What the Fuck is wrong with you people?

when you don't have leadership - triangulate

when you don't have momentum - trivialize the win

and when you realize that there are no more arrows in your quiver


prevaricate + trivialize + triangulate the supporters = cult

and yes, it's sooooo true

And we know that some people can't handle the truth :hi:

You have to be a complete and total idiot to think Obama's supporters are part of a cult. Not to mention a stain on the rest of the Demoratic Party.

They are lead by a guy named The Pope! I think it's a cult. I mean I hope it's a cult, 'cause I didn't join for the snacks (have you tasted that cracker? BLAND!)

hey, theredpen! thanks, that's the best laugh I've had all day!

It sound like children fighting and name calling.

Dammit people, read what the OP says. If we don't have a unified goal and present a unified front, we're all fucked and another war-mongering shithead will be occupying the White House.

I occasionally saunter on over to FreakRepublic, and even some over there are giggling about how awful and childish it is here at DU. If the freepers are laughing because of the childish shit, then we are in serious trouble.

is a bit childish and inflammatory :shrug:

Actually it is quite matter-of-fact. The childish discourse is what is childish and inflammatory about this whole thing. The OP saying "WTF" is merely him/her expressing their disbelief that this forum, which is supposed to be the intellectual gathering place for democratic and progressive ideals, seems to be the gathering place of sniveling, snot nose, little children.

:donut:

:-)

And I'm sick of hearing that there is no substantive difference between the candidates. That is just not true.

in the early 60's. People who believed in the kennedys were just being cultish, and I'm sure its their children who are causing the same "problems" with obama.

Or here's an idea. We finally have a candidate that is asking us to believe in an idea and now just settle for second best. Im a cynic, I was planning on voting for hillary but I think its time to take a chance and vote for someone with some truly great ideas. I still like hillary and she has my vote if she wins the nomination, but reducing obama's base to a "cult" is intellectually weak.

so-called cult on this board.

When Hillary is criticised on points of policy and her supporters reply with accusations of the critic being a cultist, or troll, or republican, that is the reaction of someone who is a cultist.

Just saying...

But as I said, I will fully support and vote for Obama if he's the nominee.

4 more years of Republican rule simply isn't an option for me.

support Obama (only 'cause Kucinich is out) and will vote for who ever the nominee ends up being.

I am voting for a democrat no matter WHO it is!

This whole ..... "oh I don't know" bullshit got us fucking Bush in 2000.

does the OP want us to become the stepford party.

I'm tired of DINOs. Lotta good our unity and votes got us in 2006

I'm tired of spin, triangulation and crap from those with D beside their name

I'm tired of being sick and tired!

If the party held together in Connecticut and put a real Democrat in office The Senate would have had a real majority. Instead the leadership must deal with the is it ok with Joe reality that hangs over them.

This example should be like a bucket of ice water thrown in the faces of those who can't see past these primaries. Either we elect a Democrat who will appoint more liberal judges than McCain or we will all suffer from the effects of this election for the rest of our lives. At this point I really don't care which one wins my enemy isn't Hillary or Obama my enemy is the neo con agenda. I'm glad that people are supporting their choice with such passion just remember when the smoke clears what this is all about. Remember who the real enemy is and what the repercussions of you not putting your support behind our nominee will be.

Fuck Democrats, Fuck Republicans. What I'm looking for is a genuine progressive/liberal or whatever you want to call it. I am sick and damn tired of the answer as to why I should vote Democratic is because the D is better than the R. The fact is that it's true. The fact is the system is BROKEN. The fact also is that nobody seems to want to talk about the fact that we need a new system.

On another note, I don't come to DU that often. I post occasionally, but damn...this crap about cults, etc. is just straight up stupid. So someone has fervor for their candidate...that's a good thing! People need to stop dressing up "I disagree with you" as "You're in a fucking cult." Frankly, that's the stuff I see the religious right doing. They don't just disagree with you, they believe that those who disagree with them are evil, Satanic, or whatever because God is on "their" side. I am a former GOP-er, worked for a Member of the 1994 class in the House, and saw this mentality firsthand, which REALLY turned me off to the GOP (and one reason I won't go back).

So, really folks, stop with the silly name-calling. See fervor for what it is...fervor. I, for one, am happy to see fervor, passion, and intensity. Look over on the other side and see a complete lack of passion and intensity for their presumptive nominee. A 74 year old white man, whom 65% the party dislikes. So appreciate fervor. But, you know...we really need to work on tearing down this system and building a new one. Only when politicians really FEAR the people will things get done.

