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"A Painful Lie" (HospitalGate family speaks out, and they are NOT happy)

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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 08:57 PM
Original message
"A Painful Lie" (HospitalGate family speaks out, and they are NOT happy)
Yes, this is the Post -- but I have been checking off and on all day to see if anyone else picked up the story. It was apparently an exclusive interview granted the Post.

Take that for what its worth.

Personally, I could care less about Right, Left, Middle -- the family is pissed about how their daughter was represented in HRC's stump speeches and rightfully so. Michael Moore had over 27,000 submissions of under-coverage in his research to film SiCKO. There are plenty of stories out there where shit doesn't need to be made up for political expediency.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04062008/news/nationalnews/a_painful_lie_105295.htm

April 6, 2008 -- Hillary Rodham Clinton "misspoke" again on the campaign trail - and a distraught Ohio family is furious about it.

Several times in recent months while talking about her plan for universal health care, Clinton told a tale of woe about a young pregnant woman who sought medical care at a local hospital and was turned away for lack of insurance - and both she and the baby died.

But the family of the 35-year-old woman - Trina Bachtel - says the story is simply not true.

"Trina had good insurance. She was a good girl, and she worked hard. That story made her look like she was a welfare bum," her 80-year-old grandmother May Mayle told The Post yesterday.

Mayle confirmed that Bachtel died last August from complications related to a late-pregnancy miscarriage, but said she was never turned away from a hospital.

"The family is real torn up about it. I can't understand why they'd make her out to look like she was so unstable," said Mayle.

As Clinton told the story during campaign rallies, the young, pregnant woman in difficulty was turned down for treatment because she was uninsured and couldn't pay $100 up front.

She didn't name Bachtel or the hospital involved, but after the Washington Post ran a story identifying her and where she worked - a Pizza Hut in Pomeroy, Ohio - local papers made it front-page news, horrifying her still-grieving family.

"Of course she would have had $100," fumed Mayle. "Her boyfriend's real angry about it, too, because he had good insurance. They were going to get married, but worked so hard they couldn't find the time."

Clinton apparently learned of the story from one of her local supporters, Deputy Sheriff Bryan Holman. He told papers he heard it secondhand from Bachtel family members. At an event with Sen. Clinton, he related it to her.

"She tells the story as it was told to her by the deputy sheriff," a Clinton spokesperson said. "She had no reason to doubt his word."

Mayle said Bachtel went to the O'Bleness Memorial Hospital on Aug. 4 for a routine check-up and was told her baby was stillborn.

"They told her to come back the next day, and she did, and they made her deliver the baby even though he was dead. Then she just didn't get better."

The family transferred her to a different facility in Columbus, where she died Aug. 17.

The Clinton camp told papers it had tried to check out as much of Holman's story as was possible, but hadn't been able verify all the details.


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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. No one seems to give a rat's ass about the family....
I feel for them. Check what you feel are "facts" before spewing them.

K&R
:kick:
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formernaderite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
61. agreed but I've still not heard anyone in Hills camp
explain how she didn't know federal law as it relates to emergency treatment? Weird considering she sells herself as MS. Healthcare.
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JayFredMuggs Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #61
130. Yeah, she's ALL image, no knowledge of facts
be it health care, or IWR, she doesn't care!
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #61
143. Yes, because hospitals never illegally turn people away from treatment
And I have this bridge for sale, real cheap...
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formernaderite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #143
147. right you are...they can sooo afford law suits
oh please...this may have been an issue 30 years ago....but no hospital would be stupid enough to do this. Every aspect of care is pre-managed, coded and prototypical...have you never noticed that at reception they merely keystroke the given fields? Most medical facilities are part of larger groups and corporations...their cadre of lawyers have dotted each "i".
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ORDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
90. It was just a convenient story for HRC to help show she is "human".
She couldn't give a rat's ass about the woman or her family, else she would have made a personal apology already. Political expediency, that's all she frickin' cares about.

:dem:
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Alter Ego Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #90
108. So many women have "grabbed her arm" at campaign stops
that I guess she lost track.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
138. this family is being hounded by this story and its so awful. she should
have checked the story and if true, asked the family's PERMISSION to tell it. She did neither and now a family mourning A DEATH has to do this all over again. I hope they tear her a new ass. If this had happened to me, I would campaign actively for the other side.
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. I feel horrible for the family
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. It is hard to understand this lack of professionalism. nt
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
98. Obviously, Clinton and her campaign...
are NOT professionals.
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pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. She hadn't been able to verify any of the WMDs either.
No matter ...full speed ahead!!!
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Wait a minute - I think you're on to something - with all the outsourcing
the Bush administration does - maybe Bush used the same people to confirm the existance of the WMDs that Hillary used to vet this story!
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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. You have a point there.
I mean Clinton voted for the war she thought was going to turn up WMDs.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. I am reminded of the Mayberrys of Tennessee.
They lived in a little shabby house on the property owned by Al Gore's family. Someone brought them to public attention, and the VRWC went into overdrive, slinging mud all over the place. Then conservatives decided that the Mayberry family needed to live in a better house, and actually moved them hundreds of miles away. The furor in the press over this was just nuts.

Where are the Mayberrys now? What happens to all these people who are used by the campaigns and the media to try to score one point against the opposition?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. Al Gore sure wouldn't get away with
a story from the m$$$$$m, he hadn't vetted.

She got it from one of her supporters, eh? Yeah.
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fed-up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. they made her wait a day w/a stillborn inside her???
I am not a doctor, but that just doesn't sound right to me

from the story:

Mayle said Bachtel went to the O'Bleness Memorial Hospital on Aug. 4 for a routine check-up and was told her baby was stillborn.

"They told her to come back the next day, and she did, and they made her deliver the baby even though he was dead
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. The hospital is not looking good in this
but I'm not a doctor either.

The campaign should have checked with the family before using the story though. As was suggested on another thread, a little research probably could have turned up court cases that could have been used to illustrate the point about health insurance, and then the facts would have been documented.

I kind of feel bad for the Hillary campaign in this - I certainly don't think there was any ill intent here, just they didn't consider the possibility that the story the sheriff told was mangled and could cause problems. That seems an unprofessional kind of mistake though.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
43. Hillary probably didn't even know the woman's name.
Campaign apparently didn't.
She never named the woman, she never named the hospital.
She didn't slander anyone as DUbamas claim.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #43
92. Saying a hospital willingly let people die over a fee is slander.
No other way to spin it.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #43
99. Therefore......
It's not Hillary's fault!
It's not Hillary's fault!
It's not Hillary's fault!

ipso facto.
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #43
131. Would Hillary repeat any juicy story that was told to her, without checking it out?
I've heard some whoppers--those "friend of a friend" stories. I do repeat them sometimes in casual conversation, but I would never repeat them in a major speech.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
79. Questions like that show why stories like this can back fire.
Edited on Sun Apr-06-08 11:14 PM by hedgehog
Without knowing all the details, there may have been good reasons to proceed as they did. Maybe allowing nature to take its course is the best option. We've seen our share of garbled stories here at DU.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
86. I want to know what happened, a woman is dead
from childbirth for chrissake, and that just should not happen anymore, except in very rare circumstances. When is somebody going to care enough about this dead woman and child to ask a question. I'm more angry at Hillary's campaign for not holding anyone accountable, then for speaking about it without getting all the facts.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #8
88. no.. it is not out of the ordinary..it`s not an emergency
a friend of mines wife went a week before they did this procedure..
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
125. It sounds odd to me that someone with insurance went to
a hospital for a checkup. Most women with insurance go to their doctor's office for a routine checkup.
Does Pizza Hut have a benefits package that includes insurance?
How pregnant was she?
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Madam Mossfern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
150. That happened to me
I went for amnio and they found that the baby had died. I had to wait a few days before I could go back to the hospital for a procedure to remove it. It was quite emotionally traumatic.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. Who named the family w/o their permission? The hospital and the WaPo.
Edited on Sun Apr-06-08 09:16 PM by McCamy Taylor
Hillary told an anonymous story. Even the family did not know it might be about them. It was the hospital that violated confidentiality. Where is the outrage? Is everyone here ok with hospitals spreading peoples medical records around? No one would every have known anything about it. Maybe the family did not want people to know she was pregnant.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. No, Hillary did not tell an anonymous story. She made one up.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
49. You have it completely wrong
The Washington post reported it. But it wasn't a secret; there were death notices for both her and her child in the local paper, the Pomeroy Daily sentinel. I see no evidence to suggest the hospital released it; meantime, the hospital was named int he death notices.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. Clinton spokesperson said. "She had no reason to doubt his word."
That's the real kicker because if Clinton knew anything about health care policy she would have known the story was implausible as she told it.

This was a huge charge for Clinton to make without being 100% sure of its veracity.

It was just plainly irresponsible on her part.

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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
144. How does it show she knew nothing of health care policy?
Oh, are you saying that because a hospital is *supposed* to actually treat anyone who comes in through the emergency room for care? And I'm sure you also know that whether it IS an emergency is usually left to the disrection of the PA, RN or maybe MD, right? And of course a hospital has no incentive whatsoever to label a problem non-emergency or simply get the patient stabilized and released or transferred. Because, you also know that is essentially the sum total of their obligations in this fucked up system we have, right?


For fuck's sake people, THINK for once. People on this site will use any justification to bash the other candidate rather than actually discuss the issues.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #11
151. "... as far as she knows..." n/t
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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. Clinton needs to offer a full and public apology for this.
At this point she needs to atleast try to keep some respect.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. No, the hospital needs to investigate who violated the families confidentiality.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
51. There were death notices in the local paper last August
No need for disclosure from the hospital at all.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
15. wow, this is really bad news for Hillary
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blonndee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
17. I don't see this as a big deal, except for the carelessness.
I seriously doubt that the Clinton campaign "tried to check out as much of Holman's story as was possible," since apparently nobody consulted the FAMILY. It seems like there was only one source for her version of it. And that was the version that "worked," so why dig too much deeper?

I really don't think this qualifies as a lie. Politically expedient exploitation of a complete stranger's tragedy, perhaps, but not quite a lie.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Do you want a president who repeats 3rd hand stories without vetting them?
I have to file that with "don't believe everything you read on the internet".
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blonndee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. What do you think?
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
60. Me? I am still waiting to hear where the WMDs are
;)
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. No, obviously I want the president that claims to have been a
professor.
Give me a break.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. Oh good then you're on the Obama bandwagon
Since the university stands by him and all.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Yea, the University said he served as a professor.
While he was a seniour lecturer. Horray. That's the one I want for president.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Then you'll be very happy when he's elected this coming November
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:44 PM
Original message
In my view, he has about as much a chance of being elected as
Edited on Sun Apr-06-08 09:50 PM by lizzy
Hillary getting the nomination.
Good luck with that.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #44
105. Obama was a professor and you are just embarassing yourself.
The college confirmed and left no doubt that Obama served as a professor:

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html

The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer."

From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.




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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #105
137. Just because he was regarded as a professor or served as a
professor doesn't make him a professor. He did not have a title of a professor.
He was a senior lecturer. Of course saying you are a lecturer is not as impressive as saying you are a professor.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #137
141. The University of Chicago said they considered him a professor.
Edited on Mon Apr-07-08 10:04 PM by Hissyspit
That makes him a professor.

You are being absurd.



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Fire_brand Donating Member (443 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #137
149. LOL, it's hard to tell if this is a sarcastic reply or not
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #44
128. Wow, a minority of you Hillary supporters...
...are the most whiny, eye-rolling cynics.

Obama is a Constitutional scholar.

He taught Constitutional Law, and other law classes, for more than a decade.

He was a professor, and the college says he was.

That's not good enough for you though. You must behave like a human
weed whacker--and tear into anything positive or uplifting--and shred it
with your worst-case, ill-informed negativity.

Who cares if your comment are true or not. Obama says he was a professor.
So does the University. But you know better.

It's so hard to even have a conversation with people like this. It's
like a whole other language from a planet I don't even want to know about.
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JayFredMuggs Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #128
132. Yes, this really disgusts me too!
These Hillary supporters used to be my friends, we used to have lively debates. Now the people on the Hillary side, (so UNknowlegable in the ways Universities hire and offer full tenure to people like Barack) want to make a big thing about this Univ of Chicago service as a Professor, as if he had to wear a crown on his head in order for these Hillary supporters to believe it.

These Hillary supporters are so incredulous of anyone except Bosnia-sniper-fire Hillary.

Geeesh, Give me an f'n break!
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #44
139. it amazes me how people can't allow a university to name their
personnel what they will. jeez.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #35
45. Glad to have you on board
(psst -- you DO know that this story WAS vetted, right?)
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. I am not on any board with you.
In fact I am fed up with this crap.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #35
101. OK.
You're on break. See you later.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #35
103. He was a professor.
Non-issue.
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catgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #35
119. He was a professor

You and Hillary have something in common.... making up false
info. and trying to spread it.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #17
110. I don't think so either
It is the carelessness that bothers me. She also should have realized that the names could become public, and that bothers me a lot.

Those things bother me more than it being a "lie." It just shows she wasn't thinking clearly.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
18. Ouch - A public apology is a MUST here
what possessed her campaign staff to let her use this story without at least confirming the facts, and getting permission from that poor family first?
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Good Question.
You're right, a public apology is a must.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. An apology from the WaPo
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. As Well as From HRC
for running with the story. I would expect the same out of any candidate.
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Levgreee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
65. Do you understand that this was very bad publicity for the hospital?
They have the right to defend their credibility. Should they let Hillary give out a false story about how they let a young woman die?
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catgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #65
121. The hospital should sue Hillary for libel

The thing is, many people don't see that a pathological liar shouldn't be president.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. She wasn't naming the woman or the hospital.
Why would she ask permission for a generic story?
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Because she added crap "facts" to the story that were not true.
How would you like if your family member's "incident" was used as stump fodder -- and then later connected the dots and realized that it was 90% fabrication?

Me, I would be pissed.

HRC supporters seem to just think this is the norm and that people are disposable. :shrug:
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. She didn't add any crap facts to the story.
The story was told to her by the sheriff and she repeated it, without naming the woman or the hospital. She might have not even known the woman's name. She never named the woman.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #32
50. Crap facts added:
Lie/embellishment for political sake #1. She earned minimum wage and lived off of tips at a pizza parlor

Fact: She was a salaried manager of Pizza Hut

Lie/embellishment for political sake #2: She had no health insurance and was denied care, causing her death

Fact: She HAD health insurance and wasn't denied anything. She died from complications from a still born birth.



Dear God -- are you so far gone that you don't even recognize lies when they are pointed out?
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. She was told the story by the sheriff. What the sheriff told her
doesn't seem to be accurate. She apparently believed the story as it was told to her.
I don't know if you are that far gone to accuse her of lying when it's clear she didn't make anything up.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. She Tuzla'd the whole thing.
Get back to me when you can show that the sheriff's story included her pay scale and insurance situation.

:hi:
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #55
63. Right here.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. Reading Comprehension: D-
Let me repeat the question:

Get back to me when you can show that the sheriff's story included her pay scale and insurance situation.


Thanks in advance!
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. Apparently you can't neither read nor see.
There is a link to the video in the story.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. I watched it. Question remains:

Get back to me when you can show that the sheriff's story included her pay scale and insurance situation.


:popcorn:
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JBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #52
116. Hillary: Ready to believe whatever she is told on Day One.
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #52
120. how about stupidity regarding anecdotal evidence?
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #52
126. She should have had her staff confirm the facts and get the family's permission to use the story
That's the least they should have done before adding it to a campaign speech.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #32
113. you really have yourself twisted in knots to spin your way out of her lies
you're going to strain a muscle or something.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #26
75. It wasn't a generic story, it was a well known local story.
If she wants to make up stories out of whole cloth, I haven't got a problem with it, except as it reduces her overall credibility, but she shouldn't be telling stories that are based on real people, and then making up a significant portion of them. The real people that are affected by this story-telling have every right to be upset.

When she tells one of these stories, she should offer a disclaimer, like they do with movies: "The events described in this speech are fictitious. Any similarity to any person living or dead is merely coincidental."
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #26
118. um Pizza Hut Pomeroy Ohio? Pomeroy is a small town with 1 PizzaHut
Pizza Hut

(740) 992-7000
415 W Main St
Pomeroy, OH
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
20. The WaPo printed the family's name here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/02/AR2008040203030_2.html?nav=hcmodule

But it is the story of the pregnant pizza worker to which Clinton comes back repeatedly. At a Democratic dinner on March 2, she recounted it in full. She told it at a late-night rally in Cleveland just two days before the Ohio primary March 4, bringing the noisy audience to near-silence. She told it again in Charleston, W.Va, last month. Even her daughter, Chelsea, who was with her mother in Ohio when she heard the story, repeated it at a campaign stop in Pennsylvania last week. Clinton was told the story by Bryan Holman, the Meigs County deputy sheriff, who said the deceased woman was Trina Bachtel, whom campaign officials had been unable to identify.

Bachtel, Holman said, had been turned away from the hospital not only for lack of $100 but also because she had unpaid bills -- a detail that Clinton has not mentioned. Public records show that Bachtel of Pomeroy, Ohio, died on Aug. 15, 2007, at age 35. She previously had thousands of dollars in hospital debt, but it was paid off by 2005.

"It was a really terrible story," said Holman, who said he voted for Clinton in the Ohio primary. He said he is grateful that she has taken Bachtel's story to heart. "That is what we wanted."


So the WaPo printed her name. Then the hospital came out and gave out details--again did they get a release from the family to talk about her case? Hillary never said her name. It was the WaPo that decided to snoop and put her name in the paper and it was the WaPo that did not investigate before it did that.

Hillary's story was generic. It could have been any one of dozens of people who have been turned away from ERs. The WaPo is the one who outed the woman.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. Or, she was caught (again) making shit up
You want to believe her? I am happy for you.

For the rest of us who don't take her at face value, here is the grandmother's response to the whole issue.

I will go with the family (and again, I could care less their political affiliations -- which are unknown. It was simply irresponsible and unnecessary).
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Can you read? She didn't make anything up. The story
Edited on Sun Apr-06-08 09:36 PM by lizzy
was told to her by the sheriff. The sheriff says he told Hillary this story and was happy she took it to heart. The story as told to Hillary by the sheriff might have not been accurate, but Hillary didn't make anything up.

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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #31
53. He told her about the death of the woman and her baby and that she worked for a pizza place
But not the insurance and minimum wage 'addons'. Those are Clintonian fabrications.

If you feel differently -- please do post a link to discredit that.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #53
62. He said the woman had no insurance.
Hillary simply repeated what she was told. Here is the link, complete wiht video.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/04/05/a_tragic_tale_but_is_it_true.html
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #62
68. He did? It isn't in your link...
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 10:14 PM
Original message
There is a link to a video in my link.
And never mind the article clearly states Hillary repeated the story almost exactly as she was told it.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
73. I watched it. Question remains:

Get back to me when you can show that the sheriff's story included her pay scale and insurance situation.


:popcorn:
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. WTF should I discuss anything with you?
You won't even acknowledge that Hillary was told by the sheriff the woman had no insurance.
By the way, WTF does pay scale has to do with any of it? When did Hillary say anything about the woman's pay scale?
Why don't you provide a link on that first?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #74
93. more obsession by BO fans.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #74
106. She was a salaried manager
HRC said she made minimum wage and lived off tips.

Making up shit out of whole cloth to make the story sound more tragic where there was no need for that. It is a sign of a pathological liar.
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #106
133. I find it strange that the BO supporters are so supportive
of a grandmother who seems outraged mostly by the impression HRC gave that her family was poor. Don't you think the outrage is misplaced?
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #106
135. That's because the sheriff said the woman was making minimal
wage. The whole tape of what the sheriff told Hillary is posted on talk left.
You are accusing Hillary of things she did not do.
She repeated a story told to her by the sheriff.
She didn't make anything up.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #31
109. She either believes everything she hears or makes things up
Either way, it is not good. The Presidency is an important job. One should suspect that when someone tells you something, especially when it is something you desperately want to believe, that the facts may be different.
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #31
112. Of course she didn't, Hillary NEVER makes anything up...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:




GOBAMA!
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #31
114. A DEPUTY sheriff in Ohio's poorest county - like he's an expert on hospital policy
or anything else to do with health care. Believe me, Yale Law taught HRC about rules of evidence and admissibility. The DEPUTY sheriff's tale was hearsay on hearsay.

However, he WAS a loyal supporter who had hosted Hillary in his home. And we've seen from her crack staff appointments that it's all about loyalty and not about competence and experience.
Guess he would be in line for a staff appointment - maybe she could name him Secretary of Health.

But not to worry about more poor choices on her part - because she has a snowball's chance in hell of getting the nomination.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. OK this makes more sense now
and it sounds like it's the Washington post that should have done a fact check. It really was hard to believe that she or her campaign staff would be so careless. Still, it would have been so easy to verify this anecdote before moving forward and using it. Shame this wasn't done - it probably will hurt Clinton and it is obvious that it already has hurt the family.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. It is incredibly hurtful to the family
And the fact that the WaPo can vet stories that the Candidate's team can't seem to verify is frightening...
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
57. BULLSHIT
This guy is the sheriff of Meigs County. The largest town in Meigs County is Pomery. The newspaper in Pomeroy is the Daily Sentinel. The Daily Sentinel carried death notices, with circumstances, dates and places for both Ms Bachtel and her child, in August 2007.

The only 'snooping' the WaPo did was to look up the notices in the local area newspaper. It's not rocket science, it's not breaking confidentiality, it's journalism 101.

For someone who touts their skill at media analysis, you seem to neither know or care about the most basic business of reporting a story. The WaPo certainly made the family's name into national news, but since Hillary Clinton was criss-crossing the country talking about the story that's a legitimate subject.
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #57
115. Important distinction - he was a DEPUTY sheriff, not an elected official.
Ya know, DEPUTY sheriff - think Barney Fife!
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
22. I feel bad for the family
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
30. Sen. Clinton owes them a huge apology. Now.
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StevieM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #30
82. She didn't do anything wrong. She repeated a story that was told to her by a local sheriff.
If Obama did this and people criticized him for it you would be outraged over the unfairness. Let's not forget the Kennedy story. But if you really want to hate her, and believe this garbage then I can't stop you. This story will not stand the test of history.

Steve
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #82
97. She should have verified it or corrected herself after the fact.
A simple "I got this from the Sheriff, but it turns out to be somewhat incorrect - here's the real story..." would be understandable and raise her credibility. But she's bothered to do nothing about it and that says that the truth is inconsequential to her.
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #97
129. Remember Obama's story about the officer in Afghanistan?
The lack of equipment because it was sent off to Iraq? That was based on something an officer told him and it wasn't factually accurate either. Whether it was wrong information from the officer, Obama's faulty memory, or enhancement on his part to make a point, I don't know. But I make the point just to say HRC is not the only one who needs to heed your advice.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #129
136. Obama's done the same things, but Hillary is the one who gets
picked on.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #82
122. And bush* repeated stories told to him by Ahmed Chalabi....
...about WMD in Iraq.

I see a HUGE judgement problem here.
Hillary's 35 years of experience = FAIL.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
33. I sympathize with the family, but it's too bad the grandmother comes off as so biased.
Her quote "Trina had good insurance. She was a good girl, and she worked hard. That story made her look like she was a welfare bum" makes it sound as if the only people who don't have health insurance are "bad" people who don't "work hard." And, of course, the phrase "welfare bum" speaks for itself.

Something tells me this grandmother wouldn't be too thrilled about Trina or her poor dead baby being referred to in similarly pejorative terms simply because Trina and the father of her child were not married (they were both "working so hard they couldn't find the time").

A vast number of people in the part of Ohio where they live are desperately poor, and it's through no fault of their own that they are on welfare. Many had fortunes tied to the coal-mining industry, and when it dried up, so did their jobs. It seems a bit uncharitable that those who were lucky enough to have jobs with health insurance should refer to those who don't as "welfare bums." If you're going to do that, you'd have to write off a huge chunk of southeastern Ohioans as "welfare bums."

Trina' story may not be a story of a person without health insurance who died because she went without it, but I'm sure you can find plenty of stories from that part of Ohio that would be true. And they might be about people on welfare, but they would not be about "bums."
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. So HRC should find a REAL one and talk about it to raise awareness
as opposed to making stuff up and in the process, peeling back scabs of this tragedy.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #33
76. Well, the grandmother's words are unfortunate
but on the other hand, she's not running for public office.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #33
87. I know, unnecessary shame
That's the part so many liberals don't understand. The only thing some poorer people have is what they consider their pride, their self-reliance. This poor grandma is being exploited too. It's just sad, all the way around.
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #87
124. Grandma sounds like a Republican
Did that ever occur to you? With that attitude toward welfare recipients, I think it's a probability. Then, one has to question her outrage----politically motivated?
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
34. This is VERY bad news for Hillary.
This is worse than Bosnia IMO. Hillary slandered this poor dead woman and a "welfare bum." This is horrible!!!
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this. Hillary never
named the woman, let alone said the woman was on welfare. By the way if the woman was on welfare, she would have had medicaid.
By the way, do you think everyone on welfare is a bum? Are you slandering those people who are on welfare?
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. If it wasn't for her repeated, DAILY lie fest
People may not feel the need to double check everything that comes out of her mouth.

She has plunged the knife back into this family and for nothing good to come out of it. Her story wasn't true, and in retrospect, there are hundreds of thousands of under-insured stories that NEED air time. All ignored so that Hillie can make shit up.

Sorry, not giving her a pass on this one.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
39. way to fuck up, Hillary
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InAbLuEsTaTe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
40. Hillary should be ashamed, but she has no shame. It's all about her.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
48. Omg. It just gets worse every day.
This poor family.
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #48
56. This I can agree with
Everyone else is so caught up in their "reasons" they're over looking the victims, and their feelings in all this. The family of this woman are suffering. Hello? Are we not supposed to care about that?

I wish others could imagine what it must be like for these people to see their loved one becoming political fodder such as this.

All of this hits way too close to home for me to be political about it.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #56
70. This family is much more important to me than either campaign.
Of course you understand. :hug:
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #48
59. I know can you imagine
They've lost a family member and then with no permission of their own are thrown into a political campaign.

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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
54. This is really scandalous.
You just don't go around telling stories about people without 1). Verifying that they are true -AND- 2). Asking permission from the family.

It's unacceptable to use people like this.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
58. Problem is Hillary looks sloppy. She doesn't fact check well
and her due diligence isn't there.
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
64. wouldn't Hillary's solution have been
to scold the woman for not buying health insurance???
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. Yes -- and garnish her pay
Wrong meme though as Trina DID have medical coverage.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
66. “We implore the Clinton campaign to immediately desist from repeating this story.”
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
77. The Author of this Wrote for the Village Voice and is a good reporter
Which, I thought was a pretty good paper.



A World Without Water
Advocates Warn of Thirst and Turmoil for a Parched Planet
by Ginger Adams Otis
August 20th, 2002 ; http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0234,otis,37614,1.html

Racism and Reproductive Rights
GINGER ADAMS OTIS | The March for Women's Lives is paying considerable attention to issues of concern to minority women.
May 10, 2004 The Nation: http://www.thenation.com/directory/bios/ginger_adams_otis



Alternet:
Stories by Ginger Adams Otis
Base Problems
A new law may raise awareness about sex-trafficking, but it won't stop it until the U.S. address the economic issues that force women and children to sell themselves.
Posted on Apr 29, 2004

Racism and Reproductive Rights
Shining more light on the issues of minority women at Sunday's March for Women's Lives will create more awareness of the ways women of color and white women can differ in their definition of reproductive justice.
Posted on Apr 23, 2004

Pro-Choice Groups See Silver Lining in Anthrax Scare
Activists hope that efforts to eradicate domestic terrorism will force the government to acknowledge the history of attacks on pro-choice organizations.
Posted on Oct 22, 2001

http://www.alternet.org/authors/3620

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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. I broke the story of this on DU first
But wanted to research the credentials of the author
and I think they are impeccable.


Thank Yaal!!!!
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. Thanks for doing the work too :)
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. Thanks Yael asked me if I wanted to post it
but, I wanted to wait because I didn't get the author's name
when I first posted it in a thread and it came from the NY post

She thought it was as important as I did
and it is, because it shows the political blatant opportunism
of someone's misfortuneto be used for political gain
without regard to the feelings of those involved in the tragedy
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #81
107. Heya Iching!
I looked as well off and on and couldn't find another source. Someone in another thread asked me to make it an OP, so if figured two requests (mine and hers) and it needed to go.

I just feel horrible for this family.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
83. K & R
:thumbsup:
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TexanDem Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
84. This is what happens when you spread rumors and gossip!
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fifthoffive Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #84
111. Exactly - rumor/gossip
The sheriff's story was at least second-hand, and maybe even more removed than that.

Even if she had been told directly by the boyfriend or parents, it is still a story in which one or more people have a legal bone to pick. This type of anecdote must be checked out because it is more likely than not to be at least skewed/biased if not completely fabricated.
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #111
117. That's why hearsay is inadmissible in court of law - and HRC was taught that at Yale Law
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pompano Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
85. My deepest sympathy to the family
...for such a heartbreaking loss only to be scooped up later and re-told inaccurately in some campaign stump.

I can understand their pain and I do hope this family heals as quickly as possible.

Thousands upon thousands of good citizens are not living under bridges and sleeping in park benches today because of a safety net called welfare. Some people are one paycheck away from being homeless. 49 million don't have healthcare insurance. The quoted term "welfare bum" wasn't a real nice choice of words either, even under the circumstances.

But, thats just me?

Best wishes to this family and I am so sorry about their loss.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #85
91. my friend and his wife went through the same thing
we worked together and it was horrible to watch him go into to depression and rage...his wife did`t get the operation for almost three weeks because the insurance would`t give them an answer if they were going to pay for the procedure...
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
89. I have to wonder if there isn't a backstory here
The transfer to a different hospital makes me wonder if there was some kind of medical error involved in this tragedy.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #89
94. The hospital is changing its story. My guess it is being investigated now.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #94
95. You must have guessed on Math tests too
and guessed on what the truth is, since you have been proven
wrong so many times.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. you are making ASSumptions and look foolish when you do that.



chingcarpenter (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Apr-07-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #94
95. You must have guessed on Math tests too

and guessed on what the truth is, since you have been proven
wrong so many times.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #96
100. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
writes3000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
102. I don't blame Hillary for this. Maybe her campaign staff should have verified it.
But clearly Hillary's intent wasn't to lie or hurt this family.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #102
104. So her Staff is in-charge of Hillary taking a personal story and making it real?
She made it personal. she made it one to take in as a truth
She listened to that SHERIFF AND SHE LISTENED TO CONDI
TO BE BRIEFED ON THE WAR RATHER THAN READ THE MEMO.

The Psychological pathology is disturbing.


Do you really understand what you just wrote or what she really did?

Or was your 'staff' not around to "verify it" to make it your personal opinion on this story?
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
123. "Made her look like she was a welfare bum"
It looks like the family is most upset at appearing like those lazy, good-for-nothing welfare recipients.

I don't blame HRC for this, although, I guess it's best to research a story even if it's told by a deputy sheriff, someone she might have thought had credibility.

I do remember Obama telling a story gotten secondhand as well---about Afghanistan and how poorly supplied a particular military unit was. That was not factual either. The lesson is: check your information even though it comes from a source you think reliable.
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CitizenLeft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
127. I don't understand why they didn't just contact the family 1st...
...find out the facts, then GET THEIR PERMISSION to tell the story if it fits her purposes. "Fits" is being cynical, but still... at least she'd have the facts.

I'm starting to think that vetting anything is not high on the Clinton campaign priority list.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
134. Clinton camp... "hadn't been able verify all the details"
    The Clinton camp told papers it had tried to check out as much of Holman's story as was possible, but hadn't been able verify all the details.
Then why would you use the story? Aside from running a story for which you don't have all the facts, something as personal and private as healthcare would warrant explicit permission from the family, I would think.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
140. This is an attack against health care reform, not just Clinton
The news media story that revealed the patient's identity and distorted Clinton's statements about the case wasn't just a deliberate attempt to make Clinton look bad, it was an attempt to undermine health care reform altogether.

Its a trick to cast a bad light on anyone who criticizes the status quo of our health care system and to send the message that the health care system "works". Same thing they did with Gore in 2000 when he used a story to criticize the high cost of prescriptions.
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #140
145. Thank you!
I can't believe the willfull blindness of so many on this site with respect to this incident. If they could just ignore for a second that it involves Clinton, maybe they could see what the real issues are here.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
142. I'm sure the Clinton camp didn't mean any harm. But the story should have been vetted better
before she started telling it.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
146. ***ALL OF YOU WHO JUMPED ON LIKE SHEEP AND SMEARED HILLARY ARE SHAMEFUL:

Clinton Told True Tale of Woe, Says Kin

By Anne E. Kornblut

The aunt of a young pregnant woman who died after a hospital told her she needed to pay $100 up front for care said in an interview on Monday that Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has been telling the story accurately on the campaign trail -- following claims by a different Ohio hospital that it did not turn the patient away.

For weeks, Clinton repeated an anecdote she heard in Ohio on Feb. 28 involving a young woman who lost her baby and later died because she lacked health insurance and did not have $100 to gain access to a nearby hospital.

But over the weekend, Clinton came under fire when officials at O'Bleness Memorial Hospital, after reading about her remarks, demanded that she stop recounting it because the patient, Trina Bechtel, was admitted there and did have insurance.

That part, it turns out, is true. But so is Clinton's claim that Bechtel did not get care at another hospital that wanted a $100 pre-payment before seeing her, according to the young woman's aunt, Lisa Casto. "It's a true story," said Casto, 53.

Casto added some details that were not part -- or differed from -- the Clinton anecdote: She said her niece had previously been in debt to a local hospital that later sent her a letter informing her that she could only be treated there in the future if she gave them a $100 deposit. At the time she went into debt to that hospital, Casto said, Bechtel was uninsured, though she later obtained health insurance and was insured at the time of her death.

Casto said she did not want to give the name of the offending hospital because the flood of calls over the incident has overwhelmed her and Meigs County deputy sheriff Bryan Holman, a friend of hers who retold the story to Clinton when she campaigned in southern Ohio.

(more...)

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/04/07/clinton_told_true_tale_of_woe.html gton



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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #146
148. They also oppose health care reform
or they wouldn't use this kind of opportunity to defend the pathetic status quo. Their candidate feels the same way.

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JayFredMuggs Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #148
152. You never have any links for your outrageous statements, DO YOU?
Just make it up as you go along, and then ignore the challenge to provide a link ....

I wonder if we could start a list of people who post untruths here and never provide links.
I think YOUR name would be at the top of the list.

Hillary screwed up by not checking out the story. That's the end of it.

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