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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:21 AM
Original message
Each side, angling for any edge, gins up pseudo-controversies. In response, each feigns indignation
Richardson on Sunday: President Clinton Was Not Questioning Sen. Obama's Patriotism

On Fox News Sunday, Bill Richardson said that President Clinton was not questioning Sen. Obama's patriotism:

Andrew Sullivan and Kathleen Parker – both prominent critics of President Clinton – agreed.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/defending-bill.html
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MzZjZjQ5YWUyN2ZkZDQ1ZjI3YmM0YTNlYzAxMDY3ZGQ=


In response to the same comments, the Obama campaign compared Bill Clinton to Joe McCarthy. Read Howard Wolfson memo on the Obama campaign's daily character attacks HERE: http://thepage.time.com/clinton-memo-on-bill-clinton-being-compared-to-joe-mccarthy/

Transcript:

WALLACE: The Obama campaign sent out one of its top surrogates, that's retired Air Force General Tony McPeak along side Obama yesterday to accuse Clinton of McCarthyism for questioning Obama's patriotism. Governor Richardson, as someone who worked for Bill Clinton, do you really think that's what he was trying to do?

GOV. BILL RICHARDSON: I don't believe President Clinton was implying that.



Double Negative

The return of doughface liberalism.


David Greenberg, The New Republic Published: Wednesday, April 09, 2008

The issue of negative campaigning and its proper bounds is now dominating the Democratic campaign. In recent weeks, the neck-and-neck race has degenerated into a miasma of trivial flaps--the source of that photo of Barack Obama in Somali garb, the "gaffes" of Samantha Power and Geraldine Ferraro, and so on--only tenuously related to the question of whether Obama or Hillary Clinton would be a better president. Each side, angling for any edge, gins up pseudo-controversies. In response, each feigns indignation, claiming the other is hitting below the belt.

These skirmishes have yielded no discernible advantage. But the bickering has, troublingly, validated a piece of conventional wisdom among a liberal commentariat that was already tilting heavily toward Obama: that Clinton is "ruthless," "vicious," even "Nixonian"--an unscrupulous appendage of her husband's "machine" (a word seldom used about the far better oiled Obama apparatus). As Obama's guru David Axelrod would have it, "They are literally trying to do anything to win this nomination." You hear it said everywhere, from blogs to high-toned op-ed pages. But this virulent meme is untrue, and--quite apart from the current contest--anyone who cares about liberalism and its future should be worried by its spread.

To begin with, the charge that Clinton is Nixonian is as scurrilous as the smears that Obama is a closet Muslim or that John McCain sired a bastard child. Her campaign, simply put, is not categorically different from any other hard-driving presidential bid, including Obama's own. It should be recalled that, back in the fall, when Obama trailed in the polls by double digits, friendly columnists positively begged him to go after the front-runner. In an October 30 debate, Obama charged that Clinton was "changing positions whenever it's politically convenient" and that "she has not been truthful" about her Social Security plans. The jibes grew so strident that Bill Richardson called a time-out in the middle of the debate, declaring, "It's pretty close to personal attacks that we don't need."

The point isn't to taunt, as if in the schoolyard, that Obama "started it"; the point is that no presidential aspirant enters the arena an innocent. Both candidates have flip-flopped, ducked questions, taken potshots, made dubious campaign promises, and spun the facts in disingenuous ways. They have done so for the same reason that fish swim and birds fly: It's in the nature and job description of politicians to do so. To plead that one or the other has done these things more, or more nefariously, is to launch a litany of tit-for-tat charges that would outrun the pages of this magazine . . .

more . . . http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=2ae1b82c-0420-4e47-adba-4af115719d47&p=1
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. Obama's ahead in feigned indignation too.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. No, he was only playing the race card for the nth time
Unless you have a good alternative argument for "all this other stuff that always seems to intrude itself on our politics."

Bill Clinton: Least dignified ex-President in the history of the United States.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Typical Obama campaign response. You folks have played the 'race card' as well.
Along with the gender card, the sexual orientation card, and every wedge you can muster in defense of your icon. But, I don't expect you to acknowledge that because you obviously believe your candidate and campaign are infallible. A ridiculous notion which can only be believed if you completely ignore these:


OBAMA:
03/11/08 Obama campaign suggests that Hillary's 'claims of foreign policy experience are exaggerated.
Source: The Page
03/11/08 Obama spokesperson Axelrod said Clinton campaign follows an 'insidious pattern' when it comes to race.
Source: Politico
03/10/08 Obama said Hillary was 'saying one thing and doing another' on NAFTA.
Source: Obama remarks in Jackson, MS
03/08/08 Obama campaign: Clinton camp should 'stop telling the American people things that they know aren't true.'
Source: Obama campaign memo
03/06/08 Obama campaign manager says Hillary is one of the ‘most secretive politicians in America today.’
Source: Politico
03/05/08 Obama campaign manager says 'The Clintons are the gold standard of negative tactical campaigning.'
Source: Washington Post
03/05/08 Obama surrogate accuses Hillary of 'derogatory comments.'
Source: Obama Campaign Release
03/05/08 Obama questions whether Hillary was 'negotiating treaties or agreements' or 'handling crises' when she visited foreign countries.
Source: MSNBC
03/05/08 Obama spokesperson falsely accuses Hillary of misleading people about whether Obama is 'a devout Christian.'
Source: MSNBC
03/05/08 Obama surrogate accuses Clinton campaign of trying 'to exploit race, exploit sex, exploit fear for political expediency.'
Source: CNN
03/05/08 Obama spokesperson alludes to Hillary's 'law firms and real estate deals.'
Source: Politico
02/18/08 Obama says that Clinton politics offer 'more of the same divisions and distractions.'
(Source: LA Times)
02/15/08 Obama accuses Hillary of 'being part of business-as-usual in Washington.'
(Source: CNN)
02/13/08 Obama surrogate suggests that Hillary 'demonizes people.'
(Source: Washington Post)
02/11/08 Obama surrogate refers to President Clinton as 'Slick Willy.'
(Source: Washington Times)
02/07/08 Obama says there is 'a whole dump truck' of dirt that Republicans could use on Hillary.
(Source: New York Post)
02/04/08 Obama calls Hillary's behavior 'more troubling than legislative gamesmanship.'
(Source: Newsweek)
01/31/08 Obama says sometimes 'he can't tell' if he's running against Hillary or President Clinton.
(Source: New York Times)
01/30/08 Obama campaign sends negative mailer to Connecticut contains misleading attacks against Hillary on Iraq.
(Source: FactHub)
01/29/08 Obama mailer claims Hillary will put 'Washington thinking and Washington interests first.'
(Source: TPM Election Central)
01/28/08 Obama says sometimes 'he can't tell' if he's running against Hillary or President Clinton.
(Source: Associated Press)
01/27/08 Obama likens Hillary to 'the status quo, fighting back with everything it's got.'
(Source: Economist)
01/26/08 HEADLINE: Clinton calls for calm as Obama attacks continue.
(Source: Times Online)
01/25/08 Obama campaign Truth Squad member says Hillary and Bill Clinton are 'all about deceit.'
(Source: Washington Post)
01/23/08 Obama Radio Ad says 'Hillary Clinton will say anything to get elected.
(Source: Obama SC Radio ad)
01/23/08 Obama campaign accuses Hillary of 'politics-as-usual attacks.'
(Source: barackobama.com)
01/23/08 Obama: Hillary's campaign has 'former President Clinton delivering a bunch of inaccurate statements about my record'
(Source: NBC's Today Show)
01/22/08 Obama campaign accuses Hillary of 'incredible distortions.'
(Source: usatoday.com)
01/21/08 Obama accuses Hillary of being 'willing to say anything to get elected.'
(Source: South Carolina CNN Debate)
01/21/08 Obama says sometimes 'he can't tell' if he's running against Hillary or President Clinton.
(Source: South Carolina CNN Debate)
01/21/08 Obama accuses Clintons of playing 'political games that we are accustomed to.'
(Source: South Carolina CNN Debate)
01/19/08 Obama says Hillary's Washington experience is 'why people mistrust our politics.'
(Source: Newsday)
01/19/08 Headline: Michelle Obama launches attack on Clinton.
(Source: Telegraph.co.uk)
01/18/08 Obama supporter says Hillary uses ‘the kind of politics I expect from the other party.'
(Source: Las Vegas Sun)
01/18/08 Obama says Hillary would be 'a president whose plans change with the politics of the moment.'
(Source: New York Times)
01/18/08 Michelle Obama says Hillary represents 'the same old thing over and over again'
