Peggy Noonan (WSJ): Clintons are tearing the party apart and it will not be the same after this.

I never thought I would be agreeing with Peggy Noonan, but she is correct. My perspective of Democrats has really changed during this 2008 campaign. Some Democrats (including former Presidents) act no different than the Karl Rove tactics we have denounced for so long. It's sad to see that some people do or say or sell their souls to get elected.

Breaking Up Is Hard to Do
By PEGGY NOONAN
January 25, 2008

We begin, as one always must now, again, with Bill Clinton. The past week he has traveled South Carolina, leaving discord in his wake. Barack Obama, that "fairytale," is low, sneaky. "He put out a hit job on me." The press is cruelly carrying Mr. Obama's counter-jabs. "You live for it."

In Dillon, S.C., according to the Associated Press, on Thursday Mr. Clinton "predicted that many voters will be guided mainly by gender and race loyalties" and suggested he wife may lose Saturday's primary because black voters will side with Mr. Obama. Who is raising race as an issue? Bill Clinton knows. It's the press, and Mr. Obama. "Shame on you," Mr. Clinton said to a CNN reporter. The same day the Web site believed to be the back door of the Clinton war room unveiled a new name for the senator from Illinois: "Sticky Fingers Obama."

Bill Clinton, with his trembly, red faced rage, makes John McCain look young. His divisive and destructive daily comportment—this is a former president of the United States—is a civic embarrassment. It is also an education, and there is something heartening in this.

There are many serious and thoughtful liberals and Democrats who support Mr. Obama and John Edwards, and who are seeing Mr. Clinton in a new way and saying so. Here is William Greider in The Nation, the venerable left-liberal magazine. The Clintons are "high minded" on the surface but "smarmily duplicitous underneath, meanwhile jabbing hard at the groin area. They are a slippery pair and come as a package. The nation is at fair risk of getting them back in the White House for four years."

That, again, is from one of the premier liberal journals in the United States. It is exactly what conservatives have been saying for a decade. This may mark a certain coming together of the thoughtful on both sides. The Clintons, uniters at last.

Mr. Obama takes the pummeling and preaches the high road. It's all windup with him, like a great pitcher more comfortable preparing to throw than throwing. Something in him resists aggression. He tends to be indirect in his language, feinting, only suggestive. I used to think he was being careful not to tear the party apart, and endanger his own future.

But the Clintons are tearing the party apart. It will not be the same after this. It will not be the same after its most famous leader, and probable ultimate victor, treated a proud and accomplished black man who is a U.S. senator as if he were nothing, a mere impediment to their plans. And to do it in a way that signals, to his supporters, How dare you have the temerity, the ingratitude, after all we've done for you?

Watch for the GOP to attempt swoop in after the November elections and make profit of the wreckage.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120120952618514493.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

I hope we'll stop assisting?

A King Midas HazMat couple

Your scraping the bottom of the barrel now.

apart as they did with the Iraq war run-up and the country will never be the same.

I always change the channel whenever she's on a show as a pundit...dripping acid.

Like she cares about the dem party

:eyes:

Will they ever defend him on policy instead of attack, attack, attack???

If anything, it's exactly the opposite. Bill wouldn't focus on Obama if he were nothing.

Nor is playing the race card, which he did again today.

the article claims that Clinton is treating Obama as if he were nothing, which is clearly false.

"white" primary voters.

In Dillon, S.C., according to the Associated Press, on Thursday Mr. Clinton "predicted that many voters will be guided mainly by gender and race loyalties" and suggested he wife may lose Saturday's primary because black voters will side with Mr. Obama. Who is raising race as an issue? Bill Clinton knows. It's the press, and Mr. Obama. "Shame on you," Mr. Clinton said to a CNN reporter. The same day the Web site believed to be the back door of the Clinton war room unveiled a new name for the senator from Illinois: "Sticky Fingers Obama."

Why does WJC keep injecting race into the issue? Because he knows it still plays well in the South, even among so called white liberals. He is a slimey piece of gutter shit for keeping this going.

what does this have anything to do with what I said?

