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To Hillary's supporters on DU: Tell me what her positive message is

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Tropics_Dude83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 04:01 PM
Original message
To Hillary's supporters on DU: Tell me what her positive message is
OK DU Hillary fans,

Tell me what Hillary's positive message is. I have a half day off today and have watched MSNBC. I see that Hillary since she is in trouble is on the attack saying that Obama's words are cheap and complaining about Obama waiting until February 21st to debate instead of debating on February 17th. I hear her campaign director Howard Woflson talking about how she plans to win the nomination with superdelegates.

However, I don't hear what her positive message is. What is her message? It's basically "Obama's bad, I'm good."

So, I am all ears and I'll try to be objective. Why is she always on the attack against Obama. Why isn't she running a positive campaign?

In short, where is the hope?
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Basically same as Obama's
But SHE could actually make it happen for real.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Only if she can make her camapign happen for real. Which we haven't seen much of.
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SpooningNinja Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Nothing is going to happen without bipartisanship
And the Clinton's are far too divisive to be effectually bipartisan.
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Why, yes, we have seen what bipartisanship has done for us in the past?
Right!
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Thats right, forgot about her experience
Slipped my mind again
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thoughtcrime1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. I didn't realize she was an advocate of transparency in gov't
Where's her tax return, anyway?
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Fine
His Government will be transparent.

:shrug:

That way we get to see him bending over for the GOP over and over again?
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thoughtcrime1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Being able to see how every legislator gets their campaign money
will make them more accountable to their constituents.
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DemGa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. "Why isn't she running a positive campaign?"
Edited on Thu Feb-14-08 04:10 PM by DemGa
Obama's shameless validation of right-wing attacks on Hilary deserves some hard hitting -- the hardest they have. And besides, a few softballs lobbed Obama's way and it's like a temper tantrum. It's obscene.
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Amen! She has tried being respectful...
and Obama has sunk to increasing lows.

He is attacking the shoulders on which he stands... when he goes after the first Clinton administration. Enough is enough.

Play hardball, Hill! We can all kiss and make up after you get the nomination.
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samrock Donating Member (501 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. Policy wise
there is very little difference between the two, but I feel Clinton has more polticial skills/tools to get the stuff we want done .. and the stuff we want UNDONE thru congress..
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. you're not listening
her campaign is actually very positive, including about Obama. The attacks on Obama are secondary but they get most of the attention from the media, and even more from DU.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Yes, she's very positive
that making people throw money at health insurance executives will improve our healthcare.

There's a difference between being positive and being right.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. tell it to the OP
he's talking about being positive, not about healthcare.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. Ha ha--do some reseach--Obama started attaching her on the trail a few weeks ago!
So, I am all ears and I'll try to be objective. Why is she always on the attack against Obama. Why isn't she running a positive campaign?
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. Adults are supporters of candidates, not fans -- I'm a supporter
"Hope" and "positive" mean nothing. Senator Clinton is a pragmatist, and that's what we need for the next few years. I don't fucking want Bruce Springsteen in the White House, as much as I like the Boss

Speaking of a "positive"message: shouldn't you practice what you preach???
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. Positive, or feel-good?
Hillary doesn't have much of a feel-good message. She is running on her ability to take on tasks that Bush has neglected. It's a pretty standard moderate-progressive agenda.

Barack Obama's is very similar, but he is campaigning on a feel-good platform. I think he will have much less success in dealing with Republican obstructionists. He is markedly less savvy and aggressive than Hillary and his message of compromise will make it easier to steamroll him.

Although he has actual nuts-and-bolts plans to implement, he has never specified how the feel-good message would be accomplished. How would he create hope? What would he change? He talks about changing the mindset that led to the war, but how would he do that? It's rhetoric, and while it's nice, most of his followers think it's something substantial. In effect, it's a pep-talk.

The idea that Hillary is "always on the attack" is a narrative, not the truth. The campaign has actually been quite tame. If there is anyone who could cry foul, it's Hillary, because of the preferential treatment Obama is receiving. I do not expect any Obama supporters to acknowledge it, but within a few months of a nominee being chosen, it will be very visible. But if you want to try to be more objective, simply keep track of the press' scrutiny of each of the candidates. Obama has received nearly none; Clinton has had the kitchen sink thrown at her, and it's only February. Although many DUers speak darkly of the "Clinton sleaze machine," this machine seems to exist only in the minds of people who dislike the Clintons. When you have hundreds of thousands of people spreading this message, it becomes clear that the phrase actually refers to a machine that is aimed at the Clintons.

My support of Clinton is based on her superiority in handling attacks, and in taking care of the federal business of the people of New York. Barack Obama has certainly been no slouch, but Hillary's record is quite formidable. She has also managed to win the respect of nearly all the Republicans in NY, and the support of about half of them. In spite of the constant conspiracy theories about the DLC, she is quite progressive, far more so than the DLC's stated principles. She and Obama are quite alike in their voting records, which is why so much attention (and ranting) is being given to the IWR vote and so little to the other war votes.

With Obama, we really have no idea how he would handle a day-in, day-out Beltway dogpile, though it is a certainty that he will have to if and when he is the president.

An Obama presidency would not suck. But a Clinton presidency would get a lot more done. It would also be more controversial, there would be more conflict and attacks lobbed at her, and it would be a delight for cynics. But I do not mind conflict, and I'm seeking neither emotional comfort nor inspiration from my government officials.

You finished you post with the line, "where is the hope?" Hope is in the simple activity of getting up in the morning, getting the kids to school, and going into work. It's the disabled or elderly person once again shaking off discouragement and doing just a little more than could be done yesterday. It's government officials who plan practical agendas to improve the lives of the people, and shepherd those projects from proposal to cutting the ribbon. Hope is in the day-to-day action of being alive, thinking, planning, and (especially) doing.

Obama does not lack for the practicalities, and Hillary is not without inspiration. But if anyone thinks that campaign style makes a bit of real-world difference, they just haven't been paying attention. My main criticism of Obama is that he is selling the sizzle; Hillary is cooking the steak.

--p!
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. What, you mean you want catchy slogans and fluffy feelgood tripe?
Can't help you.

But I do think she would make a better president.

Funny, that's what I thought this was about.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
18. That a shit-load of states don't matter. Isn't it liberating to know that?
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
20. Her positive message should be how she sees America under her
Presidency: America is strong, America is innovative, America is fair, America is rife with opportunity, America will have great infrastructure, America is for all Americans..not just for the rich.
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