Libertarian Convention

It's on C-SPAN all weekend. The thing about the Libs that is worth noting is that they are able to communicate their message, which is complicated and non-intuitive for a public trained to respond only to the two parties, in a concise and coherent manner, despite their obvious organizational insufficiencies.

It's always interesting to listen to them -- details of message aside, they have directness and honesty that is attractive, and which we are in need of projecting ourselves.

The most frustrating thing about being a Dem is knowing that our message would sell to the large majority if we were able to project it, while watching us constantly shooting ourselves in the head through our internal bickering and pandering.

I imagine it'll be less worrisome when we have to run against them after we destroy the Republican party as we've done to the Federalists and Whigs.

...It seems that if the Republican Party does die. Then the libertarian wing will head to the (surprise!) Libertarian Party; and the authoritarian, Neo-Conservative wing will head to the Constitution Party.

"I imagine it'll be less worrisome when we have to run against them after we destroy the Republican party as we've done to the Federalists and Whigs."

Now that's a really good point, never thought of it that way.

The last guy ran 3 times for president and didn't draw a million votes. That is NOT getting their message out. especially when Buchanan and Nader cream him.

They are a hopeless lost cause. When people are in control they do not spend less. Remember these repukes and term limits and deficits. I rest my case. The only true, good libertarian that makes any difference is Ron Paul.

I think the Libertarians are awesome...They have been consistently against Bush on practically everything. They are consistently anti-war (including the DRUG WAR)...They fought against the patriot act...They HATE Ashcroft and the fundie influence on government...they are pro-choice on everything...gay marriage, abortion rights, etc. they simply see no reason for government to be involved in any of these issues. The only area I disagree with them is on economic policy, but at least they are CONSISTENT in wanting less government in every area of our lives. I really hope they can build the movement up and give America another option. Ditto for the socialists and every other 3rd party.

You should remember that the Libertarians' economic policies are psychotically anti-regulation and anti-tax, taking the standing that the environment and foreign slave labor are there for the entrepreneur's benefit. The environment, civil rights, foreign and domestic workers' rights, public education, etc., are all things that free-market Libertarians would allow to suffer at the hands of the Market.

The leadership of the Club for Growth and Grover Norquist ("Bi-partisanship is like date-rape.") are both hard-core Libertarians... I don't see much to like there, let alone love.

I frankly don't find consistency to be much of a virtue; it's like the defenders of Bush saying he's an excellent leader because he does what he says, even though the "what" is so filled with lies and idiocies, he'd change his mind if he had any sense. As for Libertarians, using one already-poor theory of economics and applying it to everything under the sun is a sign of mental retardation, not of virtuous consistency.

If the Dems and Libertarians were the primary two parties, and we fought every four years over economic policy, with privacy and civil liberties completely protected.

We would have to give on some things, though. Nobody is stornger on gun rights than the Libertarians, and the "won't someone think of the children" laws would take a beating, too.

I can live with both of those things, though, and I'd love to debate Libertarians in a meaningful arena on economic policy. At least they have internally-logical and intelligible policy, rather than the GOP's rush to transfer all wealth from the midle class to the rich as fast as possible.

we were debating over how progressive the tax code should be (and not whether we should have one) and how much is the right amount of regulation to make capitalism work for the majority of Americans (and not whether we should have regulation at all).

I think of the Libertarians as taking positions farther to the right of Republicans on some very important policy questions, and it would be a step backwards (or several steps backwards) for political compromise to orient itself somewhere in the middle of an axis with Libertarians and Democrats at the poles.

business so big that they become the govt. Big Oil etc

Russo (one of their candidates) was going on and on today that this has become a fascist country, in which the government and big business have combined to restrain competition.

One example is that the Libertarians oppose the military contractors' involvement in Iraq (because defense is one of the few areas they see as appropriate to government, and they want to see a firewall between government and business). Another is that Libertarians think pharm policy forces de facto government sponsored monopolies. And yet another is thyeir opposition to the war, which they contend is a wholly owned subsidiary enterprise of Big Oil.

This isn't an ad for them, since in my dream world we run against them and thrash them. But to say they favor big business just aint correct.

Rooting for the Mets, however, is most definitely correct! ;-)

...anything and the end result will be the same: the biggest businesses will make all the rules.

Size begets size in business, and the purpose of the government is to promote competion. Competition delivers value to consumers. The government has to prevent monopolies and allocated costs and benefits properly (through taxes and regulations) or we should end up in a free market with the same thing the Republicans are bringing us through regulation.

There problem isn't that business runs gov't so much as it is how it got to that point.

Libertarianism is Plutacracy all dressed up. I can't believe anyone thakes them seriously.

Those jugs, err I mean drugs.

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The only guy I've seen in person who could work the crowd better is Jesse Jackson,l and that includes Bill.

Badnarik has a lot of work to do just shoring up his own "base" (all 3% of it).