Wright's anti-female words enrage me.

He yelled about the white girl" Natalee Holloway "giving it up" in aruba and all the mainstream media covers for a months. It pissed him off because women are being raped in Darfur.

I, as a white woman, am upset about the women in Darfur. And, I am upset about Natalee Holloway. The violence against women in the world is a problem that needs to be addressed. Women's powerlessness in the world is part of the problem.

(Thus, this is one of the reasons I feel a female president is important )

His statements about Hillary Clinton were tacky and indicative of his hatred for women women that either challenge his choice for president or get attention in the media. (Have I heard him talk about violence against women in a constructive way? No, maybe he has.....)

Where is the 'Jesus love' in his words?

Obama's membership in this church is disgraceful.

the abduction and rape of white women over minorities. However, this does not give one license to give hostile attacks (seasoned with lack of compassion for a murdered woman) in a church of all places.

I could find it nowhere else.

Thanks.

Wright on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway: "Black women are being raped daily in Africa. One white girl from Alabama gets drunk at a graduation trip to Aruba, goes off and gives it up while in a foreign country and that stays in the news for months."
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977285439

Which shows I saw Wright rant on that, I don't remember, but it was on a few times.

that WorldNetDaily cited the "August 2005 edition of Trumpet Magazine, a publication of his Trinity United Church of Christ" as one source for the quote you mentioned. Even though WND is not a reliable source, it shouldn't be hard for any fact-checker to ascertain whether this quote really did or did not appear in Trumpet Magazine.

http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=5398333

How do I know you just didn't get that line from the World Net Daily article?

And I asked you to name the cable stations you saw it on.

Wright is bad news.

Wrights words and Obama's membership have sealed the deal for me on Obama. He needs to go.

Life didn't get better for women because Elizabeth I became Queen.

**

This is especially the case when women ascend to power through that most patriarchal of customs, nepotism. Why would it? Why would women who benefit from the status quo seek to change it?

indicative of the short shrift he gives to the issue of women's rights. In fact, when I have gone to Obama's website site to see "women's rights" as an issue (which it is for Democrats) I am hard pressed to find it. It is actually hidden away.

Whereas Hilary's is right out there. And, it is women's history month and Hillary has had entries in her blog by many different women talking about women's history.
The respect for women in Hillary's campaign shows.

I have fought for women's rights actively since 1980 and personally I am disgusted by this so-called reverend.

By the way, fellow progressives...who is Hillary's pastor? Hmmmmmm, I don't think she has one. Go Hillary, go progressive values, right on for the separation of church adn state!

So much for separation of church and state.

It's great that she's including that on her platform and I wish Barack would have a section on women's issues as well, especially since he's talked at length about the situation in Africa.

This is kind of OT for this thread, but one thing I did notice right off the bat is that many of Hillary's talking points seem to conflate "women" with "children" and "families" (though she does mention other things like reproductive freedom and economic opportunities). But there's this unspoken assumption that all women are mothers. As an unmarried and childfree-by-choice woman, that causes me to tune out her message. By no means is Hillary the only Democratic politician who does that. Barack does it a lot too, but I think his message resonates a little more with single childless adults and DINKs. That may account for demographic disparity in their supporters. I know it's why Obama's health care plan doesn't include mandates for adults. It would be an anathema to his many young and childless supporters, who would probably not get any subsidies for the premiums.

I just wish that the Democratic party would wake up and realize that there are millions of women out there who are not bothering to show up to vote, even though their reproductive freedom and economic security are in dire jeopardy, because all they hear about are womenandchildren womenandchildren families families families.... Single women vote Democratic by a ratio of 60:40, whereas married women are more 45:50. Imagine if a few million more of them turned up at the polls in 2004? Sorry for straying but I had to express that.

We're not worth much to you until you want to dip into our pockets to subsidize your family. That's when that whole "it takes a village" concept kicks in. I learned that lesson well back in the '90s when Bill Clinton decided to give parents a generous tax credit while reducing my tax bill not one bit. He then went on and blathered about how he "lowered the taxes of middle class Americans". Um, not all of us, Bill. And Hillary's mandatory health plan follows the same model. She talks about how families will get subsidies. Not individuals. Families. When she talks about those "young people who think they are invincible" and of the need to garnish our wages, we non-parents brace ourselves. There will be no subsidies for us. She talks about how only people who can "afford" the full premiums will have to pay them. Wonder who those people will be? We know.

But hey, thanks for your honesty! :hi:

discrimination in his overall presentation. Actually, I can't think when I've ever heard him include it up front.

Right on the front page is a link to Women's History Month. And if you go under the "People" menu (you know, women ARE people) there is a link to Women for Obama.

RadFemFL
A Feminist who is tired of Hillary supporters saying Obama isn't for women's rights.

We are discussing here and now. I think the challenge is just that.

and yes, powerlessness still exists, misogyny is overlooked and people are not afraid to admit they do not regard women as leaders....

and women are pissed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i was at Costco and had my Hillary button on and women 45 plus stopped to talk to me about Hillary... tired of being treated like crap! tired of hearing Hillary trashed publicly and Obama given easy street... one woman said she wasn't sure our country was ready for a female president and a man about 30 walked by and said he was not!

If we were black and discussing if America was ready for black president, no one would use that tone publicly!

according to Wright anyway. There are several national womens groups up in arms over this one.

Well, you have to figure, he's been listening to that guy's shit for 20 years and can't fully repudiate the man and what he stands for.

so we do not "ask for it"

and then he might be just right for President. He blew it.

And buy some new pom poms.

The real issue is Hillary has lost. Get Over It.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Especially with children in the congregation.

of human decency even...the things he said about Natalie Holloway and his gyrations from the pulpit.

GROTESQUE.

I seriously question the values of anyone who accepts or appreciates it.

I don't think he can cut 20 years from his life.

Is also a term that refers to death. Crack open a Bible some time. Acts 12:23. "Give up the ghost' is one of the oldest euphemisms there is.

Right...

n/t

"One 18-year-old white girl from Alabama gets drunk on a graduation trip to Aruba, goes off and 'gives it up' while in a foreign country, and that stays in the news for months!" he added. "Maybe I am missing something!"

That is the quote. The term used is vague and open to interpretation. Those whose imaginations venture towards the salacious, hear something completely different than those whose minds do not.

In other words, "You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear."
- R.I.P. Harry Nilsson

It's pretty damned obvious he meant sex and not death. The man is appalling.

I think it's pretty clear that he is making a disrepectful reference towards this girl.
Now, I'm not saying that I wasn't also sick of the constant Natalie Holloway coverage. I was. But there's a way you make a point, and there's a way you don't. His TONE is disrespectful. If you want to say, "This young girl's death is tragic, but so are the deaths of so many others. Why is it that we hear so much about hers, but so little about others?" That puts the blame where it belongs -- on the media -- without making a slur against the girl. You can take the high road, or the low road. He took the low.

n/t

Well, I've seen it all :)

Sex is a good thing and I use the term "slut" proudly because I think the word is ridiculous. I don't pretend to be some feminist who supports only those women that act like ladies. I don't pretend to have some sort of moral authority over others.

Oh, sweety. How do you manage to twist logic so well?

He is a pervert.

He clearly hates women, even though he tried to make black women think he only hates white women.

Can you predict winning lottery numbers too?

And I don't think you do either. But you knew that already.

Bake

His family must become a member of (your favorite church)!

(Screw the submariner vote, I say!!!1111)

of church and state.

Hypocrite much? Read the constitution ever?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_religious_test_clause

prove it.

or GO AWAY and take your straw men, and empty hollow rhetoric with you.

let's move on

they decry sexism while utilizing racism. :eyes:

I'm voting for Obama. :)

this whole "guilt by association" thing is very dangerous.

Look at the Catholic Church's pedophile problem. Does that make every Catholic pro-child molestation??? Hell no it doesn't.

This could cost him female votes

8.5% at least in Mississippi that he could have gotten like Hillary!

They provide no sourcing.

Unless they have (again) been removed by YouTube, you will see and hear what the OP posted. The church, by the way, recorded and sold recordings of the services, including these.

If Clinton had for 20 years attended the church where the woman pastor had said anything close to the equivalent of what Wright said, in racist rather than misogynist language, Clinton's campaign would be over.

Next time back up your claims, a simple link would have worked. Searching for "Wright Holloway" found nothing. As did "Wright 'giving it up'".

Nothing seems to be out there at all that backs up the OP's claims. There's a World Net Daily (uber-conservative and questionable source) article and that is it.

removed the videos and there was a possibility that after someone posted them again, that YouTube did the same thing. As I am sure you are aware, YouTube often pulls videos for a variety of reasons, including copyright reasons - you've probably tried to view some clips from TV shows and found that they said "removed due to copyright restrictions" or something like that. Sorry, I can't control YouTube for you.

I heard and saw the videos myself as did other people, before they were removed. I didn't believe them until I heard them either. I know you don't want to believe it, but what the OP said is true. CNN showed a portion of them this AM but they bleeped certain parts and didn't show others, including the gyration of hips while talking about what Bill Clinton allegedly did.

Since the church sells these videos, maybe you can contact Trinity and ask to buy a copy of each of them. The misogynist comments re: Clinton occurred on Christmas, 2007, according to CNN.

On edit - I just went to YouTube and had no difficulty finding the segment dealing with Clinton by searching for "Wright Clinton." Why is it so difficult for you to find it?

Which don't seem to be anywhere or anywhere in the news except for an extremely conservative website. This Holloway thing seems made up.

There's nothing in what he said about Clinton that indicates any sort of hatred of women, so I don't consider that a big issue. He does seem a bit ignorant on the realities of sexism, but that doesn't make him sexist -- it's certainly not quite as bad as what Ferraro said (he didn't imply her being a woman was an advantage). What was misogynist there?

what he said at all in your post, where did you get the idea of "Natalie Holloway"? I heard that clip, and all he said was white girl, he could have been talking about anyone. It still doesn't make what he said right, but let's not bring Natalie into this.

Yes the word he used for Hillary was horrible, although I do understand the point he was trying to make. It has to be awful to be in someone's shoes like that and called that vile name. Until you've been called that, you can't know how they feel.

Obama said, had he heard those statements he would have been shocked too, however he decided that since he retired, there was no reason to leave the church.
Obama also apologized for the disgusting comment made on his opponent, meaning Hillary.

What else should he do? He has condemned, repudiated and rejected his comments. He no longer has a role on the African American Society group that the campaign consulted. Obama did the right thing, but for some people its never enough. I admire him greatly for standing up to the divisive words, and taking up for Hillary too. That's character.

The pastors words were wrong! But Obama shouldn't be blamed for something his preacher said. If we all were blamed for something somebody we knew said, this world would be a sad place.

This is more like what Obama heard all those years:

http://www.preachingtoday.com/sermons/sermons/audacityofhope.html


Yesterday in Indiana

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FsqDTVmlKk&feature=user Obama isn't running from the swiftboat, like some of our past candidates have.

Do you know of many other white girls who have gone to Aruba and got a lot of media attention when they went missing?

Aruba, I'll have to listen again.

Either way it's wrong

My point of my post still remains.

K&R!

:rofl:

Nice try. Won't work. To paraphrase Gerry the Great, Hillary is very lucky to be a woman because she wouldn't be where she is were it not for her husband.

Each time over 20 years he happened to be missing. :sarcasm:

I agree with you. Wright is a racist, sexist, and a nut. He is radioactive and a rethug dream come true for swiftboating Obama in the general if we decide to hand them the election by nominating Obama.

There are definitely several racists, as well as sexists in Congress and in gubernatorial mansions but they all know it is politically idiotic to publicly associate with such an entity. The only other one I can think of is Trent Lott, whose uncle was on the organization's executive board. He gave the exact "I didn't know! (even though I was close to the organization and a leader of it)" excuse Obama is using.

Or dancing in the aisles!

I told my husband I was afraid that he couldn't even be in the VP slot after this.

They'll murder us with it.

I've been really upset.


I want to know from the leaders of this party HOW they let this go by? And why did the media let it go for so long too?

It stinks.

I made a post on it below. This might be a concern troll, but I am not sure.

I remember at the time there was lots of death in Iraq but it becaam e the Aruba news. To divide people from blacks and the real issues.

im not commenting on the pastors comments because i dont know what they are and what you posted doesnt really sound sexist, but if hes a practicing "christian" then i wouldnt be surprised.

I'm not shocked.

Time to start figuring out how to deal with that fact, instead of throwing irrelevant bullshit (like someone else's quotes) at the guy.

I couldn't find it anywhere else.

on womens' issues? How about their disgraceful (if not an outright international criminal conspiracy) record regarding helping known pedophiles escape law enforcement?

Frankly, I'd like to see a day when we don't give a shit about what "church" our candidates belong or don't belong to. Until then, though, Obama is responsible for his OWN words. Period.

If Wright himself runs for something, I'll be sure to consider any asinine statements he's made as relevant.

Not his pastor's words, not his gardener's, not the dude who installed his cable...

period. End of fucking story.

Like sleep in.

But if the Pope is going to engage in criminal conspiracy to help child molesters escape justice, where is the outrage at all our Catholic politicians?

I'll say it again-
THE MAN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS OWN WORDS.

If you've got a problem with something Barack Obama has said, fine. But unless he is an extremely talented ventriloquist, what other people do with their mouths isn't Barack Obama's responsibility.

Oh, and he may be weak, but he's also winning.

Which is, I suspect, what you're really mad about.

I get so sick of the lies told in this forum about Wright, by those who don't do the tiniest bit of research, and willfully misunderstand what he is talking about.

You should read this entire excellent article and actually learn something about his church.

http://www.ucc.org/news/chicagos-trinity-ucc-is.html

"There have been two major sins in the Black church that many Black churches will not address – homophobia is one and sexism is another," Samuel says, "and Jeremiah Wright has been one of the articulate, courageous voices that has not been afraid to address these critical issues. If he can do that and still maintain his close connectivity to the Black community, and stay grounded in the Black ethos, that's what has inspired me."

And another thing, leaving that church would do no good. Staying and having an influence might.

Obama may not even have been there that Sunday.

This is ridiculous. We should be finding out where McBush goes to church and going through that pastor's every word with a fine tooth comb.

Totally different situation

Holloway's fate was tragic but hardly deserving of all the coverage it got. And that is all Wright was saying. You are reading into it more than he said and you are wrong to do so.

Really, that doesn't seem like a good source.

That said, I don't disagree with his point -- we should pay more attention to atrocities committed all over the globe.

:sarcasm:

...we just decided to let you little ladies vote less than 90 years ago, don't go getting all uppity now. Geez, ya give 'em an inch...

:sarcasm:

were ignored, you wouldn't give a crap. Him talking about Halloway had nothing to do with her being a woman. If it had been a male celebrity, male victim, whatever, he would've made the same point.

He was talking about black women being raped.
And he didn't say she was murdered. He was talking about her giving it up in Aruba.
Do you seriously believe that it had nothing to do with Natalee being a woman in that context?

Any fool could see his point, which was that the media goes crazy over one white girl's disappearance, while ignoring the rape and murder of thousands of black girls in Darfur. Exactly how is that anti-female? You are just trying to keep this non-story going for your own twisted ends, and it is sick.

Is she responsible for the media attention? Does she care about the media attention now that she is dead? And he didn't say she went missing. He said she was giving it up.
I guess you see nothing wrong with that, do you?

Nobody is questioning his underlying point.

Nobody.

Anywhere.

His comment was overtly sexist in a disgusting way. It was cruel and willfully racially hateful.

You are defending the indefensible.

...and I don't see how these words are worse than those words.

Wright's anti-white rantings were so disgusting. Maybe Ferraro should respond to Wright that black people gave AIDS to white, you know, to put things on the exact same level on which Wright is operating.
:sarcasm:

Bill Clinton used race-baiting personally ~ but I suspect the Clintonites aren't "enraged" over that.

about how the cute blond white woman gets extensive media attention for months on end, while others don't.

:shrug:

The question is not whether missing white girls get obsessive media coverage.

The question is whether it advances that argument to minimize the Holloway story by saying she was a tramp.

Since the corpse of Natalie Holloway is probably not working as the program director at CNN, it's a vile, indefensible thing to say, and said to encourage contempt of some murder victim (and/or rape victim) because she's white.

This is one of those issues with exactly one side that really brings the worms out of the dirt. Nobody can defend what he said. It's actually indefensible.

It was straight up hate for the sake of hate.

We all know racists and we all know how they think... they can't tell a story about a black person without throwing in gratuitous little negative characterizations and slurs based on race that have nothing to do with what's being discussed... it's almost like a nervous tic.

Those who do aren't liberals.

He really respected Hillary, countless affairs,
Obama only listned to the Reverend
Hillary stayed with her misogynist husband
yeah Bill showed a lot of respect for women
the real reason your upset because you want a women president, you know Hillary is not liberal, just pretend
take a look who is a member of that Christain fellowship along with Hillary,
how about Sam Brownback and Ricky santorium
its lead by Antiabortion leaders
how bout them apples
since all this guilt by association Hillary has shown poor judgement by hanging with Bill

Big difference.

I'm a white 52-yr old woman, and I'm not upset about Natalee H. She got way more than her 15 minutes when so many young black women suffered similar fates and the m$m never covered them. I do believe that's what he was getting at. And Darfur? That is a gross injustice that might have been addressed if we were ignorant of Iraq. Maybe not with the dim one, but there could be a slice of hope.

As for the right Rev. Wright, what was said was said by him, not Obama. I have lots of people in my life I don't agree with but still care about. If you don't, your realm must be small.

Vote for who you want, but please, if you're a thinking person, educate yourself to both sides.

Not a member of the church, or even a church-goer, but my wife has been a member for over 20 years. We were married by Wright year before last.

I shake my head in disappointment at some of the things that Wright has said. But this anti-woman thing is flat-out false.

My wife's mother was recently made a deacon in the church. And women in the pulpit is the acid-test for sexism in churches--black and white.

But especially black. And there are women in positions of authority all over TUCC. I should know, we get the monthly newsletter.

But it's not just that, ask yourself if a Michelle Obama (and I'll ask myself if my "feminazi" wife) would belong to a sexist church. Where would she fit in a church like that?

In fact, it's hard to pull anti-woman sentiment out of the Holloway comment. It's crude. Insensitive. But I see it as a swipe at an American news media that is more interested with the fate of one white woman on vacation than the fate of hundreds or thousands of black women in Darfur.

Now maybe you don't buy that. Maybe you don't care. Maybe you don't think that the women of Darfur should be any of the media's concern. But do you honestly believe that the statement is sexist? And for the record, Holloway was, what, 18 years old when she disappeared? I remember much being made of such a young "girl" disappearing. Do a Google news search for "natalee holloway and girl" and see how many hits you get.

This sexism thing just doesn't fit.

he sees most things in terms of race. He seems to not like white people too much, especially rich white people. He blames them for many things.

I'm disgusted that any pastor would say Natalee Holloway, or any woman, was "giving it up" when in fact she was probably raped and definitely murdered. It's like he's saying she deserved it. But he would never say that if she had been black. So he was sexist and hateful towards Natalee Holloway, but it's more to do with Holloway being white and rich, than with her being a woman. He apparently has a pervasive dislike of rich white people, and he will employ sexism against a wealthy white woman who was murdered (and basically call her a slut), because it suits his agenda. And this is Obama's mentor and adviser.

about Wright's "sermon" is that he called Holloway a slut and implied that she deserved to be murdered, but the women of Darfur are innocent and do not deserve to be raped. No woman deserves to be raped or murdered, but Wright hatefully implied that Holloway did. That kind of language is despicable.

does insinuating a murdered girl is a slut enhance his cause about the MWG syndrome?

"Wright's anti-female words enrage me."

You can't be enraged and type anti-female at the same time. But you do get points for trying to connect some fairly distant dots.

Because this board really hates the "missing white girl" media bump just like Wright does.

The Pope said that women can't be priests because they do not physically resemble Jesus.

Meaning they don't have pricks.

Women are second class citizens in the Catholic Church. Should we not have voted for John Kerry because of that?

This is a ridiculous controversy. And, in any case, Rev. Wright didn't SAY anything against women. He was talking about an entirely different issue, which is that the rapes and deaths of black women are not covered in the news--while those of white women get headlines for weeks. And it's TRUE!

You are deliberately misunderstanding what he said. And I don't think you "as a white woman" (and I'm one, too) can fully understand what it means to be black and invisible.

:puke:

k&r!!

but this "pastor" sickens me, on several levels. It's won't change my (likely) vote for O, but I bet it will change a lot of other people's votes. :-(

If rev Wright's words tear you up so bad, don't vote for him.

Ohhh, he's not running for anything.

It may play well to get a congregation all stirred up with hate to get them to vote for your candidate, and I think that was his intention. What gets me about this guy is that he doesnt acknowledge the struggles women went through and if left to his logic, women should hate all men because they denied them rights, at one time. He doesnt acknowledge whites being part of the civil rights movement, either .

Case in point....43 years ago this week Andrew Goodman & Michael Schwerner & James Chaney, 2 white men & one black man visciously murdered in Mississippi during Freedom Summer trying to register black voters. Or the thousands of others, both white and black who fought for civil rights and marched with Dr King.

Or Viola Gregg Liuzzo, a 39 year old , mother of five, civil rights activist murdered in 1965. Does Wright know what she was called? Wasn't just the "N" word, "lover" was added it to it.


Listening to Wright, you would think there has never been any progress in civil rights. No 1964 Civil Rights Act, no desegregation, no Affirmative Action. No black lawyers, doctors, judges, professors, politicans or Supreme Court Justice.

Katrina was despicable, but where were Wright and Obama and Oprah during this? Was he happy with Condi Rice's actions?


We got this far, by people black and white working together. People like Wright seek to divide more than unite and that's just too bad.

the apple doesn't fall far from the tree

want a woman president, regardless of qualification or any other factor.

.

Every time I see that one clip, where he goes on and on about how Hillary hasn't had to experience this or that, I want to just scream. When I think about the slurs and insults that have been hurled in this woman's way directly, SIMPLY because she is a woman, I get physically ill. No, she hasn't been called the N word -- but she has been called the B word, and the C word, and L word -- simply because she's a bright, assertive, educated woman who hasn't felt the need to smile her way reassuringly through every conversation or speech she's ever made. No, she hasn't had to fear lynching, but she has had to fear rape and battery simply because of her gender. I don't care if she was raised on the North side or the South side -- those are universal truths if you're a woman in America.

And once again, I want to know how Obama could sit in that pew for 20 years and not be repulsed by this man's rhetoric -- so repulsed that he would get up, and walk out. Hell, I'll get up and walk out on a freakin' MOVIE if it offends me. And he's been giving this church his money for 20 years?

abandoned as a child...never mentions his dad as black. He mentions being raised by a single parent...never mentions his single parent mother as being white. It seems pastor Wright has a greater problem affixing proportional truth to the matters he preaches from his pulpit. Assigning blame where it also resides; while withholding praise where it belongs. And all along racial lines.

is because it smears Obama.

You're a phony.

:eyes:

:applause: :applause: :applause: