Countering bitterness

{1} "What seems to us as bitter trials are often blessings in disguise." – Oscar Wilde

The attention being given to Senator Barack Obama’s comments about the bitterness that many Americans feel is a good thing. What’s more, the manner in which Senators Hillary Clinton and John McCain react in identical ways to Obama’s message is also helpful to the Obama campaign. Let’s take a closer look.

An easy experiment can be conducted at any gas station in the country. While filling your tank, ask those nearest to you what they think of the price of gas? Then go to any grocery store, and ask people what they think of the rise in prices. The majority of the people that I speak to express concern over the increasing costs. I have yet to meet anyone who says that they wish prices would go up even more, so that they could get less for their dollar.

People across the country are also feeling the pressure of the economic trends inside their homes. Homeowners are paying huge increases in taxes. The costs of sending a child to college are enormous. Healthcare costs are a burden. And jobs are becoming scarce.

Many Americans recognize that the country is in a crisis today. Obama was addressing this. His opponents’ attempts to take cheap shots at him will backfire. They will come off as being as out of touch as President Bush the Elder when he had no idea how much a gallon of milk cost. And it opens up the opportunity for Obama to have an open and frank discussion with the American people.

{2} "To die is poignantly bitter, but the idea of having to die without having lived is unbearable." – Erich Fromm

I was in the grocery store this week. A relative was wearing a shirt with a picture of President Bush, and the words "Dumb as a Rock." As we talked about politics and the price of groceries, a few other people stopped to talk. My relative said that as an old man, he was glad that he had had the opportunity to live the American dream. But he was angry that his grandchildren and great grandchildren would never have the same opportunities that he had.

All of the people taking part in the discussion, except for me, were grandparents. All of them were upset at the direction that our country is heading in. We talked about the democratic options: some support Clinton, and others support Obama. But no one thought that things are going well in the small towns of America today.

{3} "Much of your pain is the bitter potion by which the physician within you heals you sick self." – Kahlil Gibran

Barack Obama is giving voice to those Americans who recognize that there are some serious problems that cause pain and suffering for families across the country. At her best, Senator Clinton does this, too. That is, in my opinion, why it is troubling to witness her attempts to score cheap points by attacking Senator Obama for telling the truth about the growing sense of disillusionment that Americans feel about the federal government.

Barack Obama was correct in his statements about the problems that small towns and villages are faced with. And the attacks by McCain and Clinton will allow him to continue an open discussion with the American public. I thank McCain and Clinton for that.

{4} "You may write me down in history
With your bitter, twisted lies.
You may trod me in the very dirt.
But still, like dust, I’ll rise." – Maya Angelou

There is an interesting pattern emerging from the attempts to trod Obama in the very dirt of politics as usual. It backfires.

Obama is what in boxing is referred to as a counter puncher. That is a skill that requires perfect balance. The counter puncher allows his opponent to lead. He lets them throw their best shots. And when the opponent is slightly off balance as a result of over-extending, the counter puncher responses with fast, hard combinations. He punches through his opponent’s attack. And it is the opponent who gets dusted.

Where's the spin? Seriously. It's simple logic. Now get up off the floor.

H2O Man is one of the most straight forward, informative and gentle of all posters here. He won't even address you, but I will. You never seem to offer much on DU... H2O Man does.

did you mean some support Clinton and some support Obama...underneath your {2}?

Edited.

and bringing it out for discussion is a good thing. This goes to the heart of the matter of life in these United States at this time. It's bitterness that they are just spectators to people in power that have no connection to their plight. Obama should be able to work this to his favor.

many of the people who are attacking Obama today are the very definition of bitter, as a result of Senator Obama's winning the primary contest. Perhaps that is not a coincidence.

I do think a lot of it was remembeing a time in their minds they feel was superior to the situation now. I also think it is in some part being invested in a candidate they have become certain in their minds about.

aligned than Clinton and Obama do. I realize she's in the race of her life, but it sure doesn't look good. I'm glad this is now up for discussion, though I hope the m$m treats the remarks fairly, and air Obama's response often. I don't know if they will do that.

There is a troubling trend here.

Anyway, I want to make an opinion/statement on the choice of the word "BITTER" Obama used to describe PA/IN/Appalachian people. I don't hear many straight people using the word bitter in conversation or when giving a speech, etc. So, for Obama to use the word "Bitter" gives me the impression there is hope with Obama. He has a little gayness in him. We just need to work on him just a little bit harder to get him to come around to the idea we need equal rights. For example: Talking to babylonsister, I would say to her, "Girl, I can read you like an open book, and your just a tired BITTER ole queen. Come over here and let me take a bite out of you and see if you taste as bitter as you sound"! Do you get where I'm coming from? "BITTER" is not as bad a word as the media is making it out to be.

"Louis wouldn't have a chance; he was too slow...There's no way to train yourself for what he does. The moves, the speed, the punches and the way he changes style every time you think you got him figured. The right hands Ali hit me with just had no business landing but they did. They came from nowhere. Many times he was in the wrong position but he hit me anyway. I've never seen anyone who could do that. The knockdown punch was so fast that I never saw it. He has lots of snap, and when the punches land they dizzy your head; they fuzz up your mind. He's smart. The trickiest fighter I've seen. He's had twenty-nine fights and acts like he's had a hundred. He could write the book on boxing, and anyone that fights him should be made to read it."

- Zora Folley
Sports Illustrated April 10, 1967

This morning on the Saturday Weekend MSNBC News with Alex Witt they had a talking head from Reurters on who lambasted Obama "bitter" comment. They did not have Obama Indiana reply that he gave last night so I sent them the link.

Here is what I sent to the letters@msnbc.com :

I think your morning weekend news should have shown Obama’s comment to the critics of his “bitter” comment.

If you didn’t know he gave this in a speech in Indiana last night.

Here is the link to the comment –

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc9PepjyDow&feature=user

Like most of his supporters I support what he said and most of us agree that we are not going to take these sound bite assaults like this one that some in the media are taking out of context!

NOT THIS TIME!

continue to try to exploit this, much as they do every "controversy" in the campaign. But, in the long run, the more attention it gets, the more that Senator Obama gains.

Thank you for writing to MSNBC, and for providing the link so that others can.

I've been watching Alex Witt all morning and am so frustrated that she hasn't shown Obama's response at all. He did a wonderful job clarifying his point and they act like there's nothing more to report. Candy Crowley did the same thing last night on CNN when she tried to paraphrase his speech in Indiana last night. Of course she fumbled through it because she's not nearly as eloquent as Obama and she made it sound like he hadn't clarified his statement at all. I kept thinking "just show the damn clip!" So annoying!

For the higher costs certainly will.

I was stunned to hear McCain call Obama an elitist. Now here's a guy who lives off the huge accumulation of his wife's wealth. They made a deliberate decision to do it that way, to keep it in her name. That money provides them with a lavish lifestyle, private jets, homes all over the place. The Clintons as we learned recently have over 100 mil in the banks and several costly properties. Neither he nor she have any real idea what Americans are facing. Now the Obama's are secure, better off than most, but hardly in their league. So who is the elitist of the three of them?

Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge them their money, 100 mil sounds pretty damn good to me and I sure wouldn't say no. But please, don't throw the E word around when you are the very definition of it.

and villages in this area, most of the "main streets" have far fewer businesses open than there were 20 years ago. On the outside of town, there may be another new "dollar store," but it isn't like it used to be. We aren't going to go back to those "good old days." That's why so many people are supporting Barack Obama -- of the three candidates, he has the greatest understanding of the issues today, and the ability to lead the nation into the future.

We're forced to eat our seed corn and being told how lucky we are to support sweat shops in China.

We do not "produce" any where near what we once did. More, our economy includes paying huge salaries to "executives" who do not produce.

I live just off Columbus Ave. (NYC) and am shocked at how many empty stores are for let on that Ave. and Broadway. Panda, the greatest copy store ever, was booted because landlords still want those big rents but no one can afford them. Another shocker was when a Ricky's and Subway shop moved into the neighborhood (and are doing well). The former shopping and restaurant mecca of the upper west side is becoming a ghost of its former self.

We are all in this together. From rural America to villages and towns and cities. As Martin Luther King, Jr., said, we move up together, or we go down together.

:kick:

in the early 80's when hundreds of thousands of steel (and related industry) jobs were lost. As a daughter, granddaughter, niece, and friend of steelworkers can tell you....I have heard it all as far as bitterness goes.

Obama is a smart man. Not only does he listen to the stories, he understands them and will provide solutions.

McCain needs to get his head out of his ass as far as criticizing Obama's comments.

Hillary Clinton should know better, but she has become a politician with empty words.

Few things provide more solid evidence of a politician being out-of-touch than when they try to say that people in communities crushed by economic forces beyond their control are chipper and optimistic about how things are going. What are McCain and Clinton thinking? Shouldn't a flashing red light go off in the Clinton campaign, when their candidate is agreeing with McCain on economic issues?

something I rarely do.

has me intrigued !

I just read, responded, and nominated your OP.

I hope that you will consider starting more threads like this. DU benefits from the quality of information that you provided. Thank you.

on their opponent making a mistake? Victory by stumble is a very poor way to win. And what does it say about the person who is sitting, waiting, just like a spider, for their opponent to falter? The belief that if they wait long enough, their prayers will be answered and this, is one rationale offered up to their donors.

