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Ohio: A hollow victory based on a lie. CBC (Canada TV) exonerates Obama on NAFTAgate

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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:22 PM
Original message
Ohio: A hollow victory based on a lie. CBC (Canada TV) exonerates Obama on NAFTAgate
Get the full story here:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/5/112926/0842/300/469572

According to CBC, all the details were wrong. Canada contacted the campaigns. Michael Wilson was not involved. And, most damning, they are now admitting that the memo at the heart of the controversy "may not accurately reflect what they were told".

In other words, according to CBC, this scandal was manufactured out of whole cloth. Goolsbee said something consistent with Obama's official position - that he wanted protections added, but it wasn't going to be a fundamental change or revocation of NAFTA, and that Obama was not a protectionist. This was morphed somewhat going into the memo, and now the embassy admits they "may have misrepresented the Obama advisor". Even after the memo misrepresented Obama, the Harper government took it a step further and then leaked a completely fantastic version of the story to the press, in order to maximize the bloodletting.

In short, Chris Bowers was right. This whole thing is clever maneuvering on the part of the Harper government to bolster McCain by sowing dissent among Democrats.

A lot has been written about this scandal. The sensational misrepresentation of the original CTV story was shocking. But now CBC has cleared the air, with the final note from the embassy that they "may have misrepresented the Obama advisor". In the end, there's nothing to the story but air. It all boiled down to a memo, which was far less dramatic in content than the first story that ran, and now they are even disclaiming the accuracy of the memo.

In short, people have been duped. With the memo disclaimed, there is nothing left to support this story.


The Hillary campaign is not implicated here; just the conservative government in Canada trying to help out the Republicans in America. This is just unbelievable and dispiriting. If we can't base our votes on the truth, then what kind of democracy are we living in?

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Abacus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Conveniently
the day after primaries.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yep. I mean if it was true then it was fair game. But it wasn't. Ugh. nt
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
65. K&R
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #65
84. HILLARY DID IT! PROOF! LINK!
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #84
109. The article does NOT say Hillary "did it" or that she was involved in the smear
it says Harper's Chief of Staff, Brodie, told a bunch of reporters:

"He said someone from (Hillary) Clinton's campaign is telling the embassy to take it with a grain of salt. . . That someone called us and told us not to worry."

In context, it was to take what SHE said with a grain of salt (or what both of them said)

(I'm supporting Obama but your representation is not correct.)

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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #65
110. Seems it was true - and Obama lied - the memo has not be recanted or disclaimed by the writer
We have the PM's office saying they know of nothing said by Obama that contradicts precious statements - and you can only guess what that means

The Canadian gossip column newspaper article produced this week says that a source knows of a "source" that "heard" of a phone call from the "clinton campaign" - and you can take that to the bank - and get what?

And we have the ultimate debunking - Obama says the memo got it wrong - after he denied that there was a meeting - I believe that is called a lie at least as to the denying that there was a meeting

But you can trust Obama - esp after his chief economic's adviser tells CNBC's Kudlow that Kudlow should not worry about the cost of all the Obama programs because Obama does not intend/expect those programs to pass.

Yep this thread does prove the Obama NAFTA scandal has no proof - oh wait - I guess this thread proves nothing other than you have to believe Obama walks on water and just hope he is telling the truth about the memo writer being a liar.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
118. beachmom, have you seen this video of Clinton discussing this?
This was an interview she did sometime on Tuesday:

'I'm feeling really good' 1:53
Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton says she is feeling good about a positive outcome in the Ohio primary.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?iref=videoglobal

A very cheerful Hillary says: "... I'm feeling really good... Obama has said one thing to the people of Ohio on NAFTA but his campaign sent his top economic advisors to tell the Canadians behind closed doors what Sen. Obama said in Ohio is just political posturing and to not pay attention -- speeches don't change NAFTA... This has been a very mild primary campaign ... This has been a very positive exchange..."
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tyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Hopefully
Obama is on the trail of whomever was behind this smear.

Remember, Mark Penn's firm handles the campaign managers for both Clinton and McCain. That'd be a good place to start.
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Kukesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. It was an election-eve attempt to discredit Obama.
And, it worked.

I was hoping our party wouldn't stoop to these tactics. Guess I'm losing hope.

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samdogmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. Our "party" includes everyone except the Clintons!
It seems that they have their own party--and theirs doesn't work for anyone who's last name isn't Clinton.
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ForeignSpectator Donating Member (970 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #23
67. That'd be the party of MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE n/t
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
72. This is NOT about the Dems it's about the Canadian government using Canadian government resources to
rig our election. This is SERIOUS!
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. It looks to me like Hillary colluded with the Right Wingers in Canada.
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hey560 Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
58. Help me Digg this Story up To get the Word Out ...
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #27
103. This is why when you see a rabid Obamite you know you're not
dealing with a rational person. Hillary had nothing to do with this. But you crazies gotta keep pushing that bullshit. And you continue to push people who are on the fence, or who were for another candidate (like me - Edwards) away. Being associated with a cult of foaming at the mouth fanatics who have no powers or reason or logic thinking is just something that is not going to happen. And I've discussed this with a lot of people. Why do you think Hillary made such a comeback, shocking only to Obamites? Because not only do we think this guy is a flawed and opportunistic candidate, the continual stupidity like this ensures that McCain will end up in the White House. Not because we will vote for him, but we'll NOT vote for Obama.
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LVjinx Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
86. Actually, the Canadian government is calling this a "leak"
Which means it was true. Just like the Bush "Secret Prison" leak. They insisted it wasn't true, but they were investigating the leak. How can you investigate someone revealing classified information that doesn't actually exist? Lame.

So yeah, NAFTAgate, as you call it, was real.
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workinclasszero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
102. Hillary and right wingers smearing the progressive with a lie
Nope, couldn't see that coming.



Obama better expect more of the same from Hillary and her reich wing allies.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. How did the Clinton campaign get hold of the memo?
and not the Obama camp?

She used it against Obama and it worked.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. The same way drudge got her fundraising numbers before her campaign released them?
Vile stuff.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
29. One more time, it looks like Hillary colluded with a foreign, rightwing government
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. well, see? THAT requires experience!
I guess she DID learn something in those eight years after all!
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #29
46. based on what evidence - only evidence is memo proving Obama lied about no meeting
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. "what kind of democracy are we living in?"
You're not really still wondering that, are you?

It's a corporate-owned one... in case you are.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. One more f***ing lie from the Clinton Campaign
There was never anything there.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. but i am told by HRC supporters lie and fear are good politics. n/t
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Bush supporters think the same thing. So do Moonies.
.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. yes, you are right. today, the day after, i am seeing so much of bushco
in this room. i am feeling like i am back in 2004 election. kerry walking in dignity. bushco/rove dirty politics. i am hearing so many comments justifying dirty politics i am feeling a shift in time

that alone would make me reflect if i was an HRC supporter.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. They don't CARE. They invested themselves in their TEAM's NAME. Like Cowboys and Yankees.
They care nothing about the blowback that hurts this nation and its citizens. That the Bushes and Clintons have become 'America's teams" to cheer for matters not.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
36. ya well that is another thing that puts HRC supporters and bush supporters as one
and that is another commonality. both bush and clinton are more important tha what is really important. and the supports, though they know, see the wrong in it follow. and then i am told if i dont vote for them, i am voting for opponent. same hhappened with republicans that didnt like bush. they didnt want to BUT they were blackmailed into voting for the hate. the fear fear fear.

i refused to be blackmailed for my vote. that is what hillary is counting on. that is why she, bush, rove arent afraid to do this. they know they can blackmail us for our vote. FEAR of the other side.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. This just goes to show you can never believe a word from those maple-syrup-eating bastards
I wouldn't trust a Canadian any farther than I could throw the igloo he lives in.

;)
(University of Toronto class of '07)
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. LOL, watch it or we will send our fleet of canoes after you!
Oh, and you may well make fun of our maple syrup BUT you are ignoring what our maple syrup bombs can do!

:rofl:
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. Next you're gonna tell me all the soap in the world won't wash off the stickyness
.... oh shit what if that's true!??!?!

:scared:
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #32
47. That's the beauty of our "arsenal", it paralyzes our enemies...
without harming them and the material in our bombs is natural and bio-degradable, beat that, eh!

:rofl: Thanks for the laugh this morning, it has put a smile on my face and provides a light moment at a much needed time in GDP, imo
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
71. Fucking flappy-headed beady eyed bastards!
Oh yeah, Free Quebec!
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NikolaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
97. ROFL
Edited on Thu Mar-06-08 06:44 AM by NikolaC
I was about to flame your butt :rofl: since my husband is from Canada and is one of the smartest, kindest and most wonderful people that I have ever met :). Glad I read the rest of the post before doing so ;).

Seriously, Harper is a right wing jerk who is trying (I believe) to follow slowly but surely in Bush's footsteps. The timing of this NAFTA thing has a very high stink to it and the excuse that it would bolster only McCain just does not ring true to me.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. Welcome To Politics. If Obama Couldn't Overcome A Number 3 On A Scale Of 10, That's Reason For
concern going into the GE. I'm dead serious with that.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. no, it is DIRTY politics. it is LIE. call it what it is. n.t
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
42. It Wasn't A Lie.
Hillary didn't make this all up. In fact, she had nothing to do with it. Please stop being so disingenuous. Furthermore, we still don't know how much truth there may be to it.

And please try and take heed to the point in my post about his not being able to overcome a number 3 on a scale of 10. That is most definitely something that should concern people.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. the memo has never been said to be a lie - only lie is Obama denying meeting took place
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #45
52. Harper lied about the contents of the memo!! D'oh! Now the memo
itself is under scrutiny and can't be said to be true.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #52
111. the writer says it was true
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #42
116. ..
Since 75 per cent of Canadian exports go to the U.S., Mr. Obama and Ms. Clinton's musings about reopening the North American free-trade pact had caused some concern.

Mr. Brodie downplayed those concerns.

"Quite a few people heard it," said one source in the room.

"He said someone from (Hillary) Clinton's campaign is telling the embassy to take it with a grain of salt. . . That someone called us and told us not to worry."

Government officials did not deny the conversation took place.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080305.wharpleak0305/BNStory/National/home
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
81. Why don't you just leave this room.
Your girl is a cheat. FACT. I'm sorry you have lost your conscious in this. I sorry you have given up your morals. Truly Sad.
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hey560 Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
13. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY HUGE. THIS WILL BE ALL OVER THE NEWS HERE IN CANADA.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
112. LOL - seems it is not all over the news in Canada - and the memo writer does not say he lied about O
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bleowheels Donating Member (356 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. Funny how the truth always comes out after the damage has been done.
And the fact of the matter is that some people will still think Obama is hiding something. The Hillary campaign and it's supporters and the media used this story to their advantage and they won't think twice about it's implications. This is like the newspaper correction or retraction that is printed on page 30 after an error is made on page 1. Too little too late.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. again 2004 election. clinton is feeling more and more like bushco/rove
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
78. Obama lied
he denied that ANY meeting occurred

then....ONLY when confronted with the bald faced evidence that indeed a meeting HAD occurreed, did Obama squirm out by saying 'he hadn't been informed'

Obama lied by denying the meeting occurred...independently of WHATEVER was discussed in the meeting

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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #78
82. I think you are missing the point here. Go away.
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JimGinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
15. Shockingly There Has Been No Mention Of This By The M$M
Go figure.:eyes:


K&R
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
66. Actually, it was mentioned on the M$M the other day
I believe it was Sunday morning.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. Hillary and Bill are part of the conservative movement in America
they just lie about it.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. We need more pictures of bill with pappy!
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
54. Yep
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
17. Reheeeeheeeaaally. n/t
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
22. Mission Accomplished for the Clinton Machine. -eom
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
24. Mucked by the masters of media manipulation.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
28. The campaignSSSSSSSSSSS. Plural.
:think:
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
30. Obama - just another politician - NAFTA/Canada = untrustworthy
All the articles in the world are not going to remove that stigmatizing from Obama.

The story was out to long, with to many different explanations about it.

Bottom line is his economic adviser talked to Canada about NAFTA, the lack of trust for politicians in general makes me think this is going to be remembered negatively for Obama.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. perhaps worse was Obama lying about a meeting taking place for so long
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #41
83. Perhaps worse was hillary conspiring with canadian repukes.
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Bad Thoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
31. Obama needs to hammer media on this
Edited on Wed Mar-05-08 12:40 PM by Bad Thoughts
It wouldn't have been a story if the media hadn't gone along with it. He needs to go out and talk about how the media played this story, effectively intervening in the democratic process. He should demand an apology, as well.

Let me raise this further: we should be hammering the media, the same way conservative bloggers hammered Rather on Memogate.
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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
33. Hillary's campaign wasn't implicated...
Edited on Wed Mar-05-08 12:39 PM by casus belli
but that didn't stop them from using it to their political advantage. Don't expect a retraction on her "Obama is giving Canada the old wink-wink" comment anytime soon.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
34. Kos story link doesn't work but no matter - your post is wrong -nothing is "dismissed"
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/03/04/harper-obama.html

Harper denies aids leaked memo

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/03/03/obama-canada.html?ref=rss

Obama denial of meeting shown to be a lie by 3/3 report of the memo


There is no CBC story saying otherwise. The writer of the memo has not said he was wrong - the corporate tax cutting regulation reducing Obama does not plan to change NAFTA -

DEAL WITH IT

INDEED, DEAL WITH FACT OBAMA LIED ABOUT IT

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. of course not. swiftboat still demands kerry shot self in foot and bushco supporters
believe it is still true, ..... regardless of fact
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. TV quote below - see if you can find where memo is said to be false
The reality is what we're talking about here is a report that someone in the consulate to Chicago wrote to their superior," Harper responded. "There are literally thousands of documents like this written around the world by Canadian officials. It's ridiculous to think that the prime minister's office even ever sees these documents."
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #40
51. Fine, if your devotion to your candidate means siding with the conservative gov. in Canada.
I mean you really are going to push this story when it was completely blown out of proportion by a conservative government that is in cohoots with its conservative counterparts in America?

So siding with a conservative (who freaking lied about the content of the memo) against a Democrat is cool with you? This is the problem with Hillary, and apparently, her supporters.
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dbmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #34
95. That report is severely outdated
Edited on Thu Mar-06-08 06:26 AM by dbmk
The link you posted is to a story that was written before the facts surfaced.

And Obama didn't lie. He was asked about whether they had called the Canadian Embassy to say that his stance on NAFTA was just political positioning.

When the facts were that a campaign member had been visiting the consulate in Chicago for other reasons and had dropped a line or two on the matter. Something that Obama cannot be expected to have known. He might have - but might as well not have.

The story was wrong on so many accounts that there was little to no chance for Obama to link the two incidents - and make a clarification beyond a denial.

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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
37. It's About As Big a Lie as the Downing Street Memo
Where language was fought over and the official story set to protect someone from major embarrassment.

On Feb. 9 Austan Goolsbee, the senior economic adviser to Barack Obama's presidential campaign, had a meeting with Georges Rioux, consul general for the Canadian government. The two men met in Chicago, where Rioux maintains a consular office for the states of Illinois, Missouri, and Wisconsin and where Goolsbee teaches economics at the University of Chicago. (Slate readers may also remember Goolsbee as a onetime "Dismal Science" columnist.) Afterward, Joseph DeMora, a consulate staff member, wrote an enthusiastic summary (see below and the following two pages) for Canadian Ambassador Michael Wilson. In the memo, DeMora praised Goolsbee's "intellectual prowess … approachability, curiosity and youthful enthusiasm" and alerted Wilson that the Obama brain-truster "appeared genuinely … impressed by the magnitude" of the economic relationship between the United States and Canada (see below).

For the Canadians, a key point of concern was Obama's sharp criticism of the North American Free Trade Agreement. DeMora wrote Wilson that in the Chicago meeting, Goolsbee "candidly acknowledged the protectionist sentiment that has emerged, particularly in the Midwest, during the primary campaign" but reassured Rioux that Obama's NAFTA-bashing "should be viewed as more about political positioning than a clear articulation of policy plans." Three weeks later, Canada's CTV News reported that a "senior member" of Obama's campaign had phoned Wilson personally to advise him to "not be worried about what Obama says about NAFTA." The Obama campaign denied that story, which (if you believe DeMora's account) was only slightly off the mark, and declined to elaborate.



http://www.slate.com/id/2185753/entry/0/
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #37
79. two levels of Obama lies here
lying about the contents of the meeting

and lying by denying the meeting had ever occurred



of course Obama supporters gloam onto the fact that...Canada---when accused by US of interfering in a US election---went into full damage control mode by saying Nafta was not discussed....

of course Canada rushed to Obama's defense concerning the meeting minutes....b/c Canada itself was also looking very smarmy here

but...fact remains....even if we allow that Nafta was not discussed (for the sake of the argument), fact remains that Obama lied by DENYING there ever was any meeting

which is partly why he got so pissy and huffy and stalked off during the media press conference that he, himself, had requested
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
39. Well, I wonder if MSM might give this 60 seconds of air time,
considering they beat the original story to death and no doubt contributed to the losses on the Obama side.
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Alter Ego Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
43. You know, I'm ashamed to admit that the Hillary supporter
who told me not to trust the Harper government was right.

Wherever you are, Hillary supporter whose handle here at DU I can't remember, thank you.
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elmerdem Donating Member (312 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
44. It is the media stupid.
there is not an investigative reporter left. How hard could it have been for a real investigative reporter to get the truth & quickly (i.e. before the primaries)? Not hard...truth is the Canadian gov't & the Clinton machine played the media & the american sheeple for what they are...FOOLS. It sucks & I hate it, but unless the media grows some integrity that is the status quo.
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canadian_is_cold Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
48. Kick, kickity kick :)
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blocker Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
49. LINK LINK LINK PLEASE!!
Please provide a link!!!! or it means nothing!
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canadian_is_cold Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. links
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #50
80. Wow
That CBC report made it clear that the Harper government was deliberately trying to torpedo the Obama campaign. And it appears to have worked in Ohio. I hope the loyal opposition in Canada can use this opportunity to bring down Harper.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Link was at the top to the Kos diary. They link to the CBC. nt
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
55. More lies from Kos covering Obama's lies...
...he at first said it never happened...guess what, it did...then he said, oh yeah, we met, but they got it wrong. Who the fuck cares if the interpretation is different..Obama had to backtrack on lying about the meeting never having taken place.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #55
88. Obama folks are out in full damage control. Spin, spin and more spin. (eom)
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MojoMojoMojo Donating Member (579 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
56. What Goolsbee said was off the record,which makes me think its
its even more indicative of a 2 faced boneheaded Obama.
Whether Goolsbee sought to contact the Canadian government or the Canadians sought out Goolsbee is the main dispute in the story.
IMO That point is totally irrelevant.
The problem is with Obamas ability to lie to misrepresent his position in order to gain votes.
You cant blame anyone else but Obama for the problem.
Dont blame the messenger .
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MojoMojoMojo Donating Member (579 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. If Obama didnt misrepresent himself in other ways ,Id be more inclined to believe
he is innocent here.
He misrepresents his source of campaign financing.
"No Lobby or Pac money" is meant to deceive the public int believing he has no corporate influence,when in fact he does take lobby and Pac money and takes as much corporate money as Hillary.
Eventually a liar will get tripped up.Get used to it.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
59. So, the Canadian meeting occured, though Obama said it hadn't.
How is that a debunk?
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
60. Wow Thank you for posting this
It really explains why the Obama campaign reacted as they did. This is insidious. I hope that Obama can get this story out.
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cottonseed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
61. She lied us into war. Now she's lying herself into the White House.
Edited on Wed Mar-05-08 02:06 PM by cottonseed
This is the kind of garbage I think everyone is sick of.


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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
62. Wow! I Thought The Planted Questions, Race Baiting, Muslim Bashing and Fear Mongering Were Bad
This is a major international scandal - imagine if it were reversed and George w. Bush intervened in Canada's or Mexico's elections to divide the liberal party.

Now, I am definitely donating more money to Obama!!
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Wayjose Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. That is why at the Repug Freerepublic they call her HITLERY
They are in 7th Heaven seeing how we destroy our party and let McShame regroup and prepare for the GE :(
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
64. RW Canda is in FULL damage control as was BO yesterday!
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #64
113. Obama is the candidate of RW Canada and RW US - they fear Hillary
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
68. K & R
:thumbsup:
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
69. What's up w/ Shrum being ahead of the curve?
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watrwefitinfor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
70. Why isn't this on the front page? n/t
Edited on Wed Mar-05-08 07:40 PM by watrwefitinfor
Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Primaries » Recommend

Error: You've already recommended that thread.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
73. kick
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canadian_is_cold Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
74. TODAYS NEWS
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catgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #74
108. Wow.

It was Clinton who had the "political posturing" message to Canadian diplomats.
Then she had the nerve to attack Obama on it and effectively cause him to lose
Ohio and Texas.

So the RW Canadians are just as dirty as the Clintons. MSM SHOULD be all over
THIS info., but they wanted to prolong the race by helping Hillary by exploiting
this version of the story.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
75. Hmm... a hollow Hillary victory...
As her new best pal Jack Nicholson would say, "Is there any other kind?"

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
76. Tangled Friggin' Web

Tangled Friggin' Web

03.05.08 -- 10:28PM
By Josh Marshall

Seems the NAFTAgate leak started with -- surprise, surprise -- the Chief of Staff to Canada's conservative PM Stephen Harper. Only the first hint wasn't about stuff the Canadians had heard from the Obama camp. It was about reassurances the Canadians got from the Clinton campaign. According to a reporter who heard the original conversation, Brodie said "someone from (Hillary) Clinton's campaign is telling the embassy to take it with a grain of salt. . . That someone called us and told us not to worry."

Only somehow this evolved into a story about the Obama campaign giving such reassurances.

The Globe and Mail has the latest details.

So was HIllary bashing Obama for what her own campaign had done? Did they both do it? Was it all a set up? I think the overarching story here is that friendly governments should not interfere in our elections.



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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
77. was Canada in damage control mode... fact is: Obama denied the meeting
took place

when confronted with bald evidence he said 'well no one told him'

no integrity or leadership there
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
85. So a sucker is born every minute, and sometimes the sucker is us.
Edited on Thu Mar-06-08 02:25 AM by bhikkhu
Thanks RW Canadian....words escape me.

edited for angry spelling error. and words still escape me.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 03:57 AM
Response to Original message
87. So, no fundamental change to NAFTA, no threat of revocation. Obama DID LIE
On the campaign trail, just like Clinton.

By the very admission of Kos, who supports Obama's position of
"let's threaten to negotiate but promise no fundamental change
in NAFTA."

Fuck them both, I say.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #87
91. yes, he lied
twice....

including lying by first denying that ANY meeting took place

then having to admit a meeting took place after the evidence was unavoidable
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dbmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #87
96. Hardly a lie
When he has said on more than one occasion - during the last debate too - that he would press for inclusion of better working and environmental standards(the stuff he thinks makes it a competetive nightmare for the US workers) - or cancel the cooporation on it.

He has never said it would be scrapped outright, afaik.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #96
114. afaik saying you would scrap the treaty - as per the memo writer - seems to make O a liar
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dbmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #114
126. Come again?
First of all, that memo has been shot down as a grave misrepresentation.
And even so your comment made no sense in this context. The memo writer had put in that Obama people said he wouldn't scrap it.

And the truth is he never said he would. _IF_ they could renegotiate it to contain higher standards on environmental and worker safety issues and such.

There is no lie in sight.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:23 AM
Response to Original message
89. "May have" does not equal exonerated.
Learn how to read, beachmom.
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #89
92. It's interesting. This is now the 2nd non-denial denial I've seen.
It seems like it would be the easiest thing in the world for the Canadian government to simply say the memo was false, but they've now put out two (what seem to me to be) very calculated statements to give that impression w/out actually stating it.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #92
119. It's strangely enough to pacify the ardent Obamamaniacs, so perhaps that's what the
Edited on Thu Mar-06-08 11:18 AM by Seabiscuit
Canadians are up to.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:48 AM
Response to Original message
90. Ohio: A Fabulous Victory for Hillary based on her Progressive Ideals
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Truthy Nessy Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #90
94. Harper and Bush are liars, and they do it on purpose
Check out this link.
<http://thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2005/11/29/HarperBush/>
Harper, Bush Share Roots in Controversial Philosophy
Linked by Leo Strauss Close advisers schooled in 'the noble lie' and 'regime change.'
....What do close advisers to Stephen Harper and George W. Bush have in common?
.....The recent outing of star New York Times reporter Judith Miller reveals how today's neocons use the media to conceal the truth from the public.

<http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/309925>
Pardy says the leak of Canadian diplomatic intelligence about the views of the Democratic candidates on the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) all but certainly came from Ottawa's political circles, not the diplomatic corps.

That assertion was reinforced last night with a report that the first story on the subject surfaced after offhand comments made by Ian Brodie, Prime Minister Stephen Harper's chief of staff. The Canadian Press reports that Brodie made the comments last week to journalists covering the federal budget.

Read the above and know not to believe Harper..He is a political liar.
Strauss advocates power of the elite and control of the masses, through lies, and misinformation.

BTW I am a dual citizen, American born and Canadian by choice.

Most fellow Canadians that I know hate Harper.

I am hoping the next Canadian election will kick him out. Harper is a Bush boy.

Now it's in the Toronto Star and Globe and Mail that the NAFTA memo is embellished by a embassy staff but how did the memo get leaked. The opposition parties want the RCMP to investigate not the the Harper government.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 05:11 AM
Response to Original message
93. K&R. (nt)
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Caradoc Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #93
98. Cross border interference
While the Harper government's fingerprints are all over this 'NAFTAgate' story, and that must incense some of our american friends for being 'interference', please remember that many US based fundamentalist groups and of course the nefarious, blatantly anti-social NRA have been trying to influence our elections for over a decade now, with some success, most notably in Alberta.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
99. K&R
Yes We Can
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
100. Hillary won Ohio fair and square.
The damage of NAFTA-gate came because Obama and his campaign completely mishandled the issue. They said no meeting took place, when a meeting clearly took place. That hurts a candidate that is running to be the pure-as-snow-transparency candidate, regardless of what was said in the meeting.

And I think Ohio was in Hillary's column more because of favorable demographics. The polls always show a tightening as the election gets closer, but Hillary was expected to win and she did win. There is evidence that the late deciders broke for Hillary 60-40, but that doesn't mean that they were all influenced by events over the past few days. They could have just been excited about both candidates, but went with their gut in the end.

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DeeDeeNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
101. The most unsettling thing about this whole story is that it took on a life of its own
Reminds me of the Dan Rather - Bush AWOL story. Totally overshadowed were the main facts of the candidates' actual positions on NAFTA. It morphed into a story of who said what to whom and why didn't Obama know about it. I had read that many of the Ohio voters who voted for Hillary believed she has always been against NAFTA.
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
104. OBAMA-CLINTON in 2008.... The GOP will die NOT-laughing
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
105. Kick! n/t
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canuk1 Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
106. Ohio: A hollow victory
Globe and mail (one of Canada's top newspapers) is reporting
today that the initial leak of the nafta gate came from PM
Harper's chief of staff. It was a verbal conversation with
several reporters. They are saying he referred to the clinton
campaign and not the obama campaign as being the ones who said
not to worry about nafta being reopened. Somehow, and it is
not being explained by CTV (the network that broke the story
in Canada), it was reported as the obama campaign. I emailed
this article to the obama campaign. This is worth looking into
because it may be that CTV got the story wrong and doesn't
want to admit they made a mistake or the clinton's are somehow
involved in this whole thing. PM is saying the memo leak is
illegal and is opening an investigation. I wouldn't be
surprised if diplomat who leaked the memo has a connection to
the clintons. See nationalnewswatch.com for link to globe and
mail story.

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Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
107. Obama should wide up and learn from Nixon's mistakes
The coverup can be worse than the crime, and this certainly smells of backtracking, altered statements, and a sweeping under the rug.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #107
115. Obama admires Reagan's admin over Bill's - so he should also study Nixon's - I agree
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jn2375 Donating Member (858 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
117. Yeah but wasn't Bill Clinton in Canada the weekend before
this memo was released. I've been reading on other blogs (Huffington post) in the comments section some are saying Bill Clinton either met with a women from Canada or was in Canada that weekend before. Anyone no anything about this? Don't know if its true but I hope someone can check into it.
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canadian_is_cold Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #117
123. Ya he was here in Toronto n/t
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
120. Why is the Canadian Gvoenrment interfering with American elections?
Who the hell are they? If Obama is elected guess what country just made an enemy?
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canadian_is_cold Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #120
124. Harper is a tool
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #120
128. Gee!
When the Canadian Liberal Party supported Al Gore in 2000 guess what country just made an enemy? Chimpy was furious.Harper is in a minority government.He doesn't represent the views of the majority of Canadian citizens at all.And for interfering with other country's elections the US is #1.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #128
130. Then I guess we'll just have to take those tar sands
Seriously, ever hear the adage two wrongs don't make a right?

Duh.
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smiley_glad_hands Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
121. I say we invade, or they give us all their bacon. Forever. eom
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
122. This is totally untrue, most of the people I know who are supporting
Hillary had their minds made up long before this, and to say this is a hollow victory is ingenuous to say the least.
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Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
125. the LIE is always on the front page
the retraction is buried on page 36.
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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
127. Ohio got used again.
This is a storyline that makes you want to cry. The people of Ohio have suffered greatly and needed someone to take action. Clinton made Obama look like he would secretly support the program and now they are left with bullshit on their hands.

If Clinton wins the Nomination I fully expect Ohio to be extremely red during November.
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
129. Canada is damage-control mode--this isn't a tea party it's
an election.
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
131. Kick!
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BringBigDogBack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #131
132. one more.
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