Let me explain to you guys why the right wing is attacking McCain so hard: this is important

I've seen a lot of theories on here. But it's about money.

You will see a big 'Vietnam Vets Against McCain' that is as harsh as the swiftboats guy, and it will be funded by the right. This is going to shock DU because they think the right will eventually back McCain. They will throw everything at him. Why?

The right wing power brokers are making an example out of McCain; setting a precedent if you will.

He voted against Bush's tax cuts for the rich...twice (this is the only real issue they care about, the immigration and social stuff is just a red herring). He has said he believes in climate change (energy industry has too much to lose here).

Notice how easily the insiders are able to forgive Romney/Rudy's flip flops and moderate liberal stances in the past? Why? They're issues that aren't economic. He flops on abortion and gay marriage and such. They don't actually care about this stuff at all.

They want to make all future generations of Republicans realize that, if you cross their economic interests, EVER, even once, they will mercilessly attack you and even support a Democrat above you (see Coulter).

On their part (the corporations that are behind these pundits), this is a very smart tactical move.

The next Republican who tries to do anything even halfway moderate, will be chilled to the bone about what they did to McCain.

A lot of people here think they will eventually rally around McCain when push comes to shove.

Will NOT happen. They will let him die, and go after him throughout the election. Going soft on him will set a precedent that it is acceptable to cross their economic interests.

They're too smart for that. They will let a Democrat win one election in order to make their party 'fall in line'.

Hillary/Obama is the next president.

They know the trend is moving left quickly so they're trying desperately to give their candidate some legs.

Nah, anything progressive reduces profits. This is about money, and always will be, until the end of time.

They're creating a red line you can't cross for other republicans in the future.

It's all about perception.

He's still a batshit insane repuke.

All they care about is control and forcing their insane agenda ... they'll lie, cheat and steal to do it.

to go after McCain in the General. Rush and Crew know this

Another factor might be the Dem takeover of congress in '06 - the repubs might want a Dem congress + Dem president, so they can blame them for everything that might happen. I wouldn't even put it past them to instigate something. MIHOP all over again.

wrong and that they won't go after him and that they will rally around him.

ezmoney

They are ratcheting it up, that's for sure.

The thing about the Vets attacking McCain, they aren't the swift boat vets. They're a completely different group that are out there all on their own. What will be interesting is if they start getting media time. Then you'll know the Bushies are in action. These are not the vets that brought Kerry down, he was totally prepared to deal with those nutballs and has for years.

That let me know he was the favored one.

behind Mitt. I think Romney creeps out even rich neocons, no small task.

The Pukes got nobody.

What if your analysis is correct and McCain is tossed overboard but Romney fails to congeal a workable base to launch the general election campaign? Wouldn't those who hate McCain be coughing up bucks to get Newt or someone in the race instead?

McCain, at least at this point, appears to be their nominee by default.

When I say the right, I don't mean the people. I mean the influence makers.

Hannity and Limbaugh and the Club for Growth and the think tanks were fully behind Romney.

The National review endorsed Romney early on and has been shilling for him hard.

They're definitely behind Romney, but they didnt have enough to push him through.

any Republican, let alone Romney.

Again, if "the influence makers" don't like McCain, they certainly don't seem to be all that visibly pro-Romney.

Lol sorry, I'm tired. I meant to type, the National Review, and somehow ended up typing the Nation

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316498,00.html

Rightwingers, that's true.

But do they wield any more influence on election outcomes than, say, the New Hampshire primary?

McCain is racking up some serious electoral momentum. Possibly Romney can upset him on Tuesday in enough states to sustain a rationale for his candidacy, but if the polling is accurate, Romney is gone Wednesday at noon, Feb. 6th.

He meant National Review.

I think The Nation endorsed Obama.

Do you know what his biggest fundraising zip code is? It's actually not the big money part of the repuke party that loaths him- though he's not their darling- it's the social conservatives. And what evidence do you have that party insiders have forgiven Romney? Most haven't. He's not supported by too many of them. And he's not raising money from them.

They are just that calculating, that demanding, that ruthless.

They prefer Hillary to McCain.

Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!

I'm an Obama guy, buy I don't think theyre cool with Hillary. But they're willing to let her 'hang herself' for 4 years if it means they can make an example out of McCain. Smart business people take a long view of things, and arent obsessed with the moment.

Hillary will have to do a lot of pro business things to stay alive, but it's not because she wants to, but HAS TO. IMO, her heart is in the right place, but the political climate is impossible for a true liberal without making a lot of concessions.

what makes you an Obama guy? I'm speaking as someone still on the fence.

They probably think Hillary will last four years anyways so after that time period they can resurrect Reagan's rotting corpse or something...

Who knows. They're insane. Reading Free Republican is like stepping into a freakshow....

Free Republic people are not a nature ally of them. In fact, they're not even your enemies. They're just people who aren't that smart. Most of them 'mean well', and truly believe the liberals want to destroy America (once again, because they're not that smart). But they're not your enemies.

They don't realize they are pawns of big business. Not at all. And the people I speak of have no affinity for freepers. Much as they have no affinity for the type of people who vote for Mike Huckabee.

