I can't wait for Kerry to be elected so we can truncate Clinton's legacy.

Frankly, I don't like Clinton. I have heard all the pros
and cons and ultimately, I think Clinton is a wack job.
He had some good policies, some bad policies, but I just couldn't
respect him on a visceral level. He seems to be out there just
"for himself".

When Kerry is elected, Clinton will no longer be "the big dog" and
I will no longer have to "respect" his authority. Also,
hopefully, this will obviate any Hillary run for the Presidency.

Well, I might be wrong but here's hoping.

by anything other than the far right wing. Adulterer perhaps, but I think "wack job" is far too strong a term.

USA 1998 or USA 2003. Which would you prefer?

Clinton might've seemed like he was "for himself", but he did a hell of a lot of good for us in the process. Bush, on the other hand, has done a hell of a lot TO us in pursuing his selfish goals.

Let's face a sad truth: the Presidency isn't the most fun job in America. It's a lot easier to be a Governor or a Senator. People who want to become President have an awful lot of ambition and ego. I think the last person who became President that truly did it because he thought he was doing good was Carter (and many would argue that didn't turn out so well). Unfortunately, anyone we get to be President is going to be "for him/herself".

still in bounds.

No?

a coined phrase, but what's wrong with Hillary? The only negative I see for Hillary right now is that she is villified by so many Repubs. That is something she will have to overcome. Other than that, what's the issue with Hillary?

Keo

If you like Lieberman, you'll love Hillary.

to think Clinton's a wack job.

Yet, he let us down by screwing around with and intern then lying
about it. You can blame the RW if you want for persecuting him
but it only proves my point. Clinton let the team down by giving
them enough ammunition to make it uncomfortable for all of us.

Signing NAFTA was not Bill Clinton's shining moment either.

I don't fault him for that.

it was the equivalent of dropping the bomb on hiroshima.

GET OVER IT!

He did incredible things for the ENTIRE WORLD in SPITE of
being attacked by mad dogs. The only wack job is the person
who ignores the greatness of what he did by focusing on the
trivial crap, such as blow jobs. Consider the RW'ers doing
the same thing at the same time and still moralizing. They
are the wack jobs.

just as bad or worse than NAFTA. When we had the recession in the 1980s it didn't hurt people that bad because there was a fallback for the unemployed and poverty stricken. That's why the 80s seemed so robust financially because even the poor could spend money. Then Welfare Reform went through and the recession, the debts, and other social program cuts have cut the legs off of the poor and that's why the gap of wealth between Americans is widening so far.

NAFTA helped bring jobs overseas but numerous trade acts afterwards helped that along and in the past 4 years it's not like the Administration tried to enforce or enact any rules to stop the tide of Corporate Fraud or Selling Out Overseas.

Without Welfare those people that are out of work went from middle class to poverty much faster, the homeless rate doubled, and Bush only added to the problems by cutting taxes for the rich, screwing the poor and cutting program funding where it was needed most (Head Start, Energy Assistance, School Lunches, etc.)

Rp

Wack job is ok, especially considering that he signed all those last minute bills that should have been first minute. So much for campaign promises... Not that Bush is better, but at least the Repukkks have the balls to stand up for what they believe in. Too bad they believe in Aristocracy...

I know this will probably insight all sorts of "Kerry will do what he promises" "clinton did this, this and this...." But I don't care. I want a liberal canidate who does what she or he says. I haven't seen one out of the democratic party as long as I've been alive.

It'll be a long time before we see another president that can match him. Quite frankly, for all the appreciation the American people have shown I don't think we deserve another President of his caliber. We deserve what we have squatting in Al Gore's white house today.

sadly true.

But that's sad. We shouldn't congratulate someone because he's a notch above bad, we should congratulate someone because he's done the best possible situation for the country. Clinton signed into WTO (and NAFTA too, I think) is that the best for our Country. I like bill, when compared to W. But I like a wolverine compared to W, too. Therefore, that's not a compliment

Or maybe you preferred the do nothing, sit on your hands in the face of genocide approach of George the 1st.

just maybe we should conduct war with the approval of congress, the un and nato.... That goes for the shrub and billy the kid

I'm sure that's news to General Wesley Clark, the guy in charge during our actions in Kosovo... and Supreme Allied Commander of NATO.

