One thing Clinton camp should not do is spin an SC Loss as simply an AA vote

They ssay that and AA voters are gping to be livid as it would be seen as attempting to pain Obama as the AA candidate.imate

Black Talks radio would absolutely eviscerate them. Not only would they see similiar wins in AL, TN and GA onSuper Tuesday. They would lose urban AA in northern states as well....

That would be a very stupid thing to do even if it ultimately won the nomination, itmight actuall cost us the election in the fall.

But they won't have to. MSM will do it for them.

Clinton won't have to say a word. The Media will be all over that 70+% number of AA supporting Obama. He'll be labeled the candidate for AA interests by Sunday.

If I'm Hillary, I stop even trying to win AA support in SC and make a token effort of campaigning in the white areas and wait for the media to do the rest.

Americans, and will then turn around and blame HRC for it. This media we have in this country borders on the line of being just plain damn evil.

I seen a perfect example of this the other night on Larry King (CNN) after the debate.

Wolf asked BO if BO considered Bill Clinton the first black president. Towards the end of the show, there were two black guests saying HRC better not use the race card? WTF?

So the media sets up the race card with Wolfs question, gets people all riled up, and then blames HRC for using the race card.

On edit: These candidates are being played by our media, they need to be aware of it and respond forcefully then and there, on the spot, when these media types ask ignorant, leading, assumptive questions. A person has to be very quick on there feet to catch this crap, it's very hard to do.

she leads Alabama 46 to Obama's 25 and he leads Georgia by only three points, well within the margin of error.

He's more than welcome to take AL, TN and GA if she gets CA, NJ, NY, MO, AZ, CT, OK, UT, NM, AK, DL, ID and MN.

I saw NC close to nothing in two weeks time.

TN is admittedly conhecture. But counsidering how well Harold FOrd did...there is a no disposition withing the party against voting for a Black man.

University of South Alabama / Press Register
Date: 1/7-15
Alabama
Added: 1/22/08
Est. MoE = 4.3%

Quote:

Edwards, with strong connections to the state's trial lawyer community, outraised his opponents in Alabama through Sept. 30, according to federal campaign disclosure reports. However, Alabama Democrats began putting more cash into the wallets of Clinton and Obama by the end of the year.

The results of the latest Press-Register/USA survey also suggest a split among white and black voters. Thirty-nine percent of white Democrats favored Clinton, while Obama and Edwards each received 13 percent. Thirty-five percent were undecided.

Obama led among black Democrats, with 49 percent to Clinton's 18 percent. One percent chose Edwards.

Thirty-two percent of black voters were undecided.

David Lanoue, a political science professor at the University of Alabama, said those numbers reflect national trends, which suggest that Obama's name recognition has gradually improved his prospects among black voters.

"(Hillary Clinton) had superior name recognition, and there was the strong support (former President) Clinton had among the African-American community," Lanoue said. "But as Obama became better known, and it was increasingly clear he was a strong and viable candidate, I think his appeal among African-Americans has grown."

Hillary Clinton 31%
Barack Obama 28%
John Edwards 8%
Unsure 33%
Source
http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/polls/Alabama-January-2008.html

It doesn't matter, it's just black people voting for a black man. I've watched the minority vote dismissed by white candidates for years. I'm sure it's no secret to them when it happens. She's have never abandoned white women in NH.

MSM is going to spin it not as AAs voting for their own....They are going to talk about the Birthplace of the confederacy launching a Blackmand towards the WHite House. They are going talks about the conte of his character and not the color of his skin while invoking MLK. Watch.

not a credit to your candidate

Well, it's only the Indians that gave so-so the vote in MT or SD. Well, it's only the Latino vote in NM or Los Angeles. It's only the black vote in this city or that. This and that elected official don't really count because they weren't elected with the white vote, particularly the white male christian vote. Has nothing to do with my candidate. I've seen it for years and am surprised Hillary walked away from SC since it was specifically moved up to provide a voice to the African American vote in the Democratic presidential primary.

time. I haven't been following the horse races in the various states but have read here that she has possibly accepted that she will lose this one and is concentrating on the next battles. They all must be pretty tired. Would I take a shot if Obama skipped a state or two for strategic reasons? Doubt it, as long as he at least faxed in a "present."

I did read, however, that she left Bill behind, not exactly disrespectful now, is it.

Edit to add--You have tried to make your original post less nasty with this one. Let me remind you what you wrote that I responded to.

"She left SC, she already denigrated them

It doesn't matter, it's just black people voting for a black man. I've watched the minority vote dismissed by white candidates for years. I'm sure it's no secret to them when it happens. She's have never abandoned white women in NH."

That was specifically chosen to give the African American vote an early voice in the primaries. It was a nasty thing for her to do which is why the post was nasty and I don't take back a word of it.

And she's supposed to be back in SC the day after tomorrow.

She could have waited until after Saturday if SC was truly as important to her as the other early states.

when he thought it would be most beneficial.

In her case the Union endorsement might have been even better before Nevada. And Kerry's might have been better before NH. But I'm sure they both have strategic reasons for the choices they've made.

full day depending on when she flew to California.

Honestly. :rofl:

If not, then her opinion is clear. We'll see what she does.

wrong with the campaign.

really weak stuff to say she's abandonded this state. I personally can't wait to vote for her on Sat.

And I have a feeling the results Saturday might surprise a few people...

South Carolina

Blacks: Obama 70%, Hillary 15%, Edwards 1%
Whites: Hillary 43%, Edwards 30%, Obama 17%

That is the drop in indies voteinf in the GOP primary vs the last time. They are not voting for McCain... They are going to vote in the Dem Primary.


Guess what....They are overwhelminly white. They are far more predispoesd to Obama then Clinton

Morso ... You are going yo ess record AA turnout on Saturday.

If what you say happens and they come out for Obama then things may be different. You are forgetting Edwards. What will probably happen is the white indies will split between Edwards and Obama while the black indies will go overwhelmingly for Obama. That won't change the race factor in the result.

MSM is going to spin it not as AAs voting for their own....They are going to talk about the Birthplace of the confederacy launching a Blackmand towards the WHite House. They are going talks about the conte of his character and not the color of his skin while invoking MLK. Watch.Maybe Hillary finishes third?

Blacks: 75%, Hillary 19%
Whites: Hillary 63%, Edwards 17%, Obama 15%
Hispanics: Hillary 72%, Obama 11%, Edwards 9%

There was racial fallout from Obama and Hillary playing the race card.

Content of character? Look at these inconsistent numbers. Do blacks and whites have such a wildly different definition of character?

If Obama wins in lily white Iowa comes closein NH and Nevada, wins SC going away......He will provet that he can win in all regions. He is going to have the momentum,/////Especially if Edwards finishes second in SC.

nominee.

the race card worked for Obama.

statements (fairy tale and MLK) and then shouted "racist" from the rooftops, solidifying the Black voting block in SC. It was no accident. It was dirty politics. Under the cover of the MSM who give Obama a leg-up.


Obama attacks, the MSM ignores. Clinton responds, the MSM pounces--calling her a dirty politician. The masses buy it hook line sinker. Just like they did when Bush did it to Gore.

out a few days later--after the damage was done--to say what Sen. Clinton said was not racial (MLK issue).

He played the racism card while the MSM accused the Clinton's of racism.

for HRC. If this spirals out of control I can see more and more black people leaving this party and becoming Repubs. Sen. Clyburn (sic) has said the same thing. That the Clintons need to take it easy because even if HRC gets the ticket she will need not only the Latinos but the BLACK votes as well. It all comes back around Clintons.

reason you state - is a fool. And that has nothing to do with the color of their skin.

They go tynegative on Obama in advertising. the AA community will feel very denied and bludgeoned by the heavy had of trhe CLinton Machine.


I donn't think they will vote GOP, but they will definitely sit on thier hand. THey do not consider this petty at all.

it is beyond petty - it is stupidity defined.

Anyone who for any reason helps the Republicans get the White House in 2008 is a goddam idiot, period.

I don't like race baiting. I don't like the fact that in Nevada how her camp said that Latinos wont vote for a black man. If your so much about civil rights and the end of racism why didn't she get up and say to ALL voters in the party to vote on the issues and NOT about race. Yes you are running against a challenger but if HRC would have been decent and had honor I'm sure BO would come out and support her on the ticket if she won. I hate how HRC wants to win at all cost. Screw all the other candidates and she is going to trash everyone to get where she wants to be. Thats not cool in my book. Thats not honorable. I can not support someone who doesn't speak out against racism. I can't vote for someone who inwardly is happy that Latinos wont vote for a black man. For anyone on her campaign to have said that, she should have spoken up about that terrible issue and not slap me as a black woman in the face with that opinion. By speaking up it wouldn't have meant that she is dissing Latinos it would have showed that she cares about ALL races and that she doesn't want to win on only latino or white votes. That she wants ALL Americans or atleast all of the democratic supporters to support her because she cares about EVERY race.

What you seem to this is petty is something that I can't get over. I'm fed up with racism. I'm fed up with having to be a black woman and seeing people of my skin tone being treated like trash. I'm through with injustice of all kind. Screw petty why don't people screw racism and start fighting back because in the 21st century it still MFing exists and I'm tired of it.

JC
Tired Black woman who is tired of hidden racism being accepted in America.
I'm just tired of my race being treated like dirt.

Too bad the rest of us don't.

OR else?

I find that AA's are extraordinarily sophisticated in their political decisions, and guess they will remain Democrats when they can plainly see their choices

and her race baiting camp have pissed me off. If you don't like my opinion so be it. But HRC and her camp has already created alot of bad blood. If HRC would have played fair and stayed out of the race baiting I would have been more than happy to support her if she got the ticket. My God I want a woman as president. I think she can contribute a lot but her campaign tactics have disgusted me.

that the behavior of the Obama (and hillary) camp around here has no monopoly on virtue, or dirty tricks. Obama people have been around here for months spewing every single RW thing about "the Clintons" that they made the place look like freeperland. I like Edwards, cause he is basically the most liberal. The other two are like peas in a pod one thing tips Obama to my third choice is his essentially pro nuclear power, while Edwards is not and HRC has fallen in behind Edwards. Obama means assurance of more nuclear power plants. As for his politics of hope , two things, his willingness to "trade off" the hopes of Gay Americans for the anti gay Evangelical voters , to win SC does not make him homophobic, but it proves him as a politician, like all the rest;His willing to cross bridges to the criminal element in out society, GOP make me hope he doesn't give away the store, he's already swallowed the "social security crisis" meme , and agree or not, His remarks about Reagan , comparing him favorably to Clinton, were uncalled for. Party of ideas indeed.

she didn't say "vote Obama or else."

I completely understand her sentiment. There are two schools of thought. One is support the democratic nominee no matter what because they will be better than the republican, no matter who it is. The other school of thought is to sit out the presidential vote or write in a candidate if a particular candidate is on the ballot to protest campaign tactics. One way of looking at the issue is that by voting for HRC despite disapproving her tactics is giving implicit approval, making it okay for future candidates to once again throw this or that minority group under the bus if it is politically expedient. Punishing them at the polls is one way to help assure that it doesn't happen again.

You may think that's petty, but when is enough, enough? People get sick of being taken advantage of because they "have no other choice."

I'm still new to politics and voting. If HRC is on the ticket than yes I wouldn't vote for her but would write in for someone else. Thanks again.

You are also falling into the trap set for the Dem nominees. The campaigns weren't the ones turning everything into race/gender- that was the media. It worked well and people took the bait and ran. Now instead of talking about issues and the Republicans we are all clawing at each other instead.

Ask yourself this please: Who, in the long run, benefits from the Democratic party eating it's own?

as much as you don't like it. Getting some form a basic healthcare and responsiblilty in government will, in the long run, convince most to vote Dem in the final voting , I hope. ( In my youth I voted for Gene McCarthy, Humphrey lost, we got Nixon that was a mistake )

be able to drive a truck through.

gracious when doing it.....

What obama and his campaign has to be corned about is the main street media. The press will be the ones that will make a big deal out of the black vote and the % obama received. This is one thing obama does not need, for his election in SC to be perceived as black only

south will be outnumbered by white Republicans. The key demographic in the general will be Hispanics who will eagerly support Hillary and carry the western states for the Democratic candidates.

saying is that we shouldn't vote anyway since we will be out numbered by republicans. Plus we aren't needed because of the latinos will support the democratic candidate.

*shakes head* this party has some real issues. More and more I'm realizing that my black vote doesn't matter because the new in crowd "latinos" will represent for the dem. party.

Maybe you don't mean this but this is the way its coming out to me and I'm sadden by that.

Not only is it disrespectful, it's just plain old dull & dumb strategy.

this party not caring about the black vote. If America was truly beyond racism than my vote would count just as much as the latino, white, asian, arab etc votes. The Dems need EVERYONE. Not just the Latinos and white voters.

Assuming the entire active DEM base "has no choice but to vote DEM" and does, the DLC types never seem to factor in who does almost all the volunteer work and who has been their most loyal supporters. Support is one thing, degree and enthusiasm of support is another.

I hope I'm wrong, but it seems that we risk some bridges being burned and that could harm us in the general...

My thesis is that party members should be the ones that select the party's candidate. Registered Democrats are behind Hillary more so than behind Obama.

The General Election is the time when Democrats should be seeking the support of republicans and independents, not the primaries.

...at least compared to your average DLC/Lieberman style DEM.

If it is an Open Primary you go after Indies and republicans.

Truth is, it looks like it is Obama who could win over those people, not Hillary.

Fatigued consertavits, Republicans and independents dont like Hillary, or she would be gaining their votes in OPEN primaries, as well as gaining their consideration and trust as the DLC has always claimed she will. Fact is, she wont.

But the great thing is the ACTIVE DEM base loves him too. I was talking about how Hillary/DLC types continue to ignore and talk down to the active base-and how it will hurt her in the general.

If she & the usual Liebermanesque DLCers dont change soon, In the general, neither the active base as well as "swing" Republicans/independents will be enthusiastic about her.

portion of the black vote. However, they shouldn't be so sure that the Hispanics will carry then across the finish line.

as he seeks out republicans and indepentents to select the Democratic Party's candidate.

thats an incredibly stupid thing to say, in fact, point to a link where he has ever blamed a loss on women. I want to see it, if you don't you're obviously lying.

One thing I can tell: if Hillary loses, she'll give a concession speech. If Obama loses, he'll run out of town again and post some snippy stuff on his website.

The SC primary is the first southern state to vote in this election cycle. I'm fairly sure that excitement in that state is at fever pitch. For the first time in our history, a Black man will be running. That is the catalyst for the Blacks in SC to rise up as a group.

This is up to Obama. What happens in SC may set a pattern throughout the south. The old phrase 'Power To The People' comes to mind.

In the last two presidential elections, the issue of which candidate was solved in Iowa and resolved in NH. This time the 'race' is going to super Tuesday at the least. More reason for excitement.

Why don't we just sit back and see what the people of SC do--it is after all, their share of the show.

Sure wish we could hear from Shirley Chisholm, Barbara Jordan, and Rosa Parks concerning this very special election.

Sorry, but your grasp of history is challenging

Niether had signigifanct support.

Jackson had scant support outside the Black community and Keyes..had little support withing the community,

That is the statement I was responding to, and it was wrong.

I asm simply suggestinf that such spinning would be met with anger.

Not yet. Your post is like Bush's Iraq war: a preemptive disaster.

Total registered voters in SC: 2,246,242
Total voted in Repub primary: 442,789
That leaves: 1,803,453

Of that # non-white voters: 629,000

That leaves total white voters 1,174,353

Non-white voters in SC have shown up by some 20% more than white voters.

The demographics in the exit polling on Saturday will tell all about how the two groups voted.

http://www.state.sc.us/cgi-bin/scsec/96vr?countykey=ALL&D1=RACE

are not stupid. Perhaps Obama will spin it that all blacks must stick together against those nasty whites and hispanics. Either way it is a sad day for democrats. MLK brought whites right along with him. They marched right with the King movement. Whites ran underground railroads at great risk to their own lives. Many a white died for Martin's dream. Obama on the other hand seems to pit us against each other. I loved and still do love MLK, a true uniter. Obama~not so much.

It would kill him politicallyto do that.