I liked Obama tonight. If he will renounce McClurkin and live up to his claims

and rhetoric of support for GLBT issues, I will be happy to vote for him in November. - especially as the VP for Hillary.
That would ensure 16 years of wonderful Democratic rule.

And that is why I will not vote for him.

Plain and simple.

McClurkin believes that being gay can be cured.

Obama believes this as well, since he hires this "preacher" to be his warm-up act.

Do the google on McClurkin and see what you find.

Just because Obama hires someone who believes in X does not mean that Obama believes in X.

You can conclude that perhaps Obama is a shrewd politician who believes that the ends justify the means when it comes to obtaining votes.

But you can't conclude that he believes in X because McClurkin believes in X.

It doesn't work.

means.

You are absolutely correct in that.

Obama hired a filthy gay-bashing preacher to garner votes and it worked in South Carolina.

Obama hired McClurkin in order to garner votes. It worked.

How clever of Obama.

No thanks.

SNIP-

The concert was to be the highlight of this outreach and while the crowd left excited, it was clear the campaign still regarded the controversy as complicated. Aides gave reporters a three-page memo detailing McClurkin's and Obama's views on gay rights that noted in capital letters "MCCLURKIN DOES NOT WANT TO CHANGE GAYS AND LESBIANS WHO ARE HAPPY WITH THEIR LIVES AND HAS CRITICIZED CHURCH LEADERS WHO DEMONIZE HOMOSEXUALS," with quotes detailing those statements from the singer.

The next paragraph then stated "OBAMA DOES NOT AGREE WITH MCCLURKIN'S VIEWS ON GAYS."

-SNIP

So it seems to me (from this piece) his aides were trying to get the message out that Obama does not agree with this man on some of his views where the gay community is concerned. You write that Obama will not renounce him therefore you won't vote for him.

Can you be more specific so that I may understand something I'm just now hearing about?

Thanks. (edited due to messy memory)

... says he is against the GLBT community, as much as him speaking of Reagan wouldn't lead him to be a Reaganite. To change hearts and minds he's going to need all Americans with him, not against him. McClurkin may renounce Barack with time but I don't think he'll try to shun anyone but try to brign them round to our way of thinking diplomatically. Barack diplomatically speaking is the Thom Harmann of the senate. He give both sides a fair crack of the whip, but trys to persuade folks round to our way of thinking.

As a gay man, having read Obama's statements and record, I absolutely believe he is with me on GLBT issues. I do not need Obama to kick people out of the room who do not agree with him on all issues. I need him to speak up in defense of GLBT issues in church, in stump speeches and on his website. He's done all of that.

I've seen too many mistakes on the GLBT side when we insist that everything and everyone be all or nothing all the time. Obama has said he doesn't agree with McClurkin on this. He has proven that he is willing to speak out for GLBT issues. I don't think he has to or should kick out every person who disagrees out of the room. If he does that, guess what - he doesn't have a chance to change their minds.

By "that" I mean giving the false choice of Obama's decision to include McClurkin as a major representative of his at a campaign event with that of "kicking out every person who disagrees out of the room." What? There is a lot of wiggle room between the two action points here. I don't expect or demand that everyone who supports a candidate of my choosing to be as progressive as I am on the GLBT issues, but I do expect and demand sound enough judgement by the candidate not to choose as his representative someone who claims gays and lesbians are killing the country's children and that homosexuality is something to be saved from. I also absolutely demand that when he does make such a bigoted, hurtful decision, that he own up to his mistake and apologize for it. Obama has not and does not deserve the support of GLBTs or their supporters.

I have plenty of respect for myself and I'd bet hard money I've done more to advance the rights of gay people than most here on DU. I've been published. I've given speeches. And YES, I have changed people's minds.

I have seen the value of allowing people to speak their minds without ATTACKING them. When you allow someone to speak, they usually allow you to speak. That's how conversations begin. Obama disagrees with McClurkin and he has said so. No, he didn't kick him off the stage and he didn't apologize for having him participate. He DID explain that he vehemently disagrees though. And I haven't seen McClurkin appear at another event. Have you?

Obama has spoken to national audiences about his stance with GLBT citizens.

Why am I bothering replying? The disgusting personal insult is so disrespectful and unwarranted and over-the-top, I'm done. No wonder our country is so divided. I'm disgusted.

I have no other explanation for it.

It's vicious and despicable and I will not vote for Obama until he apologizes for this filthy slur on the gay community.

That is to say, it probably isn't going to happen anytime soon.

at a "gospel concert". The same can't be said for the clusterf**k in Iraq. Besides, as other posters have said, Obama has already addressed this. Apparently, not to your satisfaction, and I'm thinking it never will be.

Please.

McClurkin's hate filled views are just as dangerous to children as some war on a far away continent.

disturbing numbers coming from the State Dept about Iraq Vet suicides...highest in decades, and we know who shares the blame for that.

No candidate is perfect, so if you're holding Obama to a different standard on this single issue, then that's between you & your conscience; or lack thereof. Doesn't change the fact that HRC still hasn't seen fit to apologize for her IWR.

plus in the MTV event.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/alexokrent/CnPz

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/alexokrent/C5zH

He believes communication and respect is the way to change people's minds.

He is parsing his words and trying to have it both ways.
Some people do not believe a place at the table for discussions.
Rabid homophobes, and the KKK come to mind.

He never will apologize to the GLBT people in this country.

He knowingly hires a filthy gay basher just to garner votes. How...nice.

As a speak on GLBT issues, I have changed many, many people on their stance on equal rights. How? By treating them with respect, inviting them to get to know me and making my points without disrespecting them.

One guy who was passionately anti-gay came up to me years later to thank me for starting to open his mind. By slamming the door in people's faces, you harden their positions. Shortsighted.

WTF is it. He fucking addressed McClurkin months ago. Dosent agree with his views, didnt tell McClurkin to get up on stage and rant... WTF do you want Obama to do?

He said he didn't agree with him, but that all voices need to be heard.
That doesn't cut it for me.

he says he's an "ex~gay" but he is still having sex with men. Maybe he's having sex with them because he was "raped when he was a kid"? That, none of us will know, but he's lying about his sexuality right now. The only thing we do know is that he hates other gay people. That is un~acceptable.

and that is NOT all he did on stage.

about your homosexual views! Go for it baby!"

Is Obama's judgment so bad that even after the warnings of several prominent GLBT rights groups he couldn't see this coming?

only those who agree with your position? I'm no McClurkin fan, but I hardly see how Obama can be held to account for McClurkin's views.

accountable for giving a platform to those views.

that most people just won't buy it. Obama has made his position quite clear on this issue, more than once. If this is the issue you've embraced to justify your distaste of Obama, then so be it. But I have all the faith in the world that he wants to unify the country, and that includes the GLBT community.

Has anyone investigated the many black preachers who have endorsed, and stood on stage with HRC? I'll bet you'd be amazed at what you find out.

It was Obama's poor choice that made me turn against him.

extra votes. It was wrong and I am sorry for pandering to the baser instincts of humanity just to cash in some political capital."

That would be a start. Although, I seriously doubt that BHO comes anywhere near to supporting the civil rights of gay people.

I guess I really think in the scheme of things, Iraq is a bigger deal. But, that's my opinion, and where I will cast my vote.

Barack and Hillary offer similar positions on GLBT issues.

On the Iraq War, they took different positions and had Obama's prevailed, this country and Iraq would be in better shape right now.

That's why McClurkin is not as significant an issue to me (since their positions on issues related to that are so similar) while the positions on Iraq are more important.

position on Iraq.

and that has made the most difference.

garner more votes.

McClurkin is a despicable hate-monger who thinks that gay people can be "cured".

If, as a purported Liberal, that does not deeply disturb and offend you, you have no business claiming to be a Democrat.

I am not wrong to say something is more important to me in making a decision.

It's right for you, wrong for me. Iraq is more of a deciding factor than McClurkin. Get a clue.

And you can live with yourself?

You can actually be proud of Obama, after the filthy McClurkin shenanigans.

You really believe that gay people can be "cured"?

I simply said since their policy positions were the similar and their judgements on Iraq were different and hers far more harmful than his, that Iraq would be a better deciding factor than who Obama has stumping for him. If everything were equal, I would take the candidate that did not have McClurkin --but all things are not equal among them.

And stop straw manning my positions. You are a ridiculous person that needs to be cured of your ridiculousness. Whatever your sexuality is fine with me.

my sexuality.

And how charming that you use the words "cured" when discussing gay rights.

I don't judge your sexuality and it's not my place to do so.

But I can judge that you argue unfairly, make presumptuous statements about other posters that are essentially misrepresentations of what you can simply read in their statements. You accuse people like me of saying things I never said and when confronted, you accuse me of intending some message that I neither intended nor explicitly said.

Please keep it up, you are helping the Obama campaign.

Bible thumping cruddies that think they can excuse away their Saturday nights of sin and debauchery by yelling praise the lord, the devil made me do it, Sunday mornings.

And if you don't vote for him in November because of it, your six kinds of an a%&*(%^. I'll vote for her even though she's complicict in the deaths of nearly a million people.

Even for you that is a vile and error ridden post.

And I'm drinking hot cocoa. So shove it with your fucking insinuation.

Enjoy your cocoa.

I don't have any illusions about anyone who runs for president. And of course, I never fucking said it was a good thing. you just pulled that out of your nether regions. And it's the predictable shit that always comes from such places.

Wow. Will wonders never cease?

Cali actually admits that Obama is "politically calculating" in his hiring of anti-gay warm-up acts.

I can't believe what I am seeing. You are edging ever closer to reason. Keep it up.

are supporting Hillary. There is the occasional Obama supporter but for the majority, they have endorsed her.

I don't think he would make a good VP

The McClurkin thing was brought up and an interesting conversation ensued. One guy talked about how it was becoming an issue in the community and several people he knew had questioned whether they could support Obama because of it. Another man, who was gay, said that he was glad that Obama was reaching out to people like McClurkin and had included him in the concert. He said that many in the LGBT community agreed with him. I was surprised because I've been cocking my ear for this, because it's been so discussed on the blogs but I hadn't heard much about it IRL. Well apparently it has been discussed quite a bit and there isn't a concensus on it. An African American lesbian who was there talked about how she felt torn about it because she had a stake in the gay and black communities. But she was disappointed in Obama for not doing the right thing and wasn't sure if she could vote for him.

I've taken (and dished out) a lot of shit because of McClurkin on this board. But tonight made me realize that I should let the communities that are affected by it work it out.

Wow.

Just..wow.

Are you asking if they agree with the homophobes Clinton has gotten endorsements from and hired as consultants too?

Nah, probably not. It's all double standards all the time for you guys.

I have no fucking idea what you're getting at. I just reported what someone said. Maybe it doesn't fit in with your idea of what people are supposed to think about something. That's YOUR problem, not his.

"Another man, who was gay, said that he was glad that Obama was reaching out to people like McClurkin and had included him in the concert. He said that many in the LGBT community agreed with him."

From your post.
I am trying to figure out what you are saying, because it can be taken several different ways.

He was saying they supported Obama reaching out to McClurkin, not that they supported his views.

You used "he" and "him" several times in a row and it was hard to follow who what person was agreeing with whom.