Hillary is using Obama's CNN ad as an excuse to break the Pledge and campaign in Florida

This pledge was made to the Early Primary States.

Before running the ad, Obama received approval from the only Early-State remaining:

"Though the Clinton campaign convened a conference call with several early-state supporters, Obama's claims the stamp of approval approval from the only early-state chair still in play, South Carolina's Carol Fowler.

“Both national cable networks told us it would be impossible for us to run advertising nationally that excluded only Florida. For that reason we consulted with the South Carolina Democratic Party Chair Carol Fowler who told us unequivocally she did not consider this to be in violation of pledge made to the early states,” said Obama spokesman Bill Burton."

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After the ad ran Hillary's campaign issued a statement accusing Obama of breaking the pledge and ending with this:

"Senator Obama’s flagrant disregard for the pledge that he signed is disturbing and calls the integrity of the pledge into question."

Here, they make the case that the pledge is no longer binding.

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Now we hear this from Hillary's adviser Howard Wolfson:

“The ban is off – the agreement is off,” Wolfson said.

He listened for a beat as the Congresswoman told him of her desire to invite Hillary for some last-minute appearances in Florida, and he said, “Then you can say, ‘I hope that Senator Clinton comes down here.’”

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

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All this comes after a report last week that Hillary was already planning Campaign events in Florida.

http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/obama-camp-suggests-clinton-will-break-no-florida-pledge-2008-01-15.html

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It is now clear that a Hillary Florida Campaign has been in the works for a while,
and they are using Obama's ad as the excuse to remove themselves from the Early-State Pledge.

Or is that considered "crying"?

A national ad on a cable channel is different, I would think, than one that targets Florida specifically. And now Hillary will campaign in Florida at an event. So she counters a national ad the whole country will see with campaigning in Florida specifically.

I don't understand calling responses from one campaign or another "crying". They're all "crying" then, I suppose, just as each of us is "crying" when we respond to each others threads.

You'd expect them to keep silent?

“there are signs – despite Senator Clinton’s public pledge to the contrary – that she may be planning to campaign in the state..." Doesn't say she was planning to campaign.

If I understand correctly, they are allowed to fundraise. The charge is that she MIGHT perhaps maybe have come close to campaigning or something, not that she planned to.

If you can't see the chain of events leading up to a Hillary Campaign in Florida,
I cannot help you.

"All this comes after a report last week that Hillary was already planning Campaign events in Florida."

The report does not state that.

The delegates won't count...isn't that correct?

I thought I read that the party made a consensus decision that the
votes in Fla and Michigan won't count.

I can easily see some funny business happening with regard to those
two states. The delegates might not count now, but watch some landmark
lawsuit decision come down and change everything.

Then suddenly, delegates from Michigan and Florida will count. Certain
parties will benefit. Others will be screwed into oblivion.

It won't come as a surprise to me, AT ALL.

I really have no idea. :shrug:

The issue is about integrity and sticking to their pledge, I believe. I don't really know if the national buy is against the rules or not, because it may have to do with spending money IN the state...

I think they should leave it to the DNC to decide if it's not already clear in their agreement.

I was watching either CNN or MSNBC, and I saw an Obama ad in IOWA. Hello...he didn't
spend money recently for ads in Iowa, any more than he recently spent money on ads in
Florida.

I imagine that his media buys for CNN/MSNBC in SC maybe---spill over into other states
and markets. Possibly, if you buy ads on those cable networks, they are seen in other
areas.

There is no evidence that Obama "didn't stick to his pledge" and I think any comments
that Hillary makes about going into the state (or about Obama's ads) are premature
and a bit reactionary.

We should wait for the facts, and Hillary should too, before she heads her tour bus
toward the Magic Kingdom.

And I don't know whether any rules were spelled out about that.

I agree Clinton should stay out until/unless the DNC weighs in.

these are the fine points of political manuvering. This is where EXPERIENCE counts. Some have it and some don't.

Don't make claims of UNFAIR.... Hillary is running for President. She wants the job. These are the same sort of political skills it takes to do the job...short of private armies and the rest of the BushCo tools.

Experience counts...and Hillary has the experience. Since the three leaders are all attorneys, why can't two of them figure out what to do aside from whining and crying.

...and I'm an Obama supporter.

Politics is not the ballet. It's hardball...on steroids...and you must
anticipate that some will pull complicated maneuvers.

I tend to be naive, and I asked my husband if he thought that some "funny
business" might happen to eventually make the Dem delegates count in Michigan
and Florida. After all, Hillary was on the Michigan ballot and the other candidates
weren't. Anyone think that oddity was inconsequential? Hello? I see a major vulnerability
for Obama on this issue.

I'm not saying these tactics are moral or just. Clearly, they are not. However, they
are legal and will be legal when this is sorted out.

My husband's answer was to look at me with complete disbelief and say, "OF COURSE
some funny business will happen! Gee, do you think Hillary Clinton just fell
off the turnip truck? The funny business will come in the form of legal decisions.
Of course that will happen!"

Yikes. I think he's right.

Expect this, Obama people.

That's your proof?

Sorry, but if your assertion is based on a bunch of "might" and "may" statements made by people within Obama's campaign, that isn't proof of anything other than rumor-mongering.

In fact, Obama had a fundraiser there in Nov.

Don't tell me you can't see what they are for.

Big difference between last November and the last days before the Election.

the proof is that in a few days she will appear down in Florida

what will you say then?

Good one.

Where does it say she's going to Florida to campaign for certain?

Lots of "mays" and "mights". Yeah, that's proof. She might show up. Or she might not.

Let me know when she shows up and actually campaigns. Until then, your outrage is nothing but unsubstantiated blather.

or will you conveniently forget your previous statements?

Why would I do that?

.......It is now clear that a Hillary Florida Campaign has been in the works for a while,
and they are using Obama's ad as the excuse to remove themselves from the Early-State Pledge.

Obama received the approval of the only Early-State left, South Carolina, before running the ad.

Because the Cable News Stations it is too difficult for them to run ads in all other states but exclude Florida.

Seems like a reasonable reason for me.

Media is in it for the money and advertisers do not waste a penny where it will do no good. They target ad space right down to the each city cable company as anyone who has ever watched cable TV knows. How many times have you seen the first fragment of a commercial only to have it suddenly switch to a local ad?

Their motto is: Let no 15 second space go unsold. No one is going to pay for time in a locality where it will do them no good and no space is going to be wasted on ads that are not paying for that time. Believe it - those in the media know exactly how to get every penny out of every second available and how to pinpoint an ad to the consumer they want to see it.

but Obama finds it difficult to do?

Disingenuous at the least.

The big vote on February 5th requires a national advertising strategy.

she would be more in violation than he, I would think. I'm with those who question her motives in this "outrage".

This is kind of an after the fact excuse.

Just not campaign. There was a little fuss made when Obama spoke to the press outside a fundraising event.
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking

I don't particularly care, though, at this point. It's all gotten beyond me.

She doesn't need to campaign in Florida. She is going to win Florida handily and its delegates don't count anyway. These are the same reasons that Obama wouldn't waste money campaigning in Florida. It was just cheaper and more efficient to advertise nationally.

It's just ordinary primary posturing.

Obama camp suggests Clinton will break no-Florida pledge

Did you think we wouldn't click on the link to read this report which is in fact nothing but allegations from an opposing candidate?

She is the one who obviously needs Florida so badly.

it's stupid enough around here. Obama is his own worst enemy. He has a political death wish and should be on political suicide watch.

Obama lies, Obama breaks the pledge, and Hillary is the demon because she says if the pledge is off, then it's off???

I swear, I was never going to vote for Obama because he is too inexperienced, but beyond that, he disgusts me with his whining and crying, his wussy "present" votes, and above all, that fact that his supporters all appear to be THE most immature whiners, fabricators, and backdoor apologists I have EVER seen in my 20 yrs of watching politics and assisting candidates in elections.

Truly unfuckingbelievable. At what point to you Obama folks get the clue that you are really making your candidate look truly awful???

will you believe it when you see it?

Why should she be held to the pledge when he is going to break his word on it? No reason in the world he should have a free ride down there. This really takes the cake for me. Obama disgusts me.

Hillary will receive no approval for what she does.

She is trying to extricate herself from the Pledge on false premises.

Hillary is about to kick his behind..He won't know what hit him.
He's playing in the big leagues now...

He might as well have gotten the "approval" from the man in the moon.

SC is the only remaining Early-state. They approved of the ad.

supporter is about as effective as using facts with right wingers. At some point the zeal for the candidate seems to take over all reason. I have never intended to vote for Obama in the primary because I just feel he is too inexperienced. But if I was on the fence, reading the posts by his supporters here would really seal me not voting for him. I have never seen anything like this as far as volume in 29 years of watching politics. And never from a group of Democrats. It's like reality has ceased to exist for these people.

I don't see what your complaint is? You think he should be able to break the pledge, but she should still be bound to keep it?

she is going to Florida to campaign

Obama's ad was approved.
Full-on campaigning was not approved.

the pledge? Seriously, are your arguments convincing to you? This is just delusional as far as I'm concerned. Campaigning is campaigning and running ads is campaigning. If Obama wanted Clinton to honor the pledge he should have honored it himself. It's really just as simple as that. He made the decision to break the pledge, regardless of what SC says about the whole thing. It's patently ridiculous for him to think a special set of rules should apply to him.

It is the only Early-state which his ad could be seen to effect.

The SC Dem. Party approved Obama's ad.

They didn't release anyone from the pledge.
Noone has been given approval to Campaign down in Florida.

They just accepted that a National CNN ad could not be filtered from Florida,
and decided that this was not breaking the pledge.

Obama's campaign responded by saying that it is not possible to make a nationwide cable ad buy that does not include Florida.

“For that reason we consulted with … South Carolina Democratic Party Chair Carol Fowler who told us unequivocally she did not consider this to be in violation of pledge made to the early states,” Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton said in a statement.

He can come up with whatever bullshit excuse he wants, but he was the only candidate to break the pledge. All he had to do, even if his BS excuse is true, is wait until after the Florida primary to start running national ads. He could have just as easily made buys in the states he wanted to campaign in. No other candidate is breaking the pledge. And I hope they all consider Florida fair game since he has.

So she can waste more of her donors' money out there. Sort of like how she wasted money for her Senate re-election.

I'm so confused now.:-(

You're being played be the Clintons...again.

The DNC stated that candidates campaigning in states in violation of the timing provisions may not received delegates from that state. It's a May Not, and not a Shall Not, so delegates may possibly be awarded, but regardless of what the DNC decides to do with the delegates. Saying the pledge is broken doesn't authorize her to campaign there. "He did it first" doesn't authorize her to campaign.

And the DNC created the definition of campaigning, and hasn't weighed in on how they view the national cable buy.

Like I said, you Obama supporters are unfuckingbelievable, not to mention delusional.

...and would have different CONCLUSIONS written on it that you could JUMP TO.


I wasn't interpreting what does or does not constitute campaigning. If the DNC decides Obama was campaigning, he could lose his delegates even if the DNC decides to reinstate FLs delegates overall. And so would HIllary if she decides to campaign there.

Now where do you get off calling me delusional? I didn't weigh in on the TV ad. The DNC will decide if that violates the timing rules, not me, not you, and not either of the campaigns.

It is literally overflowing with whining Obama supporters that spend hours a day making excuses, splitting hairs, creating conspiracy theories, and in general coming up with the most unbelievable and ridiculous arguments to justify the pathetic actions of the Obama campaign. It's like it never stops. The GD and GDP forums are overun with it.

At some point it's got to stop. I mean it's already reached a whole new level of surreal as far as I'm concerned. Running ads in Florida is not campaigning??? Like I said, absolutely surreal.