"I'm tired of spin, triangulation and crap...."

Tired of POLITICS are we?

:)

I posted similar sentiments 3 days ago:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4449977

where I also noted: "Looking for positive posts/threads is like wading through raw sewage in hip boots looking for a 4 leaf clover."

:boring:

nm

A movement not towards unity of thought, but of purpose - a place where differences can be discussed honestly without childish insults.

the admins are looking at ways to aid this technically, but it takes those of us who care to make it better.
Let bad posts sink - defend facts over smears, regardless of which candidate, tell people to stop denigrating good dems just for endorsing another candidate, etc.

DU is too valuable to allow it to descend into freeperville.

There seems to be operatives from the Clinton campaign on here who SEEM to be paid hacks. #-4 times an hour certain names that are becoming familiar are posting propaganda threads and Obama supporters are calling therm on it. It gets ugly but we've gone through over 7 years of this kind of stuff and our senses are keenly aware of when we are getting "sold" and it insults our intelligence. Look, I know it's happening from both sides but I swear mommy THEY STARTED IT...LOL

BOTH sides have a segment that is vitriolic and ugly, with a 'slash and burn' mentality ....

I haven't compared the exact numbers, but I suspect they are generally equal in number ....

You dont mention Obama 'operatives' .... Why would they be any different ?

FYI: I support BOTH Obama and Clinton ...

I see what I have long suspected as Clinton staffers here throwing threads up at an alarming pace-and in response Obama supporters do the same-BUT I believe they aren't paid shills like the Clinton ones-that's the way I've been reading them anyway, but WTF do I know...

whichever one wins it fair and square.I just hope for the partyt's sake it doesn't come down to some sleazy backroom deal between Super delegate insiders that skew the results

I have noticed the Hillary supporters are very clear about their support. I also notice that any Hillary critic is immediatly accused by Hillary supporters of being Obama supporters - though many, many were Kucinich, Edwards, even Biden supporters, and stated as much. Didn't deter the Hillary supporters who were invested in it being a 2 person race, between Hillary and Obama. Their interest was in making the Hillary critics a small, vocal group belonging to one opponant, rather than a fairly wide ranging difference of opinions.

"FYI: I support BOTH Obama and Clinton ..."

Me too...

But I REALLY support John Edwards. Let's hope whoever wins places him in a good position, like AG. And get Kucinich a power position too while they're at it.

The position of Prez is not all there is, y'know. Look at it now! You thin Bush came up with this mess we're in alone? He merely allows it to happen. Cheney is obviously the guy to go to in this fake, unelected adminitration... and no one elected him!

Wow--it is all HACKS from another candidate causing the dissent?

No the problem is people treat politics as a life and death "if my candidate doesn't win then the world will explode." That is the most RIDICULOUS attitude ever.

Clinton would not be a horrible choice. She will make good and bad decesions that will lean toward the democratic viewpoint.

Obama would not be a horrible choice. He would make good and bad decesions that would lean toward the democratic viewpoint.

McCain and his "we'll continue this iraq strategy until we get it done" would be a horrible mistake! McCain and another 4 years of republican corruption, appointing of right wing judges, continuation of deregulation to support corporations is a mistake.

And that is the thought every democrat should keep in mind before they spout the verbal warfare against the democratic candidates.

Stop posting hate about the other candidate and start posting positive about yours. And when teh choice is made, get over it.

Read the post preceding yours and notice that NO ONE called ANYONE or either candidates names until YOU!

:hi:

I am also sick of all the kindergarten tactics that have popped up here. Sometimes it sounds like nothing more than a pack of Republicans.

:)

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Post content to be commended as well, of COURSE, but I have often thought the same thing when visiting GDP--:wtf:

I also have been a "lurker" on this board since it began. It is amazing how low things have gotten. I'm still hopeful that after everyone fights this out that we can all just vote for the "D" in the general election. Clinton supporters can hold their noses and pull the lever for Obama or Obama supporters can hold their nose and vote for Clinton. In either case the candidate is going to be better on judicial nominations than John McCain and Lindsay Graham/Mike Huckabee/Condi Rice/Charlie Crist, etc...

This is Democratic Underground. When the time comes we all need to rally around the party and make sure that we put the democratic nominee into the white house.

Thanks,
J

Then we might not have to hold our noses when we vote.

