it was a necessary step in order to maximize the outcome that did occur in the Security Council with the unanimous vote to send in inspectors. And I also knew that our military forces would be successful. But what we did not appreciate fully and what the administration was unprepared for was what would happen the day after."


Reading comprehension is YOUR friend.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. When?
She says she did, but the video from Code Pink shows otherwise. Clinton triangulation. She did not oppose the war.

She criticized the execution, not the actual war. BIG difference.

Honesty and memory are YOUR friends.

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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. I see
so Clinton's speeches are only analyzed and picked apart when it is to the advantage of bashing her.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. No, I take them as a whole, the totality
Edited on Sun Jan-13-08 02:09 PM by sandnsea
*I'm* not the one picking them apart, you are. You have to hunt through years of statements to find the 2 or 3 qualifications she allowed herself in case the war didn't go well.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. and you have one speech in 2002
before the guy was even in the Senate.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. Right, Miss Experience was IN THE SENATE
She's the one with the husband who had access to the most sensitive intelligence available. She's the one who didn't read the NIE. Her advisors are the ones who John Edwards quoted as leading him to vote for the IWR. And she stuck by her wrong opinion for over 4 years. That's what your experienced candidate has done for the Democratic Party.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. and Mr. Non Experience
Edited on Sun Jan-13-08 02:27 PM by maddiejoan
spoke from the cheap seats with zero information --got elected and then kept his mouth shut until he decided to run for President.

So basically --he's just anti-war when he's campaigning?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. Mr. Got It Right
Has not just stayed silent.

http://obama.senate.gov/issues/iraq/

Has Hillary called Bush out on his war lies, or are they still giving them, in Bill's words, the "benefit of the doubt".

"However, I think what is also true is that the Administration launched the Iraq war without giving either Congress or the American people the full story. This is not a partisan claim - you don't have to take my word for it. All you need to do is to match up the Administration's statements during the run-up to the war with the now declassified intelligence estimates that they had in their possession at the time. Match them up and you will conclude that at the very least, the Administration shaded, exaggerated and selectively used the intelligence available in order to make the case for invasion."
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Like I say
silent until running.

Thanks for proving my point.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. I guess you didn't click the link,
stay blinded if you want to I suppose.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. I did click it
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. did not did not, brother, bye n/t
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. okay
:shrug:
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. Okay, that was one of the things I read. So? She was concerned about the taint
of American Occupation? Is that it? Is that supposed to change my mind?
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #60
66. You were able to read "between the lines"
on her Medical marijuana position, why so lazy on her Iraq position?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. Where is the Link to Obama's 2002 speech please?
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Here.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. thanks
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
8. 'I'm not privy to Senate intelligence reports. ... What would I have done? I don't know,'
Oh wait, that's Obama.

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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. That really puts the "eeek" in "weak"!
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
12. You rock, Bonobo.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
14. IP has NOT posted Obama's 2002 speech. Please post.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Here you go.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
24. Still waiting! Hey Clinton fans! When did she turn against the war?
ANSWER: After it became clear that it was the correct political move, of course.
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TeamJordan23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
27. I would also like a link to Bill Clinton's anti-war speech also. Thanks. nm
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. I would rather see Hillary's since she is running. Come on someone, step up!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Heres her Dec 2003 speech to CFR
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Nope, that's not the kind of "war opposition" I'm familiar with either. nt
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #35
52. Did you read it --really?
She is calling for a transition to a more international presence at this point as a means to have the Iraqi Government begin to stand on it's own. She is arguing for this to occur in July of '04

She is criticizing Bush for his hamhanded approach to the War --and calling for a whole new direction to the conflict, she's even warning about our continued presence in what is becoming a Civil-War in Iraq.

And --she is doing this before many of her colleagues did.

Thank you for the post.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. Yes, she's criticizing the execution, not the war itself
I was one who supported giving President Bush the authority, if necessary, to use force against Saddam Hussein. I believe that that was the right vote. I have had many disputes and disagreements with the administration over how that authority has been used, but I stand by the vote to provide the authority because I think it was a necessary step in order to maximize the outcome that did occur in the Security Council with the unanimous vote to send in inspectors. And I also knew that our military forces would be successful. But what we did not appreciate fully and what the administration was unprepared for was what would happen the day after.

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antiimperialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
32. Obama's speech was better, although in 2004 he said he didnt know how he had voted n/t
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Better than what? I have not seen a 2002 Anti-Iraq speech from Hillary.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
36. Wow, this must be VERY UNCOMFORTABLE for Hillary supporters!
Judging by how most avoid this thread like the plague.

Could it be that she really IS the calculating, finger in the wind, "let's listen to the focus group" type of politician we are ALL sick to death of?
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cindyw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
40. So sorry, I couldn't find one till she was running for the Pres!
:kick:
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
65. I know people won't read her whole speech, so here.....from 2002 before she voted...
My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of pre-emption, or for uni-lateralism, or for the arrogance of American power or purpose -- all of which carry grave dangers for our nation, for the rule of international law and for the peace and security of people throughout the world.

*******

...... A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort. And it is a vote that says clearly to Saddam Hussein - this is your last chance - disarm or be disarmed.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #65
70. Her remarks to Code Pink in Mar 2003
Are ten times more important than this speech. John Kerry was saying "Do Not Rush To War", and Hillary was giving Bush cover. It's not the vote, it's the 4+ years after the vote that matter.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYATbsu2cP8
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