One thing is for certain if we end up with an Obama vs Huckabee election

We will have another bible thumper for a president for at least four more years.

It would be nice to get a president who's just going to get us out of war and out of economic recession and leave the religious jargon up to the preachers who keep their sermons where they belong: in the churches.

Some of his speeches, like some of the other candidates speeches "god monger". For an example of an HRC speech that fits this description, see: http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/speech/view/?id=1362

But most of the speeches given by all of the candidates don't fit that description at all. Here are some links to Obama speeches. Tell me how these speeches "god monger"?

http://www.barackobama.com/2008/01/22/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_41.php
http://www.barackobama.com/2008/01/03/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_39.php
http://www.barackobama.com/2007/12/27/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_38.php
http://www.barackobama.com/2007/12/18/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_37.php
http://www.barackobama.com/2007/12/05/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_36.php
http://www.barackobama.com/2007/11/30/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_35.php

Okay, I'll grant you that there may be a speech that he
made where he didn't god-monger. Heck, there may even
be several.

But *EVERY TIME* *I* have ever heard him speak, he disgusts
me with his pandering about religion. This *IS NOT* what I
want from my President.

The only way I'll ever be able to vote for Obama is if
I stop listening to him now. (And, BTW, saying "But Hillary
does it tooooooo!" won't win me over; there's no way that
I will ever cast a vote for her; do you want me to finally
drop Obama into that class as well?)

I also see that my opinion (about his god-mongering) is
shared by other respondants on this thread; perhaps it
is you who has the mistaken impression of how he speaks?

Tesha

it's a choice between the ecumenical faith of Barack Obama or the religio-crazy, swirly eyed, snake-handling babblry of Huckabee. It's a choice between the interfaith practices put forth by people like Dr. Martin Luther King, or the theocratic beliefs of people like R. J. Rushdoony. Obama vs. Huckabee? Shit, that's an easier choice than whether I want pancakes or cat shit for breakfast.

in politics.

They both do it consistently. Even when Obama denies those "scurrilous" rumors about him being a Muslim, he makes it sound as if him being a Christian is the only way for a president to go....right from how he brags about taking his oath on a Bible, to braggin how he's been a member of the same Christian church for 20 years, to bragging how he leads the Senate in the Pledge of Allegiance (one nation under GOD). That and all the other ways that he and Huckabee jam it down our throats.

In a country in which more than three-quarters of the population self-identifies as Christian, more than half are "absolutely certain" that God exists, and only 8-11 percent are atheists, you'd have to be an idiot not to profess some sort of faith if you want to get elected. I don't have to like that (I'm about as far from religious as you can get), but I do recognize that faith is important in American public life.

As far as Obama "bragging" about being a member of the same church for 20 years, I think that if he didn't have to deny all those asinine rumors, you wouldn't be hearing near as much about how Christian he is. In this chicken-or-egg battle, it's the rumors that came first, not Obama's iteration of his own Christianity. Note how his Illinois state senate and U.S. senate campaigns, while mentioning faith, generally referred simply to "God" rather than a specific sect.

she goes to the wingnut Fellowship prayer sessions and hobnobs with the most fundy people in D.C. She uses religion too.

our modern pluralistic society, and if we're going to do that then we need to realize that 90% of us believe in God."

Obama lives and breathes the stuff during his campaigning. Whatever happened to separation of church and state.

It just makes the point that they both suck and in a sane
election, we wouldn't be voting for either of them.

Tesha

Read this article:
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

insist that we should reach out to the wishes of evangelical America. Nor does she preach about joining religion with our "modern pluralistic society" like Senator Obama.

I am an athiest so I understand and agree with your concern about the separation of church and state. I agree that Barack does use religious rhetoric to reach out to voters who respond to that language. Where I disagree is the idea that this is particularly unusual or problematic. I find the secretive nature of Hillary's religious activities to be far more troubling. Here is an interview with Barack that I found interesting:
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/204017.aspx

An excerpt:

We need to end the theocracy, not extend it.

Can you imagine what it will be like to have an Obama-Huckster general election? It'll be the dueling preachers of 2008. "I'm more of a Christian than you are."

That would certainly show us who is the better candidate!

Tesha

He's a true liberal who will bring true reforms to the country.

I don't know how many times we have to hear how he took his oath on a Bible and not the Koran. That and all his other bible thumping references are a bit annoying, considering this is supposed to be politics, not religion.

It doesn't make you a Bible thumper just because you are trying to get your share of votes from right wing Christians.

If you want votes from Right Wing Christians, then either:

1. You don't want my vote, 'cause I stand diametrically-opposed
to Right Wing Christians on most everything, or

2. You're willing to lie to both of us about what you stand for
because I stand...

So which is it? Does he want their votes more than mine or is
he simply a lying panderer?

Tesha

The whole idea is to get elected in November. To that end, we should be fishing for every vote we can get. Or would you prefer to see one of the Republicans elected, which would be tantamount to a third Bush term? Fighting for every possible vote doesn't have to mean that we are compromising our principles.

I don't understand the harm in having two groups with diametrically opposed views voting for the same candidate. That's how it often works in politics. It's called coalition politics, and if you don't play that game you probably won't win the election. If FDR hadn't gotten votes from Southern segregationists, he wouldn't have been able to save this country from the state we were in in 1932. But just because he got votes from Southerners does that make him any less a great president?

> The whole idea is to get elected in November.

See, your "whole idea" is different than mine. My "whole idea"
is to take the needed steps to restore Democracy to America
and restore America's greatness in the world's eyes.

If that could happen through a single election this November,
that would be nice, but I don't believe that *ANY* single
election matters all that much, and I certainly don't believe
that this upcoming election will do it single-handedly. And
electing as a President someone who isn't interested in
restoring Democracy won't help advance my goals at all.

Tesha

who are not right-wing. Most Americans are Christian. It is smart politics.

win those folks over just doesn't sit wel;l with some of us.

It still might be a winning strategy, however.

Brewer and Shipley!!

this time, in Russian!!!

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