Clark campaign "Welcome Dean Supporters"

Welcome Dean Supporters

By camworld
Posted to Official Campaign Blog (Switch) on Tue Dec 30th, 2003 at 07:33:19 PM EST

Over the past few weeks we've noticed a surprising trend. Every day, more and more supporters of candidate Howard Dean are speaking up and saying they now are Clark supporters. Here at the Clark campaign we welcome them (and all people) with open arms. Our campaign does not pretend to be the only one in the race. Our campaign does not run around attacking the other candidates simply as a way to discredit them or make news. Our campaign certainly does not alienate supporters of other campaigns simply because they made an early choice and are now having second thoughts.

http://campaign.forclark.com/story/2003/12/30/193319/93
open arms!
its a nice, happy message =)

:thumbsup:

says it all.

:hi:

:hi:

... or was that the second glass of wine? Well, at any rate, I'm not surprised by this welcoming attitude - that's what Clark is all about!

I'm glad you posted that, Meow, I guess I have to pop over to the blog and catch up on some reading there!

to provoke a warm response.




Wes Clark. He will make an extraordinary American President.

two months ago, when the Doc decided to turn to undemocratic campaign finance methodologies in order to buy the White House. So visit http://www.kucinich.us and find out how, in god's name, your future president goes so uncovered in this era of information.

Click here -> http://www.kucinich.us and awaken.

The revolution will not be televised!

donating $100 each to try to restore a little hope in the American democratic system?

Just asking.

:shrug:

Hee hee

Well, I'd rather have the votes!!!

OK, so did I sound really tough? I was trying to sound tough and mean. Did I do it? huh? Huh???? :)

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .



Send me a DU private message ( ) to become a Teacher for Clark
Teachers for Clark beta site

If Kerry drops out, you can firmly expect to see me over at the Clark Camp.

Both are men of the highest integrity and character.

Just curious.

:-)

Would not the Dean Camp Welcome Clark supporters over?

And I will expect a warm welcome if Clark wins. But until then, put em up!


Images from Dean Rocks the House of Blues, Hollywood
From wtmusic http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=919849
From Joefree1 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=921300

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Wow. A prolific night for you. Still grouping Clark supporters with freepers, aren't you?

This is politics, and is kind of funny, but isn't bad or very important. Not worth approbration or indignation.

Dean welcomes the voters, the nomination and the White House! ;)

and posers extraordinaire...

then again, that might have to go to Kucinich.

and a lot of us will not be transferred.

Dean has a spine. When the rest of the Democratic Party evolves, I'll reconsider my signature.

Dean won't be on the ballot. This time we're running a Southerner who will actually win his home state.

Dean only.

Dean is the answer. Anything else will be a let down and will see me staying home come Novemebr 2nd.

OF course when Dean does that, Clark supporters call it pandering, but that's only because he's wining.

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you know now.

We've got bigger clowns to worry about that photoshop jockey above.

Anything else, and I stay home.

The stakes are too high. Anyone who does not vote against Bush--with their noses pinched, drunk, whatever--contributes to the deaths of innocents.

The hands that do not vote against Bush have blood upon them.

than I am against Bush.

I respect you for it.

If you don't vote against Bush and have the opportunity to do so, you are aiding Bush's prospects and the nightmare that comes with it.

What's the point of being a person of principles if the principles improve the chances of another unjust war?

The hell with conscience. The hell with purity. That's just the political vanity of the conceited. I'll let others worship their own purity, pray at the alter of their own righteousness. I'm going to work to make sure that the criminal is booted out of the White House, so that more kids don't die for nothing.

Nobody else deserves my vote in 2004. Only Dean. Nobody else is worth wasting the time to go cast a vote for, in my humble opinion.

It is very simple: Suppose Dean is not the nominee.

You have two choices:

(A) Voting for the Democratic nominee.
(B) Everything else exclusive of (A).

Choosing (A) decreases the probability of people getting killed for nothing.
Choosing (B) increases the probability of people getting killed for nothing.

The only clean hands are those that vote.

I honestly believe more people get killed regardless.

Not a dogmatic approach. It is my approach. I see a single hope for the future of America. If that hope dies, then there is no sense in participating in the sham any longer.

Dean is the front runner, Dean is a capable candidate, and Dean's supporters shouldn't apologize for their stance or go along with the ridiculous notion that the nomination is "Clark's." The numbers tell quite a different story.

Dean would be a very good president. I do not begrudge anyone their support of the good Doctor.

The question is what to do if another candidate besides Dean gets the nomination.

I say vote for the bastard, even if it's Lieberman. (It's hard to say, but yes, even Lieberman would be a world better than Bush.)

Walt says that he will stay home and not vote. I believe that is (literally) bloody folly.

(And, yes, we Clark supporters are quite aware that Dean is in the lead. Most of us think he is OK. Not as OK as Clark, but quite good.)

BUT I don't believe your framing of the issue as "Clark or you're stupid" is going to win you many friends. I suspect that's how many Dean supporters are receiving it.

Also, not all of Dean's supporters are Democrats or necessarily plugged in to the political process. Many are voting FOR Dean's policies, not AGAINST George Bush. Arguments about Bush carry little water with those people.

I'll be more careful not to sound that way. I thought it was clear that b/w Clark and Bush, voting Clark is the only thing to do.

Anyhoo, it's good that Dean has supporters that are positive about him--moreso than negative about Bush.

But, still, Bush has to be beaten. Say what you will about cynics and negativity being bad--Bush has to be beaten. The point isn't to go against his Dean vote--which is a great thing, God bless 'em--but to be clear than an anti-Bush vote has to be cast if that's the only option.

Anyway, this is premature. When the primaries are over, then we can get to work on all becoming Dean supporters, or converting Dean's Army as best we can.

This sort of hypnotized cult fanaticism is scary for our party and our country. It reminds me too much of something...

Maybe if Dean had more than just hatred and rage fueling his campaign it would be different.
Clark has a vision for the future.

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being promoted with this photo doesn't worry you? He has blood on his hands also. Bloodthirsty is bloodthirsty.

Is it okay in the US of A to solicit votes using SOA/Gitmo methods?

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while Dean is an American Zero who has only seen the ski slopes.

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If Dean does not get the nomination. (There is a very good chance, of course, that you will not have to be in such a position.)

What's wrong with saying: "I'm supporting Dean 100%, and won't do a damn thing for another candidate. I can't waste energy hating Bush. But on election day, I'll vote for the other guy/gal if it isn't Dean, just because I realize Bush is no good."

You needn't have a negative focus to take such an approach.

And, yes, I think it is absolutely crucial that we be against Bush, and not merely for our candidate. He lied this nation into a horrible war. If that isn't grounds for outrage and negativity, then damned if I know what is. I'm voting against the bastard, no matter what.

Dean only. None other need apply.

There's no point in discussion. The idea has become fixed, and cannot be dislodged by any rational discussion. There is no there there.

There's no point in further discussion.

Good night.

It's in your sig, and you've only told us here a million times now.

:eyes:

Your vote is yours to do whatever you want with. Even if you want to flush it down the toilet should Dean not be the nominee, that's your right.

How many times have you changed position on candidates now, by the way? I've kind of lost count.

DTH

and I'll follow mine.

That's all that needs to be said.

Yours just come from an angry populist Demagogue.

My orders come from me, ergo, you have just made a personal attack on me.

Don't try passing the buck, friend.

I seem to recall that being an attack line used against Clark supporters, you know, that part about us all "following orders from our General". I have never, never heard a single real Clark supporter describe their choices and actions that way. It is regarded as an insult. Then there is the matter of a pen name that just so happens to be nearly the same as the campaign web site. No Clark supporter I know would imagine feeding into any confusion over their own personal sentiments and the official campaign, by chosing a name so associated with the official campaign.

Of course then there is the matter of that silly picture, you know, the obscene one. Just what type of "supporter" would use that type of picture to further their desired ends? Some might say that it would be someone trying to start trouble and and inflame tensions. You wouldn't want anyone to think that, would you?

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You got your initial rise, now you might as well go cook up something new or just go to bed. People who are reading this thread will blow that cover of yours, and word of it will be everywhere by morning.

Populism has some good aspects.

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This goes too far. Please take that down.

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It may be more subtle, but the same attitude exists in posts all over DU.

I'm through being pushed around. I see a single hope for the future of this nation. Anything else is a false hope, IMO.

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...how anyone can create a name and post on DU, and no one can really know if they are who they represent themselves to be, and if they believe what they claim to believe, or for what end they might pose as something they are not?

Dirty politics comes in both big and small packages. Sometimes it's a Whitewater break in, sometimes it's an inflammatory post on a bulletin board.

I think the Clark campaign would not be happy to see a supporter doing that, would they.

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Looks like he supprts Clark. Look at the URL for his picture.

I am so fucking angry. Some fucker posts a horrible photo posing as an authentic Clark supporter, stirring up shit among Dems, on some nonsense hosting server--and--what?--people just eat it up and take it as sincere.

Goddamnit!

I'm through being pushed around. ABB is gone, baby. I'm taking a new route for my future and the future of my family.

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the damage Dean and his supporters are doing to our party!?

I could make a list for you, with #1 being the Iraq War. However, I don't it would matter. NCLB, the monstrous tax cuts, the horrible Medicare bill, the Social Security they are about to abolish. ....our Democrats have been complicit in all this.

What are THEY doing to the party?

Oh, I forgot the Patriot Act.

:eyes:

DTH

That's the fact.

Check it out, it's not even a completed page yet!

http://clark04.50megs.com/

Anyone could go onto 50megs and create "deanforamerica.50megs.com" and spread all kinds of filth right now, and you'd believe they're associated with the Dean campaign?

Christ Walt, use some critical thinking already, please!

DTH

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earlier today. The freepers promptly decried it as being tasteless and over the top.
The timing of the two posts could be a coincidence but it's just one of those interesting little factoids...

.

I dont care how angry some make me. NONE would condone THAT. :puke:

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I'm not going to hold any punches. I want my country back from Bush, but I'm not going to just hand it over to another hate-monger like Dean without a least a fight.

We don't need more anger and hatred and demagoguery, we need Leadership, and General Clark has it.

If you have problems with hate mongering, then you will take that vile piece of shit down immediately. You are NOT representing my candidate this way.

TAKE THAT HIDEOUS PICTURE DOWN!

It literally makes me ill.

This is NOT behavior representative of supporters of General Clark.

make you ill, as should Dean's hot-headed demagoguery.

I don't believe any other CLark supporters agree with your methods no matter how badly they despise Dean.

I will just bet you are having a really fun time with this.

Seriously, that picture is doing a lot of harm for Clark, and you should take it down.

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But the way things have been coming at us fast and furious for a while....well, no, probably it is not. Does make one think, though.

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This Dean voter, for one, will not transfer.

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I'm not a fan of Dean's, but I sure don't think General Clark would want that picture being used to help promote his candidacy!

I guess it is ok. I just think General Clark would not be happy with that.

You know that, we all know that. Never. :mad:

I sure did.

:hi:

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I doubt very much they approve... They're only human and aren't on 24/7...

I mean, it's not like it's the holidays or anything.

How long have you been here, and yet you still expect instant gratification like that? You should know better.

:eyes:

DTH

but a picture of Dean stands on this site for more than an hour, you're damn straight I want instant gratification.

MODS ARE NOT ON 24/7. RESPONSE TIME VARIES GREATLY AND IS OFTEN QUITE RANDOM, ESPECIALLY ON THE HOLIDAYS. SOMETIMES IT'S FAST, SOMETIMES IT'S SLOW.

DTH

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They control everything you know. The mods are actually all Republicans. The mods are actually all anti-Dean, even the Dean supporters.

(Yes, the mods are biased: they are biased to go home during holidays. They are biased to sleeping at night.)

Don't you think this crap is as offensive to a Clark supporter as it is to a Dean supporter. Yes your man is desecrated, but so is our movement and what we actually stand for, the way that freep wraps himself in a "Clark" cloak. We all want it down.

But just chill. An idiot has stirred up some raw emotions. A moderator will clean up the mess and then we can all go back to attacking each other over who supports a REAL Democrat! Or something like that...

Not in my book, anyway.

DTH

As someone whose relatives survived the Nazi reign of terror, I find your "picture" profoundly offensive.

Jeez, I think I now know the meaning of the quote, "we have met the enemy and they are us!"

The enemy is us.
:shrug:

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Fucking disgusting. You KNOW what Hitler did, right? How repulsive.

I rarely wonder about the "good intentions" of posters because who can say who has a hidden agenda and who doesn't? Suffice it to say that in my opinion making a post like this can not possibly help Clark in any conceivable way, and does not reflect well on anyone who thinks this type of imagery is acceptable. Can anyone be so stupid as to not understand that? Nope, noone can be that stupid, You want trouble.

That picture is a travesty.

:puke:

DTH

:thumbsdown:

You should be ashamed...

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Why are you responding to me? We agree...

my mistake. Thanks, Clark, for your patience :beer:

We engage in political discussion via e-mail all the time, me and him and a couple of other political wonk wannabes. It gets HELLISHLY confusing quite often, when I'm addressing him while advocating for General Clark. :-)

"Clark supports cutting the military budget by up to 25%. Hey, no I don't!" ;-)

DTH

is doing?

I know I do.

:eyes:

:eyes:

DTH

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open it.

Do you seriously think that the Mods are keeping this up out of malignant intention... you know, it's 12:30 am on the East Coast!

Do you seriously think that this is a sincere Clark supporter, instead of some poser freeper who--get this!--is using the string "Clark04"?

I mean, come on!

Don't waste any more effort in trying to open it. Let him think what he wants, it's his loss.

Sid

clark supporters don't condone this. get real. I am the first person to be annoyed by SOME of them but this is silly.

There are freeps and disruptors going crazy all over the Net. It's like that Repub "anybody but Dean" site.

The right wing is coming out like gangbusters against Dean--and against Clark, too, from the looks of things.

I think we can all safely assume now that they're sufficiently freaked out.

But they haven't seen anything yet.

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I highly recommend to anyone not supporting Clark yet that they read why many people are making the switch. Their reasons might be similar to your concerns.

The Clark campaign is one on of "inclusion". That is why Clark is the one who will beat Bush in November.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=41835&mesg_id=43806&page=

There ya go. The future of political repartee from a Clark supporter perspective.

Associating us with the freeper troll. Good work.

The original "Joe" sign said "Deannies." Definitely a sign of the need for Dean's education proposals to rescue education.

I fully expect that the overwhelming majority of Dean supporters will stick by their candidate. Same for Clark supporters. Both movements have a lot to be proud of. Since Clark started late we are kind of used to welcoming converts into our ranks, many of us were lined up elsewhere before Clark agreed to run.

tasteless image.

Clark = unelectable, imo.

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I hope hard-headed DUers stop trying to associate the Clark campaign with that garbage

The right wing is going absolutely crazy, against Dean and against Clark. They are attempting to do all that they know how: to divide us.

It's not going to work this time.

Have you seen the thread yet about "anybody but Dean" website, which purports to be a group of Dem grad students? (It's laughable.)

Run by a couple of people who have maxed their contributions to Chimpy. Both have donated $2,000 apiece.

it would seem.

I didn't make the photo and said so before. I also said it wouldn't be long before the Repukes would be using it...

God this is pathetic.

(But funny.)

You have no idea what's in store.

;-)

DTH

PS: Great find!

About as articulate as Chimpy himself, eh wot?

you know, pick your favorite mass murderer, make a series of decorative plates out of them? You know, for your man Clark?

There's not much talent or imagination going on there, but there's a concerted effort to dive into a photoshop campaign.

Good work, taking a freeper poser to be a Clark supporter, and grouping us with him.

You're putting a lot of effort into this nasty work.

Some DUers apparently subscribe to that very philosophy.

:eyes:

DTH

I can go to sleep now. :)

I can't stand this kind of thing and delight in exposing it whenever possible. :pals:

janx .. I do hope that every candidate's supporters will accept your proof of source, because my recent experience suggests that any minute now, someone will try laying this at the feet of Dean supporters. I hope I am wrong.

btw .. I stored the page from FR because they will take that thread down .. eventually.

B-)

how nice of them

The right wingnut photoshoppers are working full time, it appears.

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Since I try not to lurk on Dean threads because, unlike some people on DU, I don't take pleasure in bashing other candidates, and I don't believe in intruding onto a positive thread for a candidate I am not supporting, I have a favor to ask.

Could you please watch for any efforts made by people in your camp to palm off obvious freeper disruption attacks, aimed at breeding animosity between Dean and Clark supporters, as genuine products by Clark supporters? At least when a freeper does it he is overtly trying to hurt the Democratic Party. Please don't allow anyone in your own base to peddle that poison between us. I very much appreciate your cooperation in this manner.

Regarding the same issue.

:thumbsup:

DTH

I take it as being over the hill.

You think Tom was sending a sneaky slap your way? You are so wrong, if you think that.

DTH

I wasn't sure how to addresse my post, because obviously the person who chose to spread the work of the freeper onto other threads, as a genuine example of Clark supporter hatred for Dean, also considers himself to be a Dean supporter. I would gladly change the title if you can suggest a better soon (I am on the East Coast and need to sleep). I guess I may have left the impression that I don't consider most Dean supporters to be level headed. If so I apologize. I don't feel that way at all. I am really tired right now, that may have something to do with it.

claiming to be both a Clark supporter and Dean supporter?

edit: removing 'you' words, which I strive to avoid.

"since you've already told me that, "if your ideals were acceptable to the democratic party, I would have to change parties".

I've never said that to anyone about anything. Do you have me confused with someone else? Seriously, that phrase is not familiar to me nor are the sentiments remotely similar to anything that I feel.

Anyway a new poster appeared today Clark04America flashing a picture of Dean as Hitler, that is also posted on a freeper site. My first reaction was to view him as a way over the top Clark supporter also, but there has been both some sound logic and sluething on this thread to debunk him. It's going on all throughout this thread, you can't miss it.

