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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:30 PM
Original message
Have You Downloaded the HRC Healthcare Plan?
Edited on Thu Jan-31-08 08:31 PM by CorpGovActivist
Does Hillary actually *use* healthcare?

I've had a chronic illness (Crohn's) since I was 16. http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/americanhealthchoicesplan.pdf">This healthcare plan falls apart at the seams, split right down the spine, the moment it meets reality.

- Dave

P.S. Thankfully, the PDF is copy and pasteable, making it very easy to annotate with point-by-point critiques, using the same fonts and layout.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. how does Obama's hold up for you?
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Simple, Actually...
... he has his earbones working more than his jawbone, and they're all connected to what We the Patients have to say.

The policy bone is connected to the earbones.

- Dave
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. You like his health proposals better than Hillary's for most situations?
:shrug:
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. I Like a Doctor...
... who keeps up with the latest research, not a doctor who is stuck in a time warp in the treatments s/he prescribes.

Obama's approach has street cred in the here, now, and future.

- Dave
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. oaky she's all talk, but where do you find his policy better than hers
For the record, I'm very interested as I have a son with Autism. We have a very good healthcare plan through my husband's company (that we pay for through the nose) but little to none of his care is covered.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Obama's Insurance Exchange
will require every policy to have a defined set of benefits so nobody will have insurance that doesn't pay anymore. He'll also have real premiums subsidies as well. I think his plan is for people.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. thanks for the info, I think I'll take a closer look
We've had battles with the insurance company...first they'll say they'll pay and then they don't. It's the same story I'm sure everyone has heard before. But I know first hand how it could ruin someone.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I Have Some Handy Resources for Winning Those Battles...
... anytime you wanna talk on the phone, please let me know, or shoot me a PM.

- Dave
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. AutismSpeaks Organizers and I Have Bumped into Each Other...
... on Capitol Hill quite a few times. They're extraordinary.

:hug:

Have you made it here for one of their events?

- Dave
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. No I haven't but would love to do so
Used to live in NoVA but haven't been back since we went on our first expat assignment. Love the area.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. You're Very Welcome Here...
... if you ever decide to attend one.

:hug:

The AutismSpeaks organizers I've met are deeply passionate, fun-loving in their activities, and just a joy.

My mom works with kids with learning disabilities, including kids with medium to severe autism.

How old is he?

- Dave
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GalleryGod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
34. Well,Said. Along with IWR vote & Levin Amendment vote= Death spiral
Maybe......


Billsez" Teddy sucks on Education!" as he panders to teachers unions in AZ.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hillary for all her claims of expertise in the health care field
really doesn't get it. She's going to get nothing done again in the next eight years unless she lets HR 676 pass through Congress without vetoing it, but I don't think she will because she's too beholden to the for profit health care industries that are propping her up.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Her FEC Filings...
... tell the tale there.

- Dave
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. Care to be more specific?
Are you sure that none of the 250 plans available to members of Congress would work for you?
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. To give the 250 plans available to Congress to every citizen at large would
be prohibitively expensive and no Congress red or blue will pass it. This is what happened to her first plan. Why is it that repeating failure seems to be a given in Washington no matter which party is in charge when it comes to something as simple as improving and extending Medicare to everyone, a program that works and is efficient? All it needs is proper funding and funding it will be far less costly than letting all the insurance companies have a feeding frenzy at the Treasury trough.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Both she and Edwards have shown how it can be paid for -- through
Edited on Thu Jan-31-08 08:58 PM by pnwmom
a combination of lowering costs (by negotiating with drug companies, for example) and rolling back the tax cuts on the top 1%.

And Paul Krugman, the Princeton economist who writes in the NYTimes, thinks the plans are workable.

I would have no problem with single payer, or Medicare for all -- but I think it has less chance of being passed than HRC's or Edwards' plans.

P.S. Here's a link to an article Krugman wrote about Obama's plan vs. Clinton's.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/07/opinion/07krugman.html
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
32. Is that the Krugman "Obama hit piece" that got him flamed to death? Good overview of their proposals
...and Obama clearly loses 100% on this one.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. Lieberman (of All People) Leads Hillary ...
... on http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=lieberman+federal+employees+domestic+partnership+benefits">extending DP benefits to Federal Employees, and Federal Employee healthcare is a frequent topic of conversation in the back sections of The Washington Post.

Hillary is way over-rated for her expertise on this policy issue. Members of Congress do NOT have real-world experience on healthcare appeals. Their policies are flagged for no problems.

- Dave
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. So? You still haven't said why one of those 250 plans
wouldn't work for you.

I'd be happy to know that I'd have that kind of choice if I needed it.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. When She Can Come out...
... and say that you and I will have our policies flagged the same way that Members of Congress' policies are flagged - i.e., pay for anything and everything, no questions asked - then come talk to me about her hopelessly naive take on this.

If you've never been through a denial of coverage appeal, please say so.

- Dave
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Why is her plan any more "naive" than people who think
single payer will get through Congress?
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. You're Right...
... she isn't inspirational enough to push that thru, not by a longshot.

- Dave
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demo dutch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. It's no better than Obama's. So I we'll be out of luck on both!
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. What Are Your Biggest Healthcare Concerns? n/t
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demo dutch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #19
30. A non-profit single payer system, no mandates,coverage for all. Along the lines of a European system
Edited on Fri Feb-01-08 08:12 AM by demo dutch
Thank god I have no major healthcare concerns
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
17. Nope my hard drive isn't big enough...
...there are so many carve-outs and holes in it...
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. But It's So All Purpose...
... it might even cure it of spyware, adware, and prevent all known viruses.

It's the Immaculate Plan, dontcha know?

HillaryCare Null.0.

- Dave
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
22. Neither plan gets everyone covered like a single-payer plan would.
It's a draw. Who it benefits most really depends on which income bracket you fall under.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Single Payer...
... didn't get a warm reception, judging by her frosty demeanor.

- Dave
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
26. both of them using 'Universal health care'
makes me sick.

it's not universal if it includes the insurance subuccuses.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. The candidates with real universal health plans that would
work were Dennis Kucinich and John Edwards who are no longer with us. Dennis signed onto John Conyers bill HR676 which extends an improved Medicare to everyone. Right now it's stuck in committee. Whenever Clinton or Obama become President we have to badger them to approve this bill. It's the one we need as a nation. Hillary is just going to have to give up her corporate shilling in this instance.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
31. this is not an endorsement of anyone's plan, just mentioning
something we have to keep in mind when looking at campaign platforms/promises..

the campaign promise/platform seldom looks the same once it's enacted.

a proposal has to go through house/senate committees, have amendments attached, voted on, revised, and then versions reconciled before it even hits a president's desk

so all I'm saying the end product is going to be very different from the original proposal

when I look at a campaign platform/promise, I see it as a starting place, not the finish. I ask myself - not WILL "x" do this, but rather are they able and willing to follow through with it.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. I like a doctor who ...
... listens when s/he asks: "Where does it hurt?"

- Dave
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. me too
but as you know there's a big difference between what the diploma on the wall says and how the doc really practices
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UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
33. You should look at it closer
This is why the medical folks are endorsing her. Her health care plan covers pre-existing conditions and it is a good plan, in my opinion.
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Yossariant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Indeed. Paul Krugman analyzes them and doesn't like Obama's plan at all. Link:
The Mandate Muddle

By PAUL KRUGMAN

Published: December 7, 2007

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/07/opinion/07krugman.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
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