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Smelting Pot Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:58 AM
Original message
Rev. Wright: Burden of Proof
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 12:26 PM by Smelting Pot
If you are sick of all the bullshit surrounding this issue, please ignore this post.

However, if like me, you are sick of the fact that it is still "harming" Obama in some corners because the media is allowing an unfair, one-sided attack to continue, please read on.

Now, I don't consider myself a political genius, but it is obvious that the right wing voices in our media are still trying to "paint Obama with the Rev. Wright brush." We have all heard the argument: how could Barack sit in that church and listen to this hateful, racist preacher for twenty years?

A couple of responses come to mind. 1: He WASN'T THERE. As he has stated many times, the comments made by Rev. Wright in the clips being played by the media were things that Obama had not heard from Wright before. Either you can believe that Obama is a bald-faced liar, or you can believe that Barack is telling the truth and this was the first time he heard THOSE STATEMENTS. Obama admits that he has disagreed with Wright on some of the OTHER controversial things that he personally heard, but these statements are ones that were new to Barack. I can hear the line now, "BULLSHIT! Of course Obama knew that Wright said those things! I mean, he was so close to him!" And my reply is: PROVE IT. Prove that Obama knew about these sermons and had heard these SPECIFIC STATEMENTS before now. There are YEARS of Rev. Wright sermons on videotape. Find Obama in a pew, listening to a "hate-filled" sermon and end his candidacy. Until you do, YOU ARE MAKING AN ACCUSATION THAT HAS NO BASIS IN ANY FACTS!

Which brings me to answer 2: If you are going to denigrate a good man's name and drag him through the mud for "twenty years of racist, hate-filled, angry sermons," you had better have more proof than two or three snippets from a LIFETIME of PUBLIC SPEAKING! Honestly, there are hundreds of hours of Rev. Wright sermons and speeches out there, and if there was more than the miniscule amount of "hate-filled, anti-American" in his entire body of work, we would have seen more by now. Hell, Hannity alone would have made it a regular part of his show with a new soundbite every night! So, I think we can put to bed the idea that Rev. Wright was somehow a "hate-America-first" bigot.

Now , none of this gets into the actualities of what Wright said. To go down that road, which is what many pundits have tried to do, attempting to explain to offended Americans, is a losing proposition. It also misses the point: Barack Obama wasn't there and didn't hear these things from Rev. Wright, AND there is no proof that Rev. Wright is anything like the caricature the media has made him out to be. Those should be the talking points along with two simple words:

PROVE IT!

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Nitrogenica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. If they want to play "guilt by association", we can win that game.
The Republican party has nothing to be proud of concerning "guilt by association".

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Smelting Pot Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. But that's part of my point:
There is NO guilt here. This smear attempt against both Obama and Wright does not pass any thinking person's "smell test." It is BEYOND time to put this to bed.
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Nitrogenica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. There is no guilt because they have some very deep hatred for a Democrat.
Which says what about them?
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. On MTP Mr Potato head just HAD to replay the video this morning. AGAIN
I've posted most of this on other threads.

"Our ability to dissent is just as important to our republic as our right to vote."

I hadn't learned of the quotation below until recently, which should have been shouted from every rooftop across this country over the last week.

The greatly revered Reverend Martin Luther King said this about the Vietnam War at his own Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta on Feb. 4, 1968:

"God didn't call America to engage in a senseless, unjust war. . . . And we are criminals in that war. We've committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world, and I'm going to continue to say it. And we won't stop it because of our pride and our arrogance as a nation. But God has a way of even putting nations in their place." King then predicted this response from the Almighty: "And if you don't stop your reckless course, I'll rise up and break the backbone of your power.""

Lord knows the corporate media wouldn't expose the obvious similarities between MLK and what Wright said.

Dolts.

With the exception of the AIDS conspiracy theory everything else he said was factual in terms of our acute history of rampant militarism. The problem was more of one of tonality than content for the most part.

I had heard that conspiracy circulating in the Afro American community two decades ago so I didn't find it shocking at all.

Blessing and damnation is part of all individuals and nations if you want to look at it that way.

The imaginary Ipod in my cranium to which I oft refer shuffles to Dylan's "What's a sweetheart like you doing in a dump like this. . .?" Wherein he sings "Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings. . ."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht-CJTvVGmo

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Smelting Pot Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I agree with you; the facts support Rev. Wright.
But, that line of attack does not work with the media. They need to have their "new toy" taken away by the Obama campaign actively criticizing them for attempting to crucify (during Holy Week no less!) two good men with scant circumstantial evidence.
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. And what if Wright was not on Obama's side, but is fueling Hannity?
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 12:12 PM by Life Long Dem
I don't think we should just dismiss this.

I'll probably get flamed, but it will be mostly from Hillary and gang which has come to be meaningless at this point.
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Smelting Pot Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I'm not sure I follow, but I'll take a stab at it:
I think the Obama campaign needs to get this media-fueled "controversy" behind them. Explaining that Rev. Wright was, essentially, right only fuels the right-wing media and their smears. If Obama does not put this to bed now, it will be used by the right as a wedge in the fall. Wedge issues are all they have, and we should not give them another one so easily.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. can you say more
.
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panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. My very patriotic father used to say
"This country is going to hell in a handbasket" To me, hell=damnation, so what he said was basically no different than the Rev Wright. It doesn't mean you are not patriotic. It means that you can see prolems in our country.
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keep_it_real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. Rev. Wright sermons on youtube - judge for yourself
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Smelting Pot Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. PLEASE READ MY OP!
I do not think Wright said anything wrong in any of his sermons! I think he said some things that Obama, as a candidate for President, had to distance himself from.

I have watched some of his sermons. He is a wonderful, engaging, passionate pastor. What is being done to him and his reputation by the media in search of a "headline" is deplorable. However, now that that image is out there, Barack has to put this behind him, and the media do not seem to be willing to do that. My OP is a suggested strategy to take this issue out of their hands.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. Imho, the problem with "prove it" is it actually keeps the smear going.
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 12:41 PM by sfexpat2000
The RW reply will be more smear that will be passed off as fact.
I'd favor a laundry list of pastoral missteps -- there have been plenty and people love lists.

Reverend Wright seems to be cool with however Obama wants to handle it. This has been so unfortunate but one small upside is some of us got to know what a force of nature Wright is, not to mention, we watched Obama reframe the smear like a champ.

eta: Come to think of it, I decided to vote for Obama because of the way he handled this.
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Smelting Pot Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. The laundry list won't work.
Saying, "Look at this! Obama isn't the only one with a crazy preacher!" does nothing to build Obama and/or Wright back up in the general public's mind.

The beauty of "Prove it" is that it's a strong message Obama SURROGATES can use on EVERY SHOW THAT TRIES TO KEEP THIS GOING. I would suggest an immediate "media surge" that gets this squashed NOW.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Smelting, I don't watch the corporate media very much.
Are the talking heads still talking today?
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Smelting Pot Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Tim Russert showed a clip again on Meet the Press. nt
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I see. Thanks. n/t
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
16. K/R.
:kick:
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Smelting Pot Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Thanks! nt.
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Welcome.
:kick:
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
18. Pass it on....
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 02:42 PM by stillcool47

Born on September 22, 1941, in Philadelphia
Reverend Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. is one of the most widely acclaimed black preachers in the United States. Combining social concern, spiritual growth, and political activism, Wright, who preaches in a black traditional style, brings a message of hope, redemption, and renewal. In 1972 he became pastor of a small United Church of Christ congregation in the inner city of Chicago. After over 30 years in the pulpit, his congregation has grown to 10,000 and is the largest United Church of Christ congregation in the United States.

In 1959 Wright enrolled at Virginia Union University, in Richmond, where he remained until 1961. That year he left school to join the military. He served in the Second Marine Division of the U.S. Marine Corps from 1961 to 1963, achieving the rank of private first class. In 1963 he graduated as valedictorian from the Great Lakes Naval Training Center, and from 1964 to 1967, he served as a cardio pulmonary technician at the U.S. Naval Hospital in Bethesda, Maryland. During 1965 and 1966, he was awarded with three Presidential Commendations from President Lyndon B. Johnson.

After his discharge from the military, Wright continued his education. He enrolled at Howard University in Washington, D.C., in 1967, and was awarded a bachelor's degree in 1968 and a master's degree in 1969. He then entered the University of Chicago Divinity School, receiving a master of arts degree in 1975. He ended his formal education in 1990 when he earned a Doctor of Ministry degree in black sacred music from United Theological Seminary in Dayton, Ohio.
----------------------------------------------
When Wright joined the staff of Trinity United Church of Christ as senior pastor, the inner city church boasted just 87 active members, most of whom came from the neighborhood surrounding the church. Wright embraced his new congregation and took up the phrase coined by his predecessor Rev. Dr. Reuben Sheares, "Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian." Within months the church had adopted the phrase as its motto and vision. Under Wright's leadership, fueled by his passion, and motivated by his preaching, the congregation began to grow by leaps and bounds. By 2004 there were over 10,000 members, with people coming from across the metro area. The congregation, which proudly notes its diverse socio-economic mix, dedicated a new 2,700 worship center in 1997.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Wright has authored several books, including Africans Who Shaped Our Faith, Good News! Sermons of Hope for Today's Families, and What Makes You So Strong? Sermons of Joy and Strength from Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. According to Cleophus J. LaRue in The Heart of Black Preaching, in his title sermon of What Makes You So Strong, Wright "demonstrates the power of the mighty sovereign at work in the lives of black people in twentieth century America. This sermon focuses on the root of black strength and survivability. Wright makes it clear throughout the sermon that the source of all strength, and especially black strength, is none other than the Spirit of God." As in his preaching, in his writing Wright focuses on the dual issues of corporate concern and spiritual sustenance. His latest publication, What Can Happen When We Pray: A Daily Devotional, was published in 2002.

In recognition of his contributions, Wright has been awarded seven honorary doctoral degrees. He has also served on a number of boards and commissions, including serving on the board of trustees for Virginia Union University and Chicago Theological Seminary. He continues to be a highly sought after preacher, teacher, and lecturer.

http://www.dogonvillage.com/blogs/african_american/archives/140-Who-is-Rev.-Jeremiah-Wright.html


..............and this Letter to the New York Times that the paper did not see fit to print.............