On Edit: I forgot to, in my haste, add one detail: The reason the UN didn't approve is because the Russians refuse to think badly about the Serbs... interestingly, the same alliance was part of the "powderkeg" of WWI.

and I read that in The Nation.

Yeah, that's right - The Nation.

Not Fox, and not Free Republic.

our last liberal President

How low this party has sunk. :(

Has DK called for a national minimum income?

Nixon did. DK is sad

Were it not for his private affairs and stumbles Gore would be President and history completely different.
Clinton was disappointing in many respects.

The two great myths that have settled across the nation, beyond the Hussein-9/11 connection, are that Clinton did not do enough during his tenure to stop the spread of radical terrorist organizations like al Qaeda, and that the attacks themselves could not have been anticipated or stopped. Blumenthal's insider perspective on these matters bursts the myths entirely, and reveals a level of complicity regarding the attacks within the journalistic realm and the conservative political ranks that is infuriating and disturbing.

Starting in 1995, Clinton took actions against terrorism that were unprecedented in American history. He poured billions and billions of dollars into counterterrorism activities across the entire spectrum of the intelligence community. He poured billions more into the protection of critical infrastructure. He ordered massive federal stockpiling of antidotes and vaccines to prepare for a possible bioterror attack. He order a reorganization of the intelligence community itself, ramming through reforms and new procedures to address the demonstrable threat. Within the National Security Council, "threat meetings" were held three times a week to assess looming conspiracies. His National Security Advisor, Sandy Berger, prepared a voluminous dossier on al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden, actively tracking them across the planet. Clinton raised the issue of terrorism in virtually every important speech he gave in the last three years of his tenure. In 1996, Clinton delivered a major address to the United Nations on the matter of international terrorism, calling it "The enemy of our generation."

Behind the scenes, he leaned vigorously on the leaders of nations within the terrorist sphere. In particular, he pushed Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to assist him in dealing with the threat from neighboring Afghanistan and its favorite guest, Osama bin Laden. Before Sharif could be compelled to act, he was thrown out of office by his own army. His replacement, Pervez Musharraf, pointedly refused to do anything to assist Clinton in dealing with these threats. Despite these and other diplomatic setbacks, terrorist cell after terrorist cell were destroyed across the world, and bomb plots against American embassies were thwarted. Because of security concerns, these victories were never revealed to the American people until very recently.

In America, few people heard anything about this. Clinton's dire public warnings about the threat posed by terrorism, and the massive non-secret actions taken to thwart it, went completely unreported by the media, which was far more concerned with stained dresses and baseless Drudge Report rumors. When the administration did act militarily against bin Laden and his terrorist network, the actions were dismissed by partisans within the media and Congress as scandalous "wag the dog" tactics. The TV networks actually broadcast clips of the movie "Wag The Dog" to accentuate the idea that everything the administration was doing was contrived fakery.

The bombing of the Sundanese factory at al-Shifa, in particular, drew wide condemnation from these quarters, despite the fact that the CIA found and certified VX nerve agent precursor in the ground outside the factory, despite the fact that the factory was owned by Osama bin Laden's Military Industrial Corporation, and despite the fact that the manager of the factory lived in bin Laden's villa in Khartoum. The book "Age of Sacred Terror" quantifies the al-Shifa issue thusly: "The dismissal of the al-Shifa attack as a scandalous blunder had serious consequences, including the failure of the public to comprehend the nature of the al Qaeda threat."

In Congress, Clinton was thwarted by the reactionary conservative majority in virtually every attempt he made to pass legislation that would attack al Qaeda and terrorism. His 1996 omnibus terror bill, which included many of the anti-terror measures we now take for granted after September 11, was withered almost to the point of uselessness by attacks from the right; Jesse Helms and Trent Lott were openly dismissive of the threats Clinton spoke of.

Clinton wanted to attack the financial underpinnings of the al-Qaeda network by banning American companies and individuals from dealing with foreign banks and financial institutions that al Qaeda was using for its money-laundering operations. Texas Senator Phil Gramm, chairman of the Banking Committee, killed Clinton's bill on this matter and called it "totalitarian." In fact, he was compelled to kill the bill because his most devoted patrons, the Enron Corporation and its criminal executives in Houston, were using those same terrorist financial networks to launder their own dirty money and rip off the Enron stockholders.

Just before departing office, Clinton managed to make a deal with the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development to have some twenty nations close tax havens used by al Qaeda. His term ended before the deal was sealed, and the incoming Bush administration acted immediately to destroy the agreement. According to Time magazine, in an article entitled "Banking on Secrecy" published in October of 2001, Bush economic advisors Larry Lindsey and R. Glenn Hubbard were urged by think tanks like the Center for Freedom and Prosperity to opt out of the coalition Clinton had formed. The conservative Heritage Foundation lobbied Bush's Treasury Secretary, Paul O'Neill, to do the same. In the end, the lobbyists got what they wanted, and the Bush administration pulled America out of the plan. The Time article stated, "Without the world's financial superpower, the biggest effort in years to rid the world's financial system of dirty money was short-circuited."

This laundry list of partisan catastrophes goes on and on. Far from being inept on the matter of terrorism, Clinton was profoundly activist in his attempts to address terrorism. Much of his work was foiled by right-wing Congressional conservatives who, simply, refused to accept the fact that he was President. These men, paid to work for the public trust, spent eight years working diligently to paralyze any and all Clinton policies, including anti-terror initiatives that, if enacted, would have gone a long way towards thwarting the September 11 attacks. Beyond them lay the worthless television media, which ignored and spun the terrorist issue as it pursued salacious leaks from Ken Starr's office, leaving the American people drowning in a swamp of ignorance on a matter of deadly global importance.

Over and above the theoretical questions regarding whether or not Clinton's anti-terror policies, if passed, would have stopped September 11 lies the very real fact that attacks very much like 9/11 were, in fact, stopped dead by the Clinton administration. The most glaring example of this came on December 31, 1999, when the world gathered to celebrate the passing of the millennium. On that night, al Qaeda was gathering as well.

The terrorist network planned to simultaneously attack the national airports in Washington DC and Los Angeles, the Amman Raddison Hotel in Jordan, a constellation of holy sites in Israel, and the USS The Sullivans at dock in Yemen. Each and every single one of these plots, which ranged from one side of the planet to the other, was foiled by the efforts of the Clinton administration. Speaking for the first time about these millennium plots, in a speech delivered to the Coast Guard Academy on May 17, 2000, Clinton said, "I want to tell you a story that, unfortunately, will not be the last example you will have to face."

Indeed.

Clinton proved that Osama bin Laden and his terror network can be foiled, can be thwarted, can be stopped. The multifaceted and complex nature of the international millennium plots rivals the plans laid before September 11, and involved counter-terrorism actions within several countries and across the entire American intelligence and military community. All resources were brought to bear, and the terrorists went down to defeat. The proof is in the pudding here. September 11, like the millennium plots, could have been avoided.

Couple this with other facts about the Bush administration we now have in hand. The administration was warned about a massive terror plot in the months before September by the security services of several countries, including Israel, Egypt, Germany and Russia. CIA Director George Tenet delivered a specific briefing on the matter to the administration on August 8, 2001. The massive compendium of data on Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda compiled by Sandy Berger, and delivered to Condoleezza Rice upon his departure, went completely and admittedly unread until the attacks took place. The attacks themselves managed, for over an hour, to pierce the most formidable air defense system in the history of the Earth without a single fighter aircraft taking wing until the catastrophe was concluded.

It is not fashionable these days to pine for the return of William Jefferson Clinton. Given the facts above, and the realities we face about the administration of George W. Bush, and the realities we endure regarding the aftermath of September 11, the United States of America would be, and was, well served by its previous leader. That we do not know this, that September 11 happened at all, that it was such a wretched shock to the American people, that we were so woefully unprepared, can be laid at the feet of a failed news media establishment, and at the feet of a pack of power-mad conservative extremists who now have a great deal to atone for.