Sorry if I care about a Democrat winning in November of this year more than appearing 'united' right now. When I see fellow Democrats wanting to shoot the party in the foot by nominating a polarizing figure such as Hillary it infuriates me. We have this election in the bag yet we want to choose the one candidate that can drive the GOP base out of their homes come the general election. Frankly, I think some of her supporters are blinded by this fact simply because she is a woman, and Hillary is doing well in the primaries because 65% of the Democratic primary voters are women.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUiEd0IHaDs
Dems in November

giving the W treatment to one of the Dems.

I told them to stop touching me but they wouldn't quit. I did. I said, "Stop touching me" and they just kept right on doing it. Finally, I had to fight back.


















:hide:

















:P

Oh, Kicked and Recommended, btw. :D

Blatant child pornography! I expected better from someone with a Beaker avatar...

:D

a lot. By removing the top 50 flamebait posters, I find Du to be much more tolerable.

"Who are the top 50 flamebait posters on DU? And do you have them on ignore?" Call it a public service thread.

But seriously, this is one of the few threads here lately that I could read all the way through, and then have something positive to say.


Thanks for the oasis.

A lot of our newbie trolls probably go away after a while, only to resurface with a new name.

Duplicate post

I simply can't understand why people who claim to be open minded and rational and to respect free and open discourse hit the Ignore button for anyone who disagrees with or annoys them. And then act so proud of themselves for doing it. If you don't like what someone is saying, either fire back or just skip over them....it's not that hard. You can't appreciate a discussion or contribute meaningfully if you snip out big chunks of it, and even people who are obnoxious sometimes have something useful to say.

I'll (thirty)second that!! ~~~~Gossip just puts us all to sleep, distract, distract, tick, tock~~~~

:evilgrin:

much more willing to work together than the people around here lately. But other than that, I agree entirely. :hi:

And no, I'm not a fucking cultist (for all you about to say so).

precisely because I am fed up and would as soon throw my vote to the Repukes, because I AM fed up with the hillbot vs. obmambot

That's important. All fun and games now, but come election time, I'll go Dem no question.

whats going to change? The Democrats/Pelosi/Reid cartel already showed that they would betray us once.

I am just being realistic. Looking at our glorious leaders track record.

I just have this horrified vision that we live in a HP Lovecraft universe, where justice means nothing, that evil overwhelms all, that this is just going to go from bad to worse. Not one of real (democrats) canidates has said anything substantial. Nothing. I mean if the face of that, why not toss it to the lunatics...I mean at least we know what he'll do. If Dems take it the populace will sit and beg for scraps of hope at the DNC's table like some starving mongrel.

I don't think much will change. I do think with Dems nominating SCOTUS we'll have nominees which lean a smidgen more towards positions I'd agree with. Big business, corporatists, moneyed interests will continue to get their way for quite some time. I'll continue to work at local levels for that one, but in the meantime I will go Dem.

gets off my soapbox


:)

I have absolutely no delusion that electing Democrats will solve our problems. That's one of the many reasons I'm actually a member of a third party.

The issue is what to do about it.

One thing that I'm sure will not work is becoming cynical and saying "fuck it, let the Republicans win". The Republicans, given enough power, will make sure we can't do anything about American politics for a very long time, and they'll do it by any means necessary.

Cynicism isn't the answer. Organizing, from the bottom up, is the answer. There's more than one way to address the problem through organizing and building our own power. One tactic is to reform the Democratic Party. Another is to strengthen a national third party like the Greens. Another is to form a new third party with the local structure to make it genuinely competitive. Yet others are to work to strengthen organized labor, to challenge corporate media and to build up successful alternative media that reaches an audience outside of us usual suspects, to organize poor people to actively resist further attacks on them and to demand a better life (note: if you're middle class or better, it would be best here to offer to take a supporting role and assist poor people with leadership abilities to be able to assume leadership roles. There are plenty of poor people capable of leadership if all of their energy isn't diverted to survival)... <omit countless other potential examples, left to your imagination>.

What I think is that ALL such ideas should be pursued, even the superficially contradictory ones. If I were a healthier person I would work to create a national network of progressive pro-democracy groups
(even those who hate each other) for the purposes of exchanging information and voluntarily coordinating activities. We don't need one way to do things, when what is really important is one direction.

Brace yourself to sacrifice for a nation you can believe in. Organizing to defend and advance freedom demands personal sacrifice, Anyone who thinks it can or should be a painless hobby is deceiving themselves.

Pick your project, at a level you can effectively operate. If you can operate at a national or international level, think grand plans. If, like most people, you can only hope to influence your neighborhood (at first), start right there.

Then do it.

(Just in case anyone thinks I'm blowing smoke out my ass trying to get other people to do what I won't do, PM me and I'll happily give you my real name to Google, plus hints as to what newspaper archives to search. Despite failing health, limited resources, and personal responsibility to care for another severely disabled person, I'm living what I preach.)

In the meanwhile, I'm voting for the Democratic nominee. Nose plugs are cheap. Recovering from full-blown fascism is very, very, slow and expensive.

Anyone who deludes themselves that making things worse will "wake people up" needs to remind themselves that fascists have successfully closed down for decades many a fully awake society. Besides, I don't find a lot of people who think all is well with America, and neither do pollsters. What I find is a lot of people who have no idea what to do about it, and that's where organizing comes in.

Not possible as long as this truth remains: Hillary Clinton CANNOT beat John McInsane.

Thanks!

He was one of the other candidates with substance. I don't believe either Clinton nor Obama do and the poo being flung in both camps at each other sort of proves it.

is what the f--- is wrong with our candidates that they cannot seem to rally the troops and solidify our base. What is wrong with the platforms of the candidates that they do not speak to the majority of the Democratic Party and therefore do not garner a majority of supporters? Why are we so fractured? Why are our candidates so divisive?

in it's end days, the politicians are no longer from the people....THEY ARE A POLITICAL CLASS ABOVE THE PEOPLE.

They don't view us as anything more than "the great unwashed masses" Bush is the perfect example of a unintellectual Caligula/Marie Antoinette obsessed with the trappings of power unable to see beyond his own nose.

At a certain point there will be upheaval and "the unwashed masses" will use whatever we can substitute for the guillotine and a reset will occur, however the America we know will be long gone.

As I was scraping 3" of ice off my driveway. I put a Repub. in his place earlier today, by defending both Obama and Hillary over any of their candidates, and the last 7 years of the idiot in the Whitehouse, and it got me thinking. I was going to post a rant much like this. Thanks for saving me the time.

I posted a teeny tiny line on another thread just barely mentioning something like "couldn't we just NOT self-destruct this time?"
And you'da thought I'd nominated Hitler.
Sheesh.

I feel EXACTLY what you wrote.
Except last year we bought a house with a garage, so I don't have to scrape ice (i can't even spell hallelujah but I feel your pain).

I hardly tread past the "Breaking News" threads any more.

Sad.

Shall we save the mud (or cream pies) for McOldGuy?

Thanks for posting.

I don't post often, but this post said it all.

is wrong with you people"?

Civil like that?

:wtf:

My wife and I have triplet girls and whenever things get way to loud and I feel like I need everyones attention to cool things down, I GET FUCKING PISSED OFF AND YELL AND CURSE....and it works! Just like with the sandlot bunch....

I've been checking DU for years, and I don't care what anyone says - it has become fairly repulsive.

People are bashing our own candidates harder than they ever bashed the chimpster.

then sadly I must give a resounding, "FUCK NO!"

And it is people like you that solidify my resolve to abstain, if Obama is the nominee.

I agree with the original poster 100%. I had vowed not to come back to this site at all, but I did on a whim, and am glad to see someone saying these things. It is all well and good to differ on policies and candidate preferences, but all this childish wailing when someone doesn't get exactly what they want is ridiculous. The Democratic Party is a BIG umbrella that covers many points-of-view. Would it be better to have many parties, as most other countries do? Perhaps. But even there, they must form coalitions to get anything done. And in any case, there is never any good reason to be discourteous.

I agree with your thoughts all too well....good addition...

Politics inspires PASSIONATE feelings when discussing our candidates. The Democratic party traditionally conducts spirited debates when selecting new standard bearers. We'll ALL get along, after the dust clears; when the general election is a couple months away. We're choosing a new government, not head hall-monitor at the rest home!

I have no issues keeping my wife happy at all....you're wife might actually be jealous. Pleas keep the personal shit out of civil political discourse. No need to "swiftboat" the thread...

I think you are over reacting. DU is a great place to express opinions. If you think we all will agree on everything, you are sadly mistaken. We will have unity once the nominee is chosen. Until then, let the good times roll:)..................

appalling. Appalling to defend that Schuster - whatever his name (I don't watch TV) in one camp for an utterly degrading sexist remark, appalling to defend racist code language in the other camp. If we supporters don't hold our candidates to account, we are fools and worse - we're sacrificing ethics to expediency, and we'll no doubt get exactly what we deserve: the exact same behavior by our candidate once s/he's elected.

Since when does our political passion for our candidate translate into not voting for the Democratic nominee.

But if you are looking for a candidate that has built a campaign on the issues rather than smear tactics........... I'm going to go with Barrack.

I agree with you on Barack, but my ultimate point was that ANY Democratic nominee is better than any Republican....Period!

I'm with you. Despite my relatively low post count, I've been on DU on an almost daily basis for over 7 years, and I've NEVER seen it this ridiculous. People absolutely have the right to be passionate about their candidates but the Clinton/Obama war here is depressing and infuriating and stupid and reflects badly on BOTH candidates' supporters.

Thankfully DU is not representative of Democratic voters as a whole, who according to polls generally like BOTH candidates, and will unite behind the nominee.

Man, some of you people need to wake up.

Unless Hillary is found to have been Cheney's evil advisor or Obama Bush's secret right-hand man, you need to wake up and smell the fucking coffee.

You enemy is OVER THERE, not in your own fucking political neighborhood....

You should be PROUD that you have even SANE and REASONABLE candidates.

That said, I understand that YOU WON'T BE FOOLED AGAIN, but your main battle ain't with the Dem nomination.

Not by far.

:hi:

There's nothing wrong with disagreement and passionate debate, but the level of discourse on this board has become an embarrassment.

K&R

Lieberman is not a Dem...he's in the "Conn. for Lieberman" party.

You think Pelosi & Reid are the same as Delay? Gingrich? Frist? Cunningham? Thurman?...etc etc

Yes, the current leaders are a disappointment...but think again!

Unity.

Ommended!!!!:headbang:

what a bush presidency did to the republican party. Unity at the expense of everything? No thanks.

- our futile flailings and infantile babblings.... none of that matters! When we've got Rush and Coultergiest supporting Hillary, is not the outcome already spelled out for us???

of a lot longer than the vast majority of posters" and yet only 519 posts. :shrug:

Democratic unity is important AFTER we select a nominee

'Til then, sorry, I am most passionate about the war and don't think it's selfish to dissent with those who think IWR and all its ramifications don't matter.

BTW, what's with your tone starting your thread with "WTF is wrong with you people?!' Talk about childish and inflammatory...

If you don't have something nice to say, it is better to say nothing at all about fellow Democrats...

there are some Democrats who suck! And I will exercise my right to say so while I still can.

that people are being passionate about their candidate during the primaries. Many, many people on DU have clearly and unequivocally stated that they will NEVER support the Democratic nominee in November if it is not their favorite, no matter what the result of their staying home or voting Independent might be. They have already completely rejected the idea of Democratic unity (which you say is important) in the general election. Given that the foreseeable if not likely result of this kind of thinking will be ANOTHER 8 YEARS of the kind of administration we're living through now, at one of the most crucial junctures in our country's history, "WTF is wrong with you people?" is a pretty mild rebuke.

So you are going to see the same nastiness. It's that simple

When I try to post (usually in opposition to some off the wall post by an advocate of one side or the other), its like I'm a Holocaust denier posting on a Zionist board! And it doesn't matter which side.

Honestly, I like to think that I will rush to defend *any* of our Dems against some crap that's thrown at them, but these days if you're not with my guy (or gal) then you might as well be the Devil incarnate!

Divide and conquer. 1968 all over again. Pat Buchanan.

This could be the last approximation of an election that takes place in my lifetime. And I've got another 50 years on me, yet. (Best case, knock on wood and all that.)

And we're pissing in each other's streams, thinking that everyone else will still want to drink from it when we're through?

Shit.

This is how QUITE OFTEN Democrats behave, given the set of similar circumstances... or didn't you know that? Do you honestly think the vast majority of DUers would not support the Democratic candidate in the GE? You may BE a fellow Deaniac, as I, but you've a lot to learn traditional shit slinging. It turns my stomach often enough to the point where I start posting disgusting jokes about Ted Kennedy whispering in Obama's ear promising to Drive HRC home if he can be VP!

GET USED TO THE INSANITY. It's an insane situation!!!! Want us to become repressed and commit crimes like the republicans??? Of course you don't.

