**Sign the Petition - Speak Up for MI and FL Dem voters **

Millions of people in Florida and Michigan went to the polls to make their voices heard in the Democratic Presidential primary. They deserve to have their votes count.

Add your name to show your support for seating the Florida and Michigan delegates at the Democratic National Convention in Denver this August.


http://www.hillaryclinton.com/action/flmi/

Contact the news media and let them know the MI and FL voters should have their votes counted


http://www.congress.org/congressorg/dbq/media/

..sorry - Florida and Michigan were told up-front if they move up their Primary, their dfelegates will not be seated. Those were the rules - they were told up-front, they chose to move it up anyways - thus are the consequences. No, it isn't fair to the voters - they can take it out on their respective State legislatures. A re-vote and then they can be seated - or split the delegates 50/50 but they shouldn't be seated 'as is'.

Good luck finding the Electoral Votes in November to make up for McCain's victories in FL and MI. But on the bright side, you'll still be able to chant the infantile, empty, and incorrect mantra that it's the fault of the people of those states.

Nope. It's the legislature's fault. So, we should change the rules half way thru the game? Have the people bombard their State Government for a re-vote or acceptable solution.

Not the voters fault. A 50/50 split would be the same as not being counted. These voters do not need disenfranchised. Count the votes or have a re-do, either way.

Not counted. If they don't favor her. Her strategy is to allow the primaries to continue, then at the convention, disregard the results if they don't favor her.

Since there is a risk that a revote wouldn't favor Hillary, it seems silly to spend the money since that result won't count. It's not practical.

Yeah, right. Millions? Dozens would be closer to it. Florida had a record turnout. The increase was in line with other states, too. Those "millions" are solely the product of your imagination.

Honestly, when McCain is sworn in some of you folks are going to look back on FL and MI and kick yourselves.

And rightfully so.

no doubt about it. Secondly, it's idiotic to predict a McCain win. You must be completely out of touch or ignorant to not get that:


IT'S THE ECONOMY, STUPID!

If there were an incumbent running this year, that ploy would work. Without one, that phrase will have no power. McCain can (and will) make promises. He'll say anything...and a certain percentage of people will believe him.

I'm actually amazed at how committed to losing the Democratic Party appears to be this year. Maybe that's a good thing. By 2012, things will be so screwed up that Mike Gravel could win.

I am stating in NO uncertain terms that we're dealing with a failing economy on a scale we haven't seen in over 70 years, and that's why the odds are very strong that the dem candidate will win in November. And sorry, McCain simply cannot win on the economy. If you don't understand how fucked we are economically NOW, you really need to educate yourself.

All McCain has to do is line up some "big name" economists to come up with "his plan" (which those same economists will of course endorse; and some slick marketers to come up with a bumper sticker slogan and the economy is a push as an issue.

Now, if McCain were the incumbent, I'd agree with you. He'd be doomed. But most Americans aren't going to blame McCain for the economy.

is getting better every day. The stock market jumps up and everything looks just peachy. By the time the fall comes, the media will have all the sheeple convinced that everything is getting better. They will likely lower the gas prices by October just to seal the deal. Then they will have Osama come out with a new videotape threatening America. They have done this crap before and they will do it again. Then everyone focuses back on Iraq and McCain comes out triumphant. Why are we so gullible? One more important thing: McCain is winning in ALL national polls putting him up against Obama or Clinton. Both of them are losing right now and we should quit being so divided or we are going to lose in November.

advantage when it comes to the economy and in bad economic times that margin historically increases. Sorry, McCain is screwed in this area.

However, historically speaking what evidence do you have to go on?

All I've heard from Barack Obama is more of the same...

Won't help Hillary, but all votes should count.

It's not the people's fault that the states and the party screwed this up.



And the Tired Old Man is the Enemy, not our primary opponents.

Thousands. New voters who just got turned onto what's going on because of Obama.

...I'd say that they could send in a notarized, hand written ballot that would be combined with the January vote and end this thing. But if the choices are throwing out 1.75 million ballots that were cast or forgetting the votes that weren't cast (which are really theoretical at this point), I'm for counting the votes.

I'm very open to not seating FL's superdelegates. In fact, I encourage it. They're a helluva lot closer to the bad decision than my wife and I ever were.

But being a republican state, I doubt they'd want to front the bill for that.

As an Edwards supporter, I recall watching what happened in Florida. IIRC, there was record turnout. At that time, people were assuming the problem would be resolved in some fashion.

I won't I will vote one way or another, because if you don't vote you have no right to complain.

...then I will take that as a "we don't want your vote" from the DNC. I will respect that sentiment in November, as will many other Floridians.

you wont vote? thats some good thinking there.

I'll be at the polls voting even if a late season hurricane blows through. If the DNC changes their message, allows full representation of our states at the convention as it was cast on January 29, and publicly apologizes then they may have my attention. If they keep their current line of reasoning they can expect me to vote against the Democratic presidential nominee come November, most likely follow that same motive when voting down ticket, and possibly do something childish like kick down Obama signs in the middle of the night. Most of my family, neighbors, and coworkers feel similarly. Many plan to vote Republican if a change is not made soon, some will stay home, some will vote green, and some are uncertain as to what they will do, still holding out hopes that the DNC will come to their senses so they don't have to vote against the Democracts. Not one has said they will vote Democrat no matter what yet. The clock is ticking...

How cute. You're spinning. Don't get dizzy. You could fall down and bump your head.

This petition doesn't count.

Although some may push for it to count later if they really need it.

Michigan and Florida will be seated at the Democratic National Convention. The Clinton camp is not interested in negotiating to resolve this issue now--only in trying to use it as a political cudgel--"We want to count your vote. Obama does not." Total disingenuousness.

he would not want them to be seated. So who is really being truthful? Politicians are politicians even if they are a "The next coming of Christ"

a political cudgel.

the truth is somewhere in the middle, but if you wish to become more of a Obama supporter of unity and changing the way politics is ran, just keep on pointing the finger and shouting liar. It is absolutely in the mold of the typical Obama supporter.

All one needs to do is un-subscribe from the list when it hits their email box the first time. If that is ignored then a quick add to the spam filter will do.

will get a result. That's the purpose of the petition.

Disenfranchising fellow Democrats is NOT the Democratic Party way. My great grandfather must be turning over in his grave.

Your great grandfather can do a few extra barrel rolls for that too.

Just how many and in what proportion has to be worked out.

I don't think an online petition will carry any weight.

Robert Wexler has held an online petition for the past several months on holding impeachment hearings and his list is being entered into the congressional records. The Internet is a tool and its use does not invalidate a petition.

Unless petitions overturn court rulings.

:wtf:

Me, I'm in favor of contracts. Things don't work well without them.

MI and FL Democratic Parties violated their contract with the DNC. They deserve what they get.

This has nothing to do with contract law.

Seems to me that it's simply a contract between two parties, and one party chose to not honor their commitment.

What am I missing?

In exchange for state democratic committees playing by the DNC's rules, the DNC allows them a say in the nomination process.

Is that not correct, or is this not sufficient consideration?

Or in other words, the promises implicated here are simply not the sorts that are enforceable in a court of law.

to the party of just count some of the votes. This party does not stand for that.. We stand for count every vote... Regardless of the mess that their leaders should assume full responsibility for, the people's voice and choice are being silenced.. I can't support that no matter what....

Why should we overlook the fact that these elections were labeled as invalid (aka "beauty contests) with no delegates to be awarded?

Here's an analogy... it's football season, and teams are trying to make the playoffs. The NFL suddenly decides that the pre-season games are now going to count as if they were regular season games. Would that be fair? Obviously not - teams play pre-season games differently - different players are used, different goals are set for the game, etc.

Here's another analogy - your neighbor is throwing a big poker tournament at his house. He finds out that the legality of doing so is questionable, so he announces it's a fake-money tournament - no one will actually win or lose real money. Then when the tournament is winding down, he gets a call from a legal expert, and suddenly announces that everyone who played in the tournament will have to pay real money to the eventual winners. Fair?

those states that have screwed this up... I am a firm believer that all should be a part of our nomination process and I hope they can work out a compromise....

This whole process has been one big screw up, but if nothing else, Democrats should try to make everyone's vote count.

Clinton and Obama's camps are using James Baker/Karl Rove doublespeak and I don't like it one bit.

I don't think Hillary can win even with MI and FL, so why not make a effort to count the people's votes?

Because that election was not handled properly does not magically make invalid primary elections this year valid.

As far as making an effort to count people's votes, that's exactly what should happen, as long as those votes are made in valid elections.

I do not want invalid election results to have a decisive say-so on the nomination process. So let them have their delegates after the nomination is decided. And the whining and moaning from Florida and Michigan voters will not garner a lot of sympathy from people in states that often don't play a decisive role in the nomination process - how often do these late-voting states have any real effect on the nomination? These things are usually all wrapped up by the 10th-20th state.

.....it isn't fair to the people at all - but should we now give in even tho they knew up-front what would happen? Then next time - no matter what the Legislature of a State does we go ahead an let them get away with it no matter how unfair it is? The people of Florida and Michigan need to get on their State Government, rally for a re-vote and make it known to their State Governments that they will suffer consequences (they want to be re-elected, I'm sure) if they do not come up with something reasonable, acceptable and fair.

of having no voice at all... :hi:

the next time Dems come across more chicanery and vote tampering by the GOP. We will look like hypocrites for not standing up for our own party members right to have their votes counted.

Unless we resolve this, we're giving the GOP a big, fat "get out of jail free" card for when they steal the next election. You can count on it, Tucker Carlson was smirking about it on CNN the other night.

If you wanted to not seat Michigan's super delegates I would sign it. They are the ones that led this screw up and when I vote I won't forget. Levin will never again get my vote. I will vote for our selection for President who ever it is and I would wish all others to do the same. Howard Dean is correct in the way he is handling this mess.

K&R
:kick:

October 11, 2007
Flashback: Does Michigan Matter to Clinton?

Hillary Clinton, during which she was asked about the Michigan primary:

"I personally did not think it made any difference, whether or not my name was on the ballot. You know, it's clear, in this election they're having, it is not going to count for anything."

http://www.youtube.com/user/MDRUDGE

Thanks so much.

It was planned that way. There were lines at the polls (early voting in middle of the day) when I went.

Were there really that many who stayed home? We were there anyway so may as well vote in the primary, whether it counted or not.

The national media seems to be ignoring what really brought people to the polls that day. Anyway, I say NO to the OP.

What's so friggin hard for you to understand that our states broke the rules, knowing full well in advance that our votes would not count. And no, it wasn't just Charlie Crist and the GOP that was behind Florida's move, our state Democrats were just so gung-ho to leap-frog everyone else.

I seem to recall your candidate saying that she supported the DNC decision at the time, and that she would not campaign in either state (of course, she held several highly visible "fundraisers" in Florida with lots of media coverage).

How come Hillary waited until AFTER the Florida & Michigan primaries to speak up? Why didn't she demand their votes count before? None of you have EVER given a satisfactory answer to that.

It's okay, I'm sure you'll respond with an insipid one-liner that doesn't address the question I just asked.

......she would be perfectly happy with not seating Florida and Michigan Delegates. She would cite the same thing we are saying - ya broke the rules and there is your consequence.

......that's why she didn't speak up before.....she wanted to see from which direction the wind was blowing first.

Could it be that we do not need to explain the position of Clinton due to the fact that our objective is to insure that our vote is counted and we are represented? I didn't vote for Clinton, but I want my vote counted along with the rest of the responsible citizens of my state that took the time to fulfill their civic duty. This has nothing to do with Clinton for me. I find it odd that many Obama supporters from Florida and Michigan are willing to sacrifice their vote so long as their candidate wins.

so no I don't feel I'm sacrificing my vote.
I really do wish people would understand that there is a difference between Fl.who had all the candidates on the ballot and Mi. that didn't.

Ah so since you assume the candidate you would have voted for will win the nomination, you are OK with tossing democracy out the window because you think you will have a second chance to vote for him against a different field of candidates. My guess is that you're not a very good neighbor considering you're perfectly happy tossing everyone else's votes out the window with you own.

You do realize that Obama supporters in your state are in the minority don't you. Clinton earned 55% in your state. Dodd earned 1% in your state. Edwards received 15% in exit polls in your state. Kucinich received 4% in your state. Furthermore the large draft Gore constituency in your state also voted uncommitted. When it comes down to it Obama supporters probably accounted for at most 23% in your state, but you're OK with the other 77+% losing their voice. How nice of you.

By the way your candidate chose to remove his name from the ballot. Both of the current leading candidates chose not to campaign in our states. We had all 8 names on our ballot. You had less due to bad decision by a few candidates. Would it not be fair to send uncommitted delegates to the convention that chose to not vote the first round due to a pledge not to be committed. Then when a second vote occurs let them decide what they think is right for the constituents of your state?

and they'd like some help in getting the DNC to count their votes.

nt

You know, the ones who had to vote "undicided". How are you going to count their votes?

Oh, wait, I keep seeing the word Hillary in your post. Never mind.

And, FL and MI are fighting them every step of the way.

The pi$$ing contest has gone on long enough.

Reasonable parties can, and have tried to, reach a resolution on this issue, but Obama's campaign keeps obstructing the process. If that's the way he would operate in the WH, forget it. He should get out of race now, just to save us from making the mistake of electing another egotistical, power hungry jerk to the WH.

I'm sorry, but FL and MI made their bed and now they have to sleep in it. EVERYONE knew what the rules were before this whole thing started, so why are they crying about it now? I lived in Hawaii most of my life. By the time we got to vote for anything, the primaries were basically over. By the time our polls closed during the GE, the winner had already been declared. We knew that's how it was and we lived with it. We didn't try to change the rules mid-stream when we our favorite candidate wasn't chosen.

That's how these things get resolved, ya know. Working out a compromise, the same as the party did with the other states who violated some of the same rules.

Punishment, meted out in Obama's paranoid obstructionism, is not a compromise. Two states have been singled out and their votes not counted, simply because Obama was afraid he wouldn't win them.

That's not the Democratic Party way. Not now, not ever.

Clinton stated hers quite clearly from the beginning; a caucus in each state was an affordable and easily executable solution, but she isn't organized well enough, so she rejected the idea immediately. Is that obstruction? By your definition, yes.

And who do you think derailed the process in Michigan? It was the state senate, not Obama.

Enough nonsense, okay? You can stick a feather in a cow pie, but that doesn't mean it will fly.

...that was already settled before the process began? Because you didn't know you'd be losing the race and now you want a do-over?

:kick: