“I never did anything major without discussing it with her,” Bill Clinton

Subject line quotation - New York Times Jan. 22, 2008

Did Hillary collaborate with Bill on this policy. It's pretty major.

Squeezed to Death

Half a million children have died in Iraq since UN sanctions were imposed - most enthusiastically by Britain and the US. Three UN officials have resigned in despair. Meanwhile, bombing of Iraq continues almost daily. John Pilger investigates.

Saturday March 4, 2000
Guardian Unlimited
This is a war against the children of Iraq on two fronts: bombing, which in the last year cost the British taxpayer £60 million. And the most ruthless embargo in modern history. According to Unicef, the United Nations Children's Fund, the death rate of children under five is more than 4,000 a month - that is 4,000 more than would have died before sanctions. That is half a million children dead in eight years. If this statistic is difficult to grasp, consider, on the day you read this, up to 200 Iraqi children may die needlessly. "Even if not all the suffering in Iraq can be imputed to external factors," says Unicef, "the Iraqi people would not be undergoing such deprivation in the absence of the prolonged measures imposed by the Security Council and the effects of war."

From 60 Minutes, May 1996

Leslie Stahl: "We have heard that a half million children have died (as a result of sanctions against Iraq). I mean, that is more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?"

Madeleine Albright: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price, we think the price is worth it." 60 Minutes

I would trade Madeleine's life for a sick dog. Go figure.

Is it worth it ? ...I think so.

It may take a village to raise a child but it takes a superpower wipe out 1/2 a million of 'em.

Now there are 5.0 (five) million orphans in Iraq. Some of the most dilligent in trying to remedy the problem are US troops who are trying to adopt some of them. Now that's irony.

her last interview w/Russert and Marc Rich.

And Albright's response here is disgusting.

Wouldn't want to be on her bad side.

"Madam Ambassador, autorank was crushed by your limo."

"It was worth it."

When policy targets children, we're all thrown under the bus.

She said she knew the second she said it that it wasn't what she meant at all. She describes it as the worst thing she has ever said in her life, the biggest mistake in speaking ever. I believe her. I would think anybody would go back to the days of the UN sanction over the mess we've got today, and that's exactly what she meant when she said it. If we could avoid what we've got today, and get the kinds of changes in Iraq they were seeking, then it would have been worth it, tragically as the loss of life was. That's not the same as saying the deaths of children are fine with her, which is the way that statement sounds. I hate when that particular quote is used against her, it's really not fair.

Whoa. That's bold. Hats off to you. We are where we are today because Bush and Congress ignored the
data and invaded with no good cause (i.e., an imminent threat to us). The WMD lie was known before
the Iraq War Resolution vote. Heck, compendiums of articles decrying the lies were posted here.

THEY KNEW before the 2003 invasion.

THEY KNEW when they voted the authorization for the 2003 invasion.

This is the culture of death that must be banished, burried, but first acknowledged. Time for truth.

As far as Albright goes, she said it. She backtracked when the fury arose. How do you accidentally
say, "It was worth it" when someone tells you half a million children died. Sorry, doesn't work
for me. She should have been fired immediately, right on the spot. I'm glad she said it, though,
because it reveals the "culture of death" that imperial policies confer on those in charge.

Unfortunately, today nobody asks Bush or anyone, "How about those .5 million Iraqi orphans? How about
those 1.2 million dead Iraqi civilians?"

Her point at that time was they were attempting to avoid a fuller war or worse catastrophies caused by an Iraq with WMD. That was her only point at the time. Not that the children's deaths were acceptable, but that the overall sanctioning of Iraq was worth it if it avoided fuller war and ended all WMD programs in Iraq. It was a terrible mistake on her part and she owns it.