I think it's a mistake that DU villanizes freepers. They're just the slow kids you went to highschool with, or well meaning religious mothers who want to protect their kids because they believe the 'gay agenda' will make little Timmy gay and he will get AIDS. They want Fred Thompson to be their ruler, not to make ExxonMobile rich, but to protect their guns and their culture.

The real threat is from the big business apparatus.

Why Obama now? I'm just curious.

I've been for Obama since I knew about him in 2004.

He's the greatest hope the left has had in a really long time, and I say this as an extreme cynic who thinks Obama the man, is a narcissistic opportunist.

But I don't care who he IS. I care what he can do. And what he can do is mesmerize and hypnotize voters into supporting things they don't even really support (independent, moderate republicans).

Forget Dennis or Edwards or Gravel. They wouldn't be able to rally public support for ANYTHING, and ultimately, that's what matters.

You might be wary that Obama talks a good game, but doesn't have your interests at heart.

I've read about everything I could about him (not from his book, since this is obviously written to make him look good).

As a psychologist, it's pretty clear to me that here's a guy who is really a crypto-leftist, but also under the belief that people are too stupid to be told the truth ; so we must lie to them and placate them with bullshit and sweet platitudes, but ultimately, shift their agenda to the left.

His narcissism makes him see himself as a very important person to pursue a social justice agenda. It will gratify his ego. It will also help the country, as a byproduct. Read where he's come from, who his influences are (Saul Alinsky), who his friends are in private. It's pretty clear this guy is a leftist through and through. He just doesn't want you to know that ;)

I don't think he will be able to get THAT MUCH accomplished due to mind control tactics the Republican machine has perfected that make Joe Public convinced anything slightly socialist is bad bad bad. But he can get more accomplished than Hillary or anyone else due to his Axelrod perfected persona.

A little bit is better than nothing.

Since you asked about Edwards. Interesting about him. I don't even think he has any political idealogy at heart. He's not really an intellectual IMO. He just likes to win elections and make money. Total fraud. No offense to Edwards lovers. Clear as day to me.

Funny thing, Hillary is way to the left of Edwards, in terms of what she thinks deep down inside. She's an intellectual like Obama. But personal codes and public personas rarely match in politics.

There's three major players in today's Republican Party. Big Money, Big Jesus and the Neocons. The old Goldwater and Rockefeller Republican types have been pretty much marginalized but are making a resurgence as John McCain's base.

"Big Money" usually gets its way in GOPland with a wink and a nod to the leaders of the "Big Jesus" wing, so they can supply the foot soldiers and voters that "Big Money" cannot get on their own. The Neocons usually side with "Big Money".

Romney is "Big Money's" guy, no question about it, but so far they haven't been able to swing the "Big Jesus" rank and file towards him. "Big Money" couldn't care less about religion so they failed to see that Evangelicals--who care about little else--would have trouble getting behind a Mormon--despite his fine business credentials. Huckabee with his Baptist street cred and populist rhetoric is taking chunks out of Romney's hide and making it possible for McCain to take the remnants of the Republican old guard, the Goldwater and Rockefeller crowd, add them to the old fashioned defense hawks (not so much the Neocons) and run the field.

If you listen to "Big Money's" mouthpieces like Rush Limbaugh, they are apoplectic over the idea that John McCain of all people--who is a moderate on economic issues--is winning. They want to take him down in the very worst way.

I think you're right, if McCain wins, the forces of "Big Money" will pay lip service but will essentially sit this one out and allow a Democrat to come into power. The "Big Jesus" wing may or may not back him

The Democrat, once he or she comes into office, will survey the wreckage, decide that all of those fine campeign promises he or she made cannot be done given the condition of the nation's treasury, raise taxes and in doing so, hand the Republicans a couple of big fat issues for 2010 & 2012.

Whew. It's seeming more and more like the election that's going to be hardest for Dems to win is 2012. By then the country will have had four more years of a Dem in the White House and possibly a Dem-majority Congress, and whatever isn't going well, the Repugs will blame it on Dems. And whatever isn't going their way they'll definitely blame on Dems.

Thing is, they'll have to come up with a candidate who will satisfy their various factions in order to win. Or at least somebody who really belongs to either Big Money, Big Jesus or the Neocons who is good enough at bullshitting members of the other groups into believing that he (and it WILL be a "he") is their best buddy. The trouble with the ones they have this time around seems to be that each of them, as you said, is squarely in one camp without being able to seduce the others into believing he has their best interests at heart.

Oh, and the old guard? By the next election they'll probably all be dead, or so close to it that nothing they believe in matters anymore.

Mark Sanford - governor of South Carolina (religious guy - check for Big Jesus, everything else, well he's a governor so he doesn't need to say much, so he can carve out whatever stance on money issues and defense that polls well in 2012

but he's a very good looking southerner so he will seem credible with what he says with his good hair: has a nice family and a stepford wife they will love'

OH, and he has a 'maverick' streak they say, wikipedia says, "While in Congress, Sanford was a staunch conservative (he garnered a lifetime rating of 92 from the American Conservative Union), but displayed an occasional independent streak. He often would be one of two members of Congress, along with Ron Paul, voting against bills that otherwise got unanimous support. He opposed pork barrel projects even when they benefited his own district"



That, 'independence', in terms of opposing pork, will play really huge in 4 years


John Thune could be in the mix, but itll be Sanford

Who are you and where do I get your newsletter? :D

kudos.

"corporatist."

;)