Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

THE BLACK VALUE SYSTEM

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:31 AM
Original message
THE BLACK VALUE SYSTEM
THE BLACK VALUE SYSTEM
https://www.tucc.org/black_value_system.html
These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They consist of the following concepts:

1. Commitment to God. “The God of our weary years” will give us the strength to give up prayerful passivism and become Black Christian Activists, soldiers for Black freedom and the dignity of all humankind.

2. Commitment to the Black Community. The highest level of achievement for any Black person must be a contribution of strength and continuity of the Black Community.

3. Commitment to the Black Family. The Black family circle must generate strength, stability and love, despite the uncertainty of externals, because these characteristics are required if the developing person is to withstand warping by our racist competitive society.

Those Blacks who are blessed with membership in a strong family unit must reach out and expand that blessing to the less fortunate.

4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education. We must forswear anti-intellectualism. Continued survival demands that each Black person be developed to the utmost of his/her mental potential despite the inadequacies of the formal education process. “Real education” fosters understanding of ourselves as well as every aspect of our environment. Also, it develops within us the ability to fashion concepts and tools for better utilization of our resources, and more effective solutions to our problems. Since the majority of Blacks have been denied such learning, Black Education must include elements that produce high school graduates with marketable skills, a trade or qualifications for apprenticeships, or proper preparation for college.

Basic education for all Blacks should include Mathematics, Science, Logic, General Semantics, Participative Politics, Economics and Finance, and the Care and Nurture of Black minds.

5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence. To the extent that we individually reach for, even strain for excellence, we increase, geometrically, the value and resourcefulness of the Black Community. We must recognize the relativity of one’s best; this year’s best can be bettered next year. Such is the language of growth and development. We must seek to excel in every endeavor.

6. Adherence to the Black Work Ethic. “It is becoming harder to find qualified people to work in Chicago.” Whether this is true or not, it represents one of the many reasons given by businesses and industries for deserting the Chicago area. We must realize that a location with good facilities, adequate transportation and a reputation for producing skilled workers will attract industry. We are in competition with other cities, states and nations for jobs. High productivity must be a goal of the Black workforce.

7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect. To accomplish anything worthwhile requires self-discipline. We must be a community of self-disciplined persons if we are to actualize and utilize our own human resources, instead of perpetually submitting to exploitation by others. Self-discipline, coupled with a respect for self, will enable each of us to be an instrument of Black Progress and a model for Black Youth.

8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness.” Classic methodology on control of captives teaches that captors must be able to identify the “talented tenth” of those subjugated, especially those who show promise of providing the kind of leadership that might threaten the captor’s control.

Those so identified are separated from the rest of the people by:

1 Killing them off directly, and/or fostering a social system that encourages them to kill off one another.
2 Placing them in concentration camps, and/or structuring an economic environment that induces captive youth to fill the jails and prisons.
3 Seducing them into a socioeconomic class system which, while training them to earn more dollars, hypnotizes them into believing they are better than others and teaches them to think in terms of “we” and “they” instead of “us.”
4 So, while it is permissible to chase “middleclassness” with all our might, we must avoid the third separation method – the psychological entrapment of Black “middleclassness.” If we avoid this snare, we will also diminish our “voluntary” contributions to methods A and B. And more importantly, Black people no longer will be deprived of their birthright: the leadership, resourcefulness and example of their own talented persons.

9. Pledge to Make the Fruits of All Developing and Acquired Skills Available to the Black Community.

10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions.