For Clinton, I think it is a reflection of what little her campaign has left at this point. It came at a time when her husband brought up the Bosnia thing, and added another dose of falsehoods to it. These are attempts to distract people.

For McCain, it is an attempt to float the image that he is the more mature candidate.

what bothers me the most about mccain is that his 'maverick' status ended some years ago. Yet he goes around like the 'maverick' when he isn't. Like those guys who were football heroes when they were in school and still go around acting like they are still the football hero in their 40s when they never did anything else in there life and are kind of considered a joke in the town. if you know what i mean.

I have done a turnaround on Obama's statement. Admit that at first, I heard that sentence as delivered by the media, completely out of context, and was ticked off. I just heard the whole taped statement, and turns out that "in context" I agree with him.

The word "bitter" is a harsh description of anything; but you can't fix what you refuse to identify and own. And yes, bitter and frustrated is how working class people feel right now. Betrayed and left out of the american prosperity they see around them would also work. Once you name it, you can figure out a solution.

It further clarified the issue for me when I heard McCain and Clinton both come out calling this "elitest" and saying that americans are not bitter. Like calling it like it is is using a dirty word. Left me now with the feeling that McCain and Clinton would like to just promise handouts that neither will fully deliver on, in other words business as usual under the Bush admin.

Obama seems to be saying "here it is, can't describe it in pretty words, because it isn't pretty. So what do we do to change the underlying bitterness and frustration that people are feeling? How do we get through and then past this"?

First he opens up the whole race debate, that I clearly understand most would rather just sweep under the rug and pretend isn't there. But it is, and it affects everything to this day. Define it, dialogue, find solutions. And then he does the same for what has effectively become the working class poor, when everyone else wants to pretend that these people are happy and hopeful for the future. Define it, dialogue, find solutions.

Newsflash - working people aren't happy about NAFTA giving away their livelihoods; they aren't happy about losing jobs for any damn reason; they are freaked that they cannot provide a decent life for their families, or afford health insurance, or gas, or the real fright of seeing grocery prices skyrocket and your kids not have enough - and on and on. They shouldn't be happy about life turning out that way due to our arrangements our country makes to help others outside our country first, before we secure our own people's jobs and concerns. We have diverse groups of people in the US who are bitter for cause. If we pretend that isn't happening, nothing will ever change. We can't get stuck in the bitter/frustrated crap, but calling it out and demanding solutions is the way to start fixing the future.

In context to what has been happening politically, it seems a decent response to governmental indecency. I think a lot of peoples' initial reactions to the corporate media soundbite presentation would be similar to, "Oh, Shit, another personal responsibility scam",...or the gut reaction to, witnessing again, the basic dishonesty of blaming the victim for failure to defend.

Just to say, in that context, I am bitter about Katrina, Siegelman, FEMA, Homelandsecurity...etc, etc. and if we were all given a political voice by way of election integrity, we could do a better job.

Bitter for justice, integrity, accountability, decency...

(I reacted to your post because I had similar reactions to what you for post)

My analogy for Obama's fighting style has been judo, but this "incident" and the immediate clarification and expansion on the theme, really made me think that you were pondering at that exact time, a post about the counterpunch.

Opponent flail? Set sail.

Well done, sir.
You can still float like a butterfly, yourself.

It is a thing of beauty.

In the desert

In the desert
I saw a creature, naked, bestial,
Who, squatting upon the ground,
Held his heart in his hands,
And ate of it.
I said: "Is it good, friend?"
"It is bitter-bitter," he answered;
"But I like it
Because it is bitter,
And because it is my heart."

Stephen Crane

"The truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it, ignorance may denounce it, but in the end, it is there." -- Winston Churchill

He died at only age 28. He also wrote a story - “Great Bugs in Onondaga,”

Electricity provided the impetus for one of Crane’s first published pieces, a Syracuse story which he apparently fabricated for the New-York Tribune in the summer of 1891. In “Great Bugs in Onondaga,” Crane describes a bizarre scene in which an electric arc lamp rigged up next to a limestone quarry attracts a swarm of insects “like electric light bugs, but larger” (“Great Bugs in Onondaga”). The light, put in place in order to enable railroad workers to load train cars at night, instead impedes the operation.

p 48

http://muse.jhu.edu/demo/arizona_quarterly_a_journal_of_american_literature_culture_and_theory/v062/62.1naito.pdf

I hope to see only this kind of humanity and brilliance on these pages :-)

Would someone comment on my post in this thread. Read my post DAMN-IT!:)

I agree. Bitter is not as bad a word as the media makes it out to be.

remember when there were more of the quality OPs and threads that make DU such a valuable place. There were then, and always will be, some people who post nonsense. But I think that as the summer approaches, the majority of DUers are going to unite behind our nominee, and work for his campaign. We can't afford to have McCain elected.

He takes potential disasters head on and clarifies the conversation into something that truly matters to people and not some gotcha sea saw. He doesn't giggle, shrug, lash out or deflect from controversy, whether real or manufactured. This is, I think, the best run campaign I've ever seen, lead by a brilliant man.

The way he responds to these attacks defines who he really is -- you can't fake that -- and allows the public to see what he is talking about when he says we need to rise above the old ways of doing things. He is the role model for the type of leadership we require to heal the damage that the old ways has done.

actually benefiting Obama. If we were gearing up for the GE, he probably wouldn't have spent so much time in Pennsylvania. He's proving that his message does resonate in a state where Hillary was the presumptive victor by a 20 point margin. Hillary's reaction to Obama's comments seemed one of a "gotcha" desperation, especially after her perplexing reaction to the questions about Bill Clinton's speaking engagements for the Colombia trade deal. Why McCain waded into this is more baffling, because he is enjoying a slight lead in the polls, and currently has no opponent, because Clinton and Obama are still engaging each other. Obama's response to "bitter-gate" made both McCain and Clinton look foolish. Bitter-gate highlights the vast differences between Obama and his opponents. Both McCain and Hillary are running 20th Century campaigns, which is all that they know how to do.

And hell yes, people are bitter. Obama nailed it. Here in my area, we used to make the furniture Americans - and the world - bought for their homes. That was overwhelmingly our biggest industry, either furniture makers or suppliers of goods for furniture. When NAFTA went through, people around here were angry. They believed that it would mean their jobs would be sent overseas.

They were right. Now instead of two dozen or more independently owned furniture plants, we have a dozen or less, and many of those are owned by two or three major corporations who bought out their competition - which they were able to do thanks to the loosening of regulations for corporations by Replicans and the Democrats who love them. Empty plants sit all over this area of NC as a testament to the power of their greed, and the destruction of the rural middle class. These corporations have outsourced much or most of their manufacturing; people whose parents and grandparents made a decent living and raised kids on their salary as an upholsterer, a cutter, or a cushion sewer have faced layoff after layoff over the last 15 years or so. They've seen their bosses go from being local owners and managers to being VP's or wealthy retirees after being bought out by these corporations. They've been told that they have to increase their productivity or their job could be sent to China, while they have to rework the Chinese cut and sewn product because of the very poor quality. Then they get laid off anyway, because in the end it's cheaper to send it to China.

A common refrain here is that "the company will look after themselves." It's been a common refrain for longer than I've lived here...and I've lived here 22 years now. And the companies have looked after themselves, at the expense of the workers who made them the successful companies they are.

This long slow decline has tied into the uptick in not only fundamental religiousity but also political fundamentalism. When people are working hard, trying to do the right thing, but everything is still going to hell in a handbasket, they are angry and wonder why. They turn to their political leaders and their religion, and are told that if they could get rid of the gays, get rid of affirmative action, get rid of regulations, get rid of the labor unions, and whatever else is progressive that it would improve their lives and things would be better. Their religious leaders tell them that God will reward them in the next life for the suffering they endure in this life, so they pin their hopes on their mythical sky god who knows the searing pain in their hearts, and will reward them in the end.

They have been brainwashed and propagandized for 25 or 30 years, but they ARE angry and bitter. They know that SOMETHING is wrong, but they don't know exactly what it is, or how to fix it. They don't know who to trust or believe.

Senator Obama understands much better than I would ever have expected or guessed. He impresses me more and more every day.

willingly removed its ability to produce .... manufactoring jobs are being moved to other countries. In one of the industrial communities near me, there are more lay-offs as yet more jobs are shipped out. That means there are that many less people spending money at other places in the area. Our region is hurting.

One thing I find strange is that Senator Clinton would suggest that Obama was not accurate. She has been a good Senator, in my opinion, in large part because she does understand that communities are hurting. Families are being subjected to a large amount of stress. More: in the Bill Clinton presidency, there were attempts to make community services meet the needs of people who were not making it. I'm not saying things were perfect -- there were issues on welfare benefits that I had concerns about. But our regional community services expanded, and we coordinated with other area counties.

Under Bush, the federal money isn't there (it's in the Cheney industries in Iraq), and services are being cut back -- including psychiatric hospitals closing, and hospitals folding -- at a time when the need is increasing. The only area children & youth psychiatric hospital wing was closed. Let's not pretend that although there are some incompetent people in the administration, that the public is chipper and upbeat. It's just not true.

Manufacturing jobs are being sent to China, Mexico, & other countries. GM jobs are practically non-existent, Delphi is going bankrupt. What's left? Well, we have new town-center gorgeous expensive retail shopping centers and yuppie restaurants both paying minimum wages. The shopping centers are void of shoppers and people are using their money to buy gas instead of eating at expensive restaurants. Ohio has a high rate of homes in foreclosure too.

