How can progressives help, but not for Kerry?

Many progressives are not happy with John Kerry, for whatever reason. They'll vote for him, but aren't (yet) inclined to donate or volunteer.

They still want to help. Let's make a list of other places to direct progressive energy:

- Local Congressional Races. Especially in the House, you see some real progressives running.

- State Races. One person can make a HUGE difference in these kind of races. You might even consider running yourself.

- MoveOn. More anti-Right, and anti-Bush than specifically pro-Kerry.

- ACLU. Donations to preserve our civil liberties.

More?

I seriously want the Democratic Party to either become the very left wing party, or cease to exist...I think Centrists should have their own political party.

I will vote for Kerry because I will give this broken down party one more shot.

will lead to 100%, eternal rule by the right.

I am not debating this.

because "bullshit" isn't an argument.

A left-wing party with 15%, a centrist party with 30% and a rightist party with 40% will result in the rightists winning every election. The right is cohesive. They stick together. That will always beat a splintered center/left.

Because the Right can and does often splinter just as much as the left wing. In a true multi party system an equal number of votes would go to an extreme right wing party as goes to an extreme left wing party. The libertarian Party is slowly getting it's way there.

scored .36 of one percent in the last presidential election.

The right can and does fracture just as much.

to show that your assertion is entirely false.

Point scored.

Reform Party candidate got 19%, most from the Repbulicans in 1992.

The Constitution and Libertarian party grow every year.

If the libertarian party grows ever year, and still scores .36 of 1%, then we have a few centuries before they gain any power.

The Reform Party was NOT a rightist party. It was CENTRIST! That's why it was able to gain a sizeable percentage of the vote.

Your assertion that the right is fractured is just plain wrong.

I countered your assertion that the right enver splinters, which isn't true.

I made no statement about the right being fractured at this moment.

I think there is emerging a Religious Right that have Republicans nervous. There may yet be a fracture...

seriously. The republican party will just toss them a bone occasionally (like the FMA) just like they've always done. The Christian Right/Republican alliance is still very very strong. That's the reason for the success of the RR - they picked a party and spent 20 years making it their own.

The left should do the same with the Democratic party.

but the Republicans didn't decide to give it to the religious right. The RR worked for 20+ years at it. They did NOT form a third party - they supported christian republicans at all levels of government. They organized think tanks and recruited candidates to present their agenda as mainstream.

They were organized, patient, efficient and single-minded. Everything the left is not.

The Corporacrats may have talked most of us into voting for them this time...But we know the whole ball of wax is melting very fast. We know the system is about to burst.

And I know for certain that if kerry doesn't win this time, that the far left will get their way in 2008

and on top of your schoolwork, and all!
Industrious.

What is astounding is not recognizing why those 2.7 million people voted against Dems in 2000.

Unrealistic idealism?
I question why you seemingly desire to change the Democratic Party. If you feel that it is hopelessly corrupt, there is already CPUSA and SPUSA. i too would like socialism in this country, but I don't make ridiculous demands that the Democratic Party be the agent of this change. The acceptance of the lesser of two evils does not make one evil. Honest.

To pacify the Socialists, years and years ago. The Democratic Party absorbed many of the ideas of the Socialist movement.

I would like the rest of the ideas explored, we are ready.

(eom)

And you can make a serious argument that after Buchanan's continued failures and the coronation of the hard right, that nobody is going to run if it hurts the party. And looking at the scorecard... Republicans have the White House, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court... there's no reason to challenge the top contenders from the party.

They actually know what's best for their party in major elections.

Why we fail to grasp this is beyond me.

Rp

You are the Messiah!

I know I am not the only one. In fact the Private responses I am getting confirm this for me.

I am sorry so many others are afraid to speak their mind, I am not.

your comments mark you as infected with the same plague as the ideological fanatics on the right.

its not that you are moral or immoral, no, its that the level of absolute certainty in your remarks are the bona fides that mark you as intolerant of the views of others, and that you have here and elsewhere attacked those who disagree with you as moraly inferior to you.


from your mouth comes the same attitude as religious fanatics.