I don't draw an awful lot of personal attacks, so I do tend to remember them.

I thought in the post I reply to above you were saying the new member was claiming to support Dean AND Clark.

Another Clark supporter and I agreed days ago that we as DU members should refrain from attacking each other, even while questioning our respective candidates. The thread fell like a rock. I would like nothing more than true comradeship among all the members here. Conventional wisdom says, it's too soon. :(

I would love it if there were any way you could find the post you think I wrote that attacked you, so we could review it together. That might not be possible so the next best thing is to say that I agree with your prescription of what is best. I could probably find a number of the posts I have written here that try to promote that spirit. Guess I have to let it go, I know you sincerely think I attacked you once. I guess I can say that I'm sorry that you had that experience.

Anyway, as to the other matter. I may not have been clear. There was a professed Dean supporter here who, even after much debunking was done, decided to take the Dean as Hitler picture and post it onto other threads as a genuine product by a Clark Supporter. He said so in a post here, that also left a link to where he left the Hitler attack picture. Here is the post: (it's the one that my appeal to "level headed" Dean supporters was a direct response to).

By the way, thank you for taking an interest in this, especially since you believe I treated you harshly in the past.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=44401&mesg_id=44829&page=

Yes, I agree .. this kind of thing needs as much containment as possible. I will do whatever I can.

In regards to the other personal matter, if you give your consent, I will pm you privately so we can come to a better understanding of one another?

Yes you certainly have my consent. I am sincerely interested in reaching a better understanding of each other.

And I realize that it's hard to articulate your point. I try to do my part, but the way things are being divided right now, it's easy to let things slide. I'll try to be more aware.

And I've suspected stuff like this for a long time.

They delight in dividing people. Remember that. It's the "us against them" mentality.

The right wingnuts are loud and determined--but they're Not Very Bright.

:pals:

that takes some real diplomacy, Clark campaign! Well done!

Every single campaign has received converts from other campaigns. It's the campaign's job to make those converts feel welcome.

DTH

I mean more along the lines of, and I'm paraphrasing:

We don't do this or that like SOME campaigns do.

It's cheap whether a five year old or a fifty year old does it.

Seriously, though, it isn't a big deal. Clark's a compelling candidate. He's on my side. I won't think twice about casting my vote for him in 2004.

I think it's safe to say that some campaigns are better about staying positive and not attacking than others, though.

IMO, Clark is one of the best at staying positive and not attacking others.

DTH

THE best. Hands down. By a mile. To his immense credit.

:loveya:

DTH

Dean's support is broad but very limited in growth prospects beyond a core group of die-hard supporters, it is because he is running a campaign based on enemies, not friends. The "you're either with us or you're against us" theme running through his campaign also doesn't help in attracting new supporters.

This should validate what I was talking about above.

See above instead. :-)

DTH

He got the same vibe off the original post that I did. There were two elements to the blog post as I read it. A welcoming of Dean (or any other) supporters. And a thinly veiled attempt at finger pointing and what I said before (I don't know if there's a word for it, but I'm thinking shadenfreude). I'm not taking this as a campaign strategy, just something built in to the language of the blog post. Probably unintentional. But it came across like a sneaky litle jab at "certain other campaigns who shall remain nameless (hint hint)" Again, I'm paraphrasing.

As a Dean supporter, the vibe irked me, and apparently as a Dean opponent, the vibe excited quinnox.

No biggie, but I picked up that vibe too. Tried to "soften" it earlier with this post, then I got swept up in the troll madness.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=44401&mesg_id=44564&page=

and if I let my cynicism take hold, I say that staying clean was a good strategy, possibly one of the benefits of waiting before entering the race. You know, being able to see how things are going, and if they look like they might get ugly, taking the high road and using that to distinguish yourself.

But what my cynical side doesn't get is that it has no reason to think Clark would have gone negative under different circumstances. So it's all good. The Dark Side loses a battle for a change.

I will also say that some campaign staffers can go a bit over-the-top at times. I think the Clark blog post was fair commentary, but I can see how it would rub some Dean supporters the wrong way.

DTH

Because most of us know better than to characterize an entire campaign based on a blog post.



On edit, I realize that I kinda did the same thing.

So I will change it to: Because people generally know better...

"opponent"

when he jumped on the "call Dean a draft doger" bandwagon simply as a way to discredit Dean and make news.

Please remember the rules. If you feel that someone is a disruptor, please use the alert button. Calling someone a freeper/troll publicly is a rule violation.


Thank you.


DU Moderator