Obama's $4000 student grant to college students. More BS

So he's gonna give them $4000 and they have to promise to work it off in "homeless shelters"?

Yeah right.

They graduate with their degree, enter their professions or other paying jobs, he thinks they're going to go back and work at a homeless shelter instead of paying off the loan? Why would they do that? They won't have money to do it, they'll be fresh out of college.

The program will have to hunt them down and then call in the loan.

Obama succeeds in creating another layer of useless bureaucracy.

Sounds good to the kiddies though.

they do volunteer work while at school, kind of like a part time job.

at 20- 25 hours a week would be great.

Tapped into the whole youth movement, even conservative kids are more prone to volunteer than conservatives, I met a lot when I was down in Biloxi after Katrina. So it sounds good to them, it doesnt affect me but shrewd politically

And it'll pay for 1/2 of one semester of college. What fantastic solutions these are. Charity. No social justice in sight. Not that expect more from Clinton. Just that I expect more from Democrats.

Working-class kids will be working in homeless shelters. I am not saying I agree with readmoreoften but I wanted to clarify what RMO was trying to say.

thought he was trying to say rich folks would use his program for "cush" jobs.

She meant that the rich students get internships that help forward their careers and are sometimes fun. While charity work is intrinsically fulfilling and beneficial to the community, it's of no benefit to ones career unless one is going into a related field.

I worked in Human Services for over 20 years and part of my education was financed by a state program I had to reimburse by working so many hours in the field. For me it was a mutually beneficial arrangement. But other people wouldn't get anything out of the program (particularly since it only financed certain degrees).

to pay for their education, rich kids have the time free to do internships with MTV and the like.

Of course, I see no big difference between that and the way things are now. When I was a poor kid in college the only kind of internships out there for people in my major (journalism) were mostly unpaid, and they involved working in New York City. If you are from another part of the country and have no relatives to stay with in NYC, you can't afford to go there and work a free internship. If you're rich and you live on Long Island or in Westchester and your parents are willing to subsidize your living at home while you commute in to your internship at which you are making no money, you can swing it. This gives you an automatic advantage over the poor kid from Ohio.

I think Obama's plan is the germ of something worth doing, but it needs much more work. The problem is that it demands responsibility to the community only from those too poor to afford to pay for their own education. If you have money, or choose not to go to college, you don't have to do it. This maintains a two-tiered society in which only the poor have to serve the greater community, as the price they pay to rise out of poverty, and the rich can continue not to care, or to throw money at problems, IF they choose to.

Also, as others have pointed out, $4,000 toward a college education today is a drop in the bucket. That might cover your books!

I'd rather see universal community service, for ALL young people. In return for it, give them their choice of options--college discounts, loan forgiveness, tax breaks, funding to start a business, etc. Just some ideas. Make it mandatory, something rich kids cannot buy their way out of. Even if they end up looking like Paris and Nicole living "The Simple Life," too bad. Make them get out of their gated communities and see how the other half lives, so poor people are no longer just a nebulous concept to them, but real people, who didn't all get that way because they're "lazy and don't want to work."

I think these are great voluntary ideas, but I do not like it when the government steps in and forces people into "community service"

Christ, this isn't slave labor. There's a refundable $4000 tax credit. If you want it, you need to do 100 hours of community service. How are people even remotely saying this is a bad idea?

I think it's an excellent idea. Think of what these kids can do to help rebuild our country, our roads, communities, places like New Orleans. It's about time we took ownership of our country, and what better way to get the youth involved! It's giving meaning back to this country, where we work to care for our own, reach out to our neighbors. He has plans of rebuilding americorp/peacecorp, etc. What a wonderful country this could be.

otherwise it wont get the attention it needs.

It's realistic for a start, IMO.

Every proposal can't be a grandiose plan. We have to start somewhere, and keep in mind that many of the things he's proposing are going to be met with resistance. This is one area that the anti-social program crowd is likely to warm up to. In time, we can grow it. But given the state of our economy, and the division - we have a lot to work on.

And many college students aren't "kids." Returning students, who generally don't get help from parents and need the most assistance, tend to have jobs and families and can't do school and work and then volunteer hours on top of all of that, if we plan on sleeping anyhow.

it's 100 hours a year. That's very doable.

4,000/100 = 40 bucks an hour. not bad. I'd do it.

I like the idea of helping with college, but we need to be a bit real about it.

Shoot, if they mad it tax deductible, that would help!

how many hours per day, days per week, weeks per year, etc? would it be worthwhile or should they just get a parttime job?

It would cover community college in IL, and certainly help toward university education.

So the poor kids can have their 30 hour a week job, their parents in total hock, and a government internship. And school. Great.

It would cover all tuition at UNT (where I went) at 15 hours for in state residents. I qualified for the Pell Grant when I was in school, and that covered my tuition. I still worked, because I had rent and to pay for books.

but then I remembered why I had you on ignore in the first place.

See ya! :hi:

Can't give money to college students and expect them to pay it back....

:eyes:

You do your year, or two, or more, and you get the use of the money.

I've seen it in action at the numerous community health centers around my city.

I went to college with many of their alumni.

What's better about Barack's proposal is that you have more choices of service.

Before it was just local community outreach and beautification projects. Now theirs a choice for

foreign and national services.

Heck, I may even take him up on a year of service just to go back to school

to study for a lost dream or two.

But you knew that, didn't you, you special person, you?

on a program seeded by her husband.

Students dont want to take advantage of the program because essentially you end up working for less than minimum wage for a year to get a scholarship.

My daughter volunteered time at a nursing home and at a local school. My son tutored junior high kids in math. If they could have gotten four thousand dollars a year for that (instead of taking out Stafford loans they are now having to repay) they would have devoted even more time.

As for those who pooh pooh the measly $4,000. Jeebus. My husband and I would have killed to have that extra $4,000 tuition reduction a year--even at pricey private universities.

My son was a National Merit Scholar (meaning top 1/2 of one percent in scores on one's state's SAT scores). You know what he got? $2,000. And his financial aid package was summarily reduced by $2,000 upon the university's receiving notification of it.

I think it's a great idea. Not only financially but in tying students to their communities and their country, and developing lifelong habits of volunteerism.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=3671

Expanding Access to the American Dream: Hillary Clinton’s Plan to Make College Affordable for America’s Families

"By providing a $3,500 tuition tax credit—more than 50% of the cost of tuition at the average public institution—and increasing Pell grants, Hillary’s plan will unlock the doors to higher education for millions of young Americans. In addition, Hillary will simplify the student aid process and strengthen incentives for students interested in public service."

"More than 50% of the cost of tuition at the average public institution"? Depends VERY much on where you go. In some, it will more than cover your tuition. At some, it does not even amount to 50%. Including some of the SUNYs in Hillary's own home state, where even the in-staters are paying more like $8K per year.

And of course, it doesn't include any other costs. No room and board, no other fees.

There's also the matter of cash flow to consider. The really poor couldn't give a damn about a tax credit they're going to get later. When the tuition comes due, they need the money in hand NOW. Telling them they will get a tax break later for tuition they have to pay today means jack-nothing when they have a bill in hand and not enough money to cover it. What they need is either grants, scholarships or loans to lessen the amount of money they have to have sitting in the bank to write a check against when the school sends out the bill. So I'd like to see by how much Hillary wants to increase those Pell Grants. They are what's going to make the biggest difference between the poor who can afford college and the poor who cannot.

I suppose there are always cynics in this world...I mean after all - we continue to get let down time and time again right? But - not everything goes wrong and not everything is broken.

I thought the idea is great. I think it could be huge and yes - there are always hurdles...obstacles etc but things that are worth doing aren't easy...and they don't come effortlessly.

Its important for us to say that education is important...and its important for us to put our money where our mouth is...and its great that we wouldn't just "give it away" but people would have to earn it. That's learning responsibility and probably adding an important experience in our youths' lives. Good to see out of the box thinking...and unlike Senator Clinton - I believe he can get the legislation passed by working with Republicans.

if you taught for at least 3 years after receiving your degree, your university fees would be paid for you. That is how I got my BSc degree.

I think it is a wonderful idea.

And Clinton has suggested the same thing.

The problem with using community service as a means of paying for college is that it teaches the wealthy and their children that, to paraphrase Leona Helmsley, "Only the little people need to worry about community service." The rich can still avoid it by being able to afford to pay for college without having to invest any sweat equity in paying the costs.

What this country really needs, and which sadly we really can't expect the government to provide, is a renewed sense on the part of the wealthy as a whole that "of those to whom much has been given, much is expected." Call it noblesse oblige if you will, but I just call it the idea that if you've been pretty well blessed in your life and you have a lot of money, it's a good idea to try to spread it around to those who have less and help them until they can do for themselves, and ALWAYS help those who will never be able to do for themselves for reasons no one can control. We need to get rid of the "greed is good" ethic.

Really, poor kids aren't the ones most in need of developing a sense of obligation and gratitude for the opportunities they receive in life. It's the rich ones who have never wanted for anything who often have a big piece of their social consciousness missing, because they have no clue that everyone isn't like them, or that if there are people unlike them, it isn't always because they deserve less.

Edited to add: I know some will say "Sure the government can provide that. It's called 'increase taxes on the rich.'" But that's not what I mean. I mean, we need to bring back the idea that it's OK for the rich to pay more to keep our society running than the poor do. That it's not some horrible unfair means of punishing the wealthy for their success.

Most Americans are not "rich." And most are not poor. Even many families considered upper-middle-class cannot afford to foot the full bill for tuition these days: $40K per year average at a private institution. Especially since if you are even middle-class at all you rarely qualify for much financial aid. (I've filled out a million FAFSA and Profile forms, so I know.) This would represent a 10% discount--something not to pooh-pooh. Or 50% at a state institution. Most non-poor kids are coming out of college with $15,000-$25,000 of loans to repay (this isn't counting their parents' contribution). $4K a year could save them this debt after graduation.

As for 'rich' kids not volunteering, I hate to bring up my kids as an example again, but they're all I know. My daughter went to an urban public high-school and did an International Baccalaureate degree there: this program requires 150 hours of public service in order to attain the degree (in addition to all the academic requirements). As a result, she continued to volunteer even after she graduated H.S. My son had volunteer requirements for religious school, as well as in his public high school: he spent time at a center for mentally disabled adults and cleaning out food lockers at the food shelter. In college he tutored. We are not poor (nor are we rich)--but I found the young people of my kids' generation to be more volunteer oriented than we were at that age.

he'll have them working at the local dump recycling or mucking ....."the party of ideas"


what a charlatan

My degree certainly did not result in working in the local dump recycling - I have been blessed with a very interesting work life as a result - doing extremely innovative things.

WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN??!!!??!?

To think that only one person can wear a cowboy hat.
Hillary supporters, please give her a cowboy hat to wear, and see if she refuses.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=3671


Create a New $3,500 College Tax Credit Hillary is proposing to more than double the HOPE tax credit, raising the maximum amount of benefits that students and their families can receive from $1,650 to $3,500. This new credit will cover more than 50% of the typical cost of public colleges and universities and more than the full cost of tuition for community colleges. Taxpayers will be able to claim 100% of the first $1,000 of college expenses and 50% of the next $5,000 under this new credit. This new credit will also be partially refundable in order to increase its value to low-income individuals. It will phase out in a manner similar to the current HOPE credit and will also be "advanceable" to allow families to receive the tax credit when their tuition bills are due instead of 16 months later.

Make College Affordable for Those Who Serve in AmeriCorps. When President Bill Clinton created AmeriCorps in 1993, the Education Award covered 47% of the total cost of a four-year public school. Today – 13 years later – the amount of the education award has stayed the same while tuition and fees have grown dramatically. Hillary will double the education award – now called the Segal Education Award – to $10,000 to get it back on pace to covering a meaningful portion of the cost of going to college for people who devote a year or two of full-time public service to our country.