Can Obama or Clinton win the GE?

That's a very serious question we have to ask ourselves.

Both are flawed, vulnerable candidates who have a lot in their backgrounds that can be used to defeat them. I'm sure it will be no surprise to anyone here when their financial backing disappears after the primary is over.

They both are incumbents in a highly unpopular Democratic Congress, that's a lot of baggage to carry on top of their other problems.

Is it realistic to expect either of them to be able to carry the GE by a significant margin?

Edit: This isn't a cheerleading thread. I need you to explain why either of the two will prevail against the odds.

and a Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton ticket would kick some major ASS!

how will they overcome their high negatives? How will they overcome the dirt that will suddenly surface that's been kept hidden during the primaries?

neither can beat McCain but the others GOPers all really bad GE candidates.

How will they overcome the problems they'll have - the ones that they're not having to deal with now?

I want a brokered convention ~ with Gore getting the nomination.

or Obama after all the primaries. So, the question should be, which one has a better chance of winning a general election, if there to be a democratic president.

there's nothing inevitable about 3 primaries.

sorry to say. Not particularly my choices either.

go figure...

The Huckster is on the opposite ticket, or evangelicals stay home... the Huckster as we say in the business is the Albatross...

Our candidates are like Lincoln, Wasington and Jefferson by comparison.

Unlike some of our own candidates.

The GOP has the power, money and control of the news media to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Republicans vote Republican. Period. That's what Dems don't get.

The also have far fewer governorships than they did in 2000 or 2004. That means we hold the election leverage - Ted Strickland is not Ken Blackwell.

Many moderate Republicans want to be able to vote for Obama, same with most of the independants.

Will the Democratic Party shoot themselves in the foot again by nominating the most divisive candidate running (Hillary)?

Probably.........

uguu

this isn't a cheerleading thread.

uguu

up after the primaries, you really don't know the first thing about this process. And neither of them is any more flawed than JE, who clearly wouldn't be able to win a general.

I live in Ohio and I know how quickly the corporations and GOP can quickly swing money away from campaigns. I have little doubt that's what will happen after the primaries are over.

n/t

Please explain.

Hillary's negatives are way high and Repugs would turn out in droves to vote against her

coupled with

Obama's already running a General Election campaign, reaching out to Independents and disgruntled Repugs.

Polls bear out the fact that Obama does better in head-to-head matchups against the Repugs at the moment.

I think both of them can.

Sorry, but I'm done assuming a DC Dem ordained candidate can win the GE. Kerry already proved that one wrong.

Obama has thus far shown the ability to attract Independents and mobilize African-Americans

Clinton has not attracted Independents and has alienated African-American voters. Both groups will likely stay home election day, although a large number of Independents will vote GOP instead, particularly if McCain is the nominee.

That's reality, folks.

I disagree that Clinton alienated the AA base. Of course many people here on DU were expressing made-up fake outrage. The AAs have always liked Clinton and they will come home after the primaries are over when they are no longer torn between Clinton and an AA. That must have been a hard call for them and I don't blame them for wanting the first black man to have a chance of being president. But they didn't stop liking/respecting Clinton.
That's just a wish on some peoples hearts...but it's not true! The pastors in churches will correct any negative attitude toward Clinton. Just you wait and see. That is IF she wins the primaries.

and that's about 50/50 at this point... but he has to move by feb/march

n/t

I've been very pessimistic about our chances for the white house in 08 for over a year because of Hillary. I've been kind of jumping around candidates to support, and finally settled on Obama as an "anybody but Hillary" candidate, plus I think he appeals far more to independents we need to win a general election.

If McCain wins South Carolina later today then our chances of winning the white house are pretty much over in my book, and we'll be saying hello 8 years of McCain rule. McCain will cream Hillary in the general election, Hillary has way too much baggage, including a consistent unfavorable rating of around 50%.

I will admit though that Obama certainly has his weaknesses in a general election, but like I said my support for him is more an "anybody but Hillary who stands a chance at the nomination" support.

...will look like. *shudder*

This isn't sour grapes people. This is reality.

Otherwise I'm afraid the party will be so fragmented by the time this is over we'll become an easy target, even from the weak republican field.

I'm getting a sickly feeling listening to Romney right now. He almost sounds normal. And Bloomberg could sweep up the anti Clinton/Obama crowd also.

I hope I'm just being paranoid.

Who would have thought that an abundance of good candidates would result in a weakended ticket.

whoever wins has to overcome the media attacks and convince swing voters. Neither Obama or Clinton is strong in that area.

is there another planet i can move to...i would like to live out the rest of my life with a job and health care

at polls on www.realclearpolitics.com both always fare well in mock general election matchups....In addition, Hillary should be able to pick up a state like Arkansas, & perhaps a couple other southern ones as well...

Look, in a perfect world John Edwards would be the 44th. POTUS....But if HRC is our nominee, I'm DAMN sure going to vote for her (hell, I'll probably send her a donation to).....

ANY, & I mean ANY of our 3 candiates for POTUS are light years better than the Republicans, so I hope that all DU'ers will support the Democratic nominee in November....

Too much is at stake this election to stay home if your candiate of choice is not the nominee...

:rant:

I really do not believe Hillary can win the GE. Some folks wouldn't vote for a woman, but a lot more wouldn't vote for that particular woman. She is quite polarizing; too many people can't stand her, spanning the entire political spectrum. And some do not want the Clintons in the WH again.

As for Obama, I don't think he could win the GE either, though my feeling here isn't as strong as it is about Hillary. The main reason is that I don't know how large a percentage of the electorate is comprised of hardcore racists. They will be fighting him strongly, and their words against him can sway folks who are racist but don't realize it, as well as folks who have an uneasiness that they can't put their finger on. With an election this important, mainly because of the serious things going on around the world and the state that our current administration has left our country in, I would not want to risk having a nominee who is not close to a slam-dunk in the GE. I don't believe that Obama fits into that category, though at this point, I don't know if anyone does.

I think either would have a hard time against McCain, personally.

McCain's experience would give him an edge. They both have targeted the independents -- which will split in John's favor. Obama's anti-war stance will help him as will a good turn-out on the youth vote. However if his message relies strictly on a strong anti-war stance sadly he risks looking weak on security. Further Obama has yet to be thoroughly vetted by the press -- there will only be a downside once that starts happening. Not that Obama has any skeletons in his closet but you know the media and how the RW works -- they will manufacture some where none exists. Obama would have an easier time with someone like Huckabee or Mittens.

Whether you agree or disagree Hillary is considered by the larger population, and those in Washington to be very knowledgeable on issues security, defense, foreign affairs. She also has a strong domestic agenda and a proven track record on social-economic issues. She has been thoroughly vetted -- nobody on this continent has had more shit thrown their way. At the very least you must respect her for that. Lastly, Hillary has tapped into a new pool of voters that has largely not been a factor in previous elections -- a swell of womens' votes that appears to be a growing force in every state. The Clintons are very experienced and tireless workers with respect to ground campaigns and that is what it is going to take to tap into this potential pool of voters. Campaign ads don't cut it with this crowd ... its person-to-person contact that counts. The data from NH and NV are cases in point. Assuming that the Dems retain the 2004 state wins, I predict Hillary will take Arkansas and more importantly Florida -- a state with a higher than average elderly female population. The demographics of Florida point strongly in Hillary's favor.

Don't get me wrong -- It won't be easy for either Obama or Hillary -- elections never are. What would make it easier is if a 3rd party candidate such as Bloomberg, or Paul run and siphon off some of the some of the disgruntled Republicans who could never bring themselves to vote Dem.

Who ever is the winning primary candidate they will most assuredly need the help of the entire Dem party to win the presidency. We all need to give that point more thought.