Had Clinton been heeded, the measures he espoused would have been put in place, and a number of powerful bulwarks would have been thrown into the paths of those commercial airplanes. Had the news media been something other than a purveyor of masturbation fantasies from the far-right, the American people would have know the threats we faced, and would have compelled their Congressmen to act. Had Congress itself been something other than an institution ruled by narrow men whose only desire was to break a sitting President by any means necessary, we would very probably still have a New York skyline dominated by two soaring towers.

Had the Bush administration not continued this pattern of gross partisan ineptitude and heeded the blitz of domestic and international warnings, instead of trooping off to Texas for a month-long vacation, had Bush's National Security Advisor done one hour's worth of her homework, we probably would not be in the grotesque global mess that currently envelops us. Never forget that many of the activists who pushed throughout the 1990s for the annihilation of all things Clinton are now foursquare in charge of the country today.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/101303A.shtml

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lose his license, even though he might otherwise be saving lives?

Sorry, but I am not a Clinton apologist. He did what he did.
I have a right to not like him for it.

Furthermore, where has he been for 3 years while Bush has ruined
the country? I can't say that he's offered real leadership for
progressive or even moderate politics.

Let's just say that I think Kerry is the real deal and Clinton
is more like Spam. Hammy, gelatinous, offering some nutrition
but overall not as good as the real thing.

I am not sure which is worse.

on some innovative fund raising for college financial aid for poor afro-Americans- which, if successful will be used for other disadvantaged Americans, fund raising for Democrats,just to name a few things he has been up to.

And, by the way, occasionally speaking out about what we should be doing ( the one occasion that I remember the best was just before the Iraq war when he talked about North Korea and how to deal with them diplomatically- made a lot of sense- said the easiest thing in the world would be for us to give them the non-aggression pledge they wanted, and that we should bargain for something in return)

Go Big Dog!!

I don't have the impression that he is a horn tooter, look what I did, kind a guy, which is how I take your comments. Actually as Will indicated, it always seemed to me he did quite a bit in a behind the scenes way. And he was a marvelous public speaker.

Granted he was not as progressive as many here would prefer. He sure wasn't perfect, but he was/is a brilliant politician IMHO.

Frankly, he probably doesn't give a damn. Cheers!:-)

Cheers

he put our side in the win column twice, saving us from 4 more years of Bush and a "President Dole." *shudder*

remember the years of his presidency as some of the funnest times of my life. We don't have any fun with Georgie in the Oval Office. Nope. Everybody's uptight.

when he was Governor of Arkansas and continued it throughout his administration. They were pissed off that he chose to run against Bush...and won! His policies don't reflect him being out there "for himself." Not all of what he did was perfect, but he did a lot for our country. I forgive him for his BJ's.





Clinton Policies

Tried to get Universal Health Care
National Health Care Costs rising at 10% per annum. Cut to 3%
Deficit Reduction Package
Crime Bill
100,000 cops on street—crime down down down
Welfare Reform-- Mend do not end. GOP helped bit time
80% increase in child welfare payments
Job Growth-Record 236,000 per month. (Reagan/Bush 167,000)
Largest percentage of Americans working in history
Largest Home Ownership in history
Record number of small business formations
Tax Cut for 15 million working families
Family and Medical Leave Act
Defense Reinvest and Conversion—Bush enjoying weapons created by Clinton
Direct loan programs for students
Guts to put promises in a book "Putting People First"-58 promises in book. Took action on 56 in first two years.
Second best record in history for getting legislation through Congress in first to years. LBJ number one.
Reinvented Government—cut payroll
Fewest number of civilians on federal payroll in 36 years
Attacked cop killing nasty rifle association.
Attacked the cancer inducing tobacco industry
Promoted a global effort to ban abusive forms of child labor
Loan 12.8 Billion to Mexico. Made 800 Million profit. Kept Mexico afloat.
Wash. Post kept list of campaign promises. 162. Took action on 96% in first two years.
Took on prejudice toward other Americans in military
Took on his own Southern Baptist Church
Hard smart work in Middle East and Bosnia-Kosovo
Honored with all of the following:
Dove of Peace Award
Rabin-Peres Peace Award
Gandhi Peace Award
Order of Good Hope Award
Nominated for Nobel Peace Award
Northern Ireland Peace Agreement
Lifeaholics of America Award for Quarter Century "Working for a Life Not Just A Living".
First President to visit Northern Ireland
Cleanup of Toxic sites. Record
Increasing weekly earnings
Shoo Shoo Saddam get away from Kuwait
Stopping Haitians from drowning enroute to freedom
First to visit South Africa
First to make a determined effort to help the African continent come together and grow together
Taxing top 1.2% of very wealthy to get Zoom Zoom Boom economy
Stopping Republicans in the House from raiding Medicare of 181 Billion
Stopping Republicans raid on Medicaid
Stopping Republicans raid on education
Stopping Republicans attack on environment
Largest increase in Education funding since GI Bill
Increased funding for Head Start
Nafta.. A success until the Peso went south
Submitting 8 budgets close to rate of inflation
Brady Bill
Gaat
Assault Weapons Ban
Telling Japan "You take our auto parts or we will apply tariffs on you
California Desert Protection
Forest Management Plan for Northwest
Restoration of Florida Everglades
Preservation of land in Utah
Major increase in funding for homeless
Motor Voter Act
Lobbying Reform Effort. Handshake with Newt who reneged
Pressure to get Campaign Finance Reform.
National Export Strategy. Unbelievable success.
Over 250 Trade pacts
Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Pact
Summit of Americas
Super 301
Chemical Weapons Ban Treaty.
Bottom Up Review of Military
Agreement with Cuba to stop flow of immigrants to USA.
Ameri-Corps
Reduced Nuclear Threat Around the World
Community Banking Act
FEMA used as an active participant and a leader in disaster relief
Tax on well off social security beneficiaries
100,000 new teachers effort
5,000 new classroom effort
50% of classes thru K-12 on internet
Fourth Graders improvement on world tests
Lifetime Learning Opportunity Program
Controls on Spending and Borrowing
Pension Protection Act of 1994
Record high consumer confidence
Very, very, very low Misery Index
National Agenda on Racial Prejudices
First to get African-American unemployment under 10%
Balanced Budget
Record Corporate profits
Record Bank profits
Record Savings and Loan profits
Never whining despite non-sop smears and attacks
Not having a Mean Bone in his body per Historian David Maraniss
Not knowing how to hate
Classing others as "opponents" not "enemies"
Inviting your attackers to the White House functions
Inviting your defeated opponent Bob Dole to visit troops at Christmas
A national attack on hate crimes
Fighting to protect "legal" immigrants from Republicans in the House.
Fighting hard for Fast Track legislation
Kennedy and Kassenbaum Portability of Insurance
Lowest interest rates in 30 years
Allowing millions of homeowners to refinance home loans at lower (much) rates
Lowest unemployment in 25 years
Lowest inflation in 25 years
Lowest welfare rolls in 27 years
Lowest crime Rates in 25 years
First balanced budget sent to Congress in 29 years
Protecting worker pensions (repeat?)
Opposed ban on "Late Term Abortions"
A stock market which passed a 1,000 mark six times
Greatest growth in federal revenues in history
Played Saxophone and Smoked Peace Pipe, instead of beating War Drums like____.
One of History's all time workers for Peace
President in a year when Fortune Magazine classified it as "Greatest Economy in the History of the world"
Popularity jump in the midst of a scandal.
President with highest peacetime popularity in Asia, Africa, Russia and Europe.
Highest popularity of any president at end of fifth year in office
One of the most highly regarded First Lady in History.
One of the most highly regarded Vice-President in History

What exactly did that act provide for?

Pensions are reported in the news lately as being woefully underfunded ... so I'm just curious as to what that act did.

????

