Is Hillary's smugness an issue? I think so.

Now that the campaign has gotten down to personalities over real issues, the personal style and history of candidates becomes more important.

Not only is the candidate representing himself or herself, he/she is also the public face of the Democratic Party.

I realize a lot of people here think Hillary is wonderful personally. I must admit I kinda like her myself.

However, as the face of the Demnocratic Party, IMO she represents an image we have to shake off. The only word I can use is "smug." Elitist.

Hillary has led a charmed life. I realize she wasn't born in a big mansion, but she is not the product of a log cabin either. With her gifts and some lucky breaks she quickly ascended into the upper-middle class sphere and into the realm of politics that is above most of us average schmucks. And from there, riding on the coatails of her husband, she ascended into the stratosphere.

She may intellectually identify with the poor and middle class, but on a more fundamental level she is one of the elites. She is one of the political elites and she is one of the corporate elites.

That alone is not automatically a drawback. Many of our greatest politicians and leaders were from the elites.

But on her it shows. She knows what's best for us because she is one of the people who know best. She comes from the circles where Wall St. bigwigs look for ways to pillage the economy in a somewhat nicer way. Her husband goes to conferences with the upper echelons where they come up baroque plans to make right-wing free-market neo-liberalism somewhat kinder and gentler.

"I want to help you" she says. This implies that she is giving the rest of us some gift. Putting an extra chicken bone on the floor from the big table for us.

She calls herself a "servant" leader. Pulllese. If she really wants to be a servant, why not renounce the big house, the big book advances and the corporate cocktail parties and join us here in the grass roots without all of the fanfare and the perks of power?

Sure she's tough. But to what end? To what purpose? The perpetuation of status quo power ultimately.

Even though he has his own arrogance issues, I believe Obama is at least a chance for some fresh air from all of that. He has been in the trenches. He is serious. He does seem more like someone who is trying to lead a movement to allow us all to help ourselves and to help the nation.

The old paper is getting rather frayed.

it's the same old stuff is valuable, you know who to vote for.

Well.........is a very deep subject isn't it?

So does Obama, I'll admit.

If either one of them actually stood up and defended liberalism, that'd be a great start.

and I'm not a Hillary supporter.

:thumbsup: Not a supporter of either. And Obama is smug.

the other candidates. Obama comes off that way too sometimes...

Actually, the only one who ever comes off as humble, IMO, is McCain. I sure as hell ain't voting for him!

and I certainly don't consider Obama a breath of fresh air. When has Obama been in the trenches?

...and the state legislature is close to the trenches

All politics is local, as some may say. State Reps. and Senators don't get all the glory that their national counterparts do, but they play a key and integral role in our daily lives. Too many of us are quick to discount their impact and focus on the more glamerous but they are crucial to having our policies enacted on any level.

I'm so tired of having a president who smirks all the time...

Every time someone tries to make a point, she either laughs or gets a smirking smile on her face as though she thinks they don't know what they're talking about. At least Edwards and Obama look thoughtful and respectful when someone else speaks.

see the photos in this thread..

not to mention i dont think she is smug. she is confident and she should be.

and a long time ago, I recognized we could extend the peace and prosperity of the 90's. Why you would throw that away on a unknown who doesn't cooperate w/us when it counts is beyond me.

Please feel free to disagree about my perception of her smugness on its own terms.

But has nothing to do with gender.

Mitt Romney is smug.

Rep. Jan Schiakovsy (spelling?) is a very strong woman, but she is not smug.

a punch line. Your perception is warped by something.

But please don't go down that path of minimizing what SHE has done the past 40 years. JFK, RFK, Teddy, Gore, and Kerry all led charmed lives, more charmed than Hillary's. Ditto FDR.

It's dirty pool, and I don't go for that against Hillary or any Democratic standard bearer.

Confidence, smugness - sides of the same coin, viewed through the prism of one's own perception.

Give it a rest, it really is tiresome. We're lucky to have the two candidates we have.

"Any criticism of Hillary is sexist."

I was not equating strength with smugness.

There are many very strong women I can think who do not also project smugness.

Any criticism of a Clinton is a Republican tactic

Calling a fellow Democrat "smug" is a cheap shot, imo.

Are you for real? Obama almost has the same smirk as Bush. But, really why should Hillary give up her home? Will obama?

Sure ya do Obama girl....

Admit you like her in order to get away with a FLAMING TITLE?

Obama is arrogant to, He is selling his "change" campaign...only thing chnging is his Rezko story!

But it goes beyond the smug look reminiscent of the Georg Bush smirk, which seems to have been erased from his face lately.

I agree that it is difficult sometimes for a woman to come across as confident, rather than arrogant. And, she's reasonably smart, and she knows what she knows. She comes across as feeling entitled to the job, though, and I think that comes from being one of the powerful for so long. She and McCain are acting the same way in that regards.

We've read the discussions about the disturbing cackle laugh, and even chalk that up to nervousness or anger in being challenged, she just seems not to be able to help herself. I'm sure she's heard that it's annoying...by now. But the combination of the arrogant, smug look and the dismissive, sarcastic laughter, carries the significance of something else to me.

I have become increasingly annoyed by women legislators that look they have gone to speech school, with artificial hand gestures and contrived pauses. And whether it's a guy or girl legislator, I feel like I am going to scream the next time I hear one of them say, "As I travel around this (country) (state), and talk to the (little) people, blah, blah, blah...." Like they're doing us a favor or something. It's their job for Christ's sake. It's the language and gestures (posturing) of the past and it's just inappropriate on some many levels.

I am horrified by the prospect of John McCain becoming President even though noone has paid more "dues." Hillary has paid her "dues."

Unfortunately, for them, their time has come and gone. It's time to try something new, and it's going to happen. After having participated in campaigns for thirty years, I have never seen the level of interest or involvement, that I think will carry over through the conventions and into the general election.

As for Obama, (and Huckabee for that matter), he speaks plainly. He avoids outdated, artificial, over-used, tired establishment, meaningless bullshit, phonyisms like "my fellow Americans" and "God Bless." He takes every opportunity to talk to the issues. Truly, I have been looking for an excuse to vote for Hillary, especially being a woman myself. I can't forgive her for her aggressiveness in pushing support for the war, but beyond that, I think she's stuck in a time warp. I think she's too wrapped in the trappings of power to "get it." Obama gets it. She's a great senator.

That's exactly what I was referring to.

toward Hillary, and she made the comment last night that she seemed to always have a smug look on her face when someone else was talking.

My wife never says anything negative about Hillary, except last night.

(she looks shocked in this one)





Oh, and here's a good one of John pointing his finger at Obama...

Don't necessarily disagree with it. But yes her smugness is already causing her problems... see the Carolina plummet. She did a good job of keeping it out of her voice last night, but every time Obama spoke she sneered.

That worked really well for Gore. The media lambasted him for it.

I've watched I tihnk nearly all of the debates and Obama has smirked a few times... but HRC is smug smug smug. She has been from the beginning. Huge part of the reason for her ranking at the bottom of my choices out of all the dems.

I found that it was Obama who came off as the smerker last night...even my apolitical friend commented on it, and she's an undecided.


I think I wil find some screen shots...

saying, "Between Obama and I"

"Between Obama and me" is correct !

Gak ... splutter ... (head explodes). There, I've done it for you. You never have to listen to Limbaugh or watch FoxNoise again.