We're Democrats... Now, take the thermometer out of our asses and stop trying to tuck us in goodnight!

I found out that several candidates do not have any support in my town. I have a couple hours to add to their campaigns. It is not only Obama or Clinton for President, it is a 60 Democratic Senate, and a continued majority in the House. End Reptilian, err, Republican Dominance.

There's been a lot of stupidity here lately.

They wouldn't know a loser if she walked up and punched them between the eyes.

Glad to see a kindred spirit's wise words rise above the morass of crap we've been seeing in here. :yourock:

:hi: K & R :kick:

I feel this way exactly. I admit I got drawn into posting some snarky things....but it is tough. Why can't we all keep the discourse civil?

I WANT TO WIN!!! and win in a way that will really help us in the long haul.

No matter who. Great post.

Seriously,

History might well call this the "Hot Potato" election.

Bush has done a fantastic amount of damage to this nation as well as the world. The only problem is that since most of it is either on a credit card (chiefly CHINA's) or isn't yet in full effect, people are still apathetic slugs about doing what happens. By the time they rise up in significant numbers and actually take a stand (or toss a Molotov cocktail) it'll be too late.

The next president will face:

1. A Great Depression 2.0
2. Cash flow crippled by China demanding re-payment of monies owed. And they are a potential enemy that can fight back.
3. A selfish elite class used to handouts that make the worst media image of Welfare abuse look like a dime to a dollar.
4. An apathetic public about to wake up and start screaming for handouts. Yes, handouts. If they hadn't been lazy slugs, little of this would have happened.
5. A likely oil spike relating to #6.
6. A terrorist attack. A real one this time. Either a) actual enemies made in our "War on Terror" or b) religious extremists very dissatisfied with Bush's lack of actual promises kept and-or-all c) US domestic terrorists likely in combination of #1 and #4. Like a cadre of college engineering students realizing there are no non MCJobs waiting for them.

The Republican party chiefly represents the ruling elite, though they got tentacles in the Democratic party.

What they need to do is:

A. Keep the election out of a Republican party canidate. IMHO, Hillary was the only Democratic candidate, they'd have had David Duke run in full KKK uniform.
B. Keep the election away from Obama and into the wide lap of Hillary. She's a sell-out. Hillary is the one potential president who'll only raise taxes for regular people and who'll make sure no one sees jail for waterboarding or the end of Dubya's tax cuts. She'll just help the status quo hold on for one term, doing as much damage to the Democratic party as is possible.

Then they brace themselves and prepare (9/11 2.0) for-
C. Martial law to prevent a popularly elected 3rd party president and/or secession of several states.

If OBAMA is NOT selected THROW AWAY YOUR VOTE!!!
Some 3rd party, or even a Republican. Make the parasite pigs accountable for their own mess. If Obama wins, we just might have a chance. Otherwise, prepare for the worst.

Don't post or read in GD primaries. It's made my life much simpler. That said, I click on titles that amuse me. If they don't continue to amuse me, I don't read the whole thread. This is what our idiots do during primary time, then will come the months of tearful reconciliation, followed by unity. It's painful to watch, but it's familiar.

nradisic,

I've probably been a voting Democratic longer than you've been on this board, try Hubert Humphrey, 1968. But this go round might be my first Republican vote. If the race is Clinton vs. McCain, the vote is Clinton, if it's Clinton vs. Huckabee (ya gotta be kidding) the vote is Clinton, if the race is Obama vs. Huckabee, it's Obama, but if it's Obama vs. McCain, my vote after 40 years of being a Democrat will go to McCain. Hell fire - I'd even vote for a Clinton/Obama ticket vs McCain/???? Obama is simply not ready. He does great, inspiring speeches, but I've heard every promise in the book and his just don't calculate. Sorry but I have to vote by the person this go round and even voting Republican to keep Obama out of the Oval Office will not keep me from the voting booth.

:rofl:

Maybe you should get a poster of him playing grab-ass with George.

Yep! Sure would. When Obama thinks a recorded vote might stick to his reputation, he votes "present" or just doesn't show up. If he's in the Oval Office, does he fain the flu that day? No thanks.

Man, spell-check is imperfect, huh?

:rofl:

Anyway, fuck your logic, it makes me ill. Adios muchacho!

Yes my citizen type spell check failed me, but so does your wetback commentary.

What is it that brings you "omfg any Dem who wins the nomination is my lord and master!" types out of the woodwork as soon as anyone holds a strong opinion?

And who the fuck wants to break bread with moderates? Moderates, if you haven't noticed, from our own bloody party gave Bush everything he wanted: Homeland Stasi, war, tax breaks, a pass on impeachment, and on and on.

Get a clue, you gutless wonder! You may be prepared to swallow any shit you're told, but thank god others around here aren't your type of Stepford Democrat.

:thumbsdown:

tell me, what it is Obama supporters are "swallowing"?

You may despise those who have been Democratic Party supporters for years or decades. And you may be willing to support Obama based on a negligible to nonexistent record of accomplishment. But before you spit on those who have been party faithful for a long time, let's hear your SPECIFIC, FACTUAL, HISTORIC reason for supporting Obama.

In case that isn't clear, I'm not interested in any promises or rhetoric, what I'm interested in is PROOF of success.

You're absolutely right - Obama gets up and gives tear-jerking rhetoric on how the po'folk in New Orleans will see him rebuild it. No specific plans, nothing but rhetoric about how bad these folks need help. It's true, they do need help and I for one would never deny that, but I want to know how he plans to do it. I did hear Sen. Clinton say she would engage it with a larger program to back up a rebuilding the failing US infrastructure. She gave specifics on how this would be done and how she intended to pay for it. I just can't bring myself to buy into the Obama thing - and as you said - "I ain't swallowing it". If we ended this stupid hunt for WMD, a trillion dollars would go a long way on shoring up the roads, bridges and levies.

but I've seen it before, and the childish bozos throwing their oatmeal from their highchairs may be able to command a serious amount of thread-space, but the adults will be heard in the voting booths (hopefully). And if sadly the adults are yelled down in the primaries, I will support the Dem candidate in full anticipation of a repeat of the spanking handed out in '72 when the Dems nominated a brilliant, sincere idealist with no proven record of accomplishment on the national stage.

I was proud to vote for McGovern, and I'd be proud to vote for Obama, but I'd rather vote for Hillary and see a portion of the Democratic ideal come to fruition.

Blanket endorsements of the "system" of selecting nominees and the product of that system aren't arguments.

People who are pissed off look at the tepid nature of the platforms and gag.

The nominee won't unite Democrats, Independents and a fair number of Republicans. They're united
already - opposed to war, in favor of focusing on environmental catastrophes, concerned about the economy and the latest big rip off.

The candidates barely address these issues. That's why McCain is even in head to head polls. We offer very little by way of the candidates plans.

The front ending of primaries does one thing - gives candidates with lots of money and lots of media the poll position, which means they win primaries where 15% of the party member vote, maybe 20%.

The 2006 victory has officially been squandered. Congress is not rated lower than Bush. How appalling is that. Watch in 2004 - empty shirts with no platforms are not going to be well treated by the public in the same way that the weak performance of the Congressional Democrats hasn't been well treated by the public.

Right now we're screwed.
http://pollingreport.com

Bush:

Approve 30%
Disapprove 60%

Congress:

Approve 22%
Disapprove 74%

They disapprove of us because Congress promised change and the public got nothing. Thus they feel
betrayed. Nice work to all those new members that voted against the party frequently and to those
Democrats in the Senate who consistently vote with huge wealth over the economically challenged citizens
of their states.

Match Ups (these shouldn't even be close; and you know HRC will get the nomination)
http://pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm

McCain 46%
Clinton 46%

McCain 41%
Obama 48%

Senator Clinton, who has served only one full term (6yrs.), and another year campaigning, has managed to author and pass into law, (20) twenty pieces of legislation in her first six years including the following:

1. Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site.
2. Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month.
3. Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Honor.
4. Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall.
5. Name courthouse after James L. Watson.
6. Name post office after Jonn A. O'Shea.
7. Designate Aug. 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
8. Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
9. Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of his death.
10. Congratulate the Syracuse Univ. Orange Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.

These bills can be found on the website of the Library of Congress (www.thomas.loc.gov ).

Now, I would post those of Obama's, but the list is too substantive, so I'll mainly categorize.

During the first (8) eight months of his elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced

233 regarding healthcare reform,
125 on poverty and public assistance,
112 crime fighting bills,
97 economic bills,
60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills,
21 ethics reform bills,
15 gun control,
6 veterans affairs and many others.

His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These included the following:

**the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 (became law),
**The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, (became law),
**The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate,
**The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, (became law),
**The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, (In committee), and many more.

In all since he entered the U.S. Senate, Senator Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1096. An impressive record, for someone who supposedly has no legislative record.


Finally a great quote:

Writing Thursday to Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., a Clinton backer, Spokane lawyer and former congressional nominee Tom Keefe put it succinctly:

"As much as I respect Hillary Clinton's intellect, I think F. Scott Fitzgerald put it best in 'The Great Gatsby' when he wrote, 'They were careless people, Tom and Daisy -- they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made.' The same could be said of Bill and Hillary."

The Clintons have -- literally -- retreated from "the folks" and days of Pike Place Market rallies.

I am seeing too many "brand new posters" lately....I get the distinct feeling that some of the "rebel-rousers" that are trying to incite more battles between the Obama and Clinton supporters are actually trolls....like the guy who says he's been a Democrat since 1868, but plans to vote for Grandpa McCain......another Zell Miller Democrat? You can go join Looserman....

Generally, I stick to film making, since it's one of the few things that really interest me, however the Hillbot VS Obamabot squabble has gotten me pissed. (Also, I am home with pneumonia) PS what a Zen Miller Democrat?

I will vote for the Democratic nominee with one caveat. I will sit out the vote for President if there's skullduggery by the DNC in the nomination. The big issue for me would be if the Michigan and Florida delegates were seated and gave Hillary the nominiation. I would accept if Michigan and Florida were given a 2nd chance and the candidates had the time to run ads and appear before the voters of those states.

if you don't agree with this post :rofl:

K & R....however I noticed there are some knuckleheads that jumped on board this thread with their proverbial "input"

Great post.

Damn.

:kick:
Get it together people, or we'll be at war for ANOTHER eight years when McAncient gets elected by the neocons.

EITHER DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE WHO WINS THE PRIMARY SHOULD HAVE EVERYONE'S SUPPORT, lest we meet the fate that we met in 2000, and again in 2004!

If your candidate loses, grow up, and get over it! BOTH of my candidates already dropped out. We all have to make compromises in life, and the Presidential Election OF OUR LIVES, will have to be one of them!

It's the PRIMARIES and there is bound to be some contention. It's kind of an important step in the process, y'dig? Do you not remember 2003-4???

You know why there is less diviseveness on Freeper boards? All SHEEP look the same, think the same and VOTE the SAME.

Democracy sure ain't pretty, but it beats the living SHIT out of whatever is in second place.

Please just quit all the friggin' WHINING about the divisiveness of the process and put each of the candidates through the WRINGER in order to mke DAMN SURE that there will be NO SURPRISES this time and a DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT in the White House this November.

Unity is a nice idea, but it is unnecessary, at this point in the process. Once there is a nominee I am sure that there will be a great deal more of it around here, but until then,

Don't let the cult leader get the better of the lesbian, and don't let the Hillbots put one over on the fundamentalist homophobes.

Let the CHILDISH GAMES CONTINUE!!!

:hide:

But couldn't you have used a more discreet or sensible "Subject"? It it REALLY necessary for people to post obscenities on the Democratic Underground Home Page????

That's one reason why I don't come around and post as much, and haven't regularly for a few years now. I come around off and on, but people on DU often get too out of hand. Even when they're wrong about something. There are people who don't act all that much different than Bill O'Reilly at times. You just have to take it all with a grain of salt, because DU isn't indicative of the whole party, we're just a sliver of it, and the people who act childish are just a sliver of DU. They're loud, so it seems like they are a larger group than they are, but they aren't.

I actually think it got worse during the primaries four years ago. But then again, I'm not here 24/7 like I was 4 years ago.

We get infiltrations from GOP operatives and newly converted Limbaugh indoctrinated. They don't know how to act in polite society.

Get over it.

Ignore the whole Primaries forum.

Read real news.

Have real fun.

I'm not going to be a party to the train wreck that a democrat as corrupt as GW Bush is getting elected in this country. Obama is inexperienced, corrupt, and basically full of shit every time his lips move.

What I am watching is the dem base of this country driving our party over a cliff by pushing the candidacy of a guy they don't know anything about. Simply because the media told them to vote for him. If I just thought he was a bad dem I'd probably toe the party line and vote for him anyway.

But Obama is going to make our party unelectable in the future, and convince all those people who have long declared that both parties suck, that they have been right all along.

There is nothing wrong with you - you are just looking at a "race based" demographic. I hope people will look further than his tear-jerking rhetoric.