Yeh, we in Ohio have reasons to be bitter and angry. After recently listening to Obama, I'm wondering if Ohio's primary was in April instead of March, if Ohio would be stronger now for Obama than Hillary.

:thumbsup:

"Truth is rarely pure and never simple." -- Oscar Wilde

"Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable, we need to alter it every six months." - OW

:)

This could set up in so many ways that will benefit Obama if he takes it and uses it wisely. The experience argument vs. change is ripe for exploitation in this regard.

Elijah Muhammad taught Malcolm X that you can place a clean, cool glass of water next to a filthy glass, and trust a thirsty man to make the right choice. Barack Obama needs to put his clean glass next to the filthy republican glass. Make it simple.

Obama has to play this one correctly. McCain and Clinton have committed themselves (and again, aligned themselves in a way that I hope the American public takes notice of).

It is time for the media to hear what we, the people, have to say. Obama was right. In our guts, in our hearts, we know this. We work harder and fall further behind. Gas prices, food prices, energy prices are 80-300% higher than just 10 years ago. Wages are not keeping pace. In fact, we are losing jobs. It IS frustrating, it does give one a sense of bitterness when one realizes that they cannot afford to send their children to college or are faced with the difficulty and shame of a home foreclosure.

Obama told the TRUTH. And just like he did when the whole Rev. Wright and race issue came up, he addressed the public honestly and talked to them like ADULTS. That should be our message to those (media, McSame, Clinton) who seek to attack Obama on this topic.

We know what he was saying. We agree. We are sick of politicians like McSame and Clinton ignoring the interests of the people they are supposed to represent. In short, we are not stupid.

is in their 40s or 50s loses their job, it is increasingly difficult to find something that is comparable. And it is happening with increasing frequency, as human beings find that they are little more than digits on a computer print-out to the business "leaders" who are shipping jobs to foreign lands.

Most of us have had the experience of becoming frustrated when we deal with some bureaucracy, such as the DMV or an insurance company. If rather than having an hour of frustration, you have your whole life turned upside down, you may understand the meaning of the word bitter.

Remember when it was the personnell department at work? I don't like the term "Human Resources". The mentality of the bosses is that a resource is something to be used up and tossed in the bin when its spent. Too many bosses think of workers like excess baggage and costs. We're just a drain on the profits and their bonus checks.

:thumbsup:

... the contrast of their shared, dysfunctional behavior and the candidate who consistently tells the truth, Obama;

the candidate who consistently speaks to the shared needs of the People, Obama;

who realizes the essential partnership - that must emerge from this election - among the People and those who represent them, Obama;

the next President of the United States, Obama.

Peace,
Bob

what the choice really is.

Peace,
Bob

If it's not inflammatory and/or 2 sentences long, a lot of people won't bother. Unfortunately, I think they're the ones who would benefit from posts like this the most.

I like the idea of not responding to the posts that are aimed at inflaming tempers and insulting others, and to focus on discussions that promote the democratic party. About 75% of the OPs I post drop like a rock, but I am satisfied if the other 25% get a few responses.

:applause:

Cause and Effect

"This world and yonder world are incessantly giving birth: every cause is a mother, its effect the child.

"When the effect is born, it too becomes a cause and gives birth to wonderous effects.

"These causes are generation on generation, but it needs a very well lighted eye to see the links in their chain."

~ Jalal ad-Din Rumi 1207 - 1273 CE


K and R

Thank you.

There are better ways to do so than to bring it up to his San Fransisco audience as explanatory of the hoi polloi's icky attitudes.

The challenges we face as a country are so big, trival statements taken out of context is not what America looks to as solutions.

Among all the posts on this topic (inc a couple of my own) I think this is one of the best written. Articulate and well thought out. Thanks.

Thank you.

The Democratic candidates should be voicing the same platform. A Democrat should NOT be siding with a repuke.

attempts to gain favor by being on the same side as the republican, it is a sign.

This is something I've been sensing about Obama for a couple of weeks now... ever since the Wright "controversy" and it gives me great hope for the general election. It's happened too often for it to be accidental.

I read a book many years ago called "The Tactics Of Mistake" that adressed this strategy... get your opponent to over reach in a way that you're prepared to counter effectively, and you're well on the way to winning, not just the battle, but the war as well.

on the better nature of the American people. Those who are used to the "politics as usual" messages from others are uneasy when they hear his message.

I like the William Pitt quote.

:kick: Perfect balance. Thanks for pointing that out.

on both HBO and Showtime, there are some interesting fight cards. I wish that there was a good counter-puncher in one of them.

With Obama, we keep seeing the Clinton camp becoming frustrated because they are throwing punches they believed would take this young man out. But they aren't landing. And as each week goes by like a round in the ring, they throw something else. As the weeks go by, it is becoming clearer and clearer -- like in the late rounds of de la Hoya and Mayweather -- that the counter-puncher has built up a big lead on the score cards.

McCain will be like Ricky Hatton trying to beat Pretty Boy Floyd in the general election.

I saw that fight, Ricky Hatton vs. Pretty Boy Floyd that is. That forebodes doom for "Ricky Hatton" in the general election. I'm betting on an early knockout in this fight. At least "Ricky" won't be crossing the Atlantic on his return home from defeat.

Last night's analysis on CNN in re the latest Obama 'flap' was very astute. I'm not observing any positive followups today. Oh well, miles to go before I...

In the end, Barack Obama will prevail. If he is in fact on the canvas it was a slip, not a knock down. Dr. Dean, the acting ref, will be raising his arm in victory.

It's becoming a pattern to talk exclusively about the "bitter" comments, omitting the part when Obama said people who lose jobs cling to guns and religion, as if employed people didn't do it too.

Speaking of patterns.

knowing what has happened to our country & her citizens?

should be opposed to anyone who tries to destroy our Constitutional democracy.

Obama said: "Well look, if there - obviously, if I worded things in a way that made people offended, I deeply regret that.

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ/MGArticle/WSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173355267416

all are based on balance. Judo, boxing, karate and all the others. All are based on the fact that an aggressor is by definition off balance when they attack.

(Ali's wife Belinda taught him the "chop" to the shoulder that he used against guys like Norton. My normal brother had the opportunity to spend a lot of time in his training camp in those days.)

Brilliant!

What is troubling to me is how much the media controls the conversation. I don't think what he said was originally offensive at all and that McCain and Clinton are twisting it to mean something completely different. I also agree that this and previous counterpunches have revealed a truly remarkable and inspiring way he responds to these type of challenges. He is re-defining the political dance. Yet, if they don't air his response to these attacks and only choose quotes that reaffirm the storyline that they are crafting for their various agendas, what if the attack actually has an impact? What if, with these manufactured scandals he can be damaged beyond his control? If no one actually sees (or hears) the counterpunch then will it actually make contact? ;(

I would like to have faith that people are not really as ignorant as Hillary might believe...in spite of any spin by the media. I've been observing this at many blogs. People are seeing through her facade of desperation.

It is over, let's get on with the general election. A month ago would have been soon enough.

I can't believe I have it in me to even hope again. That's why I love Obama so much. He awoke in me a Hope that I thought was dead. The man that gave that speech on March 18th is a man of strength, wisdom, vision,and compassion. America would be so lucky to have him. To take a typical political storm and change it into an opportunity for national healing was such an amazing courageous choice. It blew me away. I have no doubt that that would be his efforts here, yet I fear the evil media machine.

I guess what you describe is the experiment of this campaign. How do people respond when they aren't being lied to? when it is important and hopeful instead of a cynical game? H20man has some brilliant quotes in this thread about it which give me hope.

I live in PA and I am now going to take 4/22 off and do GOTV efforts. It's all I can do but it's something.

It is the combined effort of people at the grass roots level that has opened the door for the Obama campaign. Taking off from work on 4/22 to do GOTV is a valuable contribution. It is participating in the Good Fight, on the team that holds the most promise for the future. Thank you.

Some individual journalists have, in the past two months, expressed admiration for Obama. However, the media itself is invested in keeping any politician who is an agent of change from reaching a position of power.

Even in the small town newspapers -- which are struggling to survive today -- we see the same dynamic. Most reporters start out as liberals. They may have hopes of becoming the next Woodward or Bernstein. But their editors are more moderate, because they have learned from experience that the newspaper is a product that must be sold. And the owners of the paper are conservative: they are business folks, and they are linked with other businesses.

Many decades ago, when I was a college student, I remember the surprise that many felt when they found out that there were representatives of military/intelligence in every major media source across the country (and on every college/university campus). Those of us who paid attention understood, for example, that Mr. Woodward's role was a bit different than the public image.

Today, if you are watching CNN, MSNBC, Fox, etc, you see "retired" military analysts. And they have a huge influence on the way that the news is fed to the public. When I pointed this out to a friend, he said yes, but many of them are very interesting to watch, because they are intelligent and are experts in their field. And I agreed: most of them are articulate and provide "expert testimony," in a sense, about issues such as terrorism, national security, and Iraq. But it has become evident that the major media sources are framing the national debate in terms that meet the needs of the corporations tied most closely to the military industrial complex.