I would be interested in knowing if it is yet another piece of Clinton legislation that, in the long run, ended up hurting the little guy.

Tried looking it up in thomas.loc.gov, but reading & interpreting that requires more focus than I can give now.

I thought since it was being touted as some great accomplishment, that SOMEbody would know SOMEthing about it.

Skipped right over it. I'll see if I can find anything out tonight. I have some pretty good books that talk about policies and acts of different presidents.

Thanks in advance for any info you can add. :)

I searched all through 1994 and 1995 and 1996 in my book and could find nothing about a Pension Protection Act. I looked in the index under pension and noticed that Social Security is, of course, considered a pension. Here's what I found on that:

"August 15: The Social Security Administration became an independent agency when President Clinton signed an act separating it form the Department of Health and Human Services. The law was intended to shield the agency, established in 1935, from political manipulation."

Perhaps this is what the Pension Protection Act is. That makes sense to me. I'll do some more looking around on the net, though.

On edit: Okay, I see from incognito's post below that this is NOT what we were looking for. Sorry about that.

I didn't write that list. A Clinton historian did. However, I did find this on a Google search...


PRESIDENT CLINTON ANNOUNCES PENSION SECURITY STEPS

March 31, 1997

TODAY, PRESIDENT CLINTON WILL RELEASE THE PENSION BENEFIT GUARANTY CORPORATION'S (PBGC) ANNUAL REPORT TO CONGRESS -- SHOWING A SURPLUS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN PBGC'S 22-YEAR HISTORY. The Report shows a year-end financial surplus of $869 million, based on assets of more than $12 billion and liabilities of nearly $11.2 billion. The Annual Report should reassure the 42 million working men and women whose pensions are protected by PBGC.

In 1994, President Clinton signed the Retirement Protection Act, which put in place numerous pension reforms, including strengthening funding rules for underfunded plans and enhancing PBGC's compliance authority.
Due in part to these reforms, the PBGC, under the leadership of Martin Slate, erased a deficit that reached nearly $3 billion in 1993.
Strong financial management has spared taxpayers a potential loss of millions of dollars.
PRESIDENT CLINTON PROPOSES AUDIT REFORM TO ENHANCE PENSION SAFEGUARDS. President Clinton's initiative -- which he also proposed last year -- will improve pension security for millions of American workers by:

Closing a loophole that permits $950 billion in pension plan assets to escape meaningful audit, affecting 22 million workers;
Requiring prompt reporting if criminal acts are discovered during an audit; and
Assuring that only qualified professionals conduct audits of ERISA plans.
PRESIDENT CLINTON ANNOUNCES OTHER PENSION SECURITY STEPS:

The PWBA's 401(k) Enforcement Project Passes $20 Million Mark. The number of 401(k) plans has grown enormously in recent years (from 17,000 in 1984 to 154,000 in 1993). While the vast majority of these plans are safe, the Administration has stepped up enforcement against those employers who spend or borrow their employees' pension contributions. In just two years, the Pension and Welfare Benefits Administration's 401(k) Enforcement Project has recovered over $20 million for more than 40,000 employees across the country. Today, the Administration Starts a New Toll-Free Pension Hotline -- 1-800-998-7542. Today, the Labor Department initiates a toll-free number to provide pension information to workers. Sixteen publications, such as "Protect Your Pension" and "What You Should Know About Your Pension Rights," are available to individuals through this number. This will help pension plan participants understand their rights and identify early warning signs of pension problems. New Rules Will Put Pension Money To Work for Participants Sooner. Final rules went into effect last month requiring employers to deposit employee contributions into pension plans as soon as possible, but no later than 15 business days after the end of the month during which the contribution was made. It is estimated that this change will increase earnings for participants and beneficiaries by an average of $70 million per year over the next ten years.
http://www.pbgc.gov/news/press_releases/1997/PNSA.htm

...every pro and con. Wow.

And, Kerry will truncate Clinton's legacy of peace(Ireland,Isreal,Somalia,Balkans), prosperity(8year rise), and lowered crime. Clinton won't be able to talk about these anymore? Because Kerry will do each of these I guess?

Clinton will no longer be the "big dog." Well, I guess you think Kerry will take that title. I don't know why. Kerry doesn't seem to fit it.

Do you have to respect Clinton's "authority" now? His only authority would be to people who like hearing him give speeches. Why would you go to hear him speak?

And, this nebulous "this" will obviate Hillary's run for president. Kerry's successful ascension to president would mean he could run again in '08 but not '12. What would prevent her then, really?

I believe that doctors can have relationships with people without losing their license, and could fondle them as long as both were agreeable. The relationship Clinton had wasn't forced, purchased nor analogoulsy medically-inethical.

You must have been horribly upset to have heard of Kennedy's trists, or Reagan's fooling around with Nancy while still married to Jane Wyman (let along the rape charges), or GHW Bush's Jennifer Fitzgerald (at taxpayer expense no less). This new Bush boy had enough cocaine to diminish his sex drive, almost a shame you don't like him.

Except for Carter who just lusted in his heart, you just haven't had much luck in the last several decades of your life. Sad.

Bill Clinton does not have control over the democratic party. He did not endorse a candidate. And no one is forcing you to like him.

I think most of us can agree on that.

I just don't hold Bill Clinton in very high esteem. He's certainly
a great politician and he had a fair number of good policies.

He's just not my idea of a Presidential statesman or leader.
I think he should be held to a higher standard of leadership,
to borrow the phrase from Clark.

He gets no pass from me.

That's just my personal opinion. However, after doing some studying about the history of the Democratic party and its presidents, my opinion was reinforced. I, too, enjoyed the prosperity of Clinton's term. And, yes, I would much rather be living in that type of country now than the one we are in. BUT, I can understand what you are saying - yes, there could be someone better. Someone who sets us up for peace and prosperity in the long term, not just during an eight-year presidency. Someone whose vision stretches maybe a bit further than here and now. I hope that person will be John Kerry. I just haven't come to trust him that much yet.

NAFTA
IMF
WTO
GATT
oh and Plan Colombia

I am having enough trouble with stuff like "crying in my teacup about stolen elections" to deal with supplemental shit like that.
We are far away from getting W our of there and already plan to trash Clinton's legacy? CRAP!
Is this just some big revenge game lile the Iraq war then?

let me remind you: Clinton left office with 68% approval. A lot of people are very attached to him. (potential voters) You spread crap like that on behalf of a candidate who has just been landed over us by the Media/DNC - you may keep a lot of Clinton people home in November. I don't think people who adore kerry/hate Clinton are a demografic big enough to even beat Nader!
So, you may want to keep that arrogance in check, for the sake of beating Bush, non?

opinion about Clinton. It's certainly not Kerry's goal.

Whatever.

Its impossible for us all to have the same opinion.

cheers

But the one thing he had going was that he could WIN, and thereby keep the Repuke fascist hordes at bay. I, like you, am really looking forward to liberal to progressive President Kerry. I hope he has long coattails, though, or he'll be stuck battling BFEE, sans *.

And so do we all.

I'm not in the camp of "he was the best" or "he was terrible."

But recently, I was talking to a Republican, about the economy, & the way things are in our country now, & he said,

"Clinton really cared about people; it wasn't an act; he really did care about us, & Bush doesn't."

And I agree with that statement. Clinton cared about us, & Bush does not.

Clinton will ALWAYS be "The Big Dog"







And then there were none!
” JAFO”

You have a right not to like him but calling him a wack job is waaaay over the top. He is a former PRESIDENT and deserves to be treated with respect just as every other former president is.

Clinton will always be the "big dog" whether you like it or not. People who think he was a great president will continue to think he was a good president. You can't take his accomplishments away from him and just because you don't think he deserves respect doesn't mean he hasn't earned the appreciation of the American people. Just learn to deal with it.

Hillary will run or not run for president on her own merits, not those of her husband so nothing Bill does or doesn't do will make any difference in her political career. She has already proven herself in the U.S. Senate

The Big Dog :evilfrown:

of peace and prosperity to prop up Kerry?

Sad, indeed...