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I think Clinton is going to win it all.

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water Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:26 PM
Original message
I think Clinton is going to win it all.
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 12:28 PM by water
As much as I want Obama to win, I think that Edwards' dropping out was the nail in the coffin.

For better of for worse, it just doesn't look good when 80% of blacks vote lockstep for Obama, who is half-black. It provides fuel to the argument that this is now a racial campaign, which further will polarize the electorate.

I assume that Edwards' voters were a majority white. With him out of the primaries, and the primaries becoming more and more divided along racial lines, I assume that his black supporters will (for the most part) migrate to Obama's camp, while his white supporters will (for the most part) migrate to Clinton's camp.

Now, imagine that Obama wins the primaries on high black-turnout. Would that work in the general election? I sense a Reagan-esque beating if he'll need to rely on that strategy in the general election.

Speaking of the general election...

A poll shows that McCain easily beats both of our front-runners. Oh no...

I can't even imagine Obama trying to beat McCain!

I'm starting to think that Clinton has the best shot here, and I may end up supporting her. What do you think about all of this?
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think we need to root for Obama.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. You're only looking at South Carolina. Obama won whites in IA and was a close 2nd in NH.
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water Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I'm looking at Florida, which is the most recent
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Obama didn't campaign there. Relax.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Obama didn't campaign there. The only thing people really knew about him
was that he was black and running for President; people generally don't pay close attention until the candidates begin campaigning in their state.
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water Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Candidates don't have to campaign in your state for you to know about them...
...but I hope you end up being right. What was Nevada like?
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. you don't know what Nevada is like? When did you start paying attention?
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 12:37 PM by cryingshame
Nevada and the other primaries weren't that long ago/
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water Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. No no no, I know what happened there, I don't know the racial divide!
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. Ooh, so you're a "libertarian"? Try Ron Paul
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Don't *have* to, but they generally do. There are huge shifts once people begin campaigning. Look
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 12:37 PM by Occam Bandage
at Florida on the Republican side--Rudy was handily winning until McCain and Romney showed up to campaign a couple weeks ago; Rudy finished in a distant third place.
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water Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Good point, there's definitely an increase in media coverage. But I was under the impression...
...that Obama has been getting insane amounts of free and positive coverage anyways, one of the reasons I was supporting him.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. CNN coverage is nothing like a campaign. It doesn't have to do with media coverage.
People don't know jack shit about the issues in the CNN phase of an election; it's 100% branding, fluff and momentum. The problem is, while that can influence decisions, it's all at a very vague level. What occurs in a state is incredibly important to the final decision--otherwise they wouldn't be spending the scores of millions of dollars, now would they?

And you were supporting Obama because he got good media coverage? Sorry, but that's not exactly believable. You're starting to sound like a concern troll.
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water Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Yes, I felt he was the best person to keep the Republicans from holding the Presidency...
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 12:56 PM by water
...and I felt that the positive coverage would help that.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Sure.
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JorgeTheGood Donating Member (736 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
34. that's bull ...
BO became a very high profile person when he gave his now famous speech at the dem convention.

People in FL don't know who he is ???? What an insult to the fine folks of FL.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Yeah, they knew he existed and knew he could give a speech. If you think that's all that's
necessary to run a campaign, why do they bother?
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. Even though I was supporting John Edwards, I said
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 12:28 PM by BlackVelvet04
2 years ago Hillary Clinton WILL BE the next president of the United States.

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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Two words:
Michael Bloomberg.

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. From your lips to God's ears!!!
I'm hopeful, but still nervous about the whole thing. I hope that next Tue. will provide a clearer picture.
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. I think it is very likely
Hillary is in the drivers seat. If Hillary can grab the majority of delegates on super tuesady, Obama I'm sure will stay in due to his stuborness but it will be a losing fight.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. It all depends on turnout - against McCain.
If democrats overwhelm then it does not matter what the polls say.
The polls just represent the percentage of a sample of people.
But if 50% of ,say, 1 million turnout for McCain
and 45% of 2 million turnout for the Democrat
then Democrats win.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. Why do you keep posting this kind of thing?
Are you a closet Hillary supporter?
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water Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. This is the first time I've posted anything remotely like this. What do you mean?
My main goal is getting the Republicans out. If Obama isn't the best choice, I don't have any reason to support him anymore. He's just a politician.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. I think those who still care are screwed.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
12. I think you should support who you really think is the better person
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 12:34 PM by Bread and Circus
and the better candidate.

Clinton has strong built-in support from women and whites, both of which are a majority.

Obama has a strong uphill climb, always has.

Obama has done an amazing thing to get this far.

If I had to be money, Clinton will win this nomination.

I think Obama could win if he gets Edwards, Gore, and Carter to endorse him as that would in effect be a "no confidence" vote in Hillary but it's not going to happen.

I think Edwards will endorse Clinton which will be funny because he's the "anti corporate" guy who's going to springboard the quintessential (?sp) establishment corporate candidate to the nomination. If you really want to know Clinton, check her earmark record, it's funny.

Nader will hop in

Bloomberg may hop in.

McCain will be extremely hard to beat as long as the surge can still be spun as "going well".

Clinton will take a hard right turn in the GE and many here will be left with WTF?!?!? emotes and smilies.

She may win it all because the Clinton's are some wily and crafty sumbitches.

However, no one who really cares about change will win.

That's what I predict.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
15. Um, Clinton just beat McCain in FLORIDA. n/t
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water Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. True, but that may be because she beat Obama THAT badly
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. you've been told Obama didn't campaign in person in FL. You don't know what happened in Nevada.
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 12:39 PM by cryingshame
You spout the racist crap.

Color me skeptical.
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water Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. I DO know what happened in Nevada, just not the racial divide!
And what "racist crap" are you talking about? Chill out!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. I think that's apples and oranges. The Democrats are mobilized
while the Republicans seem not to really like any of their candidates -- that's what I meant. It doesn't seem likely to me that McCain can beat any of our candidates.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Closed primaries don't tell you shit; the GE hinges on both turnout and independents.
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book_worm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. Well, with what you write I wonder if you were a real Obama supporter
to start with?
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water Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. I was more anti-Republican than pro-Obama. I felt he had the best chance, and now I don't.
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bidenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
22. no insult intended...
But you sound awfully like a Hillarian posing as an Obamaniac.
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HughLefty1 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. I honestly thought Edwards would somehow pull it out...
First off I'm as disappointed as anyone concerning Edwards.

With that said, McCain does seem like the toughest GOP candidate come November especially if we get further split as a party during these primaries. I can see alot of moderate Dems even crossing over to vote for McLame. It wouldn't shock me to see my parents switch over if things get really ugly between Barack and Hillary during the next few months...Bottomline this is our opportunity to seize the WH but we need to get our act together and stop the fighting.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
31. I think that Hillary has no chance of beating McCain
My biggest fear with Hillary is that she will so motovate the republicans and centrist independents that we will lose congress as well as the presidency.
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
33. There is no way the other candidate will take enough states other
than a couple southern ones, to beat the delegate race.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
35. I don't pay any attention to nationwide polling. They have NO
relevance to electability, which is a matter of state-by-state numbers and electoral votes.

Nationwide polls ARE, however, a useful tool to manipulate public opinion.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
39. i think clinton can easily beat mccain if dems decided to support her
i also think obama has some chance of beating mccain

we can win this so long as we support our candidates.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
40. Obama can beat McCain, Clinton can't
That's my sense of it. Don't believe those polls--especially not before they post the margin of error. Have you been watching polls for very long? Every election I've followed had polls with the opposite result getting published right up to election day.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
41. I disagree. I think many who were attracted to the anti-poverty anti-corporate
message are now natural Obamaites.
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