"Roses are red."

"No! There's a plane in the sky!"

he's nothing? To suggest that Obama will only win SC because "blacks will side with Obama". Which in white folks language suggests that it's a hollow victory because "only" black folks showed up to vote for Obama.

And, btw, your sarcasm is noted, and I hope you know what you can do with it.

for addressing the actual question. Still, I must disagree. In my opinion, the only way to treat someone as "nothing" would be to completely ignore them, as though they did not exist. If anything, he's treating Edwards as if he's nothing.

inject race nearly everytime someone sticks a mike in his blotchy face.

Don't people read Ellison in school these days?

Whose side are these folks really on?

Read the first couple paragraphs. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/01/bill_clinton_credited_reagan_i.html

And then get back to me.

He neglects that Obama started this crap back in August with Norman Hsu.

So please.

--p!

the Republican's "Southern Strategy". Divide & Conquer.

any more.

It is that sense of entitlement most of all that gets me, with them and many of their supporters. And that started WAY before primary season.

Nada.

Really?

:banghead:

one will have to ask the other one to be veep just to reunite the dems.


on edit: this was spoken assuming edwards wouldn't get the nod

Or does Peggy Noonan just have the Democrats best interest at heart?

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I didn't see him looking "angry and red."

What I do see is a bullshit race-baiting post.

Ofcourse you are entitled to your opinion and I am to mine.
1st amenment baby! Bill Clinton was angrier than a wounded tiger.

where any Democrat is concerned. Or ever, for that matter. If you'd like to rely on her as a source that's...unfortunate.

She is older, wiser, much more thoughtful. Her views don't usually jive
with mine, but she was right on spot with Clinton's demeanor.

Yes, she's a much more thoughtful RW anti-feminist.

You really think you guys are winning points with this garbage?

:puke:

In case you didn't know, there's video of Clinton which shows he was hardly red-faced and angry. In fact, Jon Stewart made fun of the media's hyping of his reaction on TDS.

yes, she is older, wiser and a thoughtful columnist. As you might
have noticed, I am not a rabid party hack who denounces everything
that is in the other party simply because it is the other party.

I wish extremists on both sides, RW & LW, would quit the hyperbole
and try to unite the country as Obama seems to be trying to do.

no matter how repugnant.

That's not a vision of unity I want any part of.

an atmosphere for a civil dialog.

This is ONE country of the United States.
We have two parties, have different goals but ONE bi-partisan method of achieving them.
Rabid partisan ship = Giant Grid Lock in Washington...No one wins!
Civil atmosphere for dialog is best for both parties.

GO OBAMA! You are our best hope for civility in Washington.
You will turn out to be another Reagan and bring the repubs into YOUR ideas and
get something done. That is what Reagan achieved, he brought in democrats into
his fold.

I'm sure she's very concerned for the state of the Democratic part. It probably keeps her up at night.

Some call her Republican-lite.

so I don't think there's any need for an Obama supporter to question whether she's a Dem.

And I don't think it's up to you to decide who the "real Dems" are as well. The real Dems are not just the ones supporting Hillary.

Obama Supporter = (?)

Not all Democrats are as enamored with the Clintons as their sycophants here on DU, so please get over yourself.

There was a time before the primaries. And people who don't support Obama referred to her as Republican lite.

I wasn't talking about me.

I would suspect those who called her that are more likely to support Kucinich.

And another professional woman reaches for the Presidency.

by creating enough bad press that they influence the vote.

By setting Obama up as the Alternative to Hilary,they started
the ball rolling.

Our establishment is so smart--the things they do during campaigna.
They want the gOP to win apparently. Airing dirty laudry is
never wise--especially during a campaign.

Has Obamas support wagon gone that far off the RW cliff now?

She's a damn Republican for cryin out loud!

of dems at heart. Ugh.

This situation (Peggy with insight?!?) is reminiscent of my thoughts during some of the *very few* times I found myself agreeing with Pat Buchanan. It freaks me out, yet none-the-less, such a stark realization does not detract from a vein of truth within the narrative. :shrug:

This is the primaries, and we're like maiden aunts swinging at each other with our patent leather black purses with the gold clasps. By the time we step in church, our veils will be properly sitting on our heads and we may even share a pew.

Whoa! I often love old analogies, but THIS ONE comes across as is Patriarchal = CREEPY!?! :puke:

IMO ---> "so wrong" on "so many levels." :crazy:

"Please pass the mashed potatoes, bitch."

"Only if you pass the salt first, slut." :rofl:

"And speaking of wonderful, what is the perfume you're wearing? Catch of the day?"

"Care for a dinner roll, darlin'?"

Peggy is loving stirring up the mess that Bill Clinton has begun within our party.

And it is a mess.

I take no joy that the right wing is enjoying the problems that Bill began several weeks ago.

Peggy is no friend of the Left. Still, even a clock is correct twice a day.

And no, a broken clock is not right at least twice a day. It just appears that way. The.Clock.Is.Broken. Time continues on, the broken clock does not.

The "third way" is a recipe for endless opportunism and capitulation to the prevailing political trends serving the powers-that-be. It will garner respect from no end of the political spectrum.

When its time for all of us to stand together, we all will.

She wishes this was the case.

:crazy:

Sounds about right, being such Reagan fans.

did with Gore. And they are attacking Clinton horribly and those attacks are unfounded.

"Poor Poor Obama," is the falicy, "he just wants to talk about the issues, but keeps getting attacked."

That is such BS. No one is attacking him. The Rezo shot was a COUNTER PUNCH. And, Obama has some explaining to do with regard to Rezo.

When Clinton attempts to suggest that his record is not as he presents it--the media and all of Obama's surrogotes shout "racism."

Obama has played the race card from the beginning. Oprah and Michelle and Lowery telling black people that there is something wrong with them if they don't vote for Obama because he is black. "Our time is now," and other codes.

If it is about black v. white, it is Obama's fault.

Lowery never said that. It's been explained to you. Lowery was talking about those who were afraid to vote for him because of what you white people were going to think. This is different than voting for someone else because you think they are better qualified.

You keep repeating this lie.

The Clintons were wrong when they said people were calling them racists. This is a word that is thrown out so often, and mostly by white people. The Clintons know this and they knew this would get people up in arms.

He is a cynical man and is using race to try and make a comeback in S.C. It is a short term strategy with long term effects on the party. When this is over we will see a realignment of factions - and it won't be good.

What the children don't seem to realize is that Peggy and her press buddies are pushing the race divide in order to create that split. When they see the polls showing Obama with 10% support from white voters in S.C. they are peeing in their pants with glee. Their hope - 0% support from white voters. These people get up early every morning, check for Obama's white support decline, pour a cup of coffee, and get on the phone and online to celebrate. Their goal is to spread the white support decline across the country. Success to them is splitting out the AA support going forward.

Another thing many don't realize - older liberal Democrats who have been involved in movement politics all of their life are very angry about Obama's selfish behavior.

If anyone is using "code" (as you say), this quote from Bill Clinton is nothing more than a clarion call to all white supporters to vote against Obama:


In Dillon, S.C., according to the Associated Press, on Thursday Mr. Clinton "predicted that many voters will be guided mainly by gender and race loyalties" and suggested he wife may lose Saturday's primary because black voters will side with Mr. Obama. Who is raising race as an issue? Bill Clinton knows. It's the press, and Mr. Obama. "Shame on you," Mr. Clinton said to a CNN reporter. The same day the Web site believed to be the back door of the Clinton war room unveiled a new name for the senator from Illinois: "Sticky Fingers Obama."

Unfortunately, it's taken hold. I'll say this for BC, no one can play in the sewer as well he can, except maybe Karl Rove.

Clintons because they win, and when they win Repukes lose. It's as simple as that.

believing her crapola.

Think for yourself and if come to that conclusion--fine--but leave her off the board.

of truth even when it comes from unsavory characters such as Peggy Noonan?

:wtf: We are not The Borg.

You must have confused The Democratic Party with The Republicans?

Now I know that Bill Clinton's DLC and all his shameless "triangulation" that has moved *our* Party to the right may give one pause. :shrug: However, WE ARE DEMOCRATS not kool-aid drinking, lock step Republicans.

Even someone as ethically detestable as Peggy Noonan can "pick up on the truth" once in a while. In fact, when the "other side" reveals segments of our party's smarmy underbelly (The DLC's stranglehold of our party), it should be a fucking WAKE UP CALL. :wow:

But instead, you keep those DLCer partisan blinders (The Clintons do *no wrong* because the republicans abused them during the 90s) firmly affixed.

Bravo, but the rest of us won't blithely ignore everything from "the opposition" ESPECIALLY when there's a vein of truth to their assertions. :(

The Clintonian DLC is totally trashing our party and causing division that will not be bridged in the near future. Damn, just perhaps a silver lining can appear when we kick the DLC wing of the party out after a 3rd F**king General Election loss.

Newsflash: The Clintons and their DLC are NOT Gods. The American People have had enough of BOTH the Clinton and Bush cronies in OUR Executive Branch. We want new blood. I hope that person will be Obama, but it sure as shit won't be "a Clinton" ... not with all their baggage and the fact that many FORMER Clinton Supporters are jumping ship, i.e., a Clintonian DLC in the Executive Branch is equivalent to that of an RNC-lite one. :shrug:

Last night, I think it was Romney that said something about Clinton's baggage and "who wants to go through that again" or words to that effect. He got a big response. It was disgusting but also sort of alarming at the same time.

as long as they attack Clinton, DUers LOVE Peggy and her cohort.

Always prefaced by "I never thought I would agree with..." :puke:

a mediawhore if there ever were one. This is becoming too damn comical. Step back a moment and ask yourself, "truthfully" now just what have the Clintons done to tear this party apart? Race, was injected first when Obama said "race" in commenting about something, take your pick of either Clinton. Then it gets hyped by those surrogates of obama and then enlisting the help of more than eager mediawhores which was fed this crap, they, mediawhores ran with it, printed it, spoke it and before you know it, you have the Clintons long advocates for civil rights for all, especially black folk, turned into bigots and racist.

But when the mediawhores quote every silly sombitch with something bad to say about the clintons and not once ask the one man that is respected above all that walked and talked and bleed for the civil rights movement, Rep. John Lewis, I and so many others realized this was one clusterfuck caused by the mediawhores themselves. Obama is to blame for this and should take responsibility for his part in it, but obama will not but that is alright, because the nation has got a better look at obama and basically not liking what they have seen. Mr Lewis said "I must tell you...I'm trying to set the record straight...the Obama camp is doing something else, theyr'e sending out memos to the media trying to suggest that the Clintons are playing the race card." and "President and Senator Clinton have a record, a history, a very long history of bringing people together. No right thinking American would ever think that Senator or President Clinton would ever do anything that would use the race card"

Just like President Clinton said in his last lil' row with the media, or as wolf blitzer tried so hard to suggest president clinton "hammered" and "lashed out" at cnn's Yelin when anyone that watched the whole exchange saw president clinton speaking in a tone to castigate the reporter for asking such a question and said, "those people in there that come out to find out how this will affect their lives never bring this up. You bring it up those the obama camp feeds you this and you run with, but this election is about those people in there, and people here in south carolina, but none of that will be on the television becasue you want to talk about this".

Yes, if I had not seen all this and heard this all play out for the last 2 weeks I still would not take the word of mediawhore Peggy Noonan.

*Yeah, plug your ears and close your eyes!?! Yes, it makes the hair stand on the back of my neck when, I concur, a media whore like Peggy Noonan picks up on "a vein of truth." Now that is way f**king creepy, but it doesn't detract from the fact that The Clintonian DLC has gone way too far IF you are a Democrat who does not appreciate *stolen elections.* :thumbsdown:

Cute

I am waiting for you guys to agree with him

:-)

The Clintons are in this for the Clintons and no-one else..

The real fairy-tale is that she's the candidate of "change"...If you believe that, you MUST have inhaled...