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STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT! PLEASE stop tearing each other apart over who played the race card first!!!

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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:35 PM
Original message
STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT! PLEASE stop tearing each other apart over who played the race card first!!!
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 11:43 PM by EffieBlack
Don't you realize that, in tearing each other apart over whether Clinton or Obama is playing the race card or who played it first are doing EXACTLY what the media and the Republicans want you to do?

Here's the bottom line: neither Clinton nor Obama "played the race card" first - in fact , neither one has played the race card at all! Not by a long shot.

The race card argument is a falsehood created by the media who, by their own definition, have been playing the race card since Obama first announced his intention to run. They have been hyping and harping and byperventilating about race for more than a year - they've been polling on it, they've been talking about it, they've been asking about it, they've been writing about it, it's been the subject of countless articles and segments.

Yet, now they're behaving as if it is the Clintons who have introduced race into the discussion. And then they run to the Obama people and egg them on with such questions as, "How are you going to respond to the Clintons playing the race card against you."

And, unfortunately, you're buying it - and now you guys are arguing with each other about whether Obama or the Clintons played the race card first.

NEITHER ONE OF THEM HAS PLAYED THE RACE CARD. It is the press that is pushing this paradigm, either because their "Yikes! Obama might just actually viable after all!" and "Yikes, Hillary isn't as inevitable as we've been saying she is" frame got played out and no one is listening to them anymore or because they are intentionally trying to undercut the female and the black candidate - or maybe a little bit of both.

Please don't fall for this. Stop fighting with each other. Turn your attention to the people on the other side. You remember them - the Republicans. The ones who are getting a completely free ride while you fight like children over who has the cooties.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Amen to that. It hurts Hillary and it hurts Barack, so why don't people ask who it helps?
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 11:42 PM by Kurt_and_Hunter
The media loves ugliness in general, and Democratic ugliness in particular.

And the powers that be would love nothing more than to sow discord in Democratic ranks.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Ditto. If this continues it's a no win for everyone except the media
who makes more money wasting more time on it.

It is going to turn John & Jane Q. Public off from all the Democrats for sure.

I know I am sick and tired of it.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
7.  except the media and the Republicans
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think you're right in many ways.
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 11:46 PM by MetricSystem
Just look at the huge deal the MSM makes over racial and gender divides in the polls, and the assumptions they make with those numbers. Also, I'm sure some of you heard about this controversial article on CNN.com a few days ago which pissed off many readers:

***(CNN) -- Within minutes of posting a story on CNN's homepage called "Gender or race: Black women voters face tough choices in South Carolina," readers reacted quickly and angrily.

Readers want media to focus more on the candidates and how they feel about the issues not their gender or race.

Many took umbrage at the story's suggestion that black women voters face "a unique, and most unexpected dilemma" about voting their race or their gender.

CNN received dozens of e-mails shortly after posting the story, which focuses largely on conversations about Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama that a CNN reporter observed at a hair salon in South Carolina whose customers are predominantly African-American:

The story states: "For these women, a unique, and most unexpected dilemma, presents itself: Should they vote their race, or should they vote their gender?"

An e-mailer named Tiffany responded sarcastically: "Duh, I'm a black woman and here I am at the voting booth. Duh, since I'm illiterate I'll pull down the lever for someone. Hm... Well, he black so I may vote for him... oh wait she a woman I may vote for her... What Ise gon' do? Oh lordy!"

Tiffany urged CNN to "pull this racist crap off" the Web site and to stop calling Hillary the "top female candidate."

"Stop calling Barack the "Black" candidate," she wrote.

Many readers were upset that the story did not delve beyond a cursory mention of the issues.

The article stated: "While race and gender play a role, most women here say they plan to vote based on the issues. They rank health care, education and the economy in order of importance."

The salon owner, Angela Jackson, a Clinton supporter, is quoted as saying: "They don't pay my bills. And they're not attached to my belly. Nobody is attached to my belly but me. They don't feed me, clothe me. I don't care what they think. ... She's a woman, I'm a woman."

A reader named Joan e-mailed: "Really CNN, is this how you view black women Are you suggesting that white women are going to have it easier How about issues? Should a black woman consider the candidates position on issues, or should we just stick to race and gender. Disgusting!"

Matt e-mailed, "The article itself shows black women have brains and actually choose candidates based on issues and not just gender or race, but CNN doesn't seem to give them that credit."

Others responding to the story wrote that they want CNN and other media to focus on the substance of the candidates' accomplishments and stances on issues, rather than their appearance.

"Since Edwards no longer officially exists, as a white male I face the same choice - either I vote my race (Clinton) or my gender (Obama). Or I could just pick the candidate based on who I think would be best," wrote Michael.

Another e-mailer, D.T., who describes herself as a young, white woman, said voters should choose the candidate best qualified to lead.

"I'm sure there are plenty of black women who are Republican and could care less who the Dem leader will be," she said. "Close your eyes and look at who can fulfill the best to their promises."***

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/21/emails.race.gender/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Thanks for posting that:
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 11:59 PM by EffieBlack
Another example - from last Sunday's "This Week" interview with Rep. Charlie Rangel - this may qualify as one of the more insulting and bigoted interview questions of the week:

George Stephanopoulos: Finally, sir, one political question. You're a big supporter of Senator Clinton in this race. But I want to show you some figures from our last poll concerning African American support in this presidential race. A month ago, Hillary Clinton was leading Barack Obama 52% to 39%. Just last week, Barack Obama, 60% of the black vote, Hillary Clinton, 32%. Yesterday, he won more than 80% of the black vote in Nevada. Are you concerned that black voters and black leaders are going in different directions in this presidential race?

Rep. Charles Rangel: Not at all. It just shows that black folks are just as American as anybody else.


Thank you, Congressman Rangel. Although it's really a damned shame that a U.S. Congressman, the Chair of the House Ways and Means Committee has to remind a major "journalist" that black folk aren't any different than anyone else.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. The Party, and Hillary herself, would be better off if Bill stopped campaigning
He not only eclipses Hillary's own message (his campaign speeches are on TV more than his wife's), he's come to serve as the prime example of divisive politics the will lead to a divided party just when we have the chance to easily win in November.

If he doesnt stop, the party will fracture and no Democrat will win in November.

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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. This isn't about Bill. This is about the media, which is exploiting race
They would do this whether or not Bill is in the race.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. "This isn't about Bill. This is about the media, which is exploiting race"
The media was content to leave race out before the Clintons first brought it up in NH.

Was the media talking about race in Iowa? No.

Sorry you cant see this, but the genesis for race becoming an issue lies with the Clintons themselves.

I think the latest Clinton spin that its the media causing this is more a fairy tale than Obamas war voting record.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. If you think the media "was content to leave race out of it" until now, you have NOT been paying
attention.

And if you think the media wasn't talking about race in Iowa and long before that, you definitely are out of the loop. They addressed it differently, because there were too few black people in the state for them to try to pit black voters against white voters there. But they definitely have been talking about - and in fact obsessing over - race ever since Obama threw his hat in the ring. You'd have to be blind or maybe just not have given a damn not to have noticed it before.
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. "Was the media talking about race in Iowa? Yes.
Yes! Yes! Yes! Don't you remember the big deal they made about such a predominantly white state voting for an African-American?
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. And before that they made a big deal about whether a largely white state WOULD vote for
an African American.
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bellasgrams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. In your dreams
So the Clinton campaign should just take all the crap that is put out and not rebut it. If BO would stop throwing pot shots no one would have to call him on it. I don't remember a primary candidate being this divisive until BO.
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DemCam Donating Member (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
9. Oh dear me...yes yes YES
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
10. The Clintons did introduce race into the discussion
Shaheen, Kerrey, Cuomo. If they hadn't done it, we wouldn't be talking about it. The press didn't do it. That's a lame ass excuse the Clintons are pushing because they know they blew it.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Michelle Obama did it first in November
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 12:12 AM by jackson_dem
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Yes she did.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. She did NOT raise it - she answered a QUESTION posed to her about black voters
based on a POLL that was conducted about black voters.

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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. And played the race card in her response
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. That's bullshit
She answered a question about race by discussing race. That is NOT playing the race card.

You seem awfully intent on ignoriing the media's incessant attempts to invoke race in this campaign while going out of your way to blame Obama for having the nerve to mention race in responding.

You don't seem the least bit interested in the facts - you just want to trash Obama, which has been your pattern throughout all of these discussions.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. She basically said blacks should "wake up" and vote for Obama because he is black
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. That's not what she said. But accuracy and truth isn't your strong suit when it comes to
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 01:03 AM by EffieBlack
discussion Obama, so why should this be any different.

She was asked if many blacks were reluctant to vote for Obama because they doubted that a black man could win. She responded that eventually black America would "wake up and get it." This is not the same as saying that all blacks should vote for Obama because he is black.

But even if your characterization were correct - which it isn't - she made this comment in November 2007 - long after commentators and reporters began analyzing Obama's candidacy through the prism of race. For you to suggest that Michelle Obama's comments were somehow the genesis of the discussion of Obama's race in this campaign is just silly.

Elizabeth Edwards lamented - several months before Michelle answered the question she was asked about race - that her husband wasn't getting a fair shake in attention and fundraising because "we can't make John black or female." Why aren't you screaming about that?

It fascinates me how patiently some people will endure white commentators and media discussing, analyzing, parsing and dissecting Obama's race and its impact on his campaign, yet as soon as one black person even mentions his race - even when it's in response to the media discussion, analysis, parsing and dissection of race - those same people will jump up and scream "SHE'S PLAYING THE RACE CARD!!!!" at the top of their lungs.

It really says much more about you and others who engage in this kind of through-the-looking-glass racial dynamics than it does about those at whom you so easily and willingingly point the finger.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. No one ever directly makes a racial appeal
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 01:15 AM by jackson_dem
Even rethugs don't. She could have said Barack would do better as people got to know him better or something like that. She didn't.

Edwards is tied with Hillary and Obama among white males nationally. Hillary has a big lead among white women and Obama is up by fifty points nationally among black men. Even if Edwards played that card it didn't work so why even discuss whether it happened? With Obama his poll numbers improved markedly in South Carolina since he swiftboated the Clintons on race.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Don't get sucked in Effie
Sometimes it's futile to argue with certain people. Not worth the high blood pressure, ya know?
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. You're right
I just keep believing in the ability of human beings to do a little bit better. Hope just dies eternal.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. If you think that the discussion of race in this campaign began with Shaheen or Kerrey or Cuomo
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 12:46 AM by EffieBlack
you really haven't been paying attention.

Perhaps it's more obvious to me because, as a black woman, I have long been aware of and sensitive to the media's consistent attempts to pigeon-hole Obama. Maybe you missed the incessant "Is America ready for a black president" articles, news segments, discussions, etc. over the past year. I didn't. Maybe you didn't notice the cottage industry that has cropped up in polling sponsored by the various news organizations on whether blacks will vote for Obama, whether whites will vote for Obama, whether black women will vote for Hillary, whether black men will vote for Obama, whether black women will vote gender or race, etc. etc. I noticed it.

If you believe that race only came into this race because a Clinton surrogate brought it up, then you are grossly mistaken - your recollection just doesn't comport with reality.

For example, just a quick Nexis search pulled out thousands of references to Obama's race in connection with the campaign. Here are just a few:

It seems to me that there`s a chance that Obama could beat Hillary for the nomination. That chance is Iowa. If he wins out there, it will create an electricity across the country. The first African-American, of course mixed back ground. But the first African-American guy to really have a shot, that the voice of the future, no more Clinton versus -- Clinton and Bush rotating the job of the presidency like rotating old cans on a shelf in a supermarket, dusting off the cans because nobody is buying them. Chris Matthews, October 1, 2007

From the May 13, 2007 "This Week with George Stephanopoulos:

George Stephanopoulos: The 45-year-old who would be America's first African American president addressed the key question of his campaign, is he ready for the job?

{Video Clip:} Obama: I'm confident about my ability to lead this country.
. . .
Stephanopoulos: You have a very cool style when you're doing those town meetings where you're out on the campaign trail, and I wonder, how much of that is tied to your race?

Obama: That's interesting.

Stephanaopoulos: One of your friends told "The New Yorker" magazine that the mainstream is just not ready for a fire-breathing black man so do you turn down the temperature on purpose?

Obama: You know, I don't think it has to do with race. I think it has to do with when I'm campaigning I'm in a conversation, and what I don't do when I'm campaigning is to try to press a lot of hot buttons and use a lot of cheap applause lines because I want people to get a sense of how I think about this process, I want them to have some ability to walk through with me the difficult choices that we face.

From the roundtable discussion on the same show:

Sam Donaldson: In your first question to me and in your interview with him, you raise something let's just put it on the table. He is an African American. Is the country ready?
. . .
Stephanopoulos: I guess I think that anyone who is not going to vote for Barack Obama because he is black isn't going to vote for a Democrat anyway. And I wonder if there are as many people who will vote for him because -

Donaldson: I mean the place where Barack Obama really helps is in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania. Right outside Philadelphia.
. . .

George Will: And those who are going to oppose him, have to do it subtly and maybe they won't be able to actually say it, the people who really have to fear in the Democratic coalition, Barack Obama as the nominee, is Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, a whole superannuated collection of so-called civil rights leaders. They see this man who really knows that the principle problem of African Americans in this country is not racism. It's cultural.

So, tell me again - WHO first played the race card?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #16
33. That is not introducing race in a negative manner
Discussing the racism in the country is not the same thing as using racism to incite and divide. The Clintons did that, it was intentional. I don't know why you don't want to see it, it doesn't make it any less true.
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VotesForWomen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
32. b.s. nt
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
20. Alittle like a grade school playground, isn't it
"THEY started it!"

"Nu uh!"

"No fair, the media always take their side!"

"Wussie!"

"Crybaby!"

I could scream.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
21. I agree.
But we all know it was bound to come up eventually.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Yes it was. But you're not helping the situation . . .
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 12:50 AM by EffieBlack
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jzodda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
25. The media loves it and so do Repbublicans
It won't stop now, not till we have a nominee. First off the media is relentless in this: They love every second of it. Next, surrogates who support either side can not keep their mouths shut and keep speaking to any reporter who asks a question on it. Eventually it gets to the point that nobody understands what was/is said originally but new brush fires keep popping up. Once you let race out of the bottle its very very very hard to put it back in. They can call all the truces they like but these campaigns are very large organizations and even people not affiliated with the campaigns are keeping it going. This is a dream for the Repubs who hadn't a chance to win in November. But if this keeps going one of our people will come out of this nomination process gravely wounded. The anger and hurt feelings could depress our turnout in November and BOOOM! Another republican president. My hope is that this contest is wrapped up on Super Tuesday so we can move on from this. If we don't the damage will continue to build.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. You are dead on!
How sad that more people don't see it as clearly as you do - and are falling all over themselves jumping into the rabbit hole!
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dorkulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
29. "You're tearing me apart!"
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