In the earlier stages of the primary, much like in the past 7 years, any candidate who spoke out forcefully against the war culture was marginalized. The media is able to make such people look like out-of-touch idealists at best, and more often, like clowns. How could they do otherwise? There are no "peace experts" on CNN, MSNBC, or Fox. No one who advocates non-violent resolution to international conflicts in a meaningful way. And when there is the infrequent "rebel" such as President Jimmy Carter, who has become a voice of conscience, he is presented as a deranged clown, and his message of peace becomes twisted into a dangerous and unpatriotic rant.

The interests that run the media have been looking closer at Barack Obama in the past eight weeks, since it has become evident that he will be the democratic party's nominee. They are not worried that he isn't Christian, or that he has a dangerous middle name, or any of the other nonsense that is being reported. They are concerned that he is actually intent upon being an agent of social change, and that his style can allow him to win a fair election. And that is why the news is going to turn on Obama as spring turns to summer.

a second time! I think I like the word 'bitter' knowing now the discussion that has followed it.

This has become a very positive thread.

"Obama is what in boxing is referred to as a counter puncher. That is a skill that requires perfect balance. The counter puncher allows his opponent to lead. He lets them throw their best shots. And when the opponent is slightly off balance as a result of over-extending, the counter puncher responses with fast, hard combinations. He punches through his opponent’s attack. And it is the opponent who gets dusted."

is living in a dream world.

about the lady dying from medical complications. The story illustrated the problems that people encounter in trying to access proper medical care. There was some debate about if the story was accurate or not, but to me, that wasn't as important as the point Clinton was attempting to make: people are at the mercy of an impersonal and increasingly cruel insurance industry.

If you had a relative die as the result of a cold-hearted insurance industry, would you be bitter? If so, would Senator Clinton view you as lacking in patriotic qualities? Of course not. She knows very well that families are being subjected to conditions that create the bitterness that Senator Obama mentioned.

he has what it takes to fight for all of us and lead. I voted for Edwards and had not seen much difference between Clinton and Obama regarding policies. He hit the nail on the head regarding how a lot of America has been voting. Many have been voting on wedge issues because they have felt little or no control regarding the real issues. That has been the GOP's tactics since Nixon (keeping us fighting among ourselves) and it's about time someone told them no more.

Thanks for a great post.

The more I see of Senator Obama, the more impressed I am.

MLK was killed for doing the same thing. So were other great people. Now if we all tell the truth there will be too many to attack or worse.

Senator Obama has the potential to be an agent of change. The most important thing that he can change is the way that people think. When people change the way they think, it changes the way they act. When people change the way they act, they change the the things around them. If Obama can help to create this type of a shift at the grass roots level, then the society begins to change.

There is always resistance to such attempts to create change. We even see it here, on an internet forum that is supposed to appeal to progressive and liberal thinkers. Yet we see a group of people who resent the idea of a candidate saying that people must change in order to bring about social changes. Instead, they cling to the idea that someone else can bring the changes needed so that they can stay exactly as they are.

A system that is invested in keeping the country just as it is, will try to discredit and marginalize a person like Obama. They will promote the democratic candidate who is in last place, and the republican candidate, who are pushing an identical message in response to the "bitter" comment. But we have a message for them: Not This Time.

The sad thing is 40% of those in this forum aren't going to understand what you are talking about. There has been an era of ignorance that has been going on for sometime now. It has been help along by the media and the dumbing down of Americans. By seven years of GW and the war that cost us billions of dollars and thousands of lives. Clinton and McCain are only looking at what it takes to win and trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

I grew up in a small town in Oregon in the 1980's when the lumber mills started to close. Jobs started to dry up and the tax base started to shrink. Schools had a hard time getting funding. Even the local library closed for a period of time due to lack of money to run it (it did eventually open, but only after some very bad press).

My personal choice was to get out of there and go to college. I was able to do that because of programs like Pell Grants, Federal Work Study and Stafford and Perkins Loans.

It's funny to see people claim Obama and his supporters are elitist latte sipping liberals. Especially someone like myself from a small town.

who are more comfortable in their misery than they are open to a message of real change. That is, sadly, as true of many of our democratic siblings as any other people. But a change is going to come.

Thanks Bob!

absolute friggin' nuts... the Dumbnamic Duo will say anything to stir up racism and division in people. Will pull any tired worn out friggin' rabbit out of a hat to get a cheap rise out of the worst of people. Really hate that pair. Once again, Obama didn't say anything that wasn't true... and DUMB AND DUMBER turned it somehow into a meme of Uppity Naygro Telling Whites About God and Guns. One again catering to the small minded STUPIDITY OF PEOPLE instead of trying to rise up to a higher ground.

JESUS CHRIST this stuff pisses me off. The GREATEST EFFIN' COUNTRY IN THE WORLD does NOT deserve to be run by REACTIONARY KNEEJERK HILLARY CLINTON or REACTIONARY KNEEJERK JOHN MCCAIN.

WE F*CKING DESERVE BETTER THAN THIS PEOPLE!!!!!



People please, PLEASE, WAKE UP! Do NOT allow these two posers into the White House!!!!

The reference to the counter-puncher as a skill that requires perfect balance is an apt comparison to Obama. He does seem to have perfect balance, doesn't he?

http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/civilCaseSummary/index.asp?CaseType=Civil

CASE NUMBER: BC304174

I'm certain that everyone is aware of this case, three days after the Pennsylvania primary. But why isn't it getting any media attention? Next week maybe?

C'mon guys, click on this link. It is for real. Don't forget to insert the case number.

Someone said that Bill and Hillary were just witnesses. Well, defendant is not synonymous with witness.

guess that this was old news...can't delete.

Surely there must be smoke? Nah, better leave this one alone.

Everything else is flailing spin. And we've been treated to plenty tonight, as I'm sampling these threads. Just because the spin comes from the more eloquent suspects, and took a full day to be scrambled and tossed on the counter, doesn't mean it has any threat of real-world substance.

Hillary is irrelevant to this issue. Obama is the nominee. And the word bitter is also meaningless. That won't be the focus of these remarks and the Obama apologists are well aware of that. It's disingenuous to the core, to even highlight that word. A cheap copout. The punch is a potential boomerang with November arrival. You don't want your jaw exposed when it may not be iron to begin with. People will care if they're molded to care. Right now we don't know the GOP summaritive theme of Obama, the '08 version of flip flopper. There wouldn't be hundreds of comments in the related threads if this weren't potentially damaging, combined with Wright, and whatever comes next. You know damn well there'll be a next, with a smug free wheeling novice at the mike.

This would be trivial in '06, when we had a wide fairway of margin for error in a second term midterm. And we really didn't care where we won, as long as the net was +6 Senate and +15 House. But in '06 we're needy of narrow escapes in specific moderate states like Ohio and Florida. If not those two, then an unlikely straight flush of smaller states, some of which vote red in historical terms, namely Colorado. Anything that reinforces a downward peering stereotype of Democrats has got to be harmful when so much is at stake, and we're no better than a 55-60% theoretical likelihood of success to begin with.

My reaction was worse than a cringe. The GOP commercials are writing themselves. You can all but hear the moderator from the true crime programs, the one who does voice over for Republican ads. With Obama it's like shopping from a catalog or website. You can read all the fine print, choose view larger size from the fancy photos, and try to convince yourself what a bargain it is. But once the package arrives the actual product may not be what you expected, not remotely close.

I think we're being suckered, specifically by overlooking how vulnerable Obama will be in a general election. Charisma is vital in ousting an incumbent. In an open race with the course of the nation at stake you need rock solid resume, no doubts about readiness. But the pathetic revolving door is when you get it wrong one cycle, that only contributes to blowing it again the next time. We ineptly prioritized resume in '04 and that crashed, so now it's charisma and speeches. If Obama loses in '08 we'll be in need of likability against an incumbent in '12, but based on the Obama experience we'll throw out likability and scramble for a resume.

:rofl:

Gimme a break.

Oscar Wilde died a broken man because of his time served in Reading Gaol for sodomy.

He was only 46.

However, the Ballad of Reading Gaol is a masterpiece. Too bad the man was broken by the legal system and did not live long.

You can use such produce as a medium/mixer, or a filler...but people that monitor such things will not be putting it behind their finest labels x(

It is the bitterness of a group of very wealthy people and their cronies firmly entrenched in the halls of power who never in a million years believed that their right to power would successfully be challenged. After all, they have systematically bought all goverment estates, including the media. They own it. The Clintons and some members of the Democratic Party have worked their way into that elite club. They arrived, and in style. They forgot that the concept of democracy inherently means inclusion of the many.

When Edwards made his remark about the "status quo" bitterly fighting back any assault on its ivory towers during the debates, he was right. The Republicans chose the candidate that best represented money without all the fringe element kooky groups they have relied on the past to fight for them. The Dems are still sorting it out. From my vantage point, Hillary is the choice of the status quo on the left. McCain-Clinton...two sides of the same coin.

I'm actually feeling glad this came out. Now people can talk about the promises made and the mistrust of a candidate.

if you haven't seen it. It is from a Charlie Rose interview with BHO in 2004 where he basically talks about the same issues as this "bitter" speech does. Only he he has a more contemplative stance. The man's a thinker.

Posted on YouTube via TPM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oGF3cyHE7M&eurl=http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

But,by god,I'll give it a good kick....keep doing what you do,H2O Man,Because you do it so very well!:kick:

Edit;to correct spelling error.