Now, I think they were just as obsessed in regards to Iraq and WMD as the Bushes were. I believe John Edwards when he says he listened to the Clinton people on Iraq. I believe the IWR vote was the Clinton's strategy, 100%. I believe she actually supported the war, not just the inspections as she tries to pretend. I don't believe she will change ME foreign policy one iota. That is the key reason I don't support them. BUT, that doesn't mean I have to believe that Albright seriously meant she thought the lives of 500,000 children were irrelevant. I know her background and there is just no way she meant to say that.

And to hear her husband claim that they share everything? Something's rotten:


From DUer leveymg, who remembered this link: Wed Jan-23-08 12:04 PM


19. Oh, Hillary never benefited one dime from the Rich family or their friends. Sure.


Let's see, TIME Magazine was simply making things up when it printed this chronology of the Rich pardon: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,99831-...


DEC. 15 Senator-elect Hillary Clinton agrees to an $8 million deal for her memoirs.

DEC. 20 At a White House event featuring Barbra Streisand, Rich's ex-wife Denise takes Clinton aside to plead Rich's case. In recent years, Denise has contributed nearly $1 million to the Democratic Party and its candidates, $70,000 to Hillary's Senate campaign, $450,000 to the Clinton library and $10,000 to Clinton's legal defense fund.

DEC. 22 Clinton grants his first batch of pardons to 62 people, including former Representative Dan Rostenkowski, convicted of misuse of public funds.

DEC. 24 The New York Times' Maureen Dowd reveals Hillary's "secret shower" thrown by friends and donors. The Clintons later disclose $190,027 worth of gifts from supporters -- including coffee tables and chairs from Denise Rich, valued at $7,375, and a dining table from Beth Dozoretz, the wealthy former finance chair of the Democratic National Committee and close friend of Bill Clinton's.

DEC. 25 Quinn e-mails colleagues, "The greatest danger lies with the lawyers . I have worked them hard, and I am hopeful that E. Holder will be helpful to us." Eric Holder, the Deputy Attorney General, is the only Justice Department official who knows about the pardon application.

DEC. 26 Rich lawyer Robert Fink e-mails colleagues, "Frankly, I think we benefit from not having the existence of the petition known."

DEC. 28 After Rich's lawyers toy with the idea of enlisting the help of Hillary Clinton or New York Senator Chuck Schumer, Denise Rich slams the plan. According to a Quinn e-mail, a "friend" advises Denise "not to discuss in front of HRC."

DEC. 30 Quinn asks colleagues whether Leah Rabin, widow of the slain Israeli Prime Minister, might help. Avner Azulay, Rich's point man in Israel, responds, "Not a bad idea. The problem is how do we contact her? She died last November."

JAN. 3 Hillary Clinton is sworn into the Senate, which prohibits the receipt of any gift worth more than $50.

JAN. 4 Azulay sends an e-mail to Quinn suggesting that a pardon for Rich might make it easier for Israeli officials to accept the rejection of a pardon for jailed Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard ("one more reason to say yes to MR").

The White House begins shipping furniture and other gifts to the Clinton home in Chappaqua, N.Y. When the gifts come to light in February, the Clintons will pay for $86,000 worth of them and return $28,000 worth of furnishings that are deemed White House property.

Always was. Next!

.

They'll call it the "Where have all the children gone" exhibit. People will be shocked and weep
saying, "If we only knew." But some knew... and the policy continued to this day.

I agree with Albright. Sadam could have ended that sanction any time he wanted by resigning.

How much lower can real politic go?

I don't know what you mean.

Last response. Your argument makes no sense. Open warfare over what? Why? Saddam might invade a
feudal monarchy again, one he claimed was stealing his oil. He couldn't his army was wiped out.

Open warfare? Nonsense. But if killing children through a total embargo is the way to avoid it,
then the policy makers had an impoverished mind set.

This was unacceptable, the figures below are unacceptable, the whole damn thing is unacceptable.

Killing is not a foreign policy, mass killing is not a foreign policy. When it's happening and
you find out - AND YOU DEFEND IT AND CONTINUE IT, AS BUSH AND THOSE WHO VOTE THE FUNDS ARE - IT IS

TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.

Every time. And now, as we know that Saddam was playing a huge propaganda ploy for WMDs, what are the chances that everything else was plaster and paint? Was the intel correct regarding his transgressions or did we just sanction the hell out of that country based on a madman's lie?

Just chillin', checking things out, on patrol - "eternal vigilance"

First, I don't want to imply that I am crediting the figures you cite. They may be right, but I don't know.

Second, the Gulf War was over when Clinton took office. So the decision whether or not to go to war over Kuwait was immaterial.

At the conclusion of that war the U.N. (not the USA) used sanctions to prevent Iraq from destabilizing the region and threatening its neighbors. Part of this was to prevent Iraq from securing fissionable material which they were seeking in the 1980s. I agree that we should not have been dependant on Mid. East oil, but we were and so were a lot of other people. Don't forget, "the economy" is ultimately how people feed themselves, so it was not a trivial matter.

Despite this, Iraq continued to act aggressively and challenge U.N. sanctions. Had Iraq complied, the sanctions may have been lifted. We were not killing anyone after the war. The Iraqis (Sadam and his henchmen) were doing that on their own. Had Sadam abdicated, the sanction would have been lifted. The only alternative to sanctions and inspections while still keeping Sadam pacified was open war with Iraq. We did that in 2003 with disasterous concequences.

The Lancette did a study a couple years ago that found that the Iraq War caused roughly half a million civilian deaths in Iraq. These were not necessarily people shot by US/UK troops, but rather died from all war-related causes. Plus their economy is destroyed. Plus ours is wrecked. Plus we have what, 4000 dead GIs by now? Plus the military is wrecked. Plus Iraq is poised to become another Islamic fundamentalist state.

I'm sorry, but your view of foreign policy is good for aspirations, but it is not an accurate relection of what foreign relations actually do. Foreign policy has always had real reprocussions for real people. That is why it is so contentious. That is why people are willing to resort to war to get what they want. The outcome of a dispute may decide whether a group of people continue to exist or become extinct. It may be the difference between peace and slavery. Stakes are always high and even unavoidable consequences can be disasterous. There often is no right answer to a problem.

A tank that belonged in a museum.

The sanctions were/are a sham. Trying to re write history to make it seem as if the US had no choice is utter bullshit.

Time to end corporate dominance of the media, it has poisoned peoples minds with propaganda.

Or maybe you are thinking of the 1/2 dozen Su 27's that Saddam had.

And beware those SAM-6 missile batteries. You know, the SAM-6 that was developed in 1958 by the Soviets.

Nominated.

wait, there was some pretty intense action that nobody would want to carry.

Maybe she'll correct him and say that she thought it verged on murder. Ya never know;)

No wonder hil&bil supported chimptard's War On Iraq(before he lied about it)..bill was killin' 'em long before bushits staged their coup.

us with open arms. The BushCo people were told in no uncertain terms that the embargo was lethal and that it created hostility toward the U.S. But that didn't stop BushCo from telling that lie, unchallenged by MSM, before invading. Just like the bureaucrat they put on TV who said the war would cost $1.6 billion net and be financed largely by Iraq oil revenues. Such a deal;)

to repair their water purification plants leading to the deaths of thousands of Iraqi children due to dysentery. The Clinton Admin kept flying an approximately 200 sorties a year bombing Iraq, thus continuing the US policy of crippling sanctions.

Thanks for posting this, Mike. K&R! :) Too many people buy into the happy face politics of the Clintons (I did for years) that mask the cruel underlying policies that have made the US hated across the globe.

:hi:

Or, maybe to prove Bill's "tough" credentials.

Here is a portion of activist/mother, Terri Swearingen's acceptance speech for the Goldman Environmental Prize, given April 14, 1997:



I am not a scientist or a Ph.D. I am a nurse and a housewife, but my most important credential is that I am a mother. In 1982, I was pregnant with our one and only child. That's when I first learned of plans to build one of the world's largest toxic waste incinerators in my community. When they began site preparation to begin building the incinerator in 1990, my life changed forever. I'd like to share with you some of the lessons I have learned from my experiences over the past seven years.

One of the main lessons I have learned from the WTI experience is that we are losing our democracy. How have I come to this sad realization? Democracy is defined by Merriam Webster as "government by the people, especially rule of the majority," and "the common people constituting the source of political authority." The definition of democracy no longer fits with the reality of what is happening in East Liverpool, Ohio. For one thing, it is on the record that the majority of people in the Ohio Valley do not want the WTI hazardous waste incinerator in their area, and they have been opposed to the project from its inception. Some of our elected officials have tried to help us, but the forces arrayed against us have been stronger than we or they had imagined. Public concerns and protests have been smothered with meaningless public hearings, voodoo risk assessment and slick legal maneuvering.

Government agencies that were set up to protect public health and the environment only do their job if it does not conflict with corporate interests. Our current reality is that we live in a "wealthocracy" big money simply gets what it wants. In this wealthocracy, we see three dynamics at play: corporations versus the planet, the government versus the people, and corporate consultants or "experts" versus common sense. In the case of WTI, we have seen all three.

The second lesson I have learned ties directly to the first, and that is that corporations can control the highest office in the land. When Bill Clinton and Al Gore came to the Ohio Valley, they called the siting of the WTI hazardous waste incinerator next door to a 400 student elementary school, in the middle of an impoverished Appalachian neighborhood, immediately on the bank of the Ohio River in a flood plain an "UNBELIEVABLE IDEA." They said we ought to have control over where these things are located. They even went so far as to say they would stop it. But then they didn't! What has been revealed in all this is that there are forces running this country that are far more powerful than the President and the Vice President. This country trumpets to the world how democratic it is, but it's funny that I come from a community that our President dare not visit because he cannot witness first hand the injustice which he has allowed in the interest of a multinational corporation, Von Roll of Switzerland. And the Union Bank of Switzerland. And Jackson Stephens, a private investment banker from Arkansas. These forces are far more relevant to our little town than the President of the United States! And he is the one who made it that way. He has chosen that path. We didn't choose it for him. We begged him to come to East Liverpool, but he refused. We begged the head of EPA to come, but she refused. She hides behind the clever maneuvering of lawyers and consultants who obscure the dangers of the reckless siting of this facility with theoretical risk assessments.

-snip

http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/wti/et0897s17.html




There has always been something incongruous about Stephens Inc. Despite the Little rock firm's attempts to portray itself as a small- city operation that closes for the duck season and got fabulously lucky on a couple of down-home deals like Wal-Mart, it was, at the incinerator's inception, the ninth-largest investment bank in the country. Since it is not headquartered in New York, its dealings are local news, little noticed by the national press, even when they have national implications. And, as a source close to the company once remarked, "The farther you get from Arkansas, the better it looks."

Stephens Inc. was founded by Witt Stephens, a state legislator's son who parlayed a Depression-era belt-buckle, Bible, and municipal-bond business into an immense personal fortune. After his retirement in 1973, the company was run by his shy younger brother, Jackson (a classmate of Jimmy Carter's at the Naval Academy). Witt Stephens and Stephens Inc. did much to create the economic paradox that is modern Arkansas: a desperately poor state with a scant 2.3 million inhabitants that is nonetheless home to a number of wealthy companies. Without the financial assistance of the Stephens brothers, Sam Walton might have ended his days as the most innovative merchant in Bentonville. Stephens money was also important to the fortunes of enterprises as various as Tyson Foods and Linda Bloodworth-Thomason, the television producer and reigning First Friend. Stephens Inc. is an important client of the Rose law firm, whose chairman, C. Joseph Giroir, made Hillary Rodham Clinton a partner. And back in 1977, Stephens assisted BCCI's infiltration of the American banking system by brokering the latter's purchase of National Bank of Georgia stock held by Bert Lance, former President Jimmy Carter's friend and disgraced budget director.

Jackson Stephens (who turned over the reins to his son, Warren, in the late eighties) and his firm were both substantial contributors to the campaigns of Presidents Reagan and Bush (to the tune of at least $100,000 in 1980 and 1989), but they have been closer still to Bill Clinton (whom Witt Stephens had been known to call "that boy").

On two occasions, once when Clinton was running for reelection in Arkansas in 1990 and again in March 1992, when his battered presidential campaign was broke, the Stephens family saved Clinton's bacon with an infusion of money. Indeed, it may not be too much to say that their Worthen Bank's emergency $3.5 million line of credit saved the presidential campaign from extinction. --L.J.D.

-snip

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1993/11/davis.html

Who is the octopussy that might be lurking in the Ohio River Valley? Perhaps we should start by asking shy Arkansas billionaire Jackson T. Stephens. After all, Stephens introduced BCCI from Pakistan to the United States and the WTI waste incinerator to East Liverpool, Ohio. Stephens would be a good sketch artist because he's seen some monstrous scandals in his day. Stephens' family firm is the largest privately owned investment bank outside Wall Street. In September 1977, President Jimmy Carter's Budget Director Burt Lance was forced to resign amid allegations about his bank dealings with Stephens (Stephens and Carter were classmates at the Naval Academy). In 1978, Stephens, Lance and BCCI were charged with violating U.S. security laws. The charges were dropped after the defendants promised not to violate security laws in the future, even though they admitted no guilt.

The New York Post reported in February 1992 that it was Stephens who enabled BCCI to gain a foothold in the U.S. and helped the fraud-plagued bank secretly acquire U.S. banks. In Peter Truell and Larry Gurwin's book, False Profits, perhaps the best account of the BCCI scandal, the authors outlined how opium revenue from Afghanistan Mujahedin fighting the Soviets ended up in the accounts of BCCI, founded by Agha Hasan Abedi. The Post reported that Stephens allegedly introduced Abedi to Lance shortly after Lance resigned.

In 1991, Lance testified that he urged Abedi to acquire a Washington bank holding company, but he denied any knowledge of BCCI's subsequent secret ownership of First American Bankshares. The Post reported that Securities and Exchange Commission documents from 1977 substantiate that the idea originated with Stephens.

During Bill Clinton's 1992 presidential run, Stephens and his son Warren boasted of raising more than $100,000 for the campaign. The Stephens family also owned a 38 percent share in Worthen National Bank that extended a crucial $2 million line of credit to Clinton in January 1992.

-snip

http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/wti/bob.html

Waste Technologies Industry, Inc. (WTI)


WTI has also gained significant political support, as one of the original partners in the corporation was Jackson Stephens. Stephens, an Arkansas investor, was known as a significant contributor to Reagan, Bush, and Clinton campaigns.

U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

The EPA has been accused of having bias in favor of WTI and carrying out decision-making activities without required public participation. The agency also violated rules established in RCRA during the WTI permit application process. EPA admitted such wrong-doing at a hearing before the House Judiciary Committee's subcommitteeon Administrative Law and Government Relations, as well as the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

http://www.umich.edu/~snre492/mcormick.html#Key%20Actors

Washington, D.C. - The League of Conservation Voters (LCV), the self-described political arm of the environmental movement, has given President Clinton a middling grade of "C-plus" overall for "not working up to potential" during his first year in office.

In particular, the League criticized the Clinton Administration for failing to halt Waste Technologies Industries' controversial hazardous waste incinerator in East Liverpool, Ohio.

-snip

http://wasteage.com/mag/waste_fewer_onsite_hazwaste/


THEY FIGHT FOR THE RICH & POWERFUL INTERESTS FIRST, THEN IF THOSE ARE SUFFICIENTLY SERVED THEN THE CHILDREN'S INTERESTS WILL BE SERVED>

Sorry Auto, for hi-jacking your thread, but there does seem to be a pattern here. :hi:

:hi: Smilies are not have to say your sorry.

:kick: