Bill and Hillary Clinton

For all of you who have been gloating and calling BOTH of the Clintons names that would make even a rightwinger blush...enjoy yourselves for now.

But after you're done with your gloating and name-calling....

Let me know when your candidate takes 15 years of abuse at the hands of the Right-Wing hate machine and comes out of it as handily as the Clintons have, stronger than when they first went in.

Let me know when your candidate suffers blistering non-stop attacks day after day, year after year from Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, & Michael Savage....and not only survives it, but brushes them away like little gnats.

Let me know when your candidate has a mile-long list of accomplishments like Bill Clinton has after two successful terms as President.

Let me know when your candidate gets raked over the coals by the other side and still goes on to accomplish so many amazing things under such trying circumstances.

Let me know when your candidate has walked in EITHER of the Clinton's' shoes. If your candidate survives it HALF as well as the Clintons have, then my hat will be off to YOUR candidate as it is right now for Bill and Hillary Clinton.

Oh, and for any of you repulsive Republican dipshits who have infiltrated this place, let me know when any one of your candidates, dead or alive for the last 50 years, can ever amount to more than a pimple on Bill Clinton's ass.

The Clintons are not perfect. Nobody is, but they are one of the most amazing pairs of Democrats ever to excite people from all around the globe, and I will always be grateful to have been able to experience some of that excitement in my own lifetime.

How soon some of you forget.

:thumbsup:

Hillary is not Bill. She may have the same policies, but she doesn't have the same skills as a campaigner. I'm not even sure that Bill is still Bill. Seems to have lost some of his magic this time around.

That, plus she would drive the Independent vote away from our party and into McCain's camp, and we really do need the Independent vote, unless somehow tons and tons more people join the electorate as Dems. And if she is the nominee, she would get out the Republican vote; they are so against the Clintons that they'd vote for a Republican candidate just to keep her out. Do we need this? Especially when we have another candidate whose policies and abilities are very similar to Hillary's but who does not have the baggage she has?

Hillary is not Bill. She is far more intelligent, more dynamic, more resourceful, and she has accomplished far more in her life than Bill.

It doesn't matter how you feel personally about her, but as long as you keep beating that right wing drug of haters for Hillary, the right wing can reserve its strength for the future attacks on Obama. We're doing all their dirty work for them, as they quietly collect their data and save their ammunition for Obama.

Even Obama is on the campaign trail, reminding everyone that 47% of the country "doesn't like Hillary." That's a great uplifting theme, isn't it, "Vote for me because you don't like her."

It's just fact. She's a very polarizing candidate.

I'm not a hater, I am being practical. Obama is more electable. Me writing it or not doesn't change anything. The primary season is when we decide who our standard-bearer will be. If we can't discuss the pros and cons about this or that candidate, how do we choose the best one? This isn't a time for blind loyalty. Once we have our nominee, that will be the time for people to shut up and support him/her.

The right wing has an unlimited supply of energy for attacking our candidates. I'm just making the case that we need to have one who has the least negatives going in, so that we have more of a head start. Obama's message is far more than, "I'm not Hillary". He's pointing out a fact, that's all.

She has accomplished far more in her life than Bill? How do you figure?

Vote for Kerry, he's more electable, oh my God, don't screw up the election by supporting Dean, Kerry is electable, oh my God!!!

Jeez. I think the term "electable" is the kiss of death. Hillary's biography is on the Internet. It makes for fascinating reading, even if you (obviously) have swallowed the belief that she's polarizing. It's amazing to me how Democrats are so willing to fall in line with right wing talking points instead of fighting back against them, going out there and telling them they are just so flat wrong about Hillary and explaining why.

I can spend 5 minutes with a Repub who is against Hillary because of preconceived notions, and by the time I'm done, they're nodding their head in agreement that they've been led around by the nose, too, duped by the echo chamber of the media.

Anyway, I don't have to like a candidate to vote for her or him, I just need to believe they'll do a competent job. You don't see hatred against Hillary in Congress. She knows how to work with them. What does that tell you?

What real advantage does she have over Obama?

I think she would be competent, sure. I believe he would be transformational. I don't know whether people in Congress like Hillary or hate her, but I know both of them have worked well with their colleagues. Obama has worked across the aisle too.

Both have similar policies and plans. Both are bright and know their stuff. I think Obama has a superior ability to inspire and lead. In addition, his ideas about getting away from lobbyist influence and lack of transparency in government are unique to his platform. That's why he should be our nominee.

Her association with them goes back many, many years. Obama is being groomed by a few powerful people. Do not underestimate the level of resentment by those who have put in far more years to see someone beat a screwball like Alan Keyes to get into the Senate, trying to claim the highest office in the land by dint of charm.

Hillary is an excellent role model for what women can attain. One little anecdote: when she was 12, she wrote NASA asking what she needed to do to become an astronaut. They wrote back and told her that women cannot be astronauts. Think about how much has changed since then.

This is a woman who perseveres against all odds. She hasn't gotten where she is because of a great speaking style and charming manner. All that glitters is not gold. And don't say it's Bill that's gotten her where she is. She is the one who got Bill where he is, by doing all the hard lifting while he charmed people with his speaking style and personality.

I'm off to work. Try to see Hillary through your own eyes and don't let the right wing dictate your thinking. If you do, the terrorists have won. ;)

and I don't think she is the right choice.....e.g how many states has she won
that are red states? Her policies similar, I personally do not see any, I don't
buy that meme, secondly, all they have done is use surrogates to attack Obama, while
saying they like him, why should I vote for more of the same.

Hillary supporters where here attacking Edwards supporters and now wants Edwards
to endorse her, knowing fully they do not share the same policies. Hillary is for
lobbyist and Edwards is not.

If you keep ignoring that then you're part of the blind loyalty.

a competent job?

:shrug:

Her major was Political Science and she became the first student in Wellesley College history to deliver their commencement address. Hillary is well qualified for the job she is seeking.

should be working for your candidate. Get busy and start phonebanking or donating.

I never listen to those guys. I'm writing about what I have seen for myself. And I am donating, repeatedly.

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Reminds me of the dumb jock running against the smart girl for Junior class president.

It is 2008 but still "Girls can either be liked or they can lead but they can't do both".


In order to win elective office females must be "liked" therefore we can't have one, no matter how much of a leader she is.

The first woman elected president will be a fascist sponsored by the MSM and the Republican party. And, the first minority will be a fascist sponsored by the MSM and the Republican party. They probably have a prototype in development that is both female and minority.

She's not liked because she is a fake, cold, calculating person. People see through her facade.

:hi:

K&R!

:kick:

She doesn't get the nomination because she somehow deserves it for the years of abuse her family has suffered from the GOP. She doesn't get the nomination by default because she's married to Bill Clinton and she can use his presidency as her experience.

My candidate has never had to endure the things of which you speak - so what? This is not a contest on who has been attacked the most.

My post is more in disbelief and shock at the venom that gets hurled toward the Clintons by so many people who could be just a litte more empathetic of what they've contributed to this country, esepcially Bill....but also Hillary, too.

No, I am not saying this qualifies her to be President. In fact, it has little to do with whether she gets the nod and everything to do with how so many people on DU find it vogue to spit on them without ever expressing a bit of appreciation for what they've done and what they've gone through at the hands of the Right Wing.

this election is making me so angry as I see blacks who decide to hate the Clinton's despite the positive things they have done for the people of this country... and I had a 10 year old black female tell me she thought Ms. C. was evil... we have gone too far as a party to allow this... and I believe Obama has allowed it! I cannot support him for this reason!

It's your choice to not support Obama. It's mine to support him.

Someone says something derogatory about Hillary and then a Hillary supporter feels obligated to return in kind; and so on and so on. It's pointless and all it succeeds in doing is making the supporters look bad.

Not yet, anyway.

In four years we'll see how Obama holds up to RW spin. And then you'll be telling us we owe him... for taking it and still getting up to go to work everyday.

I hope, if he wins this primary race... he will choose someone with experience to help him weather it.

Hillary/Barack or Barack/Hillary 2008!

Talk about "old school politicos". That pair of shoes walks both sides of the street.

Naive much?

I think we can do better than that.

How true!

and the rest of us don't hate the Clintons.

I won't be there to hold any hands when the crucifixion starts.

I will be there to rub salt in the fucking wound.

The bases who believe Whitewater was all about 'getting' the Clintons, when it was really a nonstory but a cover - a COVER used by Bushies to get into Rose Law Firm and SCRUB EVERY FILE for Jackson Stephens and Poppy Bush's BCCI dealings.

Man - some of you are INCREDIBLY NAIVE about what was really happening at Rose Law Firm and WHY it needed scrubbing.

The GOP base didn't know what was going on as they piled on and blew it all out of proportion. Neither did the Dems who defended without stepping back and realizing exactly what was going on in Arkansas.

Theater - political theater.

A population of dupes.

What was going on WHILE all that theater was being performed, snake? a MASSIVE coverup of all BushInc crimes of office as Bill swept all the outstanding matters under the oval office rug.



http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

And Clintons screwed over more than a few Dems who worked hard to uncover those crimes, didn't they? Those Dems became undermined and vilified and Clintons piled on and helped.


http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354


http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

.

All in all it is a good lesson in how not to defeat your enemy by adopting their tactics.

and the one to follow...and I did NOT Like Ike!

but I think you are correct that the Clintons are taking an inordinate amount of flak from some Democrats here on this board and elsewhere. They were not perfect, and BLM has always had good points about the coverups of the Reagan/Bush41 scandals, but I don't think they ever consciously set out to "work us over" even if some things didn't work out exactly as planned. I may be naive, but I think their intentions have always been good.

I'd like to see everybody here agree (fat chance) that ALL of our candidates were/are good solid Democrats, any one of whom would be 100 times more preferable than McCain, Huckabee or any of the others from the Dark Side.

and not wealthy millionaires, no sirreee!!!!

And if you haven't been paying attention, I'm no big supporter of Hillary OR Obama. I just think people need to remember that, flawed as they are, Bill and Hillary aren't the enemy, and, if nothing else, if Hillary wins, my guess is she'll offer much more acceptable justice department/SC noms than if McCain does, which is one of my main concerns. We need to rein in the ripping on our own candidates a little bit and look at the bigger picture. The Republicans eat this up.

And, for what it's worth, I don't really think there's that much difference between Sen. Obama and Sen. Clinton on the issues. I believe voters are making their decision based on style and other superficial qualities, which is fine, but we kid ourselves if we think that Obama would preside over a radically different administration than Hillary. I just don't see it happening.

them in ways they could never control. And that happens when you are more arrogant than ethical.

Kerry would have been president long ago after he went digging into what was going on, except he stayed focused on wrongdoing and had no intention of protecting the corrupt players.

Had HE been the one to side with secrecy and privilege of closed government, his path would have been greased, too.

It must be extremely difficult, when faced with all the complexities involved in wielding power in this corrupt world, to remain true to one's core values. Bill and Hillary could have done better, for sure. If Hillary becomes president, I would hope she learned some things in her White House years that would keep her more on track. I really don't know much about Obama's character ... I don't see that he's been tested to near the degree that Hillary and Bill have ... but I guess we can all "hope" if he's the nominee and eventual president.

What then ObamaNation??

You've painted yourself in a corner ObamaNation.

ed: K&R

I needed this tonight.:dem: