Were the Clintons always this horrible?

This is a serious question.

I'm now reevaluating the entire Clinton era. I'm not ready to say the Republicans were right about the Clintons (most certainly not!), but I'm wondering if these traits were always there, and we were just not ready or willing to admit it.

Let me know what you all think. I'm struggling with this. Bill Clinton used to be my hero, and I find it hard to believe that he woke up one day as an unethical, power-hungry beast.

Just Google "Clinton scandals" - I dare ya. :)

he sold pardons to his friends, but refused to pardon Leonard Peltier after promising (in so many words) to free him.

I don't know why the Peltier issue doesn't come up more. Once I read up on that, it completely changed my perception of Clinton.

In his autobiography (page 30) he wrote, "I never lost my interest in Native Americans or my feeling that they had been terribly mistreated."

Nice try, Bubba. We know.

always this bad? YOU ARE NOT EVEN TRYING.

The McCarthy crack didn't come out of nowhere. There's some history there when he was on chiefs of staff.

you weren't paying attention.

I voted for him twice, but he was never my kind of Democrat.

After the 80's my standard for a Democratic Hero was one that could win. I realize those expectations are kinda low, but after 1980-1992, could you really blame me?

to serve as appetizers during the many orgies they had at the governors mansion in Little Rock. If you dig under the white house you will find the bones of thousands of Bill's sexual partners. and Hillary has had treatments to prevent the sun from keeping her inside.

So he KNOWS!!

What was that thing about them having their first born, a BigFoot no less, flown in and out of a small airport in Mena?

to protest Nixon's visit which was an awesome fucking trick since he was in Cambridge England at the same time. Fucking Ghosts I tell ya. The most horrible human beings ever on the face of the planet, worse then Hitler, worse then Mussolini, Tojo, Hussein, the devil himself. Just ask any Obama supporter.

Is there any limit to their evil???

i hadnt heard these yet
can you provide a link?

GOP voters. They aren't right on everything but the are being proved right daily on clintons. Man they even like Obama so I find it real hard to dis them these days.

Sure they like Obama because they know McCain can beat him.

:crazy:

me too
its the main reason i want to see her away from power
jeez i hated going to my rep friends and coworkers and telling them they were right
putting some of us thru that alone should disqualify her

And I voted Perot in 92 & 96 because I knew they were more Republican than Democrat.

Maybe we did give them a "pass" because they are democrats. I think denial is a river in Egypt.

I concluded that we were so busy defending them and trusting them that we didn't see that, while much of what they achieved was good, some of it was so bad we are paying for it now. I used the example of the financial services reforms which repealed some New Deal market and consumer protections, the Glass-Steagall Acts, that might have prevented or assuaged somewhat the current economic crisis. I don't regret defending them from the right wing. But this campaign has been an eye opener for me and it is causing me to take a harder look at the Clinton era.

This place is worse than FreeRepublic lately.

Is she running for McCain's VP? Sheesh.

Do you mean Hillary Supportthewar and Bill Endofwelfareasweknowit?

who do nothing but lie, smear and distort about Democrats.

are they real Democrats? I remember back in the 2004 race for the nomination, there were a lot of individuals on DU at that time that just wanted to screw things up for the Democratic Party. Seventhson, an avid Dean supporter, turned out to be a Rethug plant and admitted so on election night. And, one of our members even paid for his star because he said he couldn't afford it. Ha,ha,ha,

just rubber stamp everything with a D after it we arent any smarter than a chimp
recognizing the faults of party members is not a betrayal
that would be something like......
endorsing the other parties candidate over a member of your own party

overlooked it back then, thinking they were a positive influence on the Party.

Boy, have I re-evaluated that. We created a monster. Now that monster is set on "self-destruct".

to criticise them for a whole mess of contempt heaping worthy fuck-ups and sell outs.

One thing is certain, the Clintons were extremely unhealthy for the Democratic Party as a whole.

So, yes they were but the Repos helped keep it covered up by attacking them on a mostly fantasy demonization level.

their behavior now is a real wake up call.

why should I think your right about Obama?

is that what's going on here?

feel better?

They pulled the same kitchen sink shit against Jerry Brown in '92. Back then, they were spreading lies about him hosting "drug parties" while he was governor.

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was a healthy economic period, a balanced budget, almost no U.S. military lives lost, all during a hostile Congress. Ok, a BJ or two in the White House; however, no lives lost from that sexual caper. Now, imagine those good times under Clinton and his wife all occurring when most of you Obama surrogates were worrying about your pimples and whether your parents would you the money for your next music album. Oh yes, the Clinton years were just horrible!

The Great Dr. Gonzo himself.

http://www.the-write-stuff.com.au/archives/vol-1/reviews/hunter.html

http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/graffiti/hunter.htm

They didn't get to the presidency in '93 by being nice. Then the incredibly partisan politics of the Monica Lewinsky scandal and just generally being up against a Republican majority for Bill's presidency further hardened them.

Certainly now they're using every dirty trick in the book b/c they knew she couldn't win on a level personality/hope-based playing field. Obama's a Muslim. Obama's a terrorist. Obama's pastor is black and angry! But it seems to be working.

This article suggests white America would rather see a devil-worshiper than an angry black guy (In Light of Obama Pastor Scandal, Hillary "Thankful" to Worship Devil):

http://www.thearch-info.com/News/Politics/Hillarys_Underground_Network.html

Funny, but it's just so sad that the campaign has deviated from the issues and is on this disgusting, mud-slinging, racial level. The Clintons and the media are to blame.

has been reduced to mud slinging racial level instigated by the Obama people. Barrack is to blame and the Media is also. They want Obama because their corporate masters want the repuks to win. What is the matter with you people? Your not thinking.

Right.

nor by many other Democrats.

Many Dems never did support the triangulating, the centrism, the neo-liberalism, etc.

I've seen many grievances discussed on this site over the years... her unpopularity as a candidate here is really not surprising at all.

Bill was a very good President. But what he did during elections and during his private time was horrible. After all, he patterned himself after JFK.

That is all. America has been without leadership for 30 years.

Vote for a leader

why have so many people that have known them both for many years, have now chosen not to support or endorse her candidacy. Senators, house reps, even Richardson who was appointed to the clinton cabinet.
People who have known them for many years and worked closely with the both of them, don't like them for the most part. That speaks volumes in my opinion.

under the bus when they believe it necessary.

If a supporter needs to be sacrificed so be it.

Sigh!

didn't your Leader throw his foreign policy adviser (Powers?)under the bus? See, even the Anointed One has a human temper!

I used to think it was irrational. When you are on the receiving end of their dishonesty, parsing, triangulating, power grabs you want to go to Arkansas and look for dirt yourself!!!!

She cannot win. All she can do is destroy the party. Why is she doing this? The answer has to be ego and a sense of entitlement.

barf

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I have supported the Clintons against the right and the left for years. I would love to see a woman president and I supported Hillary until a few months ago.

She has run a horrible campaign (I worked on her campaign in my state for a time, support from above was nonexistent). She has associated herself with Penn and Wolfson who are stupid, mean spirited, spin doctors. Either that or she is SO bad they are softening her in the public's eye?

She has NO CHANCE OF WINNING IN 2008 so she is throwing it to McCain so if he only does one term, she can run in 2012 and maybe we'll have forgotten how horrid she was this year.

Or that she voted for the Iraq war when any thinking American knew it was BS.

I have more in common with Hillary than any canidate in my life. Women, lawyers, married to lawyers who are politicians, feminist, one child. But I feel like I don't have a clue who she is. She seems more like a republican to me than anything. Party (self?) first, country last.

on Travelgate or Filegate (I don't count the Monica hooh haw).

I do not believe you will find it very flattering.

Bottom line like Bush when it suited the Clinton's they were every bit as evasive and "gee I do not remember" as the GOP.

Not to mention numerous attempts at invoking executive privilege.

I know they are to be held just short of a Deity, and Bush (correctly IMHO) just shy of Satan.

But every once in while we should maybe take a more objective look at the whole of the Clinton experience circa 92-2000.
:hide:

you don't know much about the Starr investigations as the only person that was charged was a lawyer in the Clinton's law office named Hubble I believe. He was charged with over-billing a client. Not much after spending 10 million dollars,right? Now, you also have to consider all the House investigations by the Rethug Congressman from Indiana. Again, nothing! The Clintons have been the most investigated politicians in modern times. How about your Man? It appears the money that Rezko contributed to Obama seems to be growing with time. Problems with memory for the Messiah? It appears he forgot that he was in church hearing some of Wright's hateful sermons. Memory problems? What is next for the MSM to expose on Obama?

the final report found Mrs. Clinton to be factually untruthful or words to that affect.

In all but the word the report found that Mrs. Clinton did in fact lie to investigators and to investigating committees.

One of the things that annoys me is that we as Democrats went to great lengths to in some respects sacrificed a part of our souls ignoring the lying the Clinton's did while in power.

Were they unfairly pursued by the GOP?? Most likely, but consider that if the GOP is not given a reason to investigate in the first place (Travelgate et al) then none of this need to happen.

Screaming the big bad GOP bogey man is one way to handle it, but we are rightly outraged at the Bushies using and abusing power,then why should Bill and Hillary get a pass (and again I stress I am not counting the Lewinsky mess).

There were enough other things that set off fire storms that were of a more legitimate nature.

Personally I had a very big problem with Filegate.

I dealt with raw FBI files while in the USN and I can tell you they were not something to be messed with lightly information that was not true was contained in them (with the notation that this accusation could not be corroborated).

That they were in a down stairs office of the white house being dealt with by a political flunky/hack was to me just short of outrageous, and IMHO it has never been explained properly.

But in the end my main point is that the GOP can and will bring these thing up again should Hillary be our nominee.

And that should be considered.

the Sistah Souljah incident was an eye opener for me. That's when he lost the Hero status in my eyes and became a "typical".

But as another poster said, we didn't have a choice in the 1990's.

to me? It's not racist is it?

What we are seeing today is not new behavior, it's just a bit more public today than it was in previous years.

Bill has the ability to charm everyone so we all forgive him a lot and ignore the negative.

couldn't be skewed because your candidate lost?

I feel so damn stupid.

...been depleted from Hillary

to be horrible people has been supressed in Hillary? Yes, I agree 100%. :>)

don't you want people to know you've only been posting here for a week or so?

That's just how he rolls. :eyes:

I was a supporter and now feel like they lied and scammed me just to gain power. Now Hillary is lying about all kinds of stuff and I think it is just to get elected. I don't feel like they care about me at all.

In fact I am getting real tired of most politicians. They all say these wonderful things that get me involved but once elected nothing ever happens.

I guess I should get used to it as I can't see it changing anytime soon.

and say that you don't know how people will behave in unfamiliar situations. :(

Sure, when they win they're great folks. They led this country well - and I have nothing but respect for Bill and Hillary Clinton, winners.

But he is a sore loser - and when he loses, he gets MAD. He's losing, and as a result, he's losing it.

Hillary's bio-pic is pretty clear about that ~ it's just that this time they have a more formidable opponent than they planned for and are running out of moves.

The Clintons don't seem to care about me and will tell me one thing to make me happy and another person another thing to make them happy.

That doesn't work anymore for me. The media is doing a better job at holding their feet to the fire and not letting them get away with this crap.

The blogs seem to be the reason and making the regular media look foolish for not covering the lies and deception.