The entire right WENT to the extreme right right along with Bush. The conservatives that are more centrist ARE more organized than the progressives are with the center Dems because they will swallow their pride EVERY TIME OUT and vote for their guy which is why nobody runs and does well against the Republican candidate and why Bush is solidly the only choice on the right.

Bush, Fox News, and Congressional members like DeLay, etc. have taken the party hard right all together. They don't float near the center anymore.

Even centrists like McCain are out there selling their soulds campaigning for the guy and the party with these positions. That says it all.

Rp

A vote for Kerry is a vote for Kerry...you don't get a vote+ for jumping up and down after the votes been cast.

I never made any such assertion.

I asserted having a splintered left/center will allow the cohesive right to win every election.

if they pull the lever next to Kerry's name in November.

if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing with me.

I thought that you were arguing that people should vote with vim and vigor or the RW will win. Maybe it was the 'Centrist' comment you were disagreeing with. Hmmmmm?!

In the General it really doesn't matter the leaning of the individual...as long as they pull the lever next to Kerry - Kerry gets the vote.

If we end up creating a Centrist Party along with Dem/Rep. don't you think it wouldn't be too long before Rep. splits to Mod. and RW?

a vote is a vote no matter who casts it.

My point was that the desire to create a leftist party separate from the Democratic party would do nothing to advance a leftist agenda. In fact, it would cripple it.

but it would remain a 'fringe' movement possibly

being in w/mainstream party does allow some ideals to make it into the platform.

but imagine if Judge Moore succeeds in starting a far-RW party (or at least the Religious Right that want him to start a far-RW party) wouldn't that cut into the Republican party base?

then we would have RW/Rep/Mod-Centrist/Dem/LW and Green/Lib in there as well.....

votes is NOT going to cause the Democratic Party to cease to exist. They do not weild that amount of leverage over the Democratic Party. So there is no sense in arguing this, because this is not a valid premise.

you must have examples of extremist parties gaining power in the US.

There are many disenchanted Dean supporters, and others who just can't get excited about Kerry. They are loyal Democrats and progressives--but they need an outlet for their energy.

And you're dreaming. It's a two-party system. The goal must be to make progressive change in the lives of people; I'm working to do whatever I can do that end.

Progressive change occurs by taking an ideology and following it.

My ideology happens to be of the left wing variety.

Since the ideologue, especially the self-identified, is wrapped up in sterile ideas, and coats irrationality with a pseudo-rational veneer.

How can ideas that have never been tried be called sterile??

You got me there Willy!!:crazy:

They'll stick to a bullshit script that has a surface plausibility, they are fixed in their opinions, but underneath it is some emotional irrationality ("I hate the poor!" or whatever)

I stick to no scripts thank you. I am a Socialist, but I have never read Marx. I read no Socialist journals. I am an artist and I stick to learning truth through art. I must protest the label.

(sarcasm)

I am the poor:)

The POOR party!!!!!:party:

Sounds like a good plan:toast:

to our new Poor Party?

damned to a lifetime of disappointment.

Idealogues can do well in authoritarian systems, but not in democracies.

You will have to form your own minority 3rd Party instead of the other way around.

You see, in a democracy, the minority doesn't call the shots to the majority. It's the other way around.

Register more people to vote Bush out. I plan on doing that when I go home for a month in August.

Let's keep things in perspective. Kerry is not a Kucinich Progressive. Dennis would be my ideal candidate but this is reality we're talking about.

We are goverened by a regressive, right-wing, reactionary tool of the corporate elite. The only people in this country who have done well over the past 20 years of mostly Republican rule are the top 10% wealthiest.

Kerry will govern in a far more progressive and inclusive and intelligent manner than the current White House resident. In my book that makes him a Progressive.

The ONLY way Kerry wins is if he gets our full support. That means money, time, and votes.

Some people aren't willing to work for Kerry. Might as well hope they help at different levels.

There's a lot of anger at this grab all for themselves and leave nothing for us Congress. It might be a chance to make changes.

Whoever the President is, Congress makes or breaks him.

even though I'm not thrilled about Kerry - I will work for my congressional race and local candidates - energy born from being angry about the RW can be spent on ridding the earth of them!:nuke:

check out ProgressiveMajority.com

used computer "store" for project kids, or if you're really ambitious and have affluent friends, a microloan/microgrant program, (see http://www.grameen-info.org ) You might be amazed how much a life can be changed by the amount of money you might spend on beer and entertainment for one weekend.

Other things you can do are mentor at risk kids in low-income schools, AIDS help groups always need people to do everything from take people to the doctor to deliver meals to people who can't either get out or cook for themselves.

If you speak a popular language and are pro-immigrant, agencies that help people who are new in the US can use you to teach English and basic literacy skills, translate peoples' gas bills etc while they learn, help mothers to be get hooked up with whatever flimsy excuse for free prenatal care is available in your community.

There is no shortage of need, no matter where you live or who you are, just look around and see what needs doing, and do it!

shelters, drug treatment centers and veterans services centers in my county. The hidden ought to have an option to register or at least say f*** off. Least they get a choice.

I see in another post you are an ideologue...it's a dangerous premise, imho, witness the purely ideological driven neo con movement.

Ideologues seem to have a tendency to lose touch....thanks for the post, made me think.

is every reason to believe he will be coordinating a progressive campaign for congressional reps around the country. It's a way to keep in a group which shares progressive ideas and are motivated to help progressive candidates around the country.

thread on that topic - with link to DeLay challenger: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=428921

I mean if you have the most asinine corrupt right winger in any office in your area, please, please get every single person out to vote. As a Kerry person I feel pretty confident in saying that if you can swing public opinion to oust DeLay, those same people will likely vote for our Presidential campaign. I mean hey, we're not going to win Texas, but dumping a jackass is a good thing all around.

Rp

Remember that THE enemy is Bush first and foremost.

And donate time, money, and word of mouth to all the things listed in the opening post...esp Moveon.org and the ACLU.

I'd also add Planned Parenthood to the list.

This Administration has done more to tirn back the clock on environmental progress we have made since Nixon.

I am working in a movement to stop the Admin from gutting the Endangered Species Act. Overnite, it could be made legal to trade again in animals from all over the world that are down to a precious few. It outrages me & saddens me at the same time.

And you know what? Most Americans are on our side on these issues. We need to make some noise & let it be known what this corrupt bunch is doing to our planet, in their unending quest for profits.

www.saveourenvironment.org

They have an action group where you can send emails to the gov to try & influence pending legislation, which is now going through a discussion period.

I would try Progressive Majority. http://progressivemajority.com

They work year-in and year-out to ELECT PROGRESSIVES, not just people with the Dem label. They are honest, hard-working, do a lot of research so that the money doesn't get frittered away and wasted.

Further, if you have a real progressive in your area that you want to get elected, you can propose them for funds and endorsement.They really don't do local races except in exceptional cases, but do do stuff like GOVERNORS, ATTORNEYS-GENERAL,SECRETARIES OF STATE(bbv, ANYONE?), CONGRESSPEOPLE & SENATORS.

Without a bunch of progressives pushing Kerry in Congress, he's not only going to have a tough go, but will probably make compromises unacceptable to progressives just because he doesn't have enough power.SO GO FOR IT!!

I envision a Kerry President - I can be okay with it - sure beats the heck out of Bush.

I envision a Kerry President with a democratic maj. in congress - and he looks better - can move some of his platform which is progressive. (And I believe the anti bush sentiment that is growing - can be ... if we work for it ... translated into many upsets.)

I envision a Kerry President with a democratic maj in congress which has a significant progressive block (would take a few more election cycles)... and the young Senator Kerry who took on forbidden investigations in his early years in Congress - pushing a progressive agenday... makes me very enthusiastic for the presidency.

sorry it got threadjacked.

Suggestion - skip the threadjacked part - and reengage with folks who have added on below.

The discussion is a good one. I have to sign off or I would try to add more.

I admit I haven't read through all the posts. Register the powerless, register the neglected, register the absent minded. That is a progressive act. Most of them will vote Democratic once they vote. Few would vote Republican. Kerry would get a lot of votes. Wouldn't be a problem if Nader gets a few also because otherwise those people likely wouldn't have voted.

Work for voter turn out this year. Work to prevent voter fraud on election day that deprives minorities of having their votes counted. These are progressive causes period. And it will help defeat Bush.

Personally, I will campaign for Kerry also.