Call me a fabulist if you like

But this is how I see the next few months unfolding. Condi’s testimony will not cap the 9/11 controversy, but will fuel the fire. Cannot help but do otherwise. Then will come the next wave of damning events (Woodward’s book, the Plame indictments, the 9/11 report foremost among them). Continued Fallujah style violence in Iraq will seriously begin to drive down military morale, enlistment, and red state support. The surprising and sustained wellspring of Democratic fundraising will allow Kerry to drive the issue and keep the polls at least within the margin of error until the Democratic convention. At which point Rove will pull his ace. They’ll go right to the Kucinich playbook and call the troops home. October will be all about sweethearts kissing at the docks in San Diego, parades in New York, yellow ribbons in Ohio, and “Johnny Comes Marching” home 24/7 on Fox. It will be a time of patriotic fervor unmatched since…well, since the troops were all sent to topple Saddam. Yes, abandoning Iraq will be radical. But no more so than taking it over was in the first place. And when it comes between a choice of leaving Iraq to chaos, corruption, and mass killings or treating America to four more years of catastrophic conservatism, it won’t even be close.

We can always hope.

whether we citizens have anything to say anymore about who is elected. I believe most Americans have serious doubts about * and probably plan not to vote for him. But, there may be such an enormous rightwing machine on the ground and ready to disenfranchised enough of those who dissent, to give His Lowness, and all others of his ilk, complete power. I obviously don't really know though, and I desperately hope this :tinfoilhat: thinking of mine is just that.

however, since I agree with you, I guess I'm one too

as far as Iraq goes -- if we pull out according to the spin date of July -- I see Iraq exploding into civil war, and thereby making the entire area much more dangerous and certainly fertile ground for terrorists

If we are to stabilize the area the we are going to need the UN involved BIG TIME -- and that won't happen as long as Bombs-Away-Bush is still in "charge"

it will be the beginning of a civil war there. Other countries, read Iran, may get involved, and there is a distinct possibility that a large regional war will develop. Needless to say, this won't play well on tv. I don't see it happening.

Our presence in Iraq is responsible for a lot of the chaos over there. Why, once they get their government set up and the troops retreat, wouldn't it die down? It's not like we're going to totally abandon Iraq after this date, anyway.

You have 3 large ethnic and cultural groups in Iraq: the Kurds, the Shiaas and the Sunnis. They don't like each other, in fact the only thing they seem able to agree on is that they want us to leave. We are the only thing keeping each of these groups from pursuing their goals through military and terrorist attacks against each other. Once we leave, the Kurds will want independence, the Shiaas will want to control the entire country because they have the numbers, and the Sunnis will want to avoid being marginalized. Add to that the interference of outside elements (think Iran and AQ) contributing munitions and "soldiers" to the cause and you have a surefire recipe for civil war.

I may be proven wrong; we may leave and a democracy will sprout and flourish. But I see no reason to believe that Iraqis are any more inclined to democracy than the Afghans, and that isn't reassuring. After we leave, I would expect either another military dictatorship or a theocratic state to "break out." I also assume from the fact that Iraqis are already fighting with each other that it would only intensify if we weren't there to at least limit the scope of any military activity.

If it weren't for the remaining oil in the region, these radical Islamists would be fighting each other in the middle of the desert on camel back and we would be none the wiser. My opinion hasn't changed since shrub decided to go into Iraq: Nothing good will come of this.

What is that supposed to mean?. DK has never advocated a "cut and run" approach to Iraq-- quite the contrary, he has consistently advocated getting the UN in with peacekeepers to replace US combat troops. He has also advocated getting rid of Halliburton and other powerful US companies and letting the people of Iraq decide their own future, and the future of their contry's assets, without outside international interference.

But I wouldn't count on Dubya abandoning Iraq. It's of too much strategic importance to the region-- especially since the Saudis have kicked out US troops.

And after all, our oil is still underneath their soil...

can't be all bad.

Bush can't pull out of Iraq because most of the oil is still there. It will take years to steal it all.