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galadrium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 10:59 AM
Original message
Hillary's winning strategy
This is mostly a question for Hillary supporters. How does attacking Obama with Rovian style attacks help her "if" she gets the nomination? She attacks Obama, and by proxy his supporters, then she expects their vote in November. How is that a winning strategy?
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. HIllary's whining strategy.
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islandmkl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. well...she has noticed that it has historically worked...
for all the Republicans....
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EndElectoral Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
3. HRC's win strategy is to get Limbaugh to ask Repubs to register as Dems and vote for her
This is already happening in PA. Many Republicans are temporarily registering as Dems to vote in the primary. One was interviewed locally in TV and mentioned Rush Limbaugh advises to vote for Hilary Clinton. So i guess she's got his endorsement now.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. Hillary will lose.
If this present shit continues. Because Obama supporters are losing it. They are being dragged down by the process. Obama will lose if he continues to go negative. If he is running as something different, then he should not feel that he should do the same as the rest of them. He should use humor as a defensive weapon - not negative responses. We all lose under the present rules. We must change if we want change.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Barack will lose.

If this present shit continues. Because Obama supporters are losing it. They are being dragged down by the process. Obama will lose if he continues to go negative. If he is running as something different, then he should not feel that he should do the same as the rest of them. He should use humor as a defensive weapon - not negative responses. We all lose under the present rules. We must change if we want change.

Works both ways doesn't it?

Yes, Obama supporters need to stop slinging poo at Hillary. Most, but not all, Hillary supporters post to defend Hillary from all crap posted on this board. If Obamites stop...Hilloites will too.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. What woud you be saying if Hillary had lost OH and TX?
Would it have been over for her? She was desperate to win those states. She had to go negative to survive. Right or wrong, that was her decision. Now she is back in the race and perhaps the favorite? At least, she is still alive to fight another day. Let's try and keep it in perspective.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
5. It's myopic.
I haven't seen a single viable defense for this, and your question has been asked several times on DU. It's a legit question, too.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. The only possible strategy-defense I can think of is...
People are myopic, too. So she runs on experience now, and runs on something else when she gets the nomination, and all things Obama will be forgotten.

:shrug:
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Nine Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
6. Obama's winning strategies
Hillary's fighting hard. Obama's fighting dirty.

For example...

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2...

"It has never been satisfactorily explained why the pro-Clinton camp would want to racialize the primary and caucus campaign. The argument has been made that Hillary Clinton wanted to attract whites and Hispanics in the primaries and make the case that a black candidate would be unelectable in the general election. But given the actual history of the campaign, that argument makes no sense. Until late in 2007, Hillary Clinton enjoyed the backing of a substantial majority of black voters--as much as 24 percentage points over Obama according to one poll in October--as well as strong support from Hispanics and traditional working-class white Democrats. It appeared, for a time, as if she might well be able to recreate, both in the primaries and the general election, the cross-class and cross-racial alliances that had eluded Democrats for much of the previous forty years. Playing the race card against Obama could only cost her black votes, as well as offend liberal whites who normally turn out in disproportionally large numbers for Democratic caucuses and primaries. Indeed, indulging in racial politics would be a sure-fire way for the Clinton campaign to shatter its own coalition. On the other hand, especially in South Carolina where black voters made up nearly half of the Democratic turnout, and especially following the shocking disappointment in New Hampshire, playing the race card--or, more precisely, the race-baiting card--made eminent sense for the Obama campaign. Doing so would help Obama secure huge black majorities (in states such as Missouri and Virginia as well as in South Carolina and the deep South) and enlarge his activist white base in the university communities and among affluent liberals. And that is precisely what happened.

(snip)

Meanwhile, below the radar, the Obama campaign pushed the race-baiting angle hard, rehearsing and sometimes inventing instances of alleged Clintonian racial insensitivity. A memo prepared by the South Carolina campaign and circulated to supporters rehashed the King-Johnson matter, while it also spliced together statements of Bill Clinton's to make it seem as if he had given a speech that "implied Hillary Clinton is stronger than Nelson Mandela." (The case, with its snippets and ellipses, was absurd on its face.) The memo also claimed, in a charge soon widely repeated, that he had demeaned Obama as "a kid" because he had called Obama's account of his opposition to the war in Iraq a fanciful "fairy tale."And a few reporters, while pushing the Obama campaign's line that black voters had credible concerns about the Clintons' remarks, had begun to notice that the Obama campaign was doing its utmost to fuel the racial flames. "There's no question that there's politics here at work too," said Jonathan Martin of Politico. "It helps campaign to... push these issues into the fore in a place like South Carolina."

When asked about the race-baiting charges, Obama campaign spokeswoman Candice Tolliver roiled the waters: "Folks are beginning to wonder: Is this really an isolated situation or is there something bigger behind all of this?" Representative Jesse Jackson Jr., the Obama co-chair, as before, was more direct and inflammatory, claiming that the "cynics" of the Clinton campaign had "resorted to distasteful and condescending language that appeals to our fears rather than our hopes. I sincerely hope that they'll turn away from such reactionary, disparaging rhetoric." The race-baiting card was now fully in play.

(snip)

The Obama campaign has yet to reach bottom in its race-baiter accusations. On February 25, Hillary Clinton planned to deliver a major foreign policy address, an area in which Obama's broad expertise is relatively weak. Clinton was also riding high in the Ohio polls, despite the Obama campaign's false charges about her health plan and support for NAFTA. That same day, the notoriously right-wing, scandal-mongering Drudge Report website ran a photograph of Obama dressed in the traditional clothing of a Somali elder during a tour of Africa, attached to an assertion, without evidence, that the Clinton campaign was "circulating" the picture. The story was silly on its face--there are plenty of photographs of Hillary Clinton and virtually every other major American elected official dressed in the traditional garb of other countries, and Obama's was no different. The alleged "circulation" amounted, on close reading, to what Drudge's dispatch said was an e-mail from one unnamed Clinton "staffer" to another idly wondering what the coverage might have been if the picture had been of Clinton. Possible e-mail chatter about an inoffensive picture as spun by the Drudge Report would not normally be deemed newsworthy, even in these degraded times.

Except by Obama and his campaign, who jumped on the insinuating circumstances as a kind of vindication. The Drudge posting included reaction from the pinnacle of Obama's campaign team. "It's exactly the kind of divisive politics that turns away Americans of all parties and diminishes respect for America in the world," said Obama's campaign manager David Plouffe, who also described the non-story as "the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering we've seen from either party in this election" and "part of a disturbing pattern." Although he never explicitly spelled out the contours of this pattern, he was clearly alluding to race baiting. Later in the day, Obama himself jumped in, repeating the nasty, slippery charge that the Clinton campaign "was trying to circulate this as a negative" and calling it a political trick of the sort "you start seeing at the end of campaigns."


And http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/24/obama-goes-... /
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/04/opinion/04krugman.htm...

December 24, 2007, 10:00 am
Obama goes Harry and Louise

A friend sends me this:

Have you seen or heard about the radio ad that Obama is running in Iowa about health care?

It has a man and a woman talking, with the man leading off saying that health care mandates “force those who cannot afford health care insurance to buy it, punishing those who don’t fall in line.”

This is what I’ve been complaining about. I was willing to cut Obama slack on the lack of mandates in his plan, even though the economics says they’re necessary; I figured that in practice, if elected, he’d end up doing the right thing.*

I started ramping up the criticism when he started attacking his opponents from the right, making the lack of mandates a principle rather than a compromise — because that was poisoning the well, making it much harder for any future Democratic president to implement a plan that will work.

And whaddya know, now he’s running an ad that bears a striking resemblance to the infamous “Harry and Louise” ads, run by the insurance industry, that helped block health care reform in 1993.

Call it the audacity of cynicism.

* Let me repeat the argument: “The point of a mandate isn’t to dictate how people should live their lives — it’s to prevent some people from gaming the system. Under the Obama plan, healthy people could choose not to buy insurance, then sign up for it if they developed health problems later. This would lead to higher premiums for everyone else. It would reward the irresponsible, while punishing those who did the right thing and bought insurance while they were healthy. ”
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galadrium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I guess supporting McCain over Obama isn't dirty... or the 3am fearmongering?
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Redbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
8. She is assuming that issues will matter more to Dems than anger over campaign tactics
Edited on Fri Mar-07-08 11:28 AM by Redbear
health coverage etc are out the window if McCain is elected

Plus Stevens will retire soon and its goodbye to Roe if McCain is elected
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galadrium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. What about all the independents who support Obama?
That calculus doesn't work with them.
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galadrium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
13. Any Hillary supporters want to answer this?
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