Says Joe Lowery: Obama’s black doubters have a ‘slave mentality’

Says Joe Lowery: Obama’s black doubters have a ‘slave mentality’
Wednesday, January 16, 2008, 04:09 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Just when you thought supporters of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton had gotten past this race thing.

In an address to the Hungry Club at Butler Street YMCA in downtown Atlanta, the Rev. Joseph Lowery re-stoked the fires on Wednesday when he told the largely African-American audience that “a slave mentality” was fueling black doubts about Obama’s chances of capturing the White House.

The report comes from our AJC colleague, John Hollis, who was at the event.

“No matter how much education they have, they never graduated from the slave mentality,” Lowery said of those who have advised Obama to wait, or have doubted his ability to compete in a general election.

“The slavery mentality compels us to say, ‘We can’t win, we can’t do,’” said Lowery, an avid Obama supporter and a co-founder of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.

Strong words, when you consider that they include people like U.S. Rep. John Lewis or former Atlanta mayor Andrew Young.

Lowery likened discouraging comments about Obama to ones Martin Luther King received while imprisoned in a Birmingham jail in 1963.

A number of local white ministers told King at the time they agreed with him, but they didn’t think the time was right for such civil dissent.

“Martin said the people who were saying ‘later’ were really saying ‘never.’ But the time to do right is always right now,” Lowery said.

When asked whether the Democratic party was ready for a black president, Lowery replied, “I don’t care. They weren’t ready for a lot of things.”

Here’s a transcript of a Monday exchange between Lowery and Lewis on the same topic, on PBS’ “The News Hour with Jim Lehrer.”

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/shared-blogs/ajc/politicalinsider/entries/2008/01/16/says_joe_lowery_obamas_black_d.html

because its got nothing to do with Obama's qualifications, its all about race, thanks for reminding me.

:sarcasm:

What ever posseses them to say it. Its foot in mouth disease.

will not elect him President.

Short sited strategy to make this black vs white, instead of best qualified.
Fanning race. No good for Obama's future after the election, no good for a united America.

The Clinton camp manipulated this into black vs white. If you can't see that, then you are very naive.

its people who read or project race cards into statements where it was not intended and cry race bait who started this shit.

Some of those statements were very deliberatly made.

He's playing nice.

You are a fine mind reader (joke) and a lousy political analyst. In the SC primary polls (considered fairly important) Clinton took a major hit from this shit storm. Its absurd to think they brought it on intentionally. And I watched this board for days and never saw a convincing argument by any poster or major media outlet that could make a reasoned argument that a race card was played. The argument from the proponents eventually got down to "code words". Fucking nonsense. It has benefited Obama so far, however, he probably received a ton of pressure to tamp it down from other black politicians. It took him too long to do so imho.

Maybe the plan backfired or, then again, maybe it didn't. How is Obama polling among whites these days?

Hillary is closing the gap in South Carolina! Now how about that. She's really polling well with white voters. I'm from the South and I know exactly what demographic group the Clinton camp wanted to bolster up with the race baiting.

If you wish to debate this further though, we will have to do it through PMs. I am not going to fire up the board on the race issue again.

I was shocked when a Civil Rights person came out and attacked Obama like that. There is a LOT of envy amoung the older Black Civil Rights era people with regards to Obama.

I should've kept this one off the board. My bad. Seriously. :sadface:

It's from my hometown rag...I couldn't resist.

It needed to be said.. although, many will scream, and Rev Lowery(whom the bushes don't like for sure) is just the person to do it. I was really bummed with all the Blacks who are dissing Obama and I, selfishly, needed this to restore my faith in the human race.

i'm just wanting this whole racial thing to die down. Even if it helps Obama in SC I don't think it's a good conversation to be having.

Dude. Educate yourself. Mario would not be happy with you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Lowery

Why do people not warn me!!!!

Crikey indeed!

I just didn't think of that. :silly:

if you are going to start the discussion
Lowery is an icon of the civil rights movement- just like John Lewis and Dr. King. He is worthy of all of our respect.

It is absolutely disgusting to see supposedly progressive people engage in this kind of ignorant namecalling whenever someone who supports another candidate says something with which they don't agree. It's sad to know that so many of these people on our side are this clueless about our history and it's especially sickening to see people who now bask in the freedoms that people like Rev. Lowery fought so hard to gain, show such disdain so quickly, so blindly and so ignorantly.

Absolutely pathetic.

Well, let's start with this - he is NOT a "joker." Whether you agree with him or not, Rev. Lowery is a great man.

Funny, I recall a whole lot of Democrats thinking he was just GREAT a couple of years ago when he called George W. Bush out at Coretta Scott King's funeral - TO HIS FACE.

"She extended Martin's message against poverty, racism and war. She deplored the terror inflicted by our smart bombs on missions way afar. We know now there were no weapons of mass destruction over there. But Coretta knew and we know that there are weapons of misdirection right down here. Millions without health insurance. Poverty abounds. For war billions more but no more for the poor!"



The fact that he may say something with which you or I disagree does NOT make him a "joker" nor does it diminish his accomplishments and service to the civil rights movement and to the entire nation. Rev. Lowery stepped up, stood up and helped to make this country a better place for ALL of us. He did this at great personal risk and, I dare say, he sacrificed and contributed considerably more to what we believe in than most of us sitting on our computers arguing about this political campaign.

You can read more about Rev. Lowery here: http://www.thehistorymakers.com/biography/biography.asp?bioindex=455&category=CivicMakers

very uncomfortable......very very uncomfortable.

I've posted it several times. I don't know anything about a slave mentality, but the overall basis of his argument is true.

"slave mentality" either cause we haven't had it in our lineage but I expect Rev Lowery does.

So why is Rev. Lowery being attacked?

White people are saying other white people are too racist. I'll leave it to others to discuss what Rev Lowery might have meant by slave mentality because that is not in my culture.

However, I do believe that the basis for this opinion is often very different, depending upon the race of the person offering it.

My experience has been that when a white person says, "Obama can't win because people are racist and won't vote for him," it is usually said within the context of an argument against making him the nominee because if he ran and lost, it would be a serious setback for the party.

On the other hand, when I've hear blacks express the same opinion, "Obama can't win because people are racist and won't vote for him," this concern is usually not based upon worries about a Democratic setback, but very personal concern about Obama himself. Just about every black person I know (and I know a whole heap!), whether they support Obama's candidacy or not, feel very proud of him and also very, very protective. I can't tell you how many times that such discussions with black family and friends included the words, "afraid," "he'll get hurt," "they won't let him win," etc. I have found that an overwhelming amount of any doubts about Obama's candidacy among the black folk that I've discussed this with is based on a real concern, affection and protectiveness toward him, regardless of whether they agree with him politically.

race relations, and the hopes of minority children all over the country. The Party isn't the most important thing that matters here, it's way way down on the list.

There is also concern about someone shooting him among the white people I know, because the most inspiring always seem to end up dead which would be a loss to the entire world. As well as not even wanting to think about the response from the black community. I don't know about the "won't let him win" stuff because I don't think the tippy toppy elite powers of the world really care about race except to manipulate it to keep us at each other instead of them.

But I still don't know why Rev Lowery chose to use those particular words. Not feeling the belief in achieving whatever you dream is not unique to minorities. It's tough for a lot of lower income rural white kids to believe in their dreams too. It would be interesting to be able to really dig into the unique differences.

I don't agree that if Obama is the nominee and he doesn't win that it will be a setback for the country, will damage race relations or will harm minority children.

White men have been losing presidential races in this country for more than 230 years. Hundreds of them have won and lost and the country hasn't fallen apart. It certainly won't fall apart if a black man runs and loses. One of the signs of progress is not only when blacks are allowed to compete and win but when we are allowed to compete and lose, and not have the loss take on gargantuan proportions or universal meanings, just like white folk.

And minority children have all sorts of disappointments in their lives - seeing a black presidential candidate lose won't cause irreparable harm. In fact, the wonderful, positive images we've seen so far and will continue to see throughout the race of a strong, brilliant, fearless black man who is quite confident that he is the smartest person in the room (whether he actually is or not doesn't really matter - it's nice to see that HE thinks he's all that), of beautiful black children who give minority children across the country a chance to see someone on that stage who looks like THEM (no more wandering around the house with a yellow bath towel on their heads, pretending to have long blond hair like the little girls that are so often held up as the epitome of little girl beauty), and a smart, accomplished black woman who clearly stands beside and not behind her husband is ALREADY doing wonders for those minority children.

I understand where you're coming from, but I just don't believe that if Obama is the nominee and he loses that it will be the end of the world. And I also have trouble with your argument, however well intended, because it assumes that certain endeavors are still closed off to blacks.

If now is not the time for an African American to be the nominee, when WILL be the time? In four years? In eight years? In 20 years? And how will we know when that time has come? Will someone tell us? And who will that someone be? And what do we do in the meantime? Just sit on the sidelines, taking the crumbs while we watch all manner of white people- no matter how incompetent, pitiful, beatable, irrelevant or useless - access every area of politics and society to their heart's content and lose just as often as they win without being blamed for the downfall of civilization. Yet we must just sit tight and not get in the way because if we try and fail, we'll mess everything up.

As you can see, I strongly believe that the time is now (actually the time was a long time ago, but better late than never). This country has never been ready for change, until the change just showed up and got in its face.

If we wait for the right time, the right time will never come.

I'm delighted that Obama is running and would be thrilled to have him as our nominee (just as I would be thrilled to have Clinton or Edwards). And if he runs and loses, the country won't fall apart, children won't be scarred for life, and we will pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, move on and try to do better next time, just as we have done in the past each time one of the 107 white men who have lost presidential elections since 1789.

and quite upset about the idea that there be some other time. That someone will have to tell you, or you'll have to sit on the sidelines. Seems to me like this particular moment is pretty important to you.

But then you say it wouldn't be a setback if Obama weren't to win. That seems rather contradictory to me. For someone who doesn't think it would be upsetting to the hopes of minority children, you sure seem to be upset at the notion of anybody saying Obama shouldn't run.

Obama's loss would be a setback and tragedy to the world because he is a dynamic and visionary leader. It would be discouraging to minority children. I didn't say it would be the end of the world.

Very strange rant you've got going there, it really is.

but he shouldn't run at all because he might not win?

I believe it is your argument that is very strange.

And, frankly, I think your concern about how damaging a loss would be to minority children is incredibly paternalistic. Minority children aren't pathetic, weak little people who whose lives would be negatively affected because the first black person to be nominated for president didn't win the general election. In fact, sending the message to them that a "dynamic and visionary leader" shouldn't get the chance to even try to be president solely because the color of his skin might cause him to lose, would do considerably more harm to them than a noble try and loss would do.

Black adults - especially talented, brilliant, dynamic and visionary ones - should not pull back and not try to achieve what countless white people - many of them exceedingly mediocre - have every right and opportunity to do in order to protect black children from disappointed. The world is full of disappointment, especially for minority children. But the world is also full of hope and potential and opportunity. And I would much rather my children have the experience of watching a black man make history by running for president as his party's nominee, even if he eventually loses, than tell them that the world's just not yet ready for anyone who looks like them. Even if he loses, they will have learned so much from the experience (and, yes, the disappointment), that it would be worth it.

So, I'm not the least bit worried about the effet that a potential Obama loss would have on minority children. I AM, however, very concerned that some people really believe that it is ok to recommend that black people - even the dynamic and visionary ones - not try to reach for the stars because they might fall short. Fortunately, the evidence I've seen indicates that your view is not a prevailing one. Thank God.

I also know several minority children who are very inspired by his run. I think children need inspiration. They need to see accomplishment to believe in it. So shoot me.

You decided I was saying Obama shouldn't run. I was simply saying that Rev Lowery was addressing black leaders who had been saying he shouldn't run, as I am the only person on this board who has posted that info.

I specifically stayed away from any discussion of slave mentality in order to avoid any misunderstandings, which didn't work anyway.

And they are seeing that right now in Obama's run. And if he gets the nomination, they will see him make history. Even if he loses the General Election, his achievement will be so stellar, so historic, so inspiring, that it will stand forever and can never be taken away or diminished.

Minority children don't need to be shielded from defeat in order to be inspired. Obama is inspiring even if he doesn't win another thing. And if he loses, provided he does so with grace and dignity - which I have no doubt he would - there would be absolutely no shame in his game or in the hearts or minds of any minority child looking up to him.

Is that ok?

That's no different than voting for Hillary because she's a woman. I am frankly dismayed with some of the black "leaders" who aren't supporting Obama. It's time to put up or shut up as far as I'm concerned.

for doing that if they are also looking at the candidates proposals and qualifications. Obviously it can be taken too far, like, lets vote for Condisleeza, shes got both groups locked up!@

I don't vote based on race/gender, but I'm not oblivious to the fact that many people will. But if we are going to call out folks who vote for Obama because he's black then we need to call out women who vote for Hillary just because she's female. However, I can't understand how any black person who has worked hard for the advancement of African Americans could possibly endorse Clinton over Obama (for example the president of the NAACP in California). It would be like Steinem - I would think her rather strange if she endorsed Obama over Hillary because she has devoted her life to the advancement of women.

But at the same time any black person who supports Barack but thinks that its not worth it to vote needs to be encouraged. I know a lot of black people who do not want to waste time voting because they don't believe that BO can win because of his race. Some of these same people are throwing their votes to Clinton if they do vote at all because of the name.

The article states:

"Just when you thought supporters of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton had gotten past this race thing.

In an address to the Hungry Club at Butler Street YMCA in downtown Atlanta, the Rev. Joseph Lowery re-stoked the fires on Wednesday when he told the largely African-American audience that “a slave mentality” was fueling black doubts about Obama’s chances of capturing the White House."

I hold John Hollis responsible for this report, that will ultimately hurt Obama in the end. He should be ashamed of himself for crashing the meeting and then running back to tell the AJC about his findings.

gave the eulogy for Coretta Scott King when george and laura sat there with sour pusses frozen on their faces.

http://www.democracynow.org/2006/2/8/last_tributes_to_coretta_scott_king

But I am sick and damn tired of black Obama supporters telling me I need to vote for this man because I'm black and he's black or else there is something wrong with me. This motherfucker hasn't done a damn thing to earn my vote, in fact his people have basically told me they don't want it.

Fuck this noise.

what the other candidates have done for you.

Unlike every other candidate running, he believes in treating me like a full human being under the law.

I have enormous respect for Rev. Lowery, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to vote the way he things I should vote, any more than I would vote the way any other public figure tells me to.

Just don't vote for Obama - there's no point in getting furious at Lowery. He has certainly earned his right to have an opinon. And you have every right not to agree with him. But there's no point in attacking him over it.

Like I said, I respect him for all the work he's done over the years, he's been a blessing to the community and to all Americans for what he helped accomplish. The attacks on him are kind of shameful but not really surprising--people are ignorant, especially when it comes to history.

It's the idea I can't stand. Hope that clarified a bit.

him a motherfucker.

There's a difference. You can take that back to campaign HQ when you pick up your check, btw.

I thought you were referring to Obama in the preceding post. Btw, you can discuss issues without making smartass comments.

is very personal and I know Obama disappointed you.

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. The man simply said some black people can't vote for another black candidate for Prez because of their own history or view of history and beliefs. Fact is he is correct. Race is an issue in this society whether you like it or not. Not discussing it won't make it go away.

As far as this statement is concerned before you correct a problem you must first acknowledge the problem. The problem being, as Lowery puts it, slave mentality. It's now been addressed maybe someone will graduate.

they have been an oppressed minority. but when you look at the numbers of blacks that say they will vote for him, i think his argument might apply to only a select few.

I think that this was referring more about the pessimism regarding Obama before the Iowa caucus. Before Iowa many blacks weren't supporting him because they didn't think he could win. Iowa was a welcome surprise to everyone. Well, almost everyone, lol.

:popcorn:

Or racy sex?

There's no truth to that truce?

This "a black man can't be elected" is MENTAL SLAVERY. It's fear. It's a low ethnic self-esteem. It's CRAP.

yeah, and Hillay's playing the race card....

:shrug:

that is not to say Lowery doesn't have a point. Just that he has gotten carried away with it. For example, there certainly are black people who support Clinton for good reasons that have nothing to do with a slave mentality. I know some of them.

My dad is a mulatto Dominican man who supports Clinton, but he does because he thinks Obama is over his head trying to be the first black president in a nation that, according to him, will never elect a black person.

My dad is NOT supporting Obama for the right reasons. He does it because he's a mental slave. He feels blacks have their place in society and that we should not reach out for more. He's a mental slave, and that's the kind of person Lowery is talking about.

It's not about blacks who prefer Clinton over Obama because of experience, likeability, loyalty to the Clintons or whatever.

being layed on people who have every right to make their decision in a free society without being impuned with harsh words harking back to slave days.

Jim, do you think there is anything wrong for a person to say that he/she won't vote for a candidate because of his/her race or gender?

Just a yes/no question.

There is more to their answer than "...because they are black ..."

However, when their main concer is that aspect, then I have to say the person has some sort of problem.

This is a free country, and people have the right to be racist, sexist, homophobes, and whatever they want... however, I have to question the judgement of people who put race, sex or sexual orientation as their top criterion to judge someone's ability to perform some sort of job...

Don't you think?

Whether they judge him unelectable on race or unelectable based on his resume and talent, it is a valid opinion becuase it is their opinion. That doesn't mean I agree with it.

Still, we get each other's points, and that's good.

If you are black, and you say you won't support Obama because the country won't elect a black man, then you are being an obstacle to the advancement of your own community. Just like if a black person said in 1950: "We should not march against Jim Crow, because that's the way things are". Same thing here.

Not supporting Obama because he's black and "he can't win" says more about your vision of race than anything else.

I'm debating the point you make. When I say "your vision", I'm refering to "one's vision", not YOURS in particular, which in reality I don't care about.

Not.

no need to get defensive or anything. I respect your support for Senator Clinton, and I don't think Lowery's point has anything to do with her.

I would love to hear your take on the social and psychological phenomenon Lowery is talking about, but if you prefer not to comment is fine.

I see someone telling a predominantly black audience that to not vote for Obama is to have a slave mentality. My take, and it didn't change each time I read it. Seems clear to me.

No matter the social and psychological phenomenon, if the bottom line is to vote for a candidate based on race or gender, or any reason other than issues and capability, to me it is racist and/or sexist.

That is inescapable to me.

And hopefully we will be able to have more civil discussions in the future.

Sorry, I just don't.

To future discussions, with honest opinions always.

does that make him/her a black militant?

that person is either a sexist or, if we are talking about a woman saying that, a woman who doesn't have much faith in her own possibilities in life.

It's like saying to a black kid or a girl: "Hey, forget about saying you wanna be president when you group, because it can't happen."

in your arguments.

Goal Elect a Democrat

1. Choose a candidate that has positions and qualifications you can live with
2. Judge their chances to win by whatever means you think are relevant
3. vote accordingly

Please stop with the guilt trips.

there is a perfect logic, which has little to do with who's actually the best candidate. Again, if a white Democrat says: "I won't support Obama because he's black, and...", the guy is a racist. If a black person says the same thing, then the person has a serious self-hatred problem. I'm using my own family as an example, and I've heard several "black leaders" saying that they won't "fool" themselves because America won't elect a black president. Same thing with a man or a woman that would not support Hillary Clinton because she's a woman. There is a problem with that logic.

I honestly think you think I'm trying to do some spin against supporters of Hillary Clinton here, and honestly, I'm talking about racial issues here, not even politics.

And what the hell do you mean with a guilt trip? I've never had one.

on your terms.


Look, you are setting this up as if the final result doesn't matter in the GE. Just the vote for nomination matters. That is bullshit.

I understand your perspective, and yes, what should matters is who can win the GE. True. Sadly, for many voters, race, gender, religion, and other stuff has more impact on their vote than winning the GE.

the fact is that there is more than his race to consider as far as his chances go.

I agree with you.

I'm not agaisnt Obama 'cuz he's black.

And that is exactly what the OP is based on.

Race and gender should NOT be a motivation, or at least the main motivation, to support or NOT to support a candidate, but in many cases it is. The OP is saying that many blacks that are not supporting Obama are doing so because of race, and he's calling them on it.

I think we are on the same page. You think Hillary is the best candidate based on her record, I think Obama is the best candidate because of his message and vision for America. I feel his race and her gender are a plus because of what their election would represent.

Katz is not talking about YOU. And while it's wonderful that your vote is not based on race or gender, your approach is not universal.

There are many people black and white who are NOT voting for Obama or Clinton because of race and gender, regardless of the basis for your vote for or against either of them. And there ARE black people who are not supporting Obama specifically because they think a black man can't win and they don't want to take the chance. That's a fact. And Rev. Lowery, a man who is deeply rooted in the black community and knows from whence he speaks, understands this and is addressing this.

Normally, this kind of "straight talk" would never go beyond a small circle of people since the news media usually has absolutely no interest in anything that most black people say about any topic, unless it's something that can be spun a negative stereotype. But with Obama in the campaign, some of the dynamic has changed and the media is falling all over themselves to talk about race. Unfortunately, they haven't bothered to try to learn anything beyond sound bytes and knee jerk, shallow, ill-informed opinions and taglines ("playing the race card," "injecting race into the campaign," "transcending race," "electability," etc.), so their late-breaking coverage of such things grossly distorts the issue.

Bottom line - there ARE black people who won't vote for Obama because he's black - not because they are racist, but because they believe that he won't ever get a fair shot and they don't want to be disappointed again. And, given that there are plenty of white people who won't vote for Obama - not because they are racist, but because, like those black folk, they believe he can't win (or in the popular parlance, "he's not electable.") - that viewpoint among blacks can't be discounted as bizarre.

Rev. Lowery was talking to those people who feel that way, not to you.

And doing a fine job of it!

that's why I'm still in it.

But it needs to be done. We can't get them all, but I'm always hoping that we can reach even just a few.