Is there a timeline on the Bosnia story?

How did it get started, and why does it matter?

I have seen several threads now, and several videos, but don't know the origins. First, why did she tell the story of Bosnia in the first place?

Some are saying that it proves she's a liar, but I think she ought to get some slack about recounting events from 12 years ago. Probably if I recounted my trip to Europe a mere seven years ago I might contradict news reports, if there were news reports about such a minor event ("Joe Nobody visits tiny ancestral village in Deutschland") and that was a pretty bodacious event in my life. Not one of hundreds of trips, meetings, briefings, speeches, debates, book-signings, etc.

It reminds me of the media feeding-frenzy over some of Gore's stories, like his trip to Texas with James Lee Witt. Aha! The M$M and RWNM said, he got a detail wrong, he's a big liar! Yet at the same time, they could not bother to call Bush on his tax-cut lies. Apparently because they couldn't handle the math.

It seems like a stupid game of "gotcha" that detracts from discussion about issues, not that we are talking much about them anyway. Also, is the M$M gonna press as hard about McCain's statements about the Keating 5?

Isn't that the main *cough* discrepancy? *cough

because you are afraid of being shot is NOT something you are likely to forget.

She told this lie to gain cred as someone in a war zone... someone that put their life on the line for our country.

This isn't a "Gore invented the internet" type lie (which Gore never SAID!), it's not mere "padding the resume"... it's making up something that never happened.

Only not with the exact same details. She was shot at (or told there was a threat). She did visit Bosnia, and she did fly on a C17. Not all at the same event, but they all happened.

Just like Gore did visit Texas after floods and did go on trips with Witt, but the two did not happen at once.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5224225&mesg_id=5224303

MARKOVICI, Bosnia-Herzegovina - Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by Black Hawk helicopter Monday to deliver a personal "thank you, thank you, thank you" to U.S. troops.

"They're making a difference," the first lady said of the 18,500 Americans working as peacekeepers in Bosnia.

Mrs. Clinton became the first presidential spouse since Eleanor Roosevelt to make such an extensive trip into what can be considered a hostile area, though others have visited hot spots.

http://sundaygazettemail.com/News/200803110472

There seems to be a story where she may have been told to just run for her car. She was flying into a hostile area. That memory has been mixed into her mind with the flight on the C17 which is how she made the initial trip. Thus it seems less like a "lie" to me, than a mixed up memory with details confused. She flew in on a C17, and had a ceremony. Then flew on a helicopter into a hostile area where a ceremony was cancelled and she was told to just run for her car.

It seems plausible to me that after 12 years she combined the two events and simply is misremembering details rather than making up stories. The same was Gore mis-remembered his trip to Texas. It's a trivial error, not a major character flaw.

Even though I generally think Hillary has plenty of the latter.

everyone else was told to sit on flak jackets...

Used the C-17 because of the vertical climb and short rollouts...

No reception at the airport, quick dash to the cars, heads down.

This is what she told people.

Now, if she is conflating two memories of two different events on that trip, as you suggest, it's pretty hard to conflate a C-17 and a Blackhawk Helicopter. She had the DETAILS of the steep descent and short runway use ("I was moved to the cockpit") of a C-17 landing in a hot zone, but she wouldn't "move to the cockpit" of the Blackhawk (room for the pilot and co-pilot only!).

So, either the C-17 landing was as she describes OR it was as Sinbad, others on the trip (haven't heard boo from Sheryl Crow) AND THE PHOTO EVIDENCE and VIDEO shows...

It's NOT conflating the memory of a C-17 landing AND a blackhawk trip. There are simply too many details that fit a C-17 landing (like the ones they do at Baghdad airport all the time).

Besides, *I* remember things that happened to me 20 or 30 years ago very clearly (if they were "memorable" for some reason, like some danger was involved). Do we really want someone as President who can't remember what happened on a dangerous trip (if she is to be believed) only 12 years ago? Really? I mean, it's not like you make a hot landing in a war zone with possible sniper fire every other day...

When she says "I remember sniper fire" and the stories do tell of her plane doing evasive manouvers because of sniper fire, it's dishonest to call her a "liar".

Hillary: When we were flying into Bosnia we had to uh, part of the reason we were in the C-17 is because part of it is armored. I was moved up into the cockpit. Everyone else was told to sit on their bullet proof vests. We came in in an evasive maneuver. Those of you who have been on a C-17 or C-130 know that one of their great characteristics is that they can take off very quickly and they can maneuver agilely to avoid incoming fire. There was no greeting ceremony and we were basically told to run to our cars. Now that is what happened.”

There was exactly one C-17 flight into Bosnia with the First Lady aboard. Care to tackle that "there was no greeting ceremony and we were basically told to run to our cars, Now that is what happened" line?

Nice try at vagueness, though. Muddying up the waters with "truthiness" isn't going to be a campaign winner. Not this time.

fabricate the issues. It just goes to show how they cherry pick, choose sound bites and distort the facts. Are Obama's supporters who are doing these dirty politics a reflection of Obama's Campaign, a reflection of Obama's character and leadership. This is something the public will have to deside upon in the coming months as we see more of the underhanded ways the Obama Campaign will go to win the democratic nomination.

Obama has been caught in several lies during this campaign, most recently when he said he had never heard any of Wright's inflammatory comments before but admitted the next day in his speech that he had. Or when he told an interviewer that Austan Goolsbee had never met with Canadian officials - "didn't happen" were his words - and subsequently a memo surfaced which caused Goolsbee himself to admit the meeting had occurred. The difference is that he is never called to account for these untruths either by the media or his loyalists. Clinton recalled the Bosnia flight as one where she and Chelsea were ordered into the cockpit and told to wear flak jackets, then advised of potential sniper fire on the ground. Her statements are cherrypicked and made to look like monstrous lies. All's fair in politics, but at least admit the possibility that Barack Obama's campaign plays the spin game and shades the truth with the best of them.

She misrepresented the facts

And you're engaging in "truthiness" and "changing the subject" and "pointing fingers at those calling us out on our 'truthiness'".

It's about as plain as plain can be, and this kind of Clintonian triangulating is something the American voters are clearly a bit weary of.

You're right, "all's fair in politics." But honestly, what on earth compelled an otherwise brilliant US Senator to make up such a whoppper and practically beg us and others to call her out on it?

Ready on Day One? Not so much.

You can check for yourselves, over at this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5224808

Really?

What are you basing your claims on, using the Senator's own words?

Triangulate, much?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2rtBUfc6YA&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOsGo_HWP-c


Listen to both of these, she is repeating the lie.

A "gotcha" would be if she made an honest mistake and you exploit it. This is not the case with her lies concerning her trip to Bosnia (also her opposition to NAFTA, among other things)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2rtBUfc6YA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOsGo_HWP-c



Listen to her, these are 2 different accounts. She didn't just do it just once, that could have been an honest mistake.

1. HRC arrives in Bosnia

2. She doesn't get shot at

3. She leaves

When did she tell the story, and what difference does it make if she remembered a few details. (That is, it was a trip in a helicopter and not a C17.) I've read enough of these threads to read stories of her being shot at. At least I remember reading them.

Some guy put together her story based on her answer on Saint Patricks day and added in the video of her getting there. Where I come from they call what she said a lie. In no way shape or form could you forget being shot at or running and ducking for the limosine. I just wonder why she said it. Im 45 and although I dont remember the trip I can tell you the first lady (with Chelsea in tow) getting shot at would be NEWS big time.

Not reflected by actual news reports at the time, of course.

Hence, an inexplicable embellishment by Hillary Clinton that was rather easily debunked with video, quotes, news reports, etc. etc.

It's baffling, the defense of Hillary on this one, isn't it?

Why would she lie about it, it is baffling.

and she didn't just do it once. Listen to both of these, it wasn't just one honest mistake. That would be a "gotcha" moment. This is being caught in a lie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOsGo_HWP-c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2rtBUfc6YA&feature=related

She's being grilled on trivialities and describing her memories.

If she said she was confused and made a mistake nobody would fault her for that. She repeated the lie on St. Patrick's Day when asked about it after her speech.

Watch and listen to both the videos, she does it twice.

was she still being asked about her memories, without having seen any contradictory evidence?

Only in Hillaryland...where reality does NOT exist!

:rofl:

:hi:

Who has the more believable "getting shot at" story? HRC... or John McCain?

I'll wait.

That and the video footage of a missle hitting his plane while it was still on the deck of the carrier. (friendly fire from another plane, the missle malfunctioned)

Or not.

but never bother to do it about Republicans. Or what they used to do with Bush and Kerry, they'd show a huge lie of Bush and then a tiny error by Kerry and say "they are both doing it" as if jaywalking is the same as mass murder, as if a kid who accidentally breaks a window while playing baseball is just as bad as a kid who deliberately starts a fire in the living room.

and the idea that this was an accident isn't credible either. She repeated the story/lie. If it was an honest mistake she should not have repeated it when asked about it on St. Patrick's Day

...and he has miliary records to back up his claims of getting shot at.

OMG....can you just see this if she were ever the nominee: Her lying bullshit story about being shot at in Bosnia juxiposed against McCain being a POW and being tortured.

Only in Hillaryworld would those two things be the same...man, I am sooooooo glad she has for all intents and purposes lost. Can you imagine what fools she would make of the Dem party ~~ not to mention making sure we got Prez McCain ~~ if this lying bullshit had come out in some debate with McCain.

OMFG..........

will look completely ridiculous if she tries to use them against John McCain.

Toughness? Experience in elected office? Foreign policy expertise? Military expertise?

Please.

...she is your Queen ~~ when did she start lying about it. That is the ONLY timeline that matters at this pont for loser Hillary.

JMHO