(Source: telegraph.co.uk)
01/17/08 Obama characterizes contest with Hillary as a contest 'between the past and the future.'
(Source: rollingstone.com)
01/15/08 Obama says Hillary uses ‘fear of terrorism in scoring political points.'
(Source: MSNBC's Las Vegas debate)
01/14/08 Obama says 'Senator Clinton started off trying to make history, and now she's trying to rewrite it.'
(Source: Las Vegas Review-Journal)
01/11/08 Obama supporter suggests Hil’s tears were crocodilian.
(Source: New York Daily News)
01/10/08 Obama predicts a Clinton victory would mean ‘starting off with half the country not wanting to vote for Democrats.’
(Source: The Hill)
01/09/08 Obama supporter calls Hillary one of the ‘guardians of the status quo.’
(Source: Morning Joe)
12/28/07 Obama's campaign says Bhutto's assasination was 'yet another manifestation' of Hillary's poor judgment.
(Source: Politico)
12/27/07 Obama links Bhutto's assassination to politicians like Hillary who 'have not made particularly good judgments.'
(Source: Larry King Live)
12/27/07 Obama’s talking points hit Hillary on electability.
(Source: Obama talking points)
12/27/07 Obama: Hillary 'more of the same.'
(Source: Chicago Sun-Times)
12/27/07 Obama: Hillary will 'be secretive as president.'
(Source: Chicago Sun-Times)
12/23/07 Obama: Hillary 'tends to galvanize the other side.'
(Source: CBS)
12/21/07 Obama Hits Clinton on Electability
(Source: cnn.com)
12/18/07 Clinton makes nice, but Obama questions her character
(Source: AFP)
12/05/07 HEADLINE: Obama: Many view Clinton negatively
(Source: Des Moines Register)
12/03/07 Obama says if Hillary wins she 'will not be able to govern.'
(Source: Boston.com)
11/27/07 Obama Mocks Hil 1st Lady Role
(Source: New York Daily News)
11/26/07 Obama says Hillary takes credit for Clinton administration successes, says failures are 'somebody else's fault.'
(Source: Nightline)
11/21/07 HEADLINE: Obama criticizes Clinton, Edwards on health care plans
(Source: AP)
11/18/07 HEADLINE: Obama accuses Clinton campaign of mud-slinging with Novak column
(Source: San Francisco Chronicle)
11/18/07 HEADLINE: Obama criticizes Clinton campaign at Austin rally
(Source: Dallas Morning News)
11/13/07 Obama campaign manager says Hillary has 'has been ducking and dodging tough questions at rapid pace.
(Source: Plouffe email)
11/08/07 Obama says Hillary 'can't deliver' change.
(Source: Fox News)
11/06/07 Obama attacks Clinton's ethanol shift
(Source: Des Moines Register)
11/04/07 HEADLINE: Obama Criticizes Clinton's Drive to Win
(Source: Washington Post)
11/03/07 Obama says Hillary gives 'vague, calculated answers' does not have 'clear, consistent principles.'
(Source: New York Times)
11/02/07 Obama said Hillary has 'one position one day and one position another day.'
(Source: AP)
11/01/07 Obama campaign said Hillary 'offered more of the same Washington political calculation and evasion.'
(Source: The Hill)
10/30/07 Obama says Hillary 'has not been truthful and clear.'
(Source: MSNBC Debate)
10/29/07 Obama on Hillary: 'I don't think you're ready to lead if you can't tell us where you're going.'
(Source: Quad City Times)
10/28/07 HEADLINE: Obama Ratchets Up Criticism of Clinton
(Source: Washington Post)
10/28/07 Obama says Hillary believes 'you should hedge and dodge and spin, but at all costs, don't answer.'
(Source: Financial Times)
10/24/07 HEADLINE: Obama takes aim on Clinton's vote on anti-Iran resolution
(Source: Waterloo/Cedar Falls Courier)
10/23/07 HEADLINE: Obama steps up criticism of Clinton Iran vote with voter mailing
(Source: AP)
10/15/07 Obama says Hillary is 'the most calculating politician in this race.'
(Source: US News & World Report)
10/13/07 HEADLINE: Sen. Clinton fires back after Obama's attack on war vote
(Source: Waterloo/Cedar Falls Courier)
10/12/07 HEADLINE: Obama critical of Clinton on Iran
(Source: Cedar Rapids Gazette)
10/12/07 Obama on Hillary: 'I'm not sure if any of us knows exactly where she stands.'
(Source: Andrew Sullivan)
10/12/07 Obama campaign accuses Hillary of 'purely tactical posturing.'
(Source: Obama Campaign Memo)
10/12/07 Obama says Hillary is leading 'because she's Hillary Clinton as opposed to Hillary Rodham.'
(Source: Concord Monitor)
10/03/07 Obama says Hillary would be 'another president who shuts the door on the American people.'
(Source: Bloomberg)
09/07/07 Obama says, even if elected, Hillary 'can't govern.'
(Source: Salon)
08/17/07 HEADLINE: Obama Takes Sharper Tone to the Trail
(Source: New York Times)
07/27/07 HEADLINE: Obama attacks Clinton's foreign policy direction
(Source: Financial Times)
06/15/07 Obama campaign pushes opposition research falsely accusing Bill Clinton of giving paid speech on 9/11/06.
(Source: Politico)

03/11/08 Obama campaign: 'There is no reason to believe that she was a key player in foreign policy at any time during the Clinton Administration.'
(Source: The Page)
03/10/08 Obama falsely accuses Hillary campaign of leaking photos of him overseas 'to make people afraid.'
(Source: Obama remarks in Jackson, MS)
03/09/08 Obama spokesman says Hillary 'deprived most Democratic voters of the ability to fully judge her.'
(Source: ABC News)
03/06/08 Obama suspects 'you're not going to get a bunch of particularly impressive answers' to questions on Hillary's foreign policy experience.
(Source: Time)
03/06/08 Fmr. Obama adviser Samantha Power called Hillary 'a monster.'
(Source: The Scotsman)
03/05/08 Obama Texas state director accuses Hillary campaign of trying to 'discourage Texans from participating' in the caucus.
(Source: Associated Press)
03/05/08 Obama spokesperson accuses Clintons of being 'the same old thing' and using 'kitchen sink strategies that have mired us in the mess we're in, in Washington.'
(Source: MSNBC)
03/05/08 Obama spokesperson attacks Hillary on tax returns, library donors and White House records.
(Source: CNN)
03/05/08 Obama surrogate falsely accuses Hillary of 'out of order comments' about religion.
(Source: MSNBC)
03/05/08 Citing Wall Street Journal editorial, Obama campaign attacks Hillary on 'cattle-futures trading profit.'
(Source: Obama campaign memo)
02/21/08 Obama says that Clinton politics offer 'more of the same divisions and distractions.'
(Source: LA Times)
02/18/08 Obama surrogate accuses Hillary campaign of 'distortion, misrepresentation, and what I think is basically fear-mongering.'
(Source: Chicago Tribune)
02/14/08 Obama surrogate suggests Hillary represents 'Washington-style - promises made and promises broken.'
(Source: Houston Chronicle)
02/11/08 Obama says Hillary 'starts with 47% of the country against her.
(Source: Washington Post)
02/08/08 Obama campaign says Republicans have 'expressed almost uniformly an interest' in having Hillary as the nominee.'
(Source: National Journal)
02/05/08 Obama spokesperson accuses of Hillary's campaign of 'second-tier Congressional race tactics.'
(Source: New York Times)
02/01/08 Obama supporter says Bill Clinton's role 'undermines' Hillary's 'image as an independent woman.'
(Source: New York Times)
01/30/08 Obama accuses Hillary of 'changing positions when the politics of the moment changed'
(Source: USA Today)
01/29/08 Obama camp sends negative mailer to North Dakota, with misleading attacks against Hillary on NAFTA and lobbyists.
(Source: FactHub)
01/28/08 Obama says Clinton is 'not being straight with the American people.'
(Source: New York Daily News)
01/27/08 Obama campaign accuses Hillary of 'cynically flouting' the rules.
(Source: Financial Times)
01/27/08 Obama says Hillary will 'say anything or do anything to win an election.'
(Source: Economist)
01/25/08 Obama campaigns says 'Hillary Clinton will do or say anything to win an election'
(Source: Plouffe Statement)
01/24/08 Obama paints Hillary as 'a president whose positions change with the politics of the moment.'
(Source: Boston Globe)
01/23/08 Obama radio ad says 'Hillary Clinton. She'll say anything, and change nothing. It's time to turn the page.'
(Source: Obama SC Radio ad)
01/23/08 HEADLINE: Obama Hurls New Anti-Clinton Broadsides.
(Source: AFP)
01/23/08 Obama truth squad member compares President Clinton to Lee Atwater.
(Source: CNN)
01/22/08 Obama supporter accuses Hillary of 'backbiting, bitter give-and take.'
(Source: Associated Press)
01/21/08 Obama tells Hillary, 'Truthfulness during campaigns makes a difference.'
(Source: South Carolina CNN Debate)
01/21/08 Obama described Hillary as 'a corporate lawyer sitting on the board at Wal-Mart.'
(Source: South Carolina CNN Debate)
01/20/08 Obama camp: 'people have heard a lot of things that just aren’t true from the mouth of the First Lady...from the mouth of the campaign.'
(Source: Politico)
01/19/08 Obama campaign accuses Hillary campaign of looking for an excuse to 'evade the pledge.'
(Source: Politico)
01/18/08 Obama supporter says ‘no amount of falsehoods from the Clinton campaign' can change Obama's record.
(Source: AP)
01/18/08 Obama campaign says Hillary's campaign ‘clearly would like to have workers' voices silenced'
(Source: salon.com)
01/18/08 Obama suggests Hillary was not truthful and was 'willing to say anything to get elected.'
(Source: telegraph.co.uk)
01/17/08 Obama Campaign says Hillary is 'just trying to confuse people about Obama's record.'
(Source: Boston Globe)
01/16/08 Obama campaign says Hillary believes 'this is a race for who would make the best chief of staff.'
(Source: USA Today)
01/14/08 Obama says Hillary 'hasn't taken the issue of lobbying very seriously.'
(Source: Las Vegas Review-Journal)
01/13/08 Obama claims Hillary is distracted by 'political points-scoring.'
(Source: AP)
01/10/08 Obama supporter doubts Hillary’s sincerity and says ‘those tears have to be analyzed.’
(Source: New York Daily News)
01/10/08 Obama supporter mocks Hillary’s teary moment and says ‘don’t cry’ to Obama.
(Source: New York Post)
much more: http://www.attacktimeline.com/
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. The Clintons, because of their own tactics, are now despised by many black voters
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-trice-24mar24,1,2106298.column

That, more than anything, spells permanent doom for them in the Democratic Party.

Well played, Billary.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. NOT THIS BLACK VOTER
Typical Obama supporter using the 'race card', oblivious to their own hypocrisy.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. You're not alone...She does get 55% of the black vote against McCain in a Rasmussen poll
:thumbsup:

==There is some danger ahead for both Democratic candidates, according to the numbers. The Rasmussen report show a brewing racial divide. Black support for Hillary Clinton has dropped to 55 percent in a general election match-up against John McCain.==

http://thedailyvoice.com/voice/2008/03/new-poll-shows-race-controvers-000363.php

You don't fall that far just because the other guy has the temerity to call you on your bullshit.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
6. Bigtree, you deliver bullshit by the truckload. I am impressed. Hope you sent
her some more money.

By the way, aside from getting the usual 20 people to agree with you, how many minds have you changed?

Damn it stinks in here.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. A laughable critique from the most shameless ginner on the boards
Edited on Mon Mar-24-08 09:05 AM by alcibiades_mystery
Who can take you seriously?

Please storm off in a well-announced huff again. Make it weepy-eyed and indignant as per usual. And this time, keep your fucking promise and stay gone.
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