3 locked threads on the first 10 pages of General Discussion: Campaign 2000

Wow! What a difference a few primaries and caucus's can make around here.

Don

Sorry, NNN0LHI. I think I had a time warp there for a sec. I'm OK now.

:)

Ok...you've been a bad bad boy. BENT OAFER! :spank:

...put a damn powerful curse on your ass to boot. And wait until I see Raven on here and tell her what you said to me. Then you will be in for some real trouble. Have any questions? Oops. Thats right, I put you on ignore. Wonder how that ignore function works? Never used it before.

Don

}(

Welcome to DU, pollack!

I'm going to make an intuitive leap based on your not knowing that and assume you're relatively new to 'net discussion group culture? If I'm wrong I apologize, but anyway, you'll see a lot of those acronyms around here and elsewhere. This is a good resource for when one stumps you: http://www.gaarde.org/acronyms/

Also, more specific to DU, there's BFEE (Bush Family Evil Empire), BBV (Black Box Voting), ABB (Anyone But Bush) and others I'm sure I'm forgetting.

Did not know there was a lexicon. Hilarious.

and another source more closely related to the DU is the DU "unofficial" Slang Dictionary (Glossary):

http://DUG.SeattleActivist.org/



Dave (AmyStrange.com) Ayotte
Please, regularly check the One Missing Person (is one person too many) searchable website for the latest (and archived) missing person news stories:

http://NEWS.OneMissingPerson.org/




Serious Serial Killer discussion:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SK-Cafe/



For the best "unofficial" DU Slang Dictionary in the world:
http://DUG.SeattleActivist.org/

really needs to learn the <br> HTML tag. It is a pain to read through those things. Just a thought.

So much for thinking!:think:

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

plus no one is discussing the ISSUES any more, just Kerry campaign tactics!!

have left DU altogether, turning it into the echo chamber so many wanted.

yee ha.

I'm starting to question my own sanity for continuing on. I'm not feeling very productive here anymore, (why the heck am I even on a board discussing McCain?)
yikes, I may need professional help

NO ONE TALKING ABOUT ISSUES. The Dem Party has major issues in front of it. Did Dean's grass roots campaign against the war, Edwards' campaign against NAFTA and for the poor, Gephart's health care initiative make NO impression on the Democratic Party?

Not to say Kucinich's campaign and Sharpton's campaign....

(actually, I'm sure you have!)

Taken literally, what does does ABB mean? It doesn't imply a single policy, vision, or issue. It strikes me as defeatist and reflecting of a state of powerlessness. I'd rather tell you what I think is positive about a candidate. In Kerry's case, I can tell you he has a decent environmental record. That alone is a pretty good reason for me to consider him an improvement. But the repetition of ABB is debilitating IMO.

reminds me of when Wavey Gravey (I think it was him) was running "Nobody for president"

Very few people vote on issues, at least as politically minded people are accustomed to use the word. They vote for a candidate they identify with; a candidate they think would do about what they would do if they were in office; a candidate they feel has a commanding presence and stature; a candidate they think would win a fight with the opponent. Policy position statements have very little to do with it.

The idea that defeat of the enemy is not a vision is strange to me, Sir. The hope and resolve to defeat the enemy is the most inspiring vision there is to a fight; most every fight comes down to sustaining that vision, and being sustained solely by that vision, by the time the last blows are struck. To be animated by that vision is the furthest one can be from either defeatism or powerlessness.

"In politics and war, only what is simple can succeed."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

most of the people I know don't see it that way.
:shrug:

How most of the people you do not know see it....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

but, if that were the case, then NO ONE would vote in November - or at least, I should say only about 2 percent of the population would vote.
I don't think Kerry or Bush comes anywhere close to identifying with me!
:)

I do vote on issues. Issues are important. The person is important, but issues are what it is all about.

So I am most certainly not politically savvy then.

I am willing to give in on issues, but I will still vote on them.
Does the party not have issues anymore? I was afraid of that.

You are politically involved, and so vote on issues. Most people are not politically involved, and do not vote on issues. To be "savvy" politically is to have some grasp of how to get people who are not politically involved to cast their votes in the direction you desire. To do this, you must have some awareness of how people somewhat un-like yourself work and respond.

"Democracy is a form of government based on the proposition the people know what they want, and ought to get it, good and hard."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

Wouldn't that be better than voting to please?

But bear in mind two things.

First, what a dozen or more years of formal education, and decades of life, have not accomplished, you are unlikely to achieve in the space of eight months between now and November.

Second, most people simply are not too interested in politics. It is always hard for people consumed by passion for a thing to appreciate that what is so engrossing and vital to them is a matter of utter indifference to a great number of their fellow creatures, but such is generally the case, even so. Such differences of taste are not easily overcome, and the kind of circumstances that do force political matters on the notice of ordinarily disinterested folks are generally accounted among the most unpleasant, if interesting from a distance, periods of human history.

The thing must be played as it lays, Ma'am: the indifference of most people must be factored into any operation aimed at moving them, just as a commander must take the terrain on which battle must be fought as it is found, and spend little time wishing there was a hill to cover the left flank, and marsh to screen the center, if such features are not actually there, however desireable it might be for such to be present.

"If wishes were horses beggars would ride."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!?

Telling the truth is not that hard. Most people are quite eager to hear the truth. Many are just not aware they are not getting the truth. If someone points it out, a lot are willing to listen.

They listen, nod, and moments later are discussing sports scores, or whatever it is....

You are not going to succeed in altering the normal character of humankind, however desireable that might be.

Once the Sage wrote: "At birth a man is soft and supple; at death he is stiff and hard. Therefore, it is the rigid and unmoving who is the disciple of death, and the flexible and yielding who is the disciple of life."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

Unfortunate.

Lao Tzu's wisdom used to justify ignorance. :crazy:

The essence of the Tao is to accept what is and adjust oneself to it, rather than to seek and bend it to a shape of your own desire. If you cannot accept what people are, and work with that, but must shape them to some image you imagine that they ought to be, or if you think you may reform others without reforming yourself, Sir, you have no comprehension of the Sage.

Once the Sage wrote: "Do you think you can take over the universe and improve it? I do not believe it can be done."

with me for 36 years, thank you very much. Condescending remarks aside, you wouldn't be attempting to reshape my perceptions in your image, would you now?

But your comment leaves room for question whether you have opened it, or dipped very deeply into it, if you did so. It would be tedious to excerpt the many points where educating people is explicitly spoken against as policy, on both social and personal levels, in the Tao Te Ching. That was not, of course, the reason the statement excepted seemed apt to me, but rather because it is one that illustrates best the general attitude of working within the form of the world to achieve one's ends that is at the heart of the school, as the excerpt from the Analects that is my habitual signature line is the one which illustrates best the core of Confucian teachings.

The classic Chinese schools were all, fundamentally, concerned neither with spiritual development or the nature of Being, as are religions and Occidental philosophy, but with the practice of governance, and governance in particular of an agrarian society under absolutist rule, that was already larger in scale than the technical means available could easily control. The Taoists presented a sort of minimalist model, polar opposites to the school of the "Legalists", with the Confucians occupying a middle ground. The fundamental nature of humans and of governance having changed little in the millenia since the foundation of these schools of thought, they retain a relevance sufficient to make their study a rewarding one.

Once the Sage wrote: "When the country is ruled with a light hand, the people are simple. When the country is ruled with severity, the people are cunning."

Most such departures stem from the place not being the echo chamber those who decamped desired....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

ma'am - I think the current level of discourse is exactly what was wanted here. Many intelligent, thoughtful posters seem to have disappeared. Many dissenting opinions have been silenced. The echo chamber is right here, right now, ma'am.

Those who have departed, whom you call intelligent and thoughtful, though others might use different words in description in some cases, wished for a situation where their view was not effectively challenged, and they would have a free hand to impugn those who disagreed with them. The circumstance having come to fall rather short of that desire, the thing seemed not so fun and self-affirming anymore....

"Kill one, warn one hundred."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

Madam.

A good many wished for a situation where there view was not effectively challenged - and now they have it! Sanitized for your protection.

Let the self affirming begin!!

Is that the views being echoed are not your own.

As a point of curiousity, do you consider addressing a male as woman to be an insult? That would seem a rather retrograde attitude to me, unsuited to a person of progressive views....

"It is a mistake to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

do you consider when labeling individuals sir or madam based on their username that you might be wrong? maxanne might well be a man. In fact, that kind of labeling seems unsuited to a person of progressive view.

One might also expect persons of a progressive slant to be open to opposing views. Censorship would certainly not be considered a progressive trait.

To check your personal profile, from which, by your own statement, unless perhaps someone filled in the blanks for you, the mode of address was determined. If you are a male who filled in female there, for some reason or other, that would be a wholly seperate question....

It remains a matter of both amazement and amusement that so many persons feel that a person who disagrees with them, and does so to good effect, is engaged in censorship. It is apparently the expectation of such a person to speak, and meet with nothing but agreement, or, perhaps, a smattering of innefective opposition, just enough to give a thrilling sense of triumph over kittens.

As you have not answered it, allow me to repeat the question, which still seems an apt one to me: do you, Ma'am, feel that addressing a male as a woman is a form of insult?

"Kill one, warn one hundred."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

and I don't know if you're a male. I don't make such assumptions here, and clearly, you should eschew them as well. My profile may be dishonest, and frankly I can't be bothered to look at yours - nor would I take it as gospel.

It amuses me greatly that so many who would silence others find themselves to be quite morally superior.

Do you feel that addressing persons whose gender is unknown to you as Sir or Ma'am to be particularly witty and droll?

If you are a male claiming female identity, would the proper and correct mode of address not remain the same? It is not unheard of for people to do that of course; it is common in venues dedicated to somewhat different passions than this, after all.

Again, you seem to feel that disagreement with you is an attempt to silence you, which is simply twaddle. You disagree with me, as do many people, and where have you ever seen me complain that there is some widespread attempt to silence me? You must not have too much confidence either in your beliefs, or in your ability to express and support them, if you feel that any expression of opposition consitutes an attempt to silence you: otherwise, you would simply engage, in confident expectation of emerging the victor.

And further, since you have not yet answered the simple question, and it does rather pique my curiousity: do you, Ma'am, consider it an insult to address a male as a woman?

"Kill one, warn one hundred."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

Or "old chum," perhaps (like Batman to Robin).


In any case, as far as I am concerned, the use of forms like "Sir" and Ma'am" is both offensive and condescending.

That is an odd signature for a person with the appellation of "Magistrate".

Are you arguing death sentences for parking violators, Sahib?

This rather chilling motto was carved on the pyramids--thanks for clarifying the source.

May I state again that thius is a very WEIRD choice?

"Sha ji xia hou"

(with slight liberties on the emphasis of the translation)

Choke the chicken to spank the monkey(s).

a bit on the rightwing side of things though.

It could either be interpreted to be a adamant support for the use of the death penalty as a methodology to curb recidivism, an assassination threat against the current administration, or in parablic form, as a reference of the DLC "killing" Mr. Dean, so that the "terrorizing gangs" of his followers would come back into the "DLC" line.

One cannot tell from the non-contextual usage here.

It could mean a lot of things....

Told there had been a fire in his stables upon returning from court, the Master asked: "Was anyone hurt?" He did not ask about the horses.

I can't take it seriously, old buddy old chum.

"Kill one, warn one hundred."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASRARDS!"

I presume that any rightist implications are not what you intended.

The "evil" leader is killed (the actual Chinese word is "kill") so that his gang is disrupted/"put in line".


"Kill one, warn one hundred."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASRARDS!"


In the context you just gave, you are advocating assassinating George Bush.

This is a serious matter.

Complain to the Administrators; contact the Secret Service: amuse yourself to the fullest extent possible....

Your illustration of a pattern of hysteria and wretched hyperbole is greatly appreciated....

"No man heir to his weight in gold will die in the market-place."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!?

"Illustration of a pattern of hysteria" is that like a sewing diagram?

Well, I suppose it is "wretched hyperbole" because I wasn't "greatly exaggerating" your comment. Logically, it can correctly be said that any straighforward statement is a "wretched hyperbole".

The tail in mouth as the snake rolls down the road quality of your comments must be apparent even to you....

"My god, man, slap yourself and think!"

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

"Good government does not require a lot of talk. The only thing to worry about is whether one has the power to execute one's policies."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

to the issue at hand.

The issue is pretty simple. I don't want to be called Ma'am. Got it?

It is relevant to mine, and remains so.

You do not answer it because to do so honestly would bare that it was your intention to deliver personal insult, and bare as well your inability to judge what might strike me as insult, coming from you.

"Some have an instinct for the jugular, some for the cappillary."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

So why, SIR, do you insist on addressing her in this matter?

This is more than impolite....it is abusive and insulting.

She would not much like being called "the lady" either; the terms are of the same nature and heritage....

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing will so enrage them."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

nt.

You do not present yourself as anything like that tractable a sort of fellow....

"For the Snark was a Boojum, you see."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

It is a matter of common courtesy.

"I won't say I'll try, Lees, but...I'll try to try."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

I would have done so in a manner that left no room for doubt.

I repeat - I do not want to be called Ma'am by you. In fact, I insist that you desist, immediately.

There was no doubt of your intent, only question concerning your judgement of what would gain the effect you desired....

"Women who want all the options available to men would do well to consider the option of being the strong, silent type."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

of telling me to shut up. You know just how far to push the envelope, don't you?

I repeat - I find your form of address offensive - and I ask that you stop calling me Ma'am. How many times must I ask? Why would someone with good manners ignore my repeated requests?

Is with a Ms. Fran Liebowitz, a most humorous lady, and not with me, in regard to any conclusions you may have drawn from the tag....

You have provided me most amusing breaks from wrangling wild toddlers today, for which you have my thanks; your efforts are not unappreciated.

"The most perfect expression of scorn is silence."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

is with your lack of manners. I have repeatedly asked you to stop addressing me as ma'am. You are rudely ignoring my requests.

Certainly one who goes to such great pains to provide a facade of politeness might be expected to display the real thing when called upon to do so.

As you have complained of everything from my views to my vocabulary and grammar, it is hardly any surprise my manners suit you no better. Chalk it up as one more thing in this big world that you cannot alter, and that is unconcerned by your reproof.

"Who has no enemies has no friends."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

Many who have left are elsewhere on the net and there is plenty of lively discussion and diversity of views. But how were you to know? You're not a participant. Telling that you would speak on the matter, knowing nothing about it.

In fact, contrary to your claims, DU is far more lock-step than where the dearly departed now reside.

:toast:

Julie

Are still posting, alive, and well.

The loss of one may be another's gain.

Was, in its early stages, dominated by persons supporting candidates who have been defeated at the polls, and persons arguing for third party efforts or other forms of protest vote. It was therefore then an enjoyable place for persons with those views.

Here, as interest in the campaign has spread more widely among people, there has been an influx of people who support the candidates who drew better at the polls, but were not so popular among those who formerly set the tone, and there have also been many people who have changed their views and come to support another candidate, or another approach to electoral politics. The tone of commentary is therefore different, and people who formerly were not much challenged, now find they frequently are, and challenged effectively, and find also that the means of attack they were accustomed to use against those who disagreed with them meet little support and gain little footing.

No one imagines people who have departed here depart the earth, or cease expressing themselves, and it is only to be expected they would find, or create, places more congenial to themselves.

"Can't nobody here play this game?"

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

game, sir.

B-)

Hope it is not too lonely for a sensible fellow down there....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

I'd say has more to do with the end of sock puppets' worthless lives here than the real posters.

Though if it pleases you to continue to try to demonize those sincere posters as those who set the tone at that time you are free to do so. In reality it was those who had joined and within a month had well over 1000 posts. A quick search always revealed nothing but attacks. It was not the long-timers or thoughtful contributors who set the tone during those most wretched days.

Think and write whatever you like though, whatever gets you through the night and all that.

:toast:

Julie

And on the Forum itself for well over two years, you will find it difficult to get me to subsitute your perceptions for mine.

"They believed nothing they could not prove, and could prove whatever they believed."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

Tell me, what do you think of this quote?

I can't wait to watch people like you get turned to ash by what is coming at you in the general election. You're pathetic, unable to recognize good press and interesting allies when you see them, and you are going to get laid waste. Win or lose, you are in for a rough road, and I'm going to laugh my ass off watching you. Pathetic. Totally pathetic.

Is this the sort of high-brow commentary you recall? Here's a clue for ya, this wasn't written by any who have left but by one who is considered one of the "DU greats".

If this is "great" I'm the queen of America. Ugh!

But hey, I realize to some "cesspool" is appealing. Enjoy! :toast:

Julie

There are thousands of comments put up in Democratic Underground every day. Many of them are heated, and that on all sides of every question that is long discussed. Many, too, take them more deeply to heart than is wise....

"Who has no enemies has no friends."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

of psychological problems harbored here at DU.

I find those with the most contrived personas to be the most likely disturbed among us, wouldn't you agree?

Julie

"Peoples' actions are best understood by what they believe to be so, not by what actually is so."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

Than you, even while most of us have long ago figured out what petty little babies they are.

They're everywhere. Best to just watch them shcase their tails and wallow in their imagined greatness. Anything else is wasted time.

:toast:

Julie

nt.

While I enjoy this website, can also understand the sentiment of the original post and yours.
In fact, on lists where all political views are expressed, realized the animosity expressed here is virtually the same on other boards.
At DU:"You like Nader-you're an jerkoff!" At mixed sites:"You like Democrats-you're a jerkoff!"

... the site you refer to has well over 200 registrants who have posted exactly ZERO posts (about half of all registrants). Lively, diverse discussion indeed.

-SNARF-

There is nothing more dreadful than imagination without taste.
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749 - 1832)

so how would you know, having access to only half the picture?

Julie

the 'secret' "Inner Circle" has the lively, diverse discussions, but the 'public' Outer Darkness does not?

Sort your member list by number of posts, my dear. Over 200 members, out of less than 500, have never made a single post. Many others have given up posting after a brief excitement.

I have to wonder how entertaining you all are at dinner parties. Do you go to someone else's dinner party and talk about what a much better dinner party someone else had? If it is sooooo wonderful over there, why come to DU to boast? I suspect it's because a Real Echo Chamber sounds pretty hollow. If you're trying to drum up business, just give the web address > peopleforchange.net.

Sheesh.

are you really pushing this point?

Are you trying to say that the vast bulk of the posts made here at DU are gems dripping from the mouths of Gods?

You might try opening up more threads.....those you are...no you are 40 response threads are so enlightening...but hey....there are a lot of them....so that matters most!

I'm resisting is that there is another forum which offers much more interesting "diverse and lively" views, and that posting at DU is for dullards.

The question remains, if it is so lively and stimulating, why come to DU to squawk about it? One would have to assume that the level of entertainment is maintained by a false sense of superiority and bravado directed towards the object which engenders jealousy and envy.

Variety, it's the spice of life. Try it sometime.

Julie

Ah, obsession. Kinda stinky....got a bitter scent to it.

;-)

Julie

drfemoe Posted: Feb 10 2004, 01:51 PM at Dean Underground ~

I am fucking sick and tired of this shit.

I am not dis-inviting ANYONE from the Dean campaign, but this is a PRIVATE forum for DEAN SUPPORTERS.

...

Guess WHAT? If YOU (ANYONE) ARE ABB, THERE IS A PLACE FOR YOU. IT'S CALLED DEMOCRATICUNDERGROUND. This is *DEANUNDERGROUND. If someone doesn't like hanging out with a few NBDers, then this may not be the right place for you.

End Quote

You also fought like hell to keep the invitation process as exclusive as possible! :scared:

So drfemoe ... seems to me your at the wrong discussion board? :shrug: Go back to the one you helped bring down, wont you?

Note: *Dean Underground has now become "People For Change" (which to my understanding has about 500 registered members and about 10-12 who are active posters.

always there to prove the point!!

But "pick my candidate for VP" etc.

Some of our colleagues surely wanted it just this way, of course--but they have made a critical error in judgment, IMHO.

I see trouble ahead--especially in the donation rounds--if this place keeps tracking further into dullsville....

Ain't that the truth!
I saw a dear fellow Clarkista post that Kerry would pick neither Clark nor Edwards and instead opt for a list that was so boring I had to wake up to finish reading it.
I, unfortunately, agree with that person - but, you're right - it's getting a might dull!

But don't fret. There are still a few around bashing Kerry, if you care to join them.

anymore - right?

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

Apparently.....

Is devote any efforts to lessening the chances that candidate has for victory in November, by repeating smears and slurs that form lines of attack for the enemy, or by urging people not to vote for the candidate on various grounds. These things we may safely leave to the rectionaries to do for themselves; it is hard for me to see why left and progressive people should want to assist them at it, and for free, too....

"Kill one, warn one hundred."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

As always, but this time even better!
:yourock:

I do not see the connection....

You do not see any connection because the repeating of slurs and smears that consituted so much of the bitter opposition to the candidate who has secured the nomination has nothing to do with thinking, and indeed, there did not seem to me very much by way of thought behind most of the most vocal opposition.

"Can't nobody here play this game?"

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

But not much strident opposition of the sort you invoke with such urgent outrage.

But then, it seems that from your POV, any questioning or doubts of any kind regarding policy or strategy could be considered a smear or slur.

"Treason" I believe is the term you used to label criticism of Kerry and the efforts of supporters of other candidates even while the race was still on.

Well the race is over now, Old Chum, and let me suggest that imperious proclamations of betrayal and attempts to stifle useful discussion are counter-productive at this stage.

One might easily form the impression you do not like me very much....

Once the Sage wrote: "The king has his executioner, but you are not that man. It would be like your trying to cut wood like a master carpenter, and if you try and cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

nt.

Backing away from the points you urge does you no credit, Sir.

"It is wrong to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

not after the fact and we were realistic and idealistic - the people spoke. And, we will win.

Just checking....

Chapter 1: Ignorance is Strength

Throughout recorded time, and probably since the end of the Neolithic Age, there have been three kinds of people in the world, the High, the Middle, and the Low. They have been subdivided in many ways, they have borne countless different names, and their relative numbers, as well as their attitude toward one another, have varied from to age to age; but the essential structure of society has never altered. Even after enormous upheavals and seemingly irrevocable changes, the same pattern has always reasserted itself, just as a gyroscope will always return to equilibrium, however far it is pushed one way or the other.

The aims of these three groups are entirely irreconcilable. The aim of the High is to remain where they are. The aim of the Middle is to change places with the High. The aim of the Low, when they have an aim -- for it is an abiding characteristic of the Low that they are too much crushed by drudgery to be more than intermittently conscious of anything outside their daily lives -- is to abolish all distinctions and create a society in which all men shall be equal. Thus throughout history a struggle which is the same in its main outlines recurs over and over again. For long periods the High seem to be securely in power, but sooner or later there always comes a moment when they lose either their belief in themselves, or their capacity to govern efficiently or both. They are then overthrown by the Middle, who enlist the Low on their side by pretending to them that they are fighting for liberty and justice. As soon as they have reached their objective, the Middle thrust the Low back into their old position of servitude, and themselves become the High. Presently a new Middle group splits off from one of the other groups, or from both of them, and the struggle begins over again. Of the three groups, only the Low are never even temporarily successful in achieving their aims. It would be an exaggeration to say that throughout history there has been no progress of a material kind. Even today, in a period of decline, the average human being is physically better off than he was a few centuries ago. But no advance in wealth, no softening of manners, no reform or revolution has ever brought human equality a millimeter nearer. From the point of view of the Low, no historic change has ever meant much more than a change in the name of their masters.

http://www.notbored.org/goldstein.html

I'm not voting for Kerry because he's a Bush-Lite! I'm voting for Howard Dean...no matter what! Na na na na boo boo! (kidding:))

1) We can keep each other informed of events across the nation and world, considering the news blackout that has occurred with the us news media.

2) When an issue or subject does need to be address we can group together and inform our leaders that issue or subject be addressed in a certain manner (remember the F.C.C. and the grassroots response to the right wing plan of condensing the media).

3) Many (most) of us are progressives and we will not our issues address in the fashion that we feel appropriate, this also includes the candidates that did not win. Having some support on the backside and what to do about the future is very good feeling from time to time, another words to support each other.

4) There is serious work ahead of us if Mr. Bush Jr. is or is not elected in November 2004. The damage the Bush Jr. Administration has done is tremendous and I dislike saying this, but there is more to come.

5) The multitudes of people you say are no longer on this board can be a misstatement. There are many reasons why people are not posting, either they do not have a comment (something has already been said), busy (50 or more work hours are not uncommon these days), computer is busted (it took me a week to recover after 2 hard drives in the same computer went south), and there are more. Just to say people are hanging around because is without merit.

This is your debate. Respond please!

mrdmk

and tombstones.

;-)

nt.

serious posts that are meant to convey information about races across the country sink faster than a Sorprano's body...

The only threads that stay up are those that proivde for mental masturbation for people who only want to engage in a game of verbal dozens.....

This thread is a case in point...

One owuld hope that this thread would allow us to organize our selves towards maximizing or electoral success in the Fall, to hone our message, learn of new repug attacks and respond.....part of that would be discussing areas of weakness for the Kerry campaign...but that is treated as high treason by some...

The main problem is that there is a loss of focus, folks have become dispirited, are in morning of have ben driven away....further splitting our ability to coordinate the cyber democracy we are building...

There is a long hard fight ahead....and some act as if the battle is over...I for one do not want to approach this election with my head up my ass....

Go figure...I want to win everything! And that's how I'm going to work...

:evilgrin:

And to think I didn't cause any of those 3 locked threads... I am getting slow.

Nice shiny chamber you guys have created.
I'll head back to the other forums now.