It's quite possible that when you buy ads, you buy them in specific
packages, that go out of the targeted media market.

I saw a brand-new Obama ad in Iowa today! I watched a lot of tv during
the run-up to the caucuses and this was a new-to-me ad. We all ready caucused, so
there would be no reason for Obama to place tv ads in Iowa--unless
he's returning for another caucus that none of us know about!

Seriously...I imagine there is a simple explanation for this ad
running in Fla.

The delegates don't count...so why does any of this matter?

You can run all of the ads that you want...it will be money down
the drain.

Something is not adding up here.

split decision, the winner of the South Carolina primary would go into February 5 with the Big Mo. Now that Obama is ahead in SC by 9 points, it appears he would have that momentum. Thus, the argument over Florida has erupted. A "win" in Florida, if claimed by Hillary, as she claimed in Michigan, could offset that momentum. It's all about the public perception.

With the release of the Obama statement saying it had obtained prior permission from the DNC to purchase the cable buy in all 50 states, since Florida could not be excluded by the cable providers, and this would not be considered a violation of the earlier agreement not to campaign in Florida, it does appear that once the South Carolina primary is over, the struggle for the PR campaign as to which candidate has "won" in Florida, will openly wage.

Looks like the gloves are off.

exclude Florida. I believe that. He asked the only early state left, SC, if that's alright (must have been some type of agreement there between the early states and the candidate). SC said OK.

Seems like HRC should work with SC on whatever she does in Florida, since there is an agreement in place. If she don't, folks that believe in fair play are not going to like it. Me for one. And at the end of the day, General Election Day that is, stuff like this matters.

...and I seriously doubt he specifically bought air time
in Iowa.

We've all ready had our caucus.

Obama...needs to get out in front of this and explain it, before the
airwaves are filled with lies.

I don't doubt at all that the national networks are somehow unable to "filter out" one state for disinclusion

It really doesn't matter what Obama says. The Clintons, who were already campaigning in Fl and had already claimed a "win" in Michigan after she stayed on the ballot there, will paint him the "evildoer". Its the way they play the game.

Excuse my French, fuck them.

Not making me proud to be a Dem.

What's not making ME proud to be a Dem is that it seems like every single Obama supporter has the maturity level of a 6th grader.

It's been a tough week for Obama and his supporters like me, and I'm just frustrated and on edge. And Obama is up against 2 Clintons really, so he's outgunned. It's not that I really have anything against Clinton per se, it's just that I believe we are almost certain to lose if she's nominated. So when I see her gaining traction, it feels like we are that much closer to losing the WH.

That's exactly how I felt about Kerry, and was an early Dean supporter. But I didn't take loose of my common sense or reality when Kerry pulled ahead. Not saying you have, but some of these Obama supporters are just way over the edge of reality.

I don't agree with you about electibility, at least not so far as Obama is any more electible than Clinton. I think they both have a tough row to hoe there. It's part of the reason I would prefer Edwards, but it doesn't look like there is any way that is going to happen.

Yet, here I am -- not flipping out. :) Such is politics. You gotta roll with the punches.

I'd be happy with a Clinton presidency. My previous long shot candidate was Clark, but he was such a long shot I didn't freak out when he lost. I seem to be more emotionally invested this time around. I've been trying to channel the fortitude of the Edwards supporters.

Hillary's campaigning will not have been.

That's why she needs this smokescreen about Obama breaking the pledge.

It was a voluntary pledge and I don't think ANY candidate should have to abide by it if ANY other candidate said they would and then did not. That's just pure BS. And leave it to Obama to whine that he should get to break the pledge, but she should not. That's what he is -- a whiner.

Hillary could put an ad on CNN if she got it approved like Obama did.

However, she cannot go down to Florida and actively Campaign.

This is exactly what she plans to do, and she is using Obama's ad as smokescreen for this.

into the presidency and then she'll cheat her way all through the four years..and then it will be time for someone to step up after the country experiences what the fuck they got into again.