11. Pledge Allegiance to All Black Leadership Who Espouse and Embrace the Black Value System.

12. Personal Commitment to Embracement of the Black Value System. To measure the worth and validity of all activity in terms of positive contributions to the general welfare of the Black Community and the Advancement of Black People towards freedom.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. Apparently no one else is brave enough so I'll jump in
Seems like a pretty good plan for the human community to follow.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
easy_b94 Donating Member (548 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I agree when black people do better America dose better
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. Maybe I'm not understanding but
I have never heard of Black Ethics and White Ethics. I took an ethics class in college but they didn't differentiate between ethics color. It sounds to me like a separatist racism. Just my opinion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MaryCeleste Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. Would you feel the same way if white was substituted for black in that?
Single race/ethnicity vision and politics, regards of group is not healthy for the nation as a whole
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. People weren't lynched for decades in the name of black pride
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MaryCeleste Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. So evils of the past provide justify more evil today?
Edited on Tue Mar-18-08 11:36 PM by MaryCeleste
That does not wash...racism is racism, regardless of who is doing it.

Rev Wright may have been an exception, African American churches are mostly hostile to GLBTs of their own race. Never ceases to amaze me that a group that has suffered historical discrimination practices it today on others.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
3. 11. Pledge Allegiance to All Black Leadership Who Espouse and Embrace the Black Value System.
Does that mean Obama has pledged allegiance to Pastor Wright?
If so, why did Obama decide to dismiss Pastor Wright instead of defending him?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Actually, I'm one of the few who said Obama should support and defend Pastor Wright.
Because idiots like you demand that he does
Posted by shadowknows69

Thanks for your thoughtful response.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Nice try, maybe you have said that
But the only reason you would is somehow to further your Hillary zealotry. I've seen your posts on here, you're very consistent, so spare me.

For the record I feel Obama should have told the whole country to stuff it about Pastor Wright. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Alas that's not how you win this bullshit game of manufactured public opinion. TIme will tell if he made the right choice. I'm not so sure.








Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Why would Obama pander to idiots?
I thought he was looking to rise above, and raise the level of discourse. :shrug:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
5. so?
?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Guess he was just putting it out there
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
7. Change the word Black to White..........
and you pretty much get the KKK philosophy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. I don't think the Klan uses this phrase in their literature
"...dignity of all humankind."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. I don't know if they do or not
I have only read about them via the Southern Poverty Law Center. They might use it if they wanted to sound........you know........."clean." According to SPLC, lots of those hates groups like to sound really nice and clean in their philosophies. Their actions of course, say different.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. So, you slander this church by an unsupported comparison to the Klan?
How sleazy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Has the Trinity Church of Christ done anything to suggest that they are a hate group?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MaryCeleste Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. African centric social gospel is percieved as racist by many
I use the substitution test myself.

I have no problem with a group that says:
- buy local
- spend local
- work with your neighbors to improve things

I do have a problem with those that say
- only buy from our group
- only spend with our group
- only work with our group to improve our group

If the former is in an all black neighborhood, thats still fine with me. The latter is an issue, regardless of the neighborhood and group saying it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #34
47. My only point is that the KKK comparison is not valid
If you listen to my grandmother at the dinner table she will utter things that many would consider racist. But she doesn't go around intimidating or killing black people.

Saying that their African centric gospel is wrong is a perfectly legitimate position. Saying it is comparable to the KKK is not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MaryCeleste Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. Agreed, there have been some hate groups that claimed they were churches
Edited on Wed Mar-19-08 03:09 AM by MaryCeleste
cults more like it. Some are still around today. SPLC has some listed
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I think there are some very significant differences
the first being that blacks have been and still are, an oppressed minority in a white dominant culture. But having said that, there's definitely some stuff in there that I think is not helpful. Having said that, it's grotesque to compare it with the KKK.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Change black to white and white people would have been slaves in America
and the victims of Jim Crow, lynching, black codes, legalized discrimination and all manner of other evils inflicted on black folks throughout American history. And if that had occurred to white people, it would make perfect sense for them to have a "white value system" to help lift them up from the position they were forced into.

But that didn't happen, so it's pretty silly to try to analyze this with a simplistic "change black to white" approach. If you're going to change black to white in this document, you have to first change black to white in every other aspect of American history and experience. Otherwise, you're just engaging in race-baiting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MaryCeleste Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. Nonsense
If that code is acceptable today, it should be acceptable for all ethnic groups. Put black, white, brown, or anything else in there. If after that you can live with it, then push it forward.

Racism even by minorities is still racism. The code as laid out is a classic attempt to institutionalize racial preference. I would hope all of us are beyond that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Yea, but the Rodney King riots even all of that out...
Just ask Rush Limbaugh.

:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MaryCeleste Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. The LA riots really set things right for African Americans
Parts of the city are yet to recover from them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. Which captor controls white Americans? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
8. I don't like #1 and #11.
I don't think anyone should "pledge allegiance" to any individual.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. Surely not blindly
Edited on Tue Mar-18-08 09:04 AM by shadowknows69
Really though it's no different than our military oaths. There always needs to be a loophole in case your leader goes batshit crazy though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Do we pledge allegiance to the constitution and country or an individual?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
17. What exactly makes this value system "Black"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. I think just the word black
It should be the "human family" value system. Then the captors become The Corporation, and we can all work together to defeat it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
28. I think the TUCC has changed it's Black Value System on there web site
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't they change the Value System among those black ethics are commitment to the black community, commitment to the black family, disavowal the pursuit of middleclassness" and other things similar to these?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MaryCeleste Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. There has been some claims of modification to hide some things
The way back machine will show what it used to be, if anyone really cares
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
31. Sitting here from my position of white privilege
I don't feel threatened by this at all. Curious, yes. Threatened, no.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
33. Seems like a pretty cool ethic to me.
Of course, there are the folks who'd like to scream: "It would be racist if whites did this!"

Oh, really? You don't think, that, oh, maybe that's ALREADY PART OF THE PROBLEM, and black churches realized that they needed to use their social networks and ethnic pride to do the same thing as the "whites" were already doing?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MaryCeleste Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Outside of groups already on the SPLC watch list
can you name a white or Asian church that pushes such a race centric agenda. There is some of that claimed in Mormonism, but its not race based.

Substitution is your friend here and in math
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. They don't have to push it as "race centric". It's part of the church.
Aside from the rare church of many races, the sad thing is that many, if not most, individual churches are already dominated by one ethnicity or another.

As far as the LDS thing goes, my father was on the PR team to change that. Literally. (Seems they discovered "one drop" racism doesn't work so well in Brazil.)

Getting back to your point, I'm sure the white members of TUCC don't mind giving back to the black community, that's kind of the whole point. If you're white, black, brown, green, whatever, part of the church is to serve a community still breaking the shackles of 400 years of hell. That's a lot of lost time, and trying to fix it doesn't make acknowledging the problem a "racist" thing to do.

Is this woman a racist?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-JNYmqkbMk
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MaryCeleste Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #37
42. But they clearly do
When we did the church thing, they were mostly multi racial. Heavily dominated one way or the other would have been an exception. I loved local churches working on local problems, but it was never couched in racial terms.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrbluto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #33
50. Where is this "Whites" group? How do I join?
They seem to run everything from what I'm hearing and their group has all these incredible perks.

Me? I check off "caucasian" on all the forms, but no one has let me know about my membership in this vast cabal.

Wait, are you talking about the rich motherf*ckers who run everything?

The ones that called my Italian greatgrand father WOP and Greaser way back when?

Man, that group of evil f*cks is only slightly less trouble to me than it is to the average african american in my same social class.

I get the whole DWB thing and have met some nauseating racists - it's especially disgusting when they start sidling up to me and sharing their views that "we share the same problem with 'these' people." (Whatever non-white race they're picking on that day.)

But that just shows how gullible they are - and how divided they'd (the powers that be) like all of us to be.

Anything to avoid discussion of class.

And there's a considerable swath of african americans who fall for it too.

This bugs me. Organized instances of this really bugs me. Whatever race, creed, or ethnicity is falling for it.

When any group starts defining itself in opposition to the nation I lose sympathy very quickly. Religion, race, whatever. There's a Mormon splinter sect out in Utah that thinks it's a good idea to "bleed the beast" (our government) by gaming every sort of public service there is via polygamy tax dodges and forgery and what not. Most of the money trickles up to some religious leader.There's a bunch of people who yammer about what a "christian nation" we are and try to take my agnostic tax money to push their personal dogma. This is not a recipe for making people happy about paying their taxes in the long run. Most Red States get more federal money than they pay into the system - they get subsidized by Blue states, then call the Blue states decadent and beat their chests about getting government off their backs. How does that make you feel?

Me? That's when I start thinking we should start giving people a definitive choice, some sort of program that makes it practical to actually pose the choice (once one is 18). This nation: In or Out?

Then the type of problem Rev. Wright presents would be very simple.

"Rev. Wright you have a choice, this check (your share of the country, as if it were a corporate entity) and our best effort to repatriate you to what ever country will accept you, Or not and continue as a citizen. You don't even have to leave - we'll give you a resident visa. Just make it clear to us - does this government have your consent or not?"

I think it would be a good idea to make this offer to everyone. It would make things a lot clearer. I think the results would be very interesting because the offer wouldn't just be made to Rev. Wright, it'd be made to Cheney and Bush, those milita guys in Nebraska, corporate executives that hide their money in the Caymen Islands, and a whole host of other people who (IMHO) don't really believe in democracy, or this country. They see this country as a turkey to get carved to their profit and damn the waste. Right now they can tell themselves that their circumventions of the law are in the country's best interests and they have to "work with the country they have" since there's not much choice. This is how they rationalize the lies and cheating and utter disregard for the spirit of the constitution and bill of rights. Once they have, once anyone has, a choice to accept, or decline, then they wouldn't have that excuse any longer.

I'd basically like to say "love it or leave it". Not in a jingoistic ploy to make them leave, but in a sincere effort to make it clear that, in their hearts, they've left already.




Absolutely impractical of course and fraught with a zillion possibilities for abuse and prejudice, but still an interesting thought experiment.

What if you could just "cash out"?

Would you stay? Leave? What conditions would you demand? Or most people demand?

Who might we offer extra to leave? (I'd be tempted to induce a few annoying libertarians at the local cafe to vote with their feet.)

Who might we offer extra to stay? (Ireland gives tax breaks to authors and artists, Britain practically drives them out once they make over a certain amount. Japan gives stipends to "national treasures")

I'm sure this post will get picked apart and cast as un-PC, but anyway - food for thought.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Slagathor Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
36. That's really racist
it's divisive and, quite frankly, intellectually deficient, silly stuff. Like something an angst ridden teen would pen after smoking a mediocre spliff.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Is your degree in Liberation Theology? eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. You sound overly familiar with angst ridden teens and spliffs.
Though I suspect one of those would type something better than you just did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Slagathor Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. ha ha ha yuo = teh smart
no, really. I admire you for your keen insight and tremendous wisdom.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
41. Does anyone here know know what Chicago is going through?
Edited on Wed Mar-19-08 01:17 AM by Truth Hurts A Lot
I lived there very briefly, and during that time I learned that the high school drop out rate among black students in the poorest areas was around 90%. NINETY PERCENT. Again... that means, for every 10 students who attend high school, only one of those students will actually graduate.

That was over 10 years ago, and I hope that things have changed for the better, especially with the tearing down of certain projects.

Anyway, my point is that the message might come across as strange and separatist at first glance, but I fully support that list (although this is my first time seeing it). WHATEVER IT TAKES to help the worst off communities to organize, improve, and increase collective self esteem. WHAT IS YOUR SOLUTION?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. It's sad to me that seeing a community put arms around itself
looks like a bad thing to so many people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goletian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
43. guess what, this is old news fox did to death, and it didnt stick... nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MaryCeleste Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. I hope so, but I am afeared that some damage was done
Don't forget the Tom Bradley effect as well
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goletian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. nah, the only people that will cling to this crap are those who wouldnt vote obama anyway. - nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MaryCeleste Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. Lets hope so
I'm not a Hilbot, and believe things will be close regardless of who we choose. Anything that can be used will be used by the repukes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun May 05th 2024, 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC