"So Democratic audiences are often surprised when I tell them I don't consider George Bush...

IndianaJones

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Thu Jan-17-08 10:52 AM
Original message

"So Democratic audiences are often surprised when I tell them I don't consider George Bush...

a bad man, and that I assume he and members of his Administration are trying to do what they think is best for the country."

Obama

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TwilightGardener

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Thu Jan-17-08 10:53 AM
Response to Original message

1. Obama is a master politician. He can disagree without demonizing. That's

how you unite the country. God bless him.

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Kittycat

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Thu Jan-17-08 10:54 AM
Response to Original message

2. I think in George's mind, that is likely true.

He's a very simple man, bent on his own interests - obviously raised in a bubble by that nutbag mother of his. You can't help but think his logic is skewed.

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robbedvoter

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #2

14. "I won against peace and prosperity" he said in 2000 privately (in germany)

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lurky

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Thu Jan-17-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #14

55. I hadn't heard that.

Clearly he took it as a mandate to make war and poverty.

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smiley_glad_hands

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Thu Jan-17-08 10:55 AM
Response to Original message

3. Yeah, more like whats best for them and people like them.

Obama doesnt get it, it appears. Dunno if i want to vote for him now if he wins the nomination if its going to be more of the same.

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Captain Hilts

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Thu Jan-17-08 10:55 AM
Response to Original message

4. Nancy Pelosi got fried on DU for saying something similar. nt

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LandOLincoln

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #4

10. No kidding?

What a surprise. :eyes:

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rodeodance

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #4

13. I do recall that, yes I do.

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redqueen

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #4

16. Yeah...

I guess it's different this time.

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calico1

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #16

25. George Bush, Reagan okay,

Bill and Hillary Clinton evil and to the right of Attila the Hun. I can't believe some of the stuff I read on this board. :eyes:

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redqueen

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #25

26. I guess it's "strategy" for some?

:shrug:

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tandot

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #4

29. I remember that. She received a "virtual stoning" from some DUers for saying that.

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terisan

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Thu Jan-17-08 10:56 AM
Response to Original message

5. I don't like it when Obama characterizes Democratic audiences, even indirectly, as haters.

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mwb970

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Thu Jan-17-08 10:57 AM
Response to Original message

6. I wonder.

The things bush and cheney do and say have been so destructive to America for so long that it's very hard to believe that these horrible misjudgments are "best for the country" in their minds.

I think they do what is best for themselves and their rich, powerful friends, and that's it. The rest of us be damned.

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LibDemAlways

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Thu Jan-17-08 10:57 AM
Response to Original message

7. Can Obama possibly mean that? He doesn't think Bush is

"a bad man?" Where has he been the last eight years?

That statement is just ridiculous.

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Skip Intro

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #7

18. Just becasue he said it does not mean he means it.

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redqueen

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #18

27. But still... why? Who could he possibly be pandering to with that one?

How many independents still like bush?

What's the point of this?

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CrispyQ

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #18

35. And who does that remind me of?

SCOTUS . . . SCOTUS . . . SCOTUS

That is what will get me to the polls in '08 - nothing else.

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LibDemAlways

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #18

36. If he means it, he's delusional. If he doesn't mean it, he's

lying. Either way it was a stupid thing to say.

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yellowcanine

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #7

21. I don't consider Bush a bad man either. Incompetent, narcissistic, bullying, antiintellectual,

sophomoric, and uneducated - yes, but bad - no. He actually thinks he is doing the right thing, I am sure.

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donsu

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #21

31. smirk is a thief and murderer --- did you forget?

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LibDemAlways

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #31

37. Hell, yeah. He's a war criminal. He sanctions torture. His

Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 11:41 AM by LibDemAlways

policies have caused who knows how many deaths. He's been at the forefront of shredding the Constitution and robbing the American people of their rights. He ignored the victims of Katrina. He's stolen elections. Jeez, what more does he have to do in order to be considered "bad"?

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yellowcanine

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #37

42. We can't actually prove all of that. I think he is a bad president, yes, and he may have in fact

committed crimes, I don't know and our system of justice makes it difficult to find out when it comes to presidents. But even if I accept most of what you say (and I do), can I say Bush is a "bad man"? For me intent is pretty important and I still think he probably thinks he is doing the right thing. Does that mean I think he is seriously deluded? Yes. I also think he is certainly the worst president in my lifetime and a good candidate for worst president of all time - though he has some serious competition in the nineteenth century.

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LibDemAlways

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Thu Jan-17-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #42

44. I don't think you can knowingly start an unproved war based on

a bunch of lies and not have an evil intent. I don't think you can eat birthday cake and enjoy yourself at a fundraiser while people are drowning on your watch and think you are doing the right thing.

I'm a lot less willing to give Bush the benefit of the doubt than you are, but I'm probably also a lot more cynical.

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yellowcanine

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Thu Jan-17-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #44

45. I am still operating under the premise that Bush is actually not that smart. Shrewd, yes. But not

smart enough to actually plan the screwed upped mess that is the Bush administration. From day 1 he has been manipulated by the neocons, most particularly Dick Cheney. What Presidential candidate, however evil or not, would accept as VP someone who had nominated themselves? Even Tricky Dick Nixon would never have done that - and in terms of evil intent - I think there is plenty of evidence for it in that man - though he was actually a fairly good president compared to Bush. There are/were evil people in the Bush administration and Bush has listened to them. I would list Cheney as the number one person on that list and maybe Condi Rice as the number two.

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gulliver

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Fri Jan-18-08 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #21

63. "thinks he is doing the right thing" means he isn't bad?

I don't think so. You have to care about the country and other people enough to double-check and triple-check what you think is the right thing. Then you have watch for your actions to go wrong, admit when they do, and alter course or make amends. Bush has done nothing but hide his motives, his mistakes, and the questionable actions of his underlings behind a stone wall and an ever-increasing pile of twisted bullshit. He is a bad man if there is such a thing. Tremendous damage to the country. No remorse. Evidence of concealment... Bad man.

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Demeter

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Thu Jan-17-08 10:59 AM
Response to Original message

8. Denial Is Not Just a GOP Trait

This isn't good politics, this isn't good leadership, this is either purely cynical or unbelievably naive. In any case, I don't want as president anyone who could publicly say such a lie to the American public for any reason whatsoever.

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robbedvoter

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:01 AM
Response to Original message

9. he even called him "efficient" in the last debate - just remembered

it's not even strategically smart - 97% in NH hate bush according to exit poll - just who is Obama catering to here?
Stealing elections, looting the treasury for for his cronies, war profiteering - how can even he thing this is good for the country?

"I won against peace and prosperity" he told someone in Germany after the 2000 steal.

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Frances

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:02 AM
Response to Original message

11. Is Obama appealing to the 30 something percent of people

who support Bush?

Or was this statement in the context of how Obama will CHANGE the things Bush has done?

If it wasn't, then I have a problem with Obama. And I had almost decided to vote for him because I was hoping he'd unite the country.

I don't want him to unite the country by rehabilitating Reagan and Bush. If he is going to speak kindly of presidents, what about a good word for FDR? for Lyndon Johnson whose support of the Civil Rights Act cost the Democrats the South and gave us Reagan? for Jimmy Carter whose work on energy independence was overthrown by Reagan?

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robbedvoter

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #11

15. More like 3% - if NH exit poll is an indication. GOP candidates hide from him!

They all scream "change"!

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CJCRANE

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:02 AM
Response to Original message

12. "I assume

he and members of his Administration are trying to do what they think is best for the country".

Rule #1: Never assume anything in a business or political environment.

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girl_interrupted

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #12

23. Any president who can sit on his ass and watch his own countrymen

drown and die of starvation and thirst like Bush did during Katrina, is for lack of a better word(which would be obscene), a "bad man". Bush rushed to save a brain dead Terri Sciavo, but hurricane victims? Nope. But Obama doesn't think bush is a bad man? Guess that's why he & Oprah didn't make a big deal of it. And sending young troops off to war ill equipped, understaffed, with no post war plans, is I guess not a "biggie" in Obama's book either. Wonder if Obama, as bush did, think that rats, and roaches and mold at Walter Reed, was "supporting" the troops, too.

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robbedvoter

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #23

33. Going to bed at 10 , evening of 9.11 - also shows lotsa care and concern right there

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NJSecularist

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:06 AM
Response to Original message

17. I'm beginning to lose respect for Obama

Obama is trying to bite off more than he can chew. In the end, he's going to alienate his following, a good portion of the left and a great portion of the far left.

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redqueen

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:07 AM
Response to Original message

19. What in God's name is he trying to do here?

Bush's approval ratings are where now?

:wtf:

:crazy:

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OneBlueSky

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:08 AM
Response to Original message

20. what an asinine thing to say . . . n/t

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Maven

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:12 AM
Response to Original message

22. To paraphrase his idol Ronnie

There he goes again.

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MNDemNY

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:13 AM
Response to Original message

24. Gotta get the "idiot" vote.

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donsu

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:22 AM
Response to Original message

28. Obama must eat happy pills

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Maven

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:24 AM
Response to Original message

30. Obama: Bush is "likeable, shrewd and disciplined"

http://www.time.com/time/2007/candidates_books/obama

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gulliver

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #30

62. Anyone who doesn't consider Bush, unlikable, half-witted, and...

...reckless is a fool. Very disappointing for Obama to kiss Bush's ass like that...

I've had my fill of likable. I want real, not phony.

Obama looked into Bush's soul I guess.

Very, very disappointing. Obama moves to third choice for me, distant third. No Democratic leader who says Bush is likable is likable. Obama built up Bush.

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FreepFryer

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:26 AM
Response to Original message

32. This is an ironic tactic. By saying this he's making 2 statements directed at 2 audiences.

Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 11:27 AM by FreepFryer

For the 28%'ers, his message is not meant ironically - he's trying to gain a slim margin of support from what is, in essence, the fascist voting bloc of the U.S. by pandering to their Fuhrer.

For his Dem constituents, when he supports Bush or makes positive statements about Bush, his subtext is noticeably ironic:

1. "I don't consider George Bush a bad man" = "Lots of people consider Bush a bad man."

2. "trying to do what they think is best for the country" = "they are incompetent"

I won't be voting for Obama in the primary, but I consider this message of his to be very effective politics.

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CJCRANE

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Thu Jan-17-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #32

49. Obama is being diplomatic

which is no bad thing.

And I've noticed the one thing that angers Bush-Cheney the most is assigning bad motives to them. You can say they're incompetent or they've made decisions you don't agree with.

But the minute someone implies Bush-Cheney are psychopaths or there's something mentally wrong with them then the full force of the RW spinmachine goes into character assassination mode.

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FreepFryer

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Thu Jan-17-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #49

50. I agree - and that's quite a 'red flag'. The Nazis tolerated dissent, but not character attacks.

People who openly ridiculed (not criticized) the nascent Nazi leadership wound up in the jails first... since ridicule is generally more effective as a means of gaining popular support, it has more meaning (and causes more fear) for them than criticism.

These guys are classic, classic Nazi playbook-following morons.

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tandot

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:32 AM
Response to Original message

34. Why does he feel he needs to say something positive about that incompetent idiot?

Bush and Cheney did what they thought was best for them, big corporations, and their cronies.

How about stating how bad their decisions and policies were for this country and the world instead of kissing Bush's ass?

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IndianaJones

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Thu Jan-17-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #34

46. pander. nt.

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IronLionZion

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:40 AM
Response to Original message

38. So where's the context? Why not post the whole speech? nt

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IndianaJones

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #38

39. Its his book, which I'm sure most Obama supporters own. Not a lot of them on this thread.

Maybe you can look it up and type the page.

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Bodhi BloodWave

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Thu Jan-17-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #39

53. Which book and when was it written?

Also thats a danged broad brush your using on most Obama supporters in post 51

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IndianaJones

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Thu Jan-17-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #53

56. The Audacity of Hope. I highly recommend it. nt.

Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 05:11 PM by IndianaJones

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arthritisR_US

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:49 AM
Response to Original message

40. I would like to know what his definition of a good man is then! n/t

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Rageneau

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Thu Jan-17-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message

41. I consider Bush to be a bad man and Obama to be a very naive one.

We need a heavyweight, not a light weight. We need a fighter, not a lover. We need a smart cookie, not a fortune cookie. We need someone suspicious and cynical, not trusting and gullible. We need someone who carries a knife and will use it, if needed.

The Republicans want nothing better than to run against -- and if they lose, govern against -- some fool who wants to play nice-nice with this bunch of bloodthirsty pirates.

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Frances

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Thu Jan-17-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #41

43. I agree that we need a fighter

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IndianaJones

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Thu Jan-17-08 02:56 PM
Response to Original message

47. kick for the Obamatons. nt.

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leftynyc

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Thu Jan-17-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #47

48. Where are they all anyhow?

Strange how empty of Obama supporters this thread is.

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IndianaJones

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Thu Jan-17-08 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #48

51. Don't know...marginalizing gays in another thread maybe? nt.

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BarackBucks

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Thu Jan-17-08 04:01 PM
Response to Original message

52. Barack just doesn't want to get into it

He is trying to stay extremely positive and I think that is good in the long run.

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Catherine Vincent

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Thu Jan-17-08 04:47 PM
Response to Original message

54. That sounds like a Clinton quote. nt

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tishaLA

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Thu Jan-17-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message

57. But for some DUers, You're either with him or you're against him

You're either with him or you're against him. Take the poor logic of your enemy and make it your own.

*sigh*

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IndianaJones

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Thu Jan-17-08 07:22 PM
Response to Original message

58. kick in memory of Ronald Reagan...brother rat. nt.

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IndianaJones

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Thu Jan-17-08 10:09 PM
Response to Original message

59. kick for good intentions Bush. nt.

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Avalux

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Thu Jan-17-08 10:10 PM
Response to Original message

60. So? Hillary thinks Bush is charming and charismatic.

She has a good relationship with him. Pot calling the kettle black, don't you think?

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kelligesq

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Thu Jan-17-08 10:50 PM
Response to Original message

61. Kick for the GOP & Republican Party

:banghead:

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