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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 12:05 PM
Original message
"If you work in this country you should not be poor"
Edited on Sat Jan-19-08 12:10 PM by MH1
Friday night, Obama was scheduled to speak at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas campus. Even before he arrived, students were doing circus tricks, acrobatically spinning giant Obama placards like batons. One man drove a beat up pick up truck, on which was fastened a billboard with the name “Obama” spelled out in flashing Christmas lights.

The welcome was raucous, and Obama didn’t miss a beat. “All across the country what you hear are stories of struggle and of hardship,” he said to crowd of 500.

While most of his and other candidates’ suggestions have been for the middle class, Obama gave a nod to the lower rungs.

He said he would take tax breaks away from companies that ship American jobs overseas. And he would ensure that raise the minimum wage “every year” to keep pace with inflation.

“If you work in this country you should not be poor,” he said, to deafening cheers.


Damn, when will Obama ever come out with any specific policy proposals?

oops, forgot link:
http://www.thestar.com/USElection/article/295594
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. WTF. Obama just said he'd raised minimum wage. Don't you know
minimum wage jobs catapult people out of poverty? :sarcasm:
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. "It's socialism, I tell you!"
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. Ah, Edwards has been talking about the poor
for years, and certainly since he started his Presidential campaign, both times. I'm not sure if Obama has ever had an original idea in his life.

zalinda
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Heh, just goes to show
One cannot post a purely positive post about their candidate without a baseless, substance-less attack from a follower of another candidate.

:hi:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Here:
Edited on Sat Jan-19-08 12:46 PM by ProSense
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thanks for the links! nt
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. And to address the apparent point of your attack,
I once worked for a guy who was EXCELLENT at recognizing the good ideas of others, and very effective at getting those ideas implemented.

He was the best manager, mentor, and leader I have ever worked for.

Recognizing and copying the good ideas of others is not a bad skill for a leader to have.

But to claim in an area as big and important as the issue of poverty, that Edwards has some claim to that turf or that idea, is just silly imo.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Ah, yes.. it's just "SILLY". Who else had started an institute with the sole purpose of poverty???
Hmmmm?

I'm VERY POOR, and Edwards is the ONLY one speaking for me!

Yes, I know.... I've listened hard for the others, but they don't give a rip, unless it'll temporarity boost their ratings, then they go back to business (and I mean that in the corporate sense of the word) as usual.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Is John Edwards the only one in this world who has started an institute for poverty?
And remember, he was out of a job at the time, when Obama was in the Senate.

Why did Obama pass on taking a high paying job out of law school and instead worked as a community organizer?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Oh, for gawd's sake... you talk about the "leading contenders" until I show you up on that,
then you switch.

Bait and switch.

Just like all good corporations.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Huh?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Huh, indeed. Pay attention when you want to shoot somebody down.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Not trying to shoot you down, just don't understand where you are coming from.
I don't think I mentioned "leading contenders" anywhere, either ... I gave an example of a great leader I used to work for.
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
44. Because he WANTED to end up running for President. n/t
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. It's SILLY to claim it as one leader's turf.
You should be GLAD when other people take up the issue.

Sheesh.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Astro turf isn't my game.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Then what's your problem with Obama speaking out for the poor?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. I'm waiting for him to do so.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. That was the item I quoted. Then there is his website, and other speeches.
Sorry, I am a recent Obama supporter and don't have a database of his past speeches set up.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. What other Dems has he pressured to make poverty a priority?
What cinched it for me with Edwards was when he was the only Dem to go to Connecticut and campaign for Lamont, and when Lamont came out on stage to introduce John Edwards, he (Lamont) said the first thing he needed to do was to apologize for not having made poverty a priority in his campaign, and that that would change right then.

Clearly, Edwards pressured him to speak out for poverty.

When has Obama done this?

As a person on the edge of survival because of poverty, it's a desperately important issue for me.

I realize that most muddleclass Dems don't really care all that much.

:cry:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #27
43. One of the things you can do, then, is to remind Obama and his supporters that it's IMPORTANT!
Rather than trying to convert me, which isn't going to happen, you can reach across campaigns and make *my* survival issue important to you, then to the campaign you are working for!
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. Did you see the part of his bio where in 1985 he became community organizer for the poor?
http://www.barackobama.com/learn/meet.php#meet_barack

Barack put law school and corporate life on hold after college and moved to Chicago in 1985, where he became a community organizer with a church-based group seeking to improve living conditions in poor neighborhoods plagued with crime and high unemployment.


So it looks like he's been concerned about the poor for quite a while now.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. So???? A LOT of people grew up poor, then turned on poor people once they "made it"
What is his proposal NOW?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
39. Sheeeeeesh right back atcha. I'll be glad when they actually DO "take it up"
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stravu9 Donating Member (945 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Thanks!
Me too!
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
34. What did the institute do?
It looks like it created the poverty platform Edwards is running on and employed many people Edwards wanted to keep.

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. And it looks like no matter what he does, you wouldn't like him, so why bother?
Maybe when you find yourself on the very edge of survival, like some of us, it might make a difference to you.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. Well back in 1996
he was passing REAL legislation in the very REAL Illinois that helped very REAL poor people. I really wish some of the Edwards supporters would take 15 minutes to learn the real history of these candidates before they spout this stuff about Edwards being the one true fighter for the poor. It's absurd.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
33. Obama worked as an advocate on the streets
of the South side of Chicago in the early 80s, when Edwards was still being non-political. Even in 2001, Edwards was still voting for bankruptcy bills. Obama was there with the poor making $12,000 a year for 3 years. That IS helping the poor.

Edwards is not the first person to speak of helping the poor, nor the first to speak of poverty or of 2 Americas. (I know the Kerner report spoke of the 2 America's in 1968. George McGovern, who was created the idea of food stamps spoke of the number of people hungry in the US. Were they first? I doubt it. FDR likely spoke of it and I better there's someone in the 1800s or even 1700s who did.

Obama has real activist roots that Edwards doesn't.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. Many of us can't work, do we DESERVE to be poor????
Elderly, disabled, vets who can no longer work.... do we matter????
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Good point, but at that moment he was talking about issues related to working people.
Obama wants to increase revenue into Social Security rather than cut benefits, so I don't think he is trying to say folks who can't work "deserve to be poor."

Why would you infer something he didn't say, that was unrelated to the item I quoted?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Why? Because he doesn't speak FOR ME!
I don't count in his plans, because I don't have corporate $$$ to give him.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. His stimulus plan gives YOU extra money
People on social security would also get a boost. He doesn't leave anybody out and he's the only one who doesn't.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. According to ABC, 90% of Obama's donors gave $100 or less.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. That's pretty impressive.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
36. He doesn't take money from corporate PAC
The money people say he got from corporations in the aggregate of money given by people WHO WORK FOR the corporation. When you give to a candidate the form MANDATED by law has you list the employer.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. Thanks for that clarification. nt
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. When I said he doesn't speak for *ME*, I meant poverty.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
26. Not sure what your specific issue is, but here are a couple of items
Edited on Sat Jan-19-08 02:27 PM by MH1
From Obama's website.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

Disabilities:

Plan to Empower Americans with Disabilities

“We must build a world free of unnecessary barriers, stereotypes, and discrimination .... policies must be developed, attitudes must be shaped, and buildings and organizations must be designed to ensure that everyone has a chance to get the education they need and live independently as full citizens in their communities.”

— Barack Obama



Healthcare:

# Support Americans with Disabilities: As a former civil rights lawyer, Barack Obama knows firsthand the importance of strong protections for minority communities in our society. Obama is committed to strengthening and better enforcing the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) so that future generations of Americans with disabilities have equal rights and opportunities. Obama believes we must restore the original legislative intent of the ADA in the wake of court decisions that have restricted the interpretation of this landmark legislation.

Barack Obama is also committed to ensuring that disabled Americans receive Medicaid and Medicare benefits in a low-cost, effective and timely manner. Recognizing that many individuals with disabilities rely on Medicare, Obama worked with Senator Ken Salazar (D-CO) to urge the department of health and human services to provide clear and reliable information on the Medicare prescription drug benefit and to ensure that the Medicare recipients were protected from fraudulent claims by marketers and drug plan agents.
# Improve Mental Health Care. Mental illness affects approximately one in five American families. The National Alliance on Mental Illness estimates that untreated mental illnesses cost the U.S. more than $100 billion per year. As president, Obama will support mental health parity so that coverage for serious mental illnesses are provided on the same terms and conditions as other illnesses and diseases.



Veterans:

The Problem

Wounded Troops Suffer: The Walter Reed scandal showed that we don't always provide returning service members with the care they deserve.

Veterans Budget Shortfalls: In 2005, a multi-billion dollar VA funding shortfall required Congress to step in and bail out the system.

Benefits Bureaucracy is Broken: There are currently more than 400,000 claims pending with the Veterans Benefits Administration. VA error rates have grown to more than 100,000 cases a year.

There is Shortage of Care for PTSD: Veterans are coming home with record levels of combat stress, but we are not adequately providing for them.


Barack Obama's Plan

A Sacred Trust

Barack Obama believes America has a sacred trust with our veterans. He is committed to creating a 21st Century Department of Veterans' Affairs that provides the care and benefits our nation�s veterans deserve.

* Allow All Veterans Back into the VA: One of Obama's first acts will be reversing the 2003 ban on enrolling modest-income veterans, which has denied care to a million veterans.
* Strengthen VA Care: Obama will make the VA a leader of national health care reform so that veterans get the best care possible. He will improve care for polytrauma vision impairment, prosthetics, spinal cord injury, aging, and women's health.
* Combat Homelessness among Our Nation's Veterans: Obama will establish a national "zero tolerance" policy for veterans falling into homelessness by expanding proven programs and launching innovative services to prevent veterans from falling into homelessness.
* Fight Veterans Employment Discrimination: Obama will crack down on employers who commit job discrimination against guardsmen and reservists.

Help for Returning Service Members

Obama will improve the quality of health care for veterans, rebuild the VA&rsquot;s broken benefits system, and combat homelessness among veterans.

* Ensure a Seamless Transition: Obama will demand that the military and the VA coordinate to provide a seamless transition from active duty to civilian life.
* Fully Fund VA Medical Care: Barack Obama will fully fund the VA so it has all the resources it needs to serve the veterans who need it, when they need it. Obama will establish a world-class VA Planning Division to avoid future budget shortfalls.
* Fix the Benefits Bureaucracy: Obama will hire additional claims workers, and improve training and accountability so that VA benefit decisions are rated fairly and consistently. He also will transform the paper benefit claims process to an electronic one to reduce errors and improve timeliness.

Improved Mental Health Treatment

Obama will improve mental health treatment for troops and veterans suffering from combat-related psychological injuries.

* Improve Mental Health Treatment: Obama will improve mental health care at every stage of military service. He will recruit more health professionals, improve screening, offer more support to families and make PTSD benefits claims fairer.
* Improve Care for Traumatic Brain Injury: Obama will establish standards of care for Traumatic Brain Injury, the signature injury of the Iraq war.
* Expand Vet Centers: Obama will expand and strengthen Vet Centers to provide more counseling for vets and their families.

Barack Obama's Record

Record of Advocacy: As a member of the U.S. Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs, Obama passed legislation to improve care and slash red tape for our wounded warriors recovering at places like Walter Reed. He passed laws to help homeless veterans and offered an innovative solution to prevent at-risk veterans from falling into homelessness. Obama led a bipartisan effort in the Senate to try to halt the military's unfair practice of discharging service members for having a service-connected psychological injury. He fought for fair treatment of Illinois veterans' claims and forced the VA to conduct an unprecedented outreach campaign to disabled veterans with lower than-average benefits. Obama passed legislation to stop a VA review of closed PTSD cases that could have led to a reduction in veterans' benefits. He passed an amendment to ensure that all service members returning from Iraq are properly screened for traumatic brain injuries. He introduced legislation to direct the VA and Pentagon to fix disjointed records systems and improve outreach to members of the National Guard and Reserves.


edited to add link and fix formatting
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
42. Absolutely NOTHING about low-income housing!
There are 9 million of us who need low-income housing.

There are 6 million units available. (Many, if not most, substandard.)

Clearly, at any given time, there are 3 million people homeless for lack of low-income housing.

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
35. Bad logic - saying all (group A) should not be poor
doesn't mean all (not group A) should be.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. Walk in my shoes, dear, and THEN we'll talk about "logic"
:crazy:

People who can't have compassion when someone talks about being poor and can only spout "logic" have a few critical things missing.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
15. Why should he bother, you wouldn't read them anyway....
And, FWIW, he has come out with specific policies.

How about repealing the Bush Tax cuts for people making over $250,000?
How about excluding the poorest working Americans from paying FICA? (how could this NOT help the working poor?)
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Heh, I guess I should have included the sarcasm smiley?
I thought it was obvious from the section I bolded...

The Edwards tag team on this thread got it...

Sorry!

:hi:
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Sorry, I'm testy today.
Nerves, you know. This wouldn't be the first time lately that I've seen someone quote something that completely disproves their point.

The supporters of a *certain* candidate are particularly fond of doing so.

My bad.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. That's okay!
I completely understand!

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