How do we counter the Rev. Wright meme?

How do we convince Americans that Damnation IS possible without Damning them or giving them permission to Damn others?

Not just a soundbite.

Coincidentlaly, I fund it funny that the meme itself counters the idiotic "Obama is a Muslim" meme .

Okay, so people work on getting others to listen to the WHOLE sermon and they discuss it. What about the fact that most Americans are certain that they "are going to heaven" (I'll have to go look for this research, but I HAVE seen it a few times over the last 10 or so years), i.e. Americans don't believe in Damnation anymore.

Wright is saying America has done wrong and we must Repent, because if we don't, we ARE Damned - but - with the way that churches are being run, "Because Jesus died for our sins, everyone is saved" no matter what. What do we do about this, because as long as people believe that, they will HATE nay-sayers like Rev. Wright.

He should do that before he becomes a Senator for it to be credible. So, I guess he's screwed.

then JFK should have renounced the catholic church and demand excommunication for it's hypocrisy. Doesn't make sense.

many of us perceive was motivated, not by whether such a risk SHOULD have been taken, but was motivated by fact that she planned to run for pResident. Whether you agree or not, many people think HC voted for the Iraq War Resolution (and the DISTINCT possibility that many INNOCENT people would die) BECAUSE she planned to run for pResident, not because it was a good thing to do for us.

IF you actually believe tha BHO must renounce his own church for political expediency, then the same principle applies to HC who has a few things she must renounce too. If you can't say that this DOES apply to HC, then you don't really believe in the principle that you propose and you propose it for reasons that you have not put on the table.

With video of Hagee calling Catholicism a cult and "the great whore". Show him blaming Hurricane Katrina on New Orleans' supposed sins.

Do actions speak louder than words?

If they do.

They why are so many priests still walking around?


(The point being, that there is enough blame to go around the world a million times).

Where are the documentaries about the Black Church, and their customs, culture and style?

We saw the media cover the pope 24/7 during his visit here. Has the media spent equal time covering other such religious events?

VERY MUCH!

And, from my lifetime of experiences, I believe that this is something we MUST begin with: If we're going to talk about "whose fault it is" let us begin with the fact that ALL of "us" share the blame for what has gone wrong. We can talk about that in more detail, for a while, if people really want to, as long as BOTH sides demonstrate their self-awareness of their own responsibilities for this HELL we find ourselves in. But we've got to move on into the solutions milieu AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

So?

Tactically speaking, we use the Rev. Hagee meme - as in John McCain actively sought out the political support of a guy who . . . :

A. Believes and preaches that the Catholic Church is a gigantic cult or, more poetically, "the great whore"

B. Believes and preaches that it is the strategic mission of the US to jointly nuke Iran (with Israeli assistance) so that Pro-Wrestling Jesus Super Action Figure Dude comes out of the sky to kick off their comic book Armageddon;

C. Yesterday, when McCain was visiting New Orleans, repeated his public statement that God struck New Orleans with a hurricane because of a planned gay parade, and general sinfulness and loose living and all the usual suspects.

I listened to his speach, and several sentences before the "Damn" statement he was talking about how wrong America was in dropping bombs and killing a lot of innocent people in Iraq and after doing that we shouldn't say God Bless.....

Shocking as it sounds when you only hear the short clip, if you listen to the entire statement, I don't think it's really different than a lot of Americans have been saying for a long time.

to understand that god should damn Amerika for its "sins" will not be successful. You cannot defeat mania with facts or logic.

Attacking McInsane with Hagee is the only way to MINIMIZE the damage the issue has done. But that would be difficult, if not impossible, even if the campaign tried this tact, because the media would not cover it enough to penetrate the daze of the public.

No matter what, 30% of this country still loves the repugnican party and all the divisiveness, racism, homophobia, xenophobia, sexism and many other phobias and isms. It's not what Reverend Wright said, it's who he is...The SCARY BLACK MAN. It's the "jungle boogie" aspect at work...the replaying of his rant that raises the specter of the bad, evil black man taking control...raping the white women and stealing everything in site. Damn right its racist...and hate radio and the GOOP will stoke the codespeak and vitriol...not about what Reverend Wright said but just the cartoon image to appeal to the racist in their base.

You don't "counter" this as much as point out the elephant in the room. If someone is so damn offended by what Reverend Wright said, then they're looking for a reason NOT to vote for not just Obama but any Democrat. Remember, these are the people who have blood on their hands and remain in full denial. These people don't need to be reasons with...they need to be ridiculed.

care what BHO believes about the issues raised by JW. The fact that they don't care about that Innocent Blood excludes their concern about almost any other value.

But not all potential voters fall in this category; aren't some of these "get-able"?

quote some of the 'wonderful' things said by all 3 of them!

:hi:

Obama hates America because you think his Rev. hates America?

I don't think his Rev. hates America at all. I'd recommend looking up the full context of his quote if you want to be enlightened. But I guess it's just easier living in denial...?

Something like that? I don't remember the exact military record.

BUT if I were ever to run into anybody talking shit about him, I'd simply state that he'd served 2 enlistments in the Marine Corp and 'who are you to question his patriotism' or something like that.

Seems to me that gives him the right to say god damn amerika or whatever he likes.

Listening to him carry on a conversation might go over better than the ranting from the pulpit we see over and over again. That ranting isn't something people are accustomed to hearing in church, so it (alone) is offensive.

I have listened to some of his sermons and he has some great points. They will never include those in the 527 ads.

If he is so bad, how come Clinton invited him to the WH when he was in need? He seems to have been very popular with others, too. Wasn't he invited to the WH by George?

It is sad that they have taken those sound bites out of 30 years of sermons to smear Rev. Wright. They should be ashamed.

Especially on so-called "Christian Americans." They make me want to :puke:

I mean, do yourselves a favor and actually take a second to read about Black Liberation Theology and the writings of its founder James Cone before you start trashing Wright.

McCain - Sought now Glad, Admires and Respects Hagee - George Stephanopoulos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouEINs8uRnQ

McCain is Double Talking - Flip Flopping everywhere

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalr...n-admits-h.html

McCain Admits Hagee Endorsement Was A Mistake
April 20, 2008 12:42 PM

ABC News' Mary Bruce Reports: Presumptive Republican nominee Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., admitted this morning that it was a mistake to accept the endorsement of Evangelical pastor Rev. John Hagee. When asked in an exclusive "This Week" interview with George Stephanopoulos if it was "a mistake to solicit and accept his endorsement", McCain replied "oh, probably, sure." Despite admitting his error, McCain made clear he's still "glad to have his endorsement."

McCain spoke out against Hagee's "condemning of the Catholic church," but added that "I admire and respect Dr. Hagee's leadership... I admire and appreciate his advocacy for the state of Israel, the independence of the state of Israel." McCain has previously admitted to soliciting Rev. Hagee's endorsement.

----


By the Way WHERE was John McCain's Flag Pin????????

Why not talk about how McCain doesn't wear a flag pin? Or nail him ad nauseam (like they do with Obama) about his connections with Hagee/others and call him out on his "flip-flopping."

:hug:

I'm pretty Depressed myself.

But I do take inspiration from Liberation Theology in general. Though I am a fallen Catholic, I learned about Liberation Theology from folks around The Catholic Worker House. BTW, are you aware the popes are known to chastise known Liberation Theologists, in the Catholic church, in PUBLIC.

............................

Jesus died BECAUSE he rejected the control of his CHURCH and the State.

I'm not catholic, but white irish Protestant. I've been socialized to envision my God as white (like myself), but male... anyways, as a woman (another minority) LT really speaks to me. Had I not delved a little further into exploring the Rev. Wright media circus, I would have never discovered this! :)

I think Jesus still scares a lot of people, even the "holy men"!

when they told us about Martin Luther, I remember thinking "Right On!"

I've been wondering why/how Protestants seem to have forsaken their own Birth Right these days, in favor of . . . ????????????

talk about Pastor Hagee and Hillary's pastor who was sentenced to 3 years for molesting a 7 year old child. We also need to pass this on to the media and ask them why are they not reporting on this..

People will get Wright fatigue.

The Avery issue is even more of a smear - Obama has the most tenuous of connections.

Obama has to discuss simply and openly the Avery "connection" - a fundraiser at Avery's house where he was introduced by the state senator whose position he was running for,and sitting on the same board of a charitable foundation. Avery himself will probably be the subject of media interest and scrutiny and possibly some of that can touch on the fact that despite his past he is a respected member of the Chicago community who has had Richard Daly himself speak out for him.

Hillary trying to get milage out of Avery is laughable since he was never convicted of anything, but Bill pardoned 2 Weather Undergrounders who had actually done a lot more.

I think that pretty much demonstrates perpetuity.

We are going to see a lot more of this.

Obama should have ended his relationship with this clown as soon as he decided to run for president for everyones sake.

That he didn't shows terrible judgment on his part. Nice speeches. But piss poor judgment.

Don

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/4/23/202619/124

I’m generally skeptical about suggestions that this general election will be more civil than most. Just look what happened to the Democratic race, which back in 2007 felt like an ice cream social compared with the GOP race. But there are signs of hope.

Today, the North Carolina Republican Party unveiled a new ad criticizing two gubernatorial candidates for endorsing Barack Obama, who, thanks to his association with Rev. Jeremiah Wright, is “just too extreme for North Carolina.” (Watch it here.) But before they even announced it, John McCain had sent a letter to the state GOP chair asking the party not to air it: “The television advertisement you are planning to air degrades our civics and distracts us from the very real differences we have with the Democrats. In the strongest terms, I implore you to not run this advertisement.”

It didn’t work. Despite pleas from both McCain and the RNC, the state party will still run the ad.

I have written Oprah and asked her to please have him on her show - so the world can "really see" the man and how much of what he says is in line with Dr. King.

I think this issue needs to be put to bed - now, so it won't continue to be such a huge distraction.

I had no idea he was going to be on Larry King, that's great, I will watch.

I think there should be other ministers on TV that support Rev. Wright. Even Hillary's former Pastor wrote a letter in support of Rev. Wright.

They should also tell people of MLK's speech concerning the vietnam war and the speech he planned to give the Sunday after he was murdered(Why America May go to Hell).

I think it needs to be put to bed soon, but NOT before certain very specific things/memes are accomplished, so that they can be maintained by those who take the responsibility to do so. People need help with the appropriate things to say about it when they encounter it, which they WILL.

when most people would have never seen it if the media did not splurge it over and over and over and call it 'outrageous'?? I have only seen one ad by a Democrat and that was the Move On ad about betraus.

...about Rev. Wright until he showed up in Republican attack ads a few weeks before the general election?

Because that is what the Rethugs were planning on doing.

A better question is why didn't the media report this a year ago?

Don

lapel pens, bowling etc...it is the free publicity that I abhor, trust me, WE at DU would have known about it, and indeed did and now the media is in a frenzy to show it all over the place FOR FREE! it would cost the GOP a small fortune to get that much publicity for its ad!!!

or look up the word "jeremiad," if they're not the type to own bibles.

People in this country just aint edumacated enough to know what either is.

Hagee is a guy whose goal it is to kill us all. Man, he is insane, to say the least.

:shrug:

he is saying god damns america - the "s" was left off. God does damn america for killing innocents and for treating any people less than human - that is in the bible.

also, tell them what Wright calls for at the end of his sermon - he tells the congregation to stop faulting others and to take personal responsibility for their lives, that its time we all take personal responsibility for our lives. That is not a bad thing and it sure as hell ain't no "black liberation" jive as some try to twist it to be.

http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=abc238bd-7e27-4ee7-ac64-b54b86b9ace3


Especially in NC and IN.

These distractions mean jack squat and should be ignored.

Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee Hagee