March 11, 2007
Jodi Kantor
The New York Times
22
9 West 43rd Street
New York, New York 10036-3959
Dear Jodi:
Thank you for engaging in one of the biggest misrepresentations of the truth I have ever seen in sixty-five years.
You sat and shared with me for two hours. You told me you were doing a “Spiritual Biography” of Senator Barack Obama. For two hours, I shared with you how I thought he was the most principled individual in public service that I have ever met. For two hours, I talked with you about how idealistic he was.
For two hours I shared with you what a genuine human being he was. I told you how incredible he was as a man who was an African American in public service, and as a man who refused to announce his candidacy for President until Carol Moseley Braun indicated one way or the other whether or not she was going to run.
I told you what a dreamer he was. I told you how idealistic he was. We talked about how refreshing it would be for someone who knew about Islam to be in the Oval Office. Your own question to me was, Didn’t I think it would be incredible to have somebody in the Oval Office who not only knew about Muslims, but had living and breathing Muslims in his own family?
I told you how important it would be to have a man who not only knew the difference between Shiites and Sunnis prior to 9/11/01 in the Oval Office, but also how important it would be to have a man who knew what Sufism was; a man who understood that there were different branches of Judaism; a man who knew the difference between Hasidic Jews, Orthodox Jews, Conservative Jews and Reformed Jews; and a man who was a devout Christian, but who did not prejudge others because they believed something other than what he believed.
I talked about how rare it was to meet a man whose Christianity was not just “in word only.”
I talked about Barack being a person who lived his faith and did not argue his faith. I talked about Barack as a person who did not draw doctrinal lines in the sand nor consign other people to hell if they did not believe what he believed.
Out of a two-hour conversation with you about Barack’s spiritual journey and my protesting to you that I had not shaped him nor formed him, that I had not mentored him or made him the man he was, even though I would love to take that credit, you did not print any of that.
When I told you, using one of your own Jewish stories from the Hebrew Bible as to how God asked Moses, “What is that in your hand?,” that Barack was like that when I met him. Barack had it “in his hand.” Barack had in his grasp a uniqueness in terms of his spiritual development that one is hard put to find in the 21st century, and you did not print that.
As I was just starting to say a moment ago, Jodi, out of two hours of conversation I spent approximately five to seven minutes on Barack’s taking advice from one of his trusted campaign people and deeming it unwise to make me the media spotlight on the day of his announcing his candidacy for the Presidency and what do you print?
You and your editor proceeded to present to the general public a snippet, a printed “sound byte” and a titillating and tantalizing article about his disinviting me to the Invocation on the day of his announcing his candidacy.
I have never been exposed to that kind of duplicitous behavior before, and I want to write you publicly to let you know that I do not approve of it and will not be party to any further smearing of the name, the reputation, the integrity or the character of perhaps this nation’s first (and maybe even only) honest candidate offering himself for public service as the person to occupy the Oval Office.
Your editor is a sensationalist. For you to even mention that makes me doubt your credibility, and I am looking forward to see how you are going to butcher what else I had to say concerning Senator Obama’s “Spiritual Biography.”
Our Conference Minister, the Reverend Jane Fisler Hoffman, a white woman who belongs to a Black church that Hannity of “Hannity and Colmes” is trying to trash, set the record straight for you in terms of who I am and in terms of who we are as the church to which Barack has belonged for over twenty years.
The president of our denomination, the Reverend John Thomas, has offered to try to help you clarify in your confused head what Trinity Church is — even though you spent the entire weekend with us setting me up to interview me for what turned out to be a smear of the Senator; and yet The New York Times continues to roll on making the truth what it wants to be the truth.
I do not remember reading in your article that Barack had apologized for listening to that bad information and bad advice. Did I miss it? Or did your editor cut it out? Either way, you do not have to worry about hearing anything else from me for you to edit or “spin” because you are more interested in journalism than in truth.
Forgive me for having a momentary lapse. I forgot that The New York Times was leading the bandwagon in trumpeting why it is we should have gone into an illegal war.
The New York Times became George Bush and the Republican Party’s national “blog.” The New York Times played a role in the outing of Valerie Plame. I do not know why I thought The New York Times had actually repented and was going to exhibit a different kind of behavior.
Maybe it was my faith in the Jewish Holy Day of Roshashana. Maybe it was my being caught up in the euphoria of the Season of Lent; but whatever it is or was, I was sadly mistaken.
There is no repentance on the part of The New York Times. There is no integrity when it comes to The Times. You should do well with that paper, Jodi. You looked me straight in my face and told me a lie!
Sincerely and respectfully yours,
Reverend Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. , Senior Pastor
Trinity United Church of Christ
http://www.tucc.org/upload/tuccbulletin_mar18.pdf
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Smelting Pot Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I have seen both of those pieces here. Thanks for reposting, but...
Our TV "journalists" don't deal well with facts. They mostly regurgitate soundbites and talking points. Hence, my call for a new way to attack them: put the burden of proof where it belongs - ON THEM!

For far too long we have let the media get away with not doing their jobs. We need to start holding them to a higher burden of proof.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. what does it hurt...
to email them? If nobody pushes back we'll stay run over.
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Smelting Pot Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. It doesn't hurt anything.
In fact, we should be doing both! Demand the truth with one hand and educate them with the other.

Really, it is up to the Obama surrogates to call on the press IN PERSON to get their facts straight.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Some hand addy's...
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 03:37 PM by stillcool47
Hardball@msnbc.com

Joe@msnbc.com

viewerservices@msnbc.com

public@nytimes.com
cc: Clark Hoyt
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Smelting Pot Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Thanks! nt.
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