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All States Count - They just don't count the same.

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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 06:43 PM
Original message
All States Count - They just don't count the same.
It has gotten kind of loony at DU with all the rattling off of numbers of primaries and/or caucuses won, as if having the longest list of victories proves something somehow definitive.

In the 2000 Presidential Election, Al Gore won the popular vote but only 20 States plus the District of Columbia. Had Gore won 21 States and held George W. Bush to winning 29, Al Gore would have become President. In 2004 John Kerry won just 19 States plus the District of Columbia. Had John Kerry held George W. Bush to winning only 30 States, John Kerry would be President today.

If Hillary Clinton closes by winning Texas, Ohio, and Pennsylvania, she most likely will become the Democratic nominee.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. IMO the election process needs to be changed.
get rid of the electoral college and go with the popular vote along with paper ballots.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I agree. I know that there actually are some sound arguments for the electoral college
But they do not hold their own against the more powerful arguments against it.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Can I get you on board with this idea for the primary?
Edited on Mon Feb-11-08 06:52 PM by AX10
The primary should be a one day national election where the nominee must get a majority of the vote. Should no candidate get the majority, the top two will move on to a run-off election a few weeks later.

So:

A)36%
B)32%
C)20%
D)10%
E)2%

Candidates "A" and "B" will move on to the run-off. One will win the nomination with the MAJORITY of the popular vote and then the issue is settled.

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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. I don't think so
I am more likely to favor rotating regional primaries, so that it isn't always the same states going first. I am afraid that starting and ending on the same day will lock us in to only nominating establishment candidates or billionairs in the future.
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calico1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. If you are going to have a one day national primary
where every state participates on the same day, then why have primaries at all?

Besides having a national primary would favor candidates with the most money. Candidates that don't have a lot of money would be shut out. With the primaries spread out a candidate that doesn't have a lot of money can all of a sudden get a flow of donations. This is what happened with Huckabee. He had a shoestring budget compared to the others but his win in Iowa got him a lot of donations and he was able to stay competitive.

I prefer primaries every few weeks with the the order of the states rotated so that Iowa and NH don't have so much influence all the time. I don't think that is fair.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. This is pretty much my position also. n/t
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sandyj999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Get rid of all this nonsense
And all the delegates and super delegates and let US choose. I am so tired of all the maneuvering and crap that I wonder if it's worth it to even vote.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. True.
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Freetospeak Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. Every VOTE counts! All these people came out and voted! Obama deserves credit!
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Of course he does
But winning a State with 2 million residents isn't the same as winning a state with 20 million residents.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. not so. not if she doesn't win those states by more than
10 pts. If there's only a 10 pt or less difference, Obama's take of the delegates won't be small enough to put her in the pledged delegate lead. She needs to win those states big. And comparing the general election to the primaries, doesn't work.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. I haven't crunched the numbers
I don't have the staff that Associated Press has, but regardless, I think you are incorrect. If Clinton wins those three big states it will give HER the final momentum heading into the Convention. And it will probably also mean that she did well in her final debates with Obama. Texas not really, but both Ohio and Pennsylvania are critical swing states for Democrats. Kerry beat back a real effort from Bush to steal PA in 2004 and Kerry's wife had strong roots there then. We all know about Ohio. Winning those States will carry a very big impact.

And all three states are diverse with big populations. Texas will be an important final indicator of how the latino vote will break, which is even more important outside of Texas to Democrats in 08. Both PA and OH are inter-racial states with large urban areas, significant suburbs, and large rural areas also. If Obama gets swept in all three of those, Super Delegates will have a pretty good reason to consider backing his opponent even if Obama barely edged out Clinton in pledged delegates.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
8. and all people's vote count, except for the Black vote in Florida.....
and wherever else it might be.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. did you forget about Palm Beach in 2000?
all those jewish voters who pushed the wrong chad and the votes went for buchanan. even buchanan said "those votes were not meant for me".
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Did I suggest otherwise? n/t
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lanesharon Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. NOT Florida
Passage of Florida legislative bill HB 537 has caused 1,684,390 US voters to become disenfranchised. Unless the RNC & DNC policies are changed, this could happen to you some day; regardless of your state or party affiliation. The contents of this website will discuss this bill, what happened; and what you can do to try to reverse this situation and prevent it from recurring. Please help us reinstate the voting rights of Florida Democrats. How you can help:

Visit the website
http://florida-delegates.com

Read the Position Summary Section
http://florida-delegates.com/pages/our-position.php

Visit the What To Do Page and follow our action suggestions
http://florida-delegates.com/pages/your-help/what-to-do.php

Pass this information on to others.

If you have already signed a petition that combines the Michigan and Florida reinstatement effort, please sign this petition also. There are different arguments for each state and I believe they need to be argued independently.

Please keep these facts in mind as you read the contents of this website:
* The Florida Democratic primary election ballot had all democratic candidates listed.
* Florida Dems have been disenfranchised, through no fault of their own
* HB537 was written by a Florida Republican to change Florida's primary date.
* A state legislature has interfered with it's constituents National voting rights.
* The Florida Democratic Party did NOT change this date, the legislature did.
* The Florida legislature has an overwhelming Republican majority.
* The House of Representatives in Florida have 41 Democrats; 71 Republicans.
* The Senate in Florida have 14 Democrats; 26 Republicans
* The state of Florida has a Republican Governor.
* The citizens of the state of Florida did NOT vote on this date change.
* HB537 was passed in May 2007 & legislatively changed the Florida primary date.
* This date was, and still is, unalterable by the Florida Democrats.
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