GLBT DUers: Barack Obama has just won the 2008 Presidential election

Here's the scenario:

Barack Obama has just won the 2008 Political Superbowl and now it's time for his IOU's to be paid. You are a member of the GLBT community. How do you foresee him repaying the favors owed to those who delivered the "family values" vote?

:)

Fixed now.

:hi:

Neither, to me, seems to really have the interest of gay people at heart. I will certainly vote for one of them over the Republican candidate, but I won't do so cheerfully.

But if either will improve the position of the GLBT community more than another, I'd have to go with the non-status quo candidate.

Unless you think Murdoch gave up $ to Hillary to further your cause.

:scared:

By and large, we have to face facts -- in the scheme of things, it's pretty obvious too few give a rat's ass that there are millions of GLBT people in this country who live every day without the basic human rights *accorded* other citizens in this country.

And some would say "homeless vets".

Other groups also have problems, but as matter of course they have EQUAL LEGAL rights.

A homeless vet may be homeless, but he has the same legal rights as everyone else - unless of course he is gay.

I feel all better now.

who live alongside those vets in appalling numbers.

You are mistaken, and you're also despicable bigot.

You spend an awful lot of time bashing LGBT people.

:-)

We have enough hate to deal with from other people without putting up with theirs too. :eyes:

:eyes:


He needs a pair of these.

It's so apropos. :thumbsup:

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Very little done for GLBT people....no attempts to pass ENDA or federal hate crimes legislation. No attempts to repeal DOMA or DADT. Quite frankly, this applies to a Hillary Clinton adminstration as well. I don't expect anything from either one of them.

can feel comfy.

We gotta be quiet now for the sake of the party. All you uppity queers under the bus!

What bothered me about the McClurkin thing...after McClurkin got on that stage and said "God delivered me from homosexuality" was the complete lack of an apology from Obama. I know he "strongly disagrees" about the "ex-gay" stuff. I get this disconnect from Obama about us. There's no outreach to us.

Frankly, I'm cynical about the candidates and us, period. They can appear on a GLBT forum and that's all well and nice, but I think it's "thrown under the bus time" once again.

guess you haven't been paying attention

http://pride.barackobama.com/page/content/lgbthome

When did Obama say you would have to accept lesser legal status.

There's the "basic set of rights" comment.

And there's the expectation that we're to accept him giving platforms to bigots who lie about gays. Because, y'know, they need outreach and respect.

the basic set of rights that are granted in various federal agencies and programs. It isn't an insult.

I think honoring anti gay bigots is an insult.

because that's all you have to mask the truth which is that the only reason you vote for Hillary is that she's your diva.

Obama prior to McClurkin.

If you were to search, you would not find any DU posts from me as a Hillary partisan before that. I thought they both had potential, and was not committed to Clinton.

Sure. Right. You bet. I've heard it before and it's no more true now than it was then.

I do have to go to work in about an hour though, so if you ask later and I don't answer for a while that's why. But I'll check back into the thread later.

There's just no rationale to be obsessive against Obama over McClurkin and dismiss all the homophobes on Clinton's campaign, especially since he's the one who is going out of his way to confront homophobia and has vowed to end all discriminatory gay legislation. There isn't anything you can say to explain it because it isn't based on reason, it's based on emotion.

Well, so far you've accused me of some sort of double standard or hypocrisy, and of supporting Clinton because she's my diva - a bit of a slur, by the way.

What I would offer in response to your post is this: From my perspective, Clinton and Obama are similar with regard to their policy stance on my issues. But based on Obama's outreach to anti gay bigots, and Clinton's to LGBT persons, I have a sense of where my family and I have a better chance.

I'm sure they both have homophobes in their campaigns. But only one of them went out of his way to give a platform to an "ex gay" bigot - incidentally fueling what I consider one of the greatest threats to the safety of LGBT people.

It would be nice if you could accept that as a sincere and genuine disagreement with your take on it, rather than attributing it to some irrational stance. But I'm not expecting a lot there.

Everybody can keep denying the reality of it, but it's true. It's all been posted, you know who they are. You know she has appeared with them. You just don't care. When people don't care about anything somebody does, it's always due to putting emotions over intellect. It's not personal, it's just reality. I just wish people like the OP would stop posting this irrational vitriol.

I see a difference between Clinton and Obama and that's what makes my decision.

It's not emotion OVER intellect - I recognize the failings of both, but discern some differences.

You may not see it, or you may measure it in some other way.

She actually hires homophobes and has them head parts of her campaign. But the differences you discern favor Hillary. Yeah. Okay. :crazy:

I have to go. Have a good day at work.

Beyond that, I have to make a qualitative and quantitative assessment of both.

And Obama's choices drove me away from him - as they did many other GLBT voters.

No amount of slurring us as irrational or supporting divas will change that.

but a few weeks ago, someone posted here a link to a You Tube video of an interview of Hillary Clinton answering questions about various topics. One of them was about gay and lesbian teenagers. It was a question I didn't expect. But...she answered it, saying that "we value you as you are" (I'm paraphrasing). But...she actually gave some thought to this issue.

I think the difference is...I'm hearing this about Hillary. I'm sorry, but posting "Obama has a great record on GLBT issues" on Democratic Underground just isn't the same thing. I see Hillary making more of an effort to just...talk to us. Talk to GLBT people and us. I'm sure as hell not getting that kind of dialogue or outreach from Barack Obama.

One can "hope"...

Seriously though, I'd be happy with a videotaped appearance. The fundies in SC got at least that much.

Because I was there. No "Hope" there.

And...the bar of expectations is pretty fucking low when you hope a candidate who says he has a "strong record on GLBT issues" can't even be bothered to spend three hours of a Sunday afternoon marching in a parade.

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/52670/

As you can see, none of the candidates have a perfect record. I support both candidates, but I believe Obama has been way more proactive in calling for gay rights than Clinton has.

But Hillary isn't Bill. And if she sent him out to work on anti gay voters with an anti gay message, I'd be opposed to her too.

Unfortunately this election cycle looks just as dismal as it's always been when you're GLBT in Amerika.

but equal isn't an insult anyway? Civil unions are being overturned in favor of marriage in New York, because they don't provide the same benefits, and the New York state constitution stipulates complete equality, and it's been determined that can only happen with marriage. Saying civil unions do provide the same rights doesn't make it so. But straights still love to perpetuate the misinformation that civil unions provide all the rights of marriage, because they don't give a shit that in actuality, they don't.

:eyes:

"Mike Huckabee: Gay Marriage will End Civilization"

http://atheism.about.com/b/2007/12/18/mike-huckabee-gay-marriage-will-end-civilization.htm

:sarcasm:

under Obama than McCain - the Congrss being the variable.

I guess the McClurkin crowd feels inspired all right.

Jamastiene
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theHandPuppet
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:rofl: It's so nice to not hear the homophobes on DU any more. Thank you, Skinner, for the ignore feature. :thumbsup:

Sure we can use the ignore feature, but we shouldn't have to. Nobody should be able to get away with defending homophobia as "that's what most people think." I alerted someone who did that in this thread. There's no justification to allow someone to argue that here, unless we really are second class citizens in the eyes of the mods.

It very rarely happens.

I'm not holding back in calling them homophobes anymore.

Skinner has said repeatedly that he doesn't tolerate homophobia here, but I honestly don't think he sees it as often as it does show up. Otherwise, why would he say he's against it and leave it up?

I know the people I have on ignore in this thread are homophobes. I can tell by the fact that the thread structure is ignored/member of GLBT community's reply to ignored/then ignored again, tit for tat.

The fact that "Ignored" continues to argue for THAT long proves that they are not dealing in facts nor do they listen when given the facts. GLBT members of this board are some of the most knowledgeable people I have ever had the pleasure of learning from about these issues. I can tell that Ignored is a pompous homophobic ass.

