Talk issues or STFU

Obama is apparently a one trick pony, capable only of either praising Republicans and using their talking points or using the race issue to swiftboat good Dems when he thinks it will give him an advantage.

Our country is facing huge problems. Did any of you realize the US Commander of the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars announced his retirement today because he refuses to take Bush's orders on invading Iran? And all Obama and his supporters can do is launch a Fox News style swiftboat attack on Geraldine Ferraro, distorting her comments about Obama's favorable treatment about the news meida?

If Obama supporters don't care about the price of gas going up another .30 a gallon in a week or the economy shedding jobs or banks facing a credit crisis, then keep doing what you're doing. Because apparently your candidate doesn't have good enough ideas to solve any of these problems or you would be debating them now on this forum.

These are grim times about to get worse. If you can't discuss issues, and how our party can fix this mess, then sorry, your not a progressive and you're not a Democrat.

Talk issues or STFU.

Clinton was for it. Obama's against it.

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:thumbsup:

Yea that's discussing the issues. Whatever. :eyes:

you really don't want to discuss the issues do you, you've proved that like really quickly. And I'm having more fun just poking a sick at you at this point. So here .....

Soooooooo....how did Hilly vote? For or against a ban to prevent civilians, primarily children, from being maimed?

Issue #2.

Clinton not only voted for IWR, she continued to support it until -- and only until -- it was clear by the 2006 midterm election results that the people were against it!

The war affects the economy and thereby every imaginable stateside issue: healthcare, social security, infrastructure...

:thumbsup: :hi:

What does he plan to do if Bush manages to launch an invasion of Iran?

.......Hillary got us into Iraq...shouldn't we discuss that first?

Guess she was ready on Day One to make a horrible mistake.

or do you just not care about the issue?

I guess she supports the idea of invading Iran.

Issue #3 in favor of Obama.

Next?

(BTW... better shift the debate away from foreign policy issues. Defending Clinton is hopeless on those.)

Every time we talk issues, she'll STFU and change the subject.

Obama supporters are so tiresome.

For someone who wants to talk issues, you're doing nothing but throwing insults.

Maybe you need a time out. You're just full of rage.

- as

:rofl:

and still no discussion of the issues.

that contribute nothing to any discussion, much less one you started.

Is THAT your issue? or will you follow your own request and ...

I also disagree with your dictorial OP.

And I think Biden had the best plan for Iraq.

:sarcasm:

Pure bullshit, you don't want to discuss the issues do you? At this late in the game ..... all you resort to is attacking Obama supporters. Maybe you need a :hug:

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...Neener, Neener...Obama is the winner in Mississippi!

Now back to our regularly scheduled BS from Ozark! :hi:

is that what you're saying?

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Who to support has pretty much already been decided by those here.

The important issues Obama will face when in office will be dealt with again in time. 1st Clinton HAS to face reality & drop out - for the good of the party...making it clear to everyone "why" is the thing now.

Then we can ALL move past the warm-up, & get back to talking the issues when winning the GE.

She made the remarks last week.

This is very similar to what happened when Hillary's MLK comments were (IMO) taken out of context right before the South Carolina primary. I think it was very convenient to fake outrage right before the Mississippi primary.

Elizabeth Edwards made very similar comments, but she wasn't accused of being a racist for it.


"We can't make John black, we can't make him a woman," said Edwards, referring to Illinois Sen. Barack Obama and New York Sen. Hillary Clinton during an interview with Ziff Davis Media about the Internet's role in the 2008 presidential election. "Those things get you a certain amount of fundraising dollars."


I also didn't hear women complaining about Elizabeth's comments. The fact is, that in this race, it has proven to be an advantage to have a compelling story, to be a "first". John Edwards unfortunately did not have that. It's funny, I supported Edwards very strongly, but I even wondered at myself for it! I was questioning my own credentials along those lines.


Bottom line, I don't think Ferraro is a racist, and I certainly don't think Hillary Clinton is.

On Fox News, of all places.

Do try to catch up.

- as

But it was in response to a story that was puffed up right before the primary.

1) Do you really think Ferraro and Clinton (either or both) are racist?

2) Don't you think it HAS been an advantage for Clinton and Obama, that they have pioneering runs? Edwards was locked out of media coverage because of it.

3) Don't you think that Geraldine Ferraro has been branded for 24 years as the only woman ever to run on a major-party ticket? For 24 years, she has been treated as if that was the only accomplishment she has made in her life. Moreover, she is generally asked to respond from the perspective of being the only woman candidate (to date). Her remarks were made in the context of that framework, IMO.

and Clinton (either or both) are racist?"

In the sense that they will do anything -- absolutely anything, including racists things -- to win, YES!

Don't pick and choose, answer them all.

For the record, I disagree with you, but if you really think that, well, okay. I mean, really, that's okay. I do NOT think Hillary (or Bill) Clinton is a racist, and I have no reason to believe Ferraro is. I don't know that she has a record in Congress that is bad on race. I also think she was just pointing out something that happens to be true in this run (I was going to say "race" but it seems so ironic!)

She defended herself against the false accusations and misrepresentation of her remarks by Obama's campaign, as she has every right to do.

.

and he will end up regretting it. Apparently Obama's supporters have double standards when it comes to these things.

It appears that could be on the horizon, if you read the daily news.

Link to news of Fallon's retirement.

http://voanews.com/english/2008-03-11-voa80.cfm

let's discuss why Clinton voted for the IWR...was it incompetence, apathy or complicity?
let's discuss her backing of NAFTA
Let's discuss her backing of the Kyl-Lieberman amendment.


what? you don't want to?

listen, unless and until clinton supporters are willing to discuss the issues instead of smears, then YOU STFU.

:eyes:

:hi:

;) :hi:

sexist x(



:rofl:


I didn't want you to feel left out.

:rofl:

:hi:

Have you taken the time lately to think about what is going on in the outside world?

So YOU shut the fuck up.

and as a feminist I know which religious faiths have progressive ideas about the equality of women and which ones don't.

Do you support religions that don't feel women are equal to men?

But you will always be a dumbass.

when someone is called out for being sexist? Why does that label bother you more than someone being accused of racism?

I'm also upset that you haven't been tombstoned yet.

including his distortion of Ferraro's remarks and accusations of racism reflect a real lack of respect for his opponent. Obama never engaged in these kinds of attacks on his male opponents, so it appears he is sexist.

"He's going for the OJ Simpson vote
His campaign web site has never even had a single paragraph discussing women's issues. What can you expect from a misogynist ass?

Muslims have very different attitudes about women, IIRC and don't see them as equal to men."

That's some impressive issue-talkin' right there, don't you think?

AQ Khan will be the reason BushInc gives for HAVING to go to war.

Thanks Bill.

And thanks Hillary for that Kyl-Lieberman vote - we know damn well why you did it. Continuing to play for BushInc - just as Jackson Stephens groomed you both to do.

Since we're being all intellectual now...

he is, that then actually even try to use it as a put down.

Any feelings towards that issue? It's an important one.

Even if not, I'm glad to see you posting what you are posting now.

I have zero tolerance for bigotry and ignorance like that. None. That trumps which candidate I prefer.

You've given me a bit more faith in DU.

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Furthermore, can you show me evidence that the 'black muslim faith' has old fashioned ideas about women? I'm curious in what context you are speaking of, and also curious what exactly 'black muslim faith' is. Thanks in advance!

Sincerely Yours,

DU-Poster-who-isn't-an-ignorant-bigoted-jackass...

African American Muslim women: an invisible group

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2294/is_51/ai_n9483893

Feminists have had concerns about the Muslim faith and the way it regards women for many years. Its one thing when women choose that faith and decide to follow the strict dictates it has for women. Its quite another when leaders of that faith pass judgment on other women.

Here's another interesting article about problems women have in the Black Muslim community (their terminology)

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=f4dceeef643e10bc9efab19e226b7fbc

OAKLAND, Calif. -- Life was harder than has generally been known for some of the women who lived and worked behind the brick walls of Your Black Muslim Bakery on San Pablo Avenue in Oakland.

While Yusuf Bey, owner of Your Black Muslim Bakery, was holding himself up to the community as a successful religious and business leader who gave downtrodden blacks a second chance, the view inside the bakery during its four decades as an East Bay institution was quite different.

Some women and girls worked long hours while Bey regularly raped and beat them, according to five women's testimony. The names of four of the women have not been released because of the sensitive nature of their allegations.

Though he called himself a self-made millionaire, Bey built his fortune in part on the money he saved by using child labor, by not always paying wages and Social Security and by having his women and children qualify for welfare benefits, the women testified and a caller reported to police in 2002.

``Just being a slave. That's what we were. Slaves,'' one of the women, called Jane Doe 2, testified in a sworn deposition in 2005. Doe 2 said she began having forced sex with Bey when she was 10 and bore her first Bey child when she was 16.

Your first article gave me a headache as I tried to read through the 15 fucking pages of it. I read as many as I could and could still not find what the fuck you're talking about.

Furthermore, you didn't answer my other question. What friends of his are you speaking about? Do you have names? Do you have examples? Are you pulling this out of your ass?

Sincerely yours,

That-which-fucking-hates-bigots.

Wow, OMC!!!!

There is abundant research on the regressive attitudes towards women in this faith. While many women of this faith choose to follow it, non-Muslim women are not as supportive. US women have a right to object to leaders who espouse these beliefs.

his? What are their names? Are you making it up? If not, can you give some examples? Are you bigoted against muslims in general, or just the black ones? Can you provide any evidence that supports your position, other than articles from someone's point of view? Anything factual? Substantial?

I can't stand bigotry, and whether you're doing it intentionally or not you have posted some extremely bigoted things tonight and I find it unacceptable. I also, more than anything else, would like to see why you are relating this bigotry towards Obama. So having that said; my two most important questions would be: Who are those friends, and what has Obama specifically and factually done that makes you to believe that he's a leader that espouses those beliefs?

Let's start there. Thanks.

:thumbsup: :hi:

:yourock:

:woohoo:

and free-ranging OJ voters aren't issues? Holy cow, wake up!

that's a huge issue. It's called racism and it is not acceptable.

That is not what Ferraro said, you're buying Obama's twisted version of her remarks.

and strongly disagree with his accusation that she is racist.

Clinton agrees.

Show me one place where Obama said she is a racist? You are disgusting!

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/11/obama-camp-calls-on-clinton-to-oust-backer-who-said-media-coverage-is-race-based/

Popular phrases from them include, "Shame on you," and "STFU."

OzarkDem is a provocateur.

But he/she won't answer this one. As usual.

let them fight themselves.

i wish it hadn't been.

I can understand catspeak..she said..
I dont give a FRIED RATS ASS about your stupid election/primary crap.

She followed with..
IM THIRTEEN, IM FEMALE, IM a DARK SKINNED TABBY that's FIXED, thanks a lot.

Screw YOU and your stupid Primary..
IM HUNGRY and YOU SUCK, cause dinner is LATE.

I am OWNED, yall.

we should post there (in that area) more often. It gets slooow...My daughter is in college, hearing impaired, and voted her first time!
BTW, love your pics, lol.
My kids all know bits of American sign , thanks to her, and computers and books are the most awesome thing in the world, says Mamma.
:hi:

"Obama is apparently a one trick pony, capable only of either praising Republicans and using their talking points or using the race issue to swiftboat good Dems when he thinks it will give him an advantage."

Now I won't go into the lies in that statement but I will say: I THOUGHT YOU WANTED TO TALK ISSUES!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

And yes it's Obama praising republicans and using their talking points while poor little Hillary is just being beat up for no reason.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Considering YOU were Muslim baiting in another thread.
How is that talking about the issues?

and go post where you belong- on Stormfront with the bigot pigs you have so much in common with.

This thread isn't an issues thread, genius. It's just more slime from your filty keyboard. YOU have NEVER posted anything but filth. How fucking dare you of all people, who never discusses issues, write this?

Get some damned help. Sick in the head people need it.

And yes, of course we know about Fallon. YOU evidently don't even know his name.

Personally, I think Clinton will be the better candidate to deal with that issue.

Oh... shit... wait... For once they're not talking about me....

WOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

:bounce:

:D

:pals:

It's damn good to see you posting again.

:evilgrin:

you need to start posting common sense shit like you did in this thread. I'm going to be very upset if I have to start liking you... :evilgrin:

Bigotry isn't fun and games to me. Most of my engagement here is done in a lighthearted way and with the part of my brain that enjoys being a wiseass and seeing how many people I can take beating up on me at one time lol. But bigotry, prejudice, racism, etc, is not fun and games. That shit is real. That shit is dangerous and damaging. When I see shit like that, it isn't OMC anymore. It's me.

glad to hear it. It's been especially prevalent today..

She says Bush should release oil from the Strategic Petroeum Reserves to relieve pressure on the markets and also called on him to support legislation in the Senate to investigate price gouging in the gasoline industry.

She's also calling for reducing dependence on foreign oil....

Hillary Clinton’s plan to promote energy independence, address global warming, and transform our economy includes:

- A new cap-and-trade program that auctions 100% of permits alongside investments to move us on the path towards energy independence;
- An aggressive comprehensive energy efficiency agenda to reduce electricity consumption 20% from projected levels by 2020 by changing the way utilities do business, catalyzing a green building industry, enacting strict appliance efficiency standards, and phasing out incandescent light bulbs;
- A $50 billion Strategic Energy Fund, paid for in part by oil companies, to fund investments in alternative energy. The SEF will finance one-third of the $150 billon ten-year investment in a new energy future contained in this plan;
- Doubling of federal investment in basic energy research, including funding for an ARPA-E, a new research agency modeled on the successful Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency
- Aggressive action to transition our economy toward renewable energy sources, with renewables generating 25% of electricity by 2030 and with 60 billion gallons of home-grown biofuels available for cars and trucks by 2030;
- 10 “Smart Grid City” partnerships to prove the advanced capabilities of smart grid and other advanced demand-reduction technologies, as well as new investment in plug-in hybrid vehicle technologies;
- An increase in fuel efficiency standards to 55 miles per gallon by 2030, and $20 billion of “Green Vehicle Bonds” to help U.S. automakers retool their plants to meet the standards;
- A plan to catalyze a thriving green building industry by investing in green collar jobs and helping to modernize and retrofit 20 million low-income homes to make them more energy efficient;
- A new “Connie Mae” program to make it easier for low and middle-income Americans to buy green homes and invest in green home improvements;
- A requirement that all publicly traded companies report financial risks due to climate change in annual reports filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission; and
- Creation of a “National Energy Council” within the White House to ensure implementation of the plan across the Executive Branch.
- A requirement that all federal buildings designed after January 20, 2009 will be zero emissions buildings.

Long term, her plans are okay. I'm thinking more in short term rises. Releasing petroleum from resrves is a start. I also think Congress ought to take the bull by the horns and investigate now...And, do something concrete. I's say something like immediate price controls, but I know that's not fashionable these days.

http://obama.senate.gov/issues/energy/

Senator Obama believes that America must commit to a new national energy policy focused on improvements in technology, investments in renewable fuels such as wind and solar power, and greater efforts in conservation, efficiency, and waste reduction. Shifting from our current investment and consumption practices to this new direction will be one of the great leadership challenges in the coming decade.

With the Department of Energy telling us that U.S. demand for oil will jump 40% over the next 20 years and with countries like China and India adding millions of cars to their roads, the price of oil is approaching a breaking point.

Recognizing the importance of energy security to national and economic security, Senator Obama has proposed the creation of a Director of National Energy Security in the Office of the President. This position, akin to the National Security Advisor, would oversee and coordinate all administration efforts on national energy security and policies.
Renewable Fuels

Senator Obama is a leading advocate for increasing the use of renewable fuels to reduce our nation’s reliance on foreign petroleum. In 2005, he enacted into law a tax credit for installing E-85 ethanol refueling pumps at gas stations across the country.

In the 109th and 110th Congress, he joined with Senator Lugar to introduce the American Fuels Act to increase domestic production, distribution, and end uses of biofuels. Among other improvements, the American Fuels Act would expand the manufacture of ethanol-capable vehicles, offer tax credits to spur cellulosic fuel production, require clean-fueled transit buses bought with federal dollars, and provide incentives to ethanol plants to invest in E-85 blending equipment on their premises.

In January 2007, Senator Obama joined Senator Tom Harkin of Iowa in reintroducing the Biofuels Security Act, which calls for 60 billion gallons of renewable biofuels in the nation’s vehicle fuel supply by the year 2030. Senator Obama also authored legislation with Senator Cochran, the Alternative Diesel Standard, to require 2 billion gallons of alternative diesels - - including agriculture feedstocks such as biodiesel - - as part of the 40 billion gallon national diesel pool.

Given that major supermarket chains are expected to comprise 15% of the vehicle fuels market in the coming years, Senator Obama has also called upon the 14 largest supermarket and discount stores that sell gas to also install alternative fuel pumps.
Fuel Efficiency

As the author of the Fuel Economy Reform Act, Senator Obama has worked to gain bipartisan support for an innovative approach to raising automobile fuel efficiency standards (also known as “CAFE” standards) and break two decades of inaction and deadlock on reforming fuel economy laws. This proposal has attracted cosponsors from both parties – maintaining support from long-time champions of improving fuel economy standards while attracting support from traditional opponents. The bill would establish regular, continual, and incremental progress in miles per gallon fuel efficiency by an increase of four percent annually, and preserve flexibility by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to vary the rate of improvement and how best to technologically achieve those fuel economy targets. President Bush endorsed a similar approach in his State of the Union speech in January 2007.
Investing in New Technologies

Senator Obama introduced the “Health Care for Hybrids Act” to provide health care assistance to domestic automakers in exchange for their investing 50% of the savings into technology to produce more fuel-efficient vehicles. His proposal has been praised by President Bill Clinton, the University of Michigan’s auto research center, and numerous newspapers.

In May 2007, Senator Obama, along with Senator Harkin, authored the National Low Carbon Fuel Standard Act (S. 1324), which requires a 10% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions in the national transportation fuel pool by 2020, a reduction of about 180 million metric tons of emissions in 2020 – the equivalent of taking over 30 million cars off the road. The Obama-Harkin fuel standard embraces the growth of the renewable fuels market, including corn-based ethanol, cellulosic ethanol, and biodiesel as a key component of fighting climate change, while creating incentives for lower carbon emissions in their production.

Read Senator Obama’s Speech on the National Low Carbon Fuel Standard


Working to Lower High Gas Prices

Oil companies are enjoying record profits while consumers are suffering from record high gas prices. In the 110th Congress, Senator Obama has introduced the Oil SENSE Act to eliminate unnecessary tax breaks to the oil industry. A version of the bill was passed by House of Representatives in January 2007.

In the 109th Congress, Senator Obama sponsored legislation, the FILL UP Act, requiring oil companies that made at least $1 billion in profits in the first quarter of 2006 to invest at least 1% of the their total reported first quarter 2006 profits into installing E-85 pumps.

Senator Obama also worked with Congressman Rahm Emanuel to obtain several million dollars to establish the first ethanol-to-hydrogen refueling station for refueling Chicago natural gas bus fleets.

During the Ford administration U.S. automakers had until 1985 to have their passenger car fleet average 27 mpg. They mostly made that, but have made precious little progress since. We blame presidents, opec, and whoever else is handy, but we ourselves have done nothing to help. Instead, we buy SUV's with pickup frames and engines, we drive at breakneck speeds, gather in enormous bottlenecks on interstates with engines running, and then whine about the government not fixing the problem.

We will continue to purchase more and more even larger vehicles, while Europe and Japan already require autos to average in the 42 to 45 mpg range.

THEY cannot fix this - it must be US.

BTW, gasoline in Japan is around $20 gallon.

Hillary
NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.

YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.

YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.

YES on the Iraq War Resolution.

Hillary refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge




OBAMA
YES on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.

NO on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.

In response to the Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran Obama drafted legislation stating that Congress did not grant President Bush the authority to attack Iran, either through the Kyl-Lieberman amendment or any resolution previously adopted.

Not then in the Senate but took a public stand against the Iraq War Resolution

OBAMA signed the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge

or STFU