You are right that homophobes should be tombstoned, but it rarely happens. Quite a few of the people on DU are borderline homophobic if not outright obnoxious about it. I agree they should be tombstoned, but I don't run the joint. Maybe if more of us in the GLBT community here speak out in a constructive way about this, they will begin to understand what is and is not homophobic. I honestly don't think they know.

mondo joe
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Of course when I'm further down it looks like he's talking to himself. :rofl:

:hi:

And life is all the better for it.

:hi:

And I too, thought mondo joe was talking to himself for a second. Mind you, I'm sure even if he actually were talking to himself, it would still come across as a far more intelligent conversation than the two-sided version. :rofl:

And far more civil.

I think he will likely ignore gay issues. I think we might get ENDA anyhow but I don't expect much else other than good judges, which is nothing to sneeze at. If he gets the nomination, I will be voting for those judges, nothing else.

Don't read this if you want to see how Obama supports LGBT rights and has done so for years.

BARACK OBAMA’S SUPPORT FOR THE GAY AND LESBIAN COMMUNITY
“Most of us do believe that gay couples should be able to visit each other in the hospital and share health care
benefits; most of us do believe that they should be treated with dignity and have their privacy respected by the
federal government.”


BARACK OBAMA ON GAY AND LESBIAN ISSUES

Expand Hate Crimes Statutes: In 2004, crimes against homosexuals constituted the third-highest category of hate crime reported and made up more than 15 percent of such crimes. Barack Obama cosponsored legislation that would expand federal jurisdiction to reach violent hate crimes perpetrated because of race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, or physical disability. As a state senator, Obama passed tough legislation that made hate crimes and conspiracy to commit them against the law.

Fight Workplace Discrimination: Barack Obama believes the Employment Non-Discrimination Act should be expanded to include sexual orientation. While an increasing number of employers have extended benefits to their employees’ domestic partners, discrimination based on sexual orientation in the workplace occurs with no federal legal remedy. Obama also sponsored and passed legislation in the Illinois State Senate that would ban employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

Promote Gay and Lesbian Rights: Barack Obama supported legislation in the Illinois State Senate to prevent discrimination based on sexual orientation in housing and public accommodations.

Support Full Civil Unions: Barack Obama supports civil unions that give gay couples full rights, including the right to assist their loved ones in times of emergency, the right to equal health insurance and other employment benefits currently extended to traditional married couples, and the same property rights as anyone else.

Oppose a Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage: Barack Obama voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment in 2006 which would have defined marriage as between a man and a woman and prevented judicial extension of marriage-like rights to same-sex or other unmarried couples. “We are better than this. And we certainly owe the American people more than this. I know that this amendment will fail, and when it does, I hope we can start discussing issues and offering proposals that will actually improve the lives of most Americans.” (Barack Obama on the Senate floor regarding the Federal Marriage Amendment, June 5, 2006)

Repeal Don’t Ask-Don’t Tell: Barack Obama agrees with former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff John Shalikashvili and other military experts that we need to repeal the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy in consultation with military commanders. The key test for military service should be patriotism, a sense of duty, and a willingness to serve. Discrimination should be prohibited. The U.S. government has spent millions of dollars replacing troops kicked out of the military because of their sexual orientation. Additionally, more than 300 Paid for by Obama for America language experts have been fired under this policy, including more than 50 who are fluent in Arabic. Obama will work with military leaders to repeal the current policy and ensure it helps accomplish our national defense goals.

Expand Adoption Rights. Barack Obama believes that homosexuals should have the same adoption rights as heterosexuals.

Fight AIDS Worldwide: There are 40 million people across the planet infected with HIV/AIDS. Every day, AIDS kills 8,000 and HIV infects 6,000 more people. The disease is set to become the third-leading cause of death worldwide in the coming years. Barack Obama has been a global leader in the fight against AIDS. He traveled to Kenya and took a public HIV test to encourage testing and reduce the stigma of the disease.

Promote AIDS Prevention: Barack Obama believes that we cannot ignore that abstinence and fidelity may too often be the ideal and not the reality. Obama went to a large evangelical conference in 2006 to promote greater investment in the global AIDS battle. At this conservative Christian event, Obama pushed for a balanced approach to fighting the disease that includes condom distribution. In late 2006, Barack Obama worked to reauthorize the Ryan White CARE Act, which is one of the largest sources of federal funds for primary health care and support services for patients with HIV/AIDS. The bill was named after Ryan White, an Indiana teenager whose courageous struggle with HIV/AIDS helped educate the nation.

Empower Women to Prevent HIV/AIDS: In the United States, the percentage of women diagnosed with AIDS has quadrupled over the last 20 years. Today, women account for more than one quarter of all new HIV/AIDS diagnoses. Barack Obama introduced the Microbicide Development Act, which will accelerate the development of products that empower women in the battle against AIDS. Microbicides are a class of products currently under development that women apply topically to prevent transmission of HIV and other infections.

http://www.outfordemocracy.org/docs/2008/obamahrcresponse.pdf

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLhf1YGViyQ

Not all, but most.

Are militant straight people so stupid that they haven't figured out how dangerous unprotected sex is? It's been thirty flipping years!

I would respect your copy-and-paste argument more if Obama's support for educating ignorant straight people wasn't listed as a GLBT issue.

I demand you NOT to read this if you actually think Hillary is more friendly to LGBT rights than Obama. Having her spouse pass the BEST GIFT FOR HOMOPHOBES by signing the so-called Defense of Marriage Act should not be considered as part of the Clintonista history, since she is entitled, she is above reproach and she knows just what's good for the LGBT community, at least during election years.

But wait!

Some homophobes who are not only on Hillary's web site, but one is even getting paid $10,000 a month:

There's Rev. Harold Mayberry:


He's talking about homosexuality as thievery. Oh, but wait! He's on Hillary's web site: http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=2857.

Then there's Darrell Jackson, who made this statement regarding his opposition to same-sex marriage and has renegotiated a nice $10,000 contract with the Clinton team:



He's also on the Hillary web site endorsing her: http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=1339

Then there's Clinton's South Carolina co-chairs, John Matthews and Linda Short. Both voted for the bill in South Carolina to ban same-sex marriage.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1007/Gay_rights_in_SC_contd.html

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/10/24/162436/74

The Obama-bashers have had this stuff pointed out to them time and time again but they ignore it. They're not only hypocrites but the reaction to the McClurkin thing reeks of racism. Several posts have made it fairly obvious what some people believe about the attendees at that gospel concert.

They're not only hypocrites but the reaction to the McClurkin thing reeks of racism.

Says you! LGBT people have been allied with the civil rights movement for decades. Just because I don't support Obama (or the "McClurkin thing") doesn't make me (or any other LGBT person) a racist. You made that up; it's subjective and unsubstantiated.

Furthermore, it says far more about you than any of the LGBT people I know here at DU.

There was a (deleted) poll posted in GD where the DUer (since tombstoned) referred to religious Black women as not only homophobic and stupid, but described them as "shit in the chicken salad" of the Democratic party.

Sorry, but I have a strong sense that had HRC invited McClurkin or Ted Haggard to perform for her in front of a white audience the reaction would not be nearly as strong. There'd be criticism, yes, but nothing like what's been leveled at Obama.

I have a strong sense that had HRC invited McClurkin or Ted Haggard to perform for her in front of a white audience the reaction would not be nearly as strong."

Total bullshit, race-baiter.

And based on the non-reaction to known homophobes being on HRC's campaign, I suspect it's on target.

Because there haven't been any homophobes emceeing her campaign events, and spewing homophobia on stage. Your apples don't match that orange, and they never will.

$10000 a month consultants who co-chair your SC campaign, no prob!

The Hillary campaign isn't paying anyone who promotes homophobia in her name.

Obama should have disinvited McClurkin and Clinton should have fired Darrell Jackson. Neither did.

Because I wouldn't have a problem with Obama or anyone else having homophobes associated with their campaign, who keep their mouth shut on the subject, and don't promote bigotry at a campaign event. There's inevitably going to be racists and homophobes associated with anyone's campaign, they exist in the population at large. However if they don't feel free to promote those views in conjunction with the candidate's campaign, I don't have a problem with it. You may not agree with me, but that is my opinion and it means I don't have a double-standard. I would hate Hillary's guts if she had an ex-gay activist emcee one of her campaign events, and then told the Advocate that we have to face that there are "good, decent and moral" people who don't yet accept gays.

You're playing the race card to try to discredit criticism of Obama about McClurkin. Just as underhanded as your candidate, no surprise.

He's a SC lawmaker who has opposed gay marriage on the floor of the Legislature. Neither has Harold Mayberry, a Clinton endorser who compared being gay to "theivery".


http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/10/24/162436/74

Don't miss that part again, I specified that I don't care as long as they don't promote those views IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE CANDIDATE'S CAMPAIGN.

Okay, I'll grant you are right in that McClurkin did make asinine remarks about his ex-gayness at the gospel event, but they were directly related to the shitstorm that had formed as a result of his appearace. But the outrage was fomenting WELL before that, when he was merely invited and no one knew what role he was going to play other than singing. Meanwhile, the Clinton campaign was using the Human Rights Campaign and other groups to instigate and ramp up the outrage, including here on DU. People were not only demanding that Obama take him off the lineup but were insisting that the mistake of not properly vetting a performer was proof that he was unfit to be president. Didn't take long for her associations were revealed, but by that time her minions had swarmed the internets and drowned out the cries for balance. By that time, Obama was in a very precarious position. He had a choice between offending 2 very important Dem constituencies. Whereas the hypocrites of the Clinton campaign laughed all the way to the bank to sign Darrell's $10000 checks.


I guess since you accused me of race-baiting, may I accuse Clinton supporters of gay-baiting? Because that's exactly what they are doing. 90% of McClurkin threads are started by Clinton supporters.

There still would've been grumbling, but it wouldn't have had the legs it's had, since he emceed and preached that he'd "suffered from those feelings", until Jesus delivered him from homosexuality, while the crowd cheered him on. And then I wasn't satisfied with Obama's response, especially the quote to the Advocate about homophobes being "good, decent, and moral." Switch around the gender and races, and my response would've been exactly the same. I used to hate Hillary before the McClurkin incident, as a matter of fact. I didn't think Obama was that much more liberal than her, but I thought he was slightly more liberal than her. Edwards was my candidate until he dropped out.

Oh, well, that makes branding the rest of us a bunch of racists all right then, doesn't it? :eyes:

Let's not make assumptions about "hypocritical" gay people based on the posts of those who have been tombstoned.

And how can you ask any of us to answer a double-standard hypothetical like the one you present? We could split hypothetical hairs from now until November.

From my point of view, this is about McClurkin and his actions. It's also about Obama because many gay people begged him to remove McClurkin from the event. Obama didn't care and McClurkin had his bully pulpit. Actions speak louder than words.

edit: "to"

Pretty sure they were a Clinton supporter, though.

I agree with you that McClurkin should have been disinvited, particularly since he used the platform to advance his moronic views. However, it was obvious from his remarks that he was defending himself from the controversy. Not surprising since he's probably a huge narcissist. By the time the Clinton campaign got through instigating netroots outrage through groups like the Human Rights Campaign, Obama was placed between a rock and a hard place. He either offended the gay community or he offended the black religious community (HUGE voting bloc in SC). He made his choice and is paying the price for it with the LGBT community. That's fine but it's irritating to see Hillary Clinton benefitting from it, despite her own associations. It's not like she's going to push for marriage equity anytime soon, is it?

If HRC had or does have a homophobe, particularly one of the "Ex-Gay" variety, go on stage in front of thousands to spew bigotry to the cheers of the crowd (who obviously shares those views) I'll send her a very detailed letter telling her exactly why she will not be getting my vote. But she hasn't done that so for now I've voted for her in the primary and I intend to vote for her in the GE assuming she makes it that far.

When/if one of those "ex-gay" pulpit pounders hits the stage as part of a HRC campaign event, she can kiss my gay ass, too. I always have the option of a write-in vote. I've never exercised tht privilege but there's always a first time.

...when you're way too fucking intelligent to really believe that shit.

Support whomever you choose but this talk about a Democrat setting up reeducation camps is just shrill and hysterical. Good god.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/profiles/chi-070121-relig_wright,0,5184608.story?coll=chi_news_custom_religion_promo

Obama state that his relgious beliefs prevent him from supporting same sex marriage, and I quote "marriage is between a man and a woman" even though his Church endorsed same sex marriage.

Why did Obama decide to hire and tour around the country with a ex-gay revival-style preacher who claims to be able to cure the gays -- "deliver them from homosexuality"?
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/obamas-gospel-concert-tour/

Obama really doesn't believe we count and only cares about us as far as our wallets and our votes. :shrug:

So I done much see the point.

...that Obama's church -- and certainly his entire denomination -- is more liberal on LGBT issues than Obama himself is.

Assuming this "outreach to gay and lesbian singles" is exactly what it appears to be, I applaud Pastor Wright.

It is unfortunate that Obama has not lived up to the egalitarian standards of his own pastor.

If I thought I did, I'd be able to take a stand one way or the other on Obama. Part of me says he'll put GLBTs on the back-burner, and do his best to forget about them. The other part says he'll pay them back for the indignities he's allowed in the name of campaigning, with progressive legislation on gay rights, like ENDA and ending DADT and DOMA. We'll see.

I think ENDA and DADT repeal will get done under Clinton or Obama. DOMA is another matter because it's such a political football. If Congress sends President Clinton or President Obama a bill to repeal DOMA I think they would sign it. The question is whether we have the votes or not. Congressmen are more or less spineless cowards that do what polls tell them to do. I wonder if DOMA could be challenged in the courts.

Hillary is probably right in trying to only get part of it repealed. Barack's promising to repeal it all, doesn't necessarily mean he could repeal it all. He could screw up, or give up, and then none of it would be repealed.

That means transgender people aren't even going to be on the bus with Obama.

Our transgendered friends always seem to get the worst of it, sorry to say.

Hang in there with us. We won't stop fighting for our rights!

:hi:

Expand Hate Crimes Statutes
In 2004, crimes against LGBT Americans constituted the third-highest category of hate crime reported.
Obama co-sponsored legislation to expand federal hate crimes law to include crimes perpetrated
because of sexual orientation or gender identity.

Fight Workplace Discrimination and Promote Rights
Obama believes the Employment Non-Discrimination Act should be expanded to include sexual orientation
and gender identity. Obama sponsored legislation in the Illinois State Senate that would ban employment
discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

Support Full Civil Unions and Federal Rights for LGBT Couples
Barack Obama supports full civil unions that give same-sex couples equal legal rights and privileges as
married couples, including the right to assist their loved ones in times of emergency as well as equal
health insurance, employment benefits, and property and adoption rights. Obama also believes we need
to fully repeal the Defense of Marriage Act and enact legislation that would ensure that the 1,100+ federal
legal rights and benefits currently provided on the basis of marital status are extended to same-sex
couples in civil unions and other legally-recognized unions.

Oppose a Constitutional Ban on Same-Sex Marriage
Obama voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment, which would have defined marriage as between
a man and a woman and prevented judicial extension of marriage-like rights to same-sex or other unmarried
couples.

Repeal Don’t Ask-Don’t Tell
Obama believes we need to repeal the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. The key test for military service
should be patriotism, a sense of duty, and a willingness to serve. Obama will work with military leaders
to repeal the current policy and ensure we accomplish our national defense goals.

Fight AIDS Worldwide
Obama has been a global leader in the fight against AIDS. He traveled to Kenya and took a public HIV
test to encourage testing and reduce the stigma of the disease. Obama worked to reauthorize the Ryan
White CARE Act, one of the largest sources of federal funds for primary health care and support services
for HIV/AIDS patients.

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/lgbt.pdf
http://pride.barackobama.com/page/content/lgbthome

It would be difficult to repeal it all. Obama is promising to repeal it all, but what if that causes a backlash, and what if he lacks Hillary's skill and can't even get any of it repealed? I'm not saying Hillary's position is better, but from a pragmatic and strategic point of view, it is arguably as good. Having some of it repealed would be better than none.

to define marriage as heterosexual only, it may take us several more decades to overturn given how right wing the supreme court is currently.

Nice try Handpuppet!

Where have you been?

Too bad you didn't stay away longer and that you find the fight for civil rights for 30 million Americans so damned funny.

and expect his continued support through out his term(s).

:eyes:

Jesus Gawd. Get a freakin grip, people!

Some of us have, over the years of being treated like dog shit, cultivated a rather dark sense of humor. Some of those choices were intended to be sarcastic and others quite serious. If you can't tell the difference, it's your problem, not mine.

which includes sponsoring the bill that added sexual orientation to the Illinois human rights code.

Can you honestly look anyone in the LGBT community in the eye and say that HRC is on their side after the record of the Nineties?

I'm not a long-time Obama supporter, but you really aren't giving the guy a chance. It was just one nutjob at one rally.

Signing DOMA was much worse than that. Signing DOMA actually gave aid and comfort to your enemies and didn't protect anything.

...it was not "ONE crazy preacher at ONE rally."

And if you're genuinely that clueless about Obama's repeated slaps to the collective face of the LGBT community, you haven't read a single post about the issue since last October. Get cracking.

You also know it's utterly disingenuous to blame DOMA and DADT on Hillary. Cut the shit before you completely undermine your credibility.

I'm not sure people understand how offensive the "ex-gay" movement and the people who shill for them (like Donnie McClurkin) is to GLBT people, like myself. I don't like being told that homosexuality is a "curse" that needs to be "cured". And I think it's wrong for candidates to give a forum to people like that.

It's just that, as far as I know, that was the only really bad thing Obama has done on the issue. It's hard for me to see that as worse than DOMA and selling out on gays in the military.

She wasn't. I know the argument is she can't claim the experience of being in the White House with Bill, without also taking all the blame for everything bad he did, but the simple fact of the matter is those weren't her decisions and actions.

Anyway the McClurkin stuff, and quotes like we have to face that there are "good, decent and moral people" who don't yet accept gays, are disturbing enough on their own. Having sympathy for homophobic bigots isn't usually very high up on the list of priorities for gays. And you know what, we also think a Democratic presidential candidate acting like protecting and coddling homophobes should be a high priority, is pretty darn offensive. Look it, what it gets down to is the exit polls are showing gays are overwhelmingly supporting Hillary over Obama. We are weighing everything, and most of us are coming to the conclusion that she is more trustworthy. Who are you as a straight person, to tell us we're wrong? Not until you've walked in our shoes, buddy.

Still, you have to face the fact that Bill is going to be there 24/7 giving her more advice than anybody else. In the Nineties, Bill's strategy, in every situation that ever happened, was always to throw not only gays but the ENTIRE DEMOCRATIC COALITION under the bus. The only people he served were the people who voted for #41 and Dole. He's gonna tell her "ditch the gays, ditch the blacks, ditch labor, ditch Latinos, ditch everybody but the 'burbs" over and over again. Doesn't that make you folks the least little bit nervous?

I agree that Obama needs work, but it's hard to believe you're better off with the candidate who, overall, is to the right of the other candidate. It's your call, I do recognize that.

Whoever we elect, we're all gonna have to spend a lot of time marching on D.C. to get him or her to do the right thing. Remember that.

That, and we all need to work for electoral reform so that we can tell the finicky, uptight white straights in the 'burbs to fuck off, and then get the Real Progressive Rainbow Majority into power.

Seriously.

Don't blame the wife for what the husband did. She was not president back then. Husbands and wives often disagree on issues. Case in point: John and Elizabeth Edwards do not agree on gay marriage.

Quit trying to blame Hillary for what happened during Bill's presidency. SHE didn't do that. HE did. You are comparing apples to oranges here.

And the damage done goes way beyond the Embrace the Homophobia Change tour. Read everything on McClurkin and all the homophobes at the concert, Kirbyjon Caldwell, and Obama's continual pandering to homophobes. Also read up on how truly evil the "Ex-Gay" movement is. It goes way beyond anything DOMA could ever do to the LGBT community. DOMA keeps us from having federally recognized marriage rights. The "Ex-Gay" movement seeks to do that, eradicate all of our rights on top of that and eradicate us completely. They're insidious and anybody who supports them in any way cannot be tolerated.

It's hard to see that what was done in the 90's was any gay-friendlier. They should at least have forced Congress to override a veto on DOMA. Clinton didn't gain a single vote for the Dems by signing it.

Neither candidate is a great prize on LGBT issues, from what I can see. And you never see the more conservative candidate end up being the more gay-friendly one. Ever.

survey, gays preferred Clinton to Obama by about 2 to 1. Exit polling in CA and NY confirmed that.

Obama has treated us poorly, with McClurkin, by being an apologist for bigots, and by trying to base a fair approach on shared SIN instead of shared DIGNITY.

Who is "they"? It was a Republican heavy Congress led by Newt Gingrich. DOMA was a compromise designed to prevent an FMA style full-out ban on same-sex marriage that would have kept even individual states from allowing same-sex couples to marry. All in all, I think Bill Clinton did the best he could under the circumstances.

Please accept my apologies if I've offended you in your experience on the matter. I've also just started a thread, as an Obama supporter, calling on the Senator to address these problems. Here's a link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4509678&mesg_id=4509678

John Edwards said he is not ready to give us our marriage rights, but his wife is for gay marriage.

Hillary was not president in the 90s. Either she can't take credit and run on the merits of her husband's two terms in office or she gets blamed for what he did. You can't have it both ways. Pick one. Either she gets blamed for everything everyone did wrong for the entire decade of the 90s when it is convenient for Hillary bashers or she is only held accountable for her own record only, which is as it should be. She wasn't president in the 90s. Those were her husband's deeds, not hers. So which is it going to be? The mind fuck is getting old.

But the more I read some of the responses on this thread, the more I realize that if some people even here on DU can twist themselves into pretzels trying to rationalize the continued, inexcusable and abhorrent shame of 30 million of their fellow citizens not having the basic human rights every American should have in the name of decency, then we really don't have a prayer because when it comes right down to it this isn't about real hope and inspiration for a better world, it's only about some fantasy that makes them feel good about themselves. Real change comes about by facing the hard and painful realities and fighting for what is right.

Barack Obama slapped GLBT folks in this country right in the face by pandering to sick, pulpit-pounding "ex-gay" homophobes when it benefitted him. Outside the GLBT community itself, where is the outrage? Instead all we get are excuses, rationalizations. We are called insane, delusional, idiotic, racist, accused of being part of a conspiracy, etc. Yes, it's OUR fault, don't you see? We need to shut up for the good of the party and continue to take this crap over and over and over again every election cycle, our hopes and dreams the perpetual sacrifical lamb on the damned altar of the party. In the meanwhile, GLBTs in this country are suffering, losing benefits and jobs, committing suicide, being harrassed and even killed. Thousands of children are being tossed into the streets just for being gay. But for God's sake don't get pushy about it! We might cost someone an election!

To hell with it. To say I am DISillusioned is an understatement. I'm too old not to have seen the same old tripe come rolling around every time some politico makes the circuit trolling for votes. Now that my two preferred candidates have already dropped out, I'm left with a choice between Obama and Clinton. Wow. :sarcasm: I'm going with Hillary because to me she is by far the most experienced of the two and I am confident she can best handle the job of chief executive, but to be honest I don't trust either one of them on the issue of GLBT rights. I'm not that naive. Maybe I'm just tied of getting my hopes up only to have them thrown back in my face -- or in the case of Obama, a pile of homophobic shit flung in my face and being told to eat it by his followers.

In over thirty five years of being a politically active Democratic voter, I have never felt so uninspired by an election. Hope for some, but a grand disappointment for others.

gay kids living on the streets, and gay kids living in fear and isolation.

You don't even give a shit about these issues except for political scratch.

Party on!

:sarcasm:

Obama dances cheek to cheek on national TV with the Gipper's skeletal remains: