My thoughts on Reverend Wright

Some here have expressed the view that Reverend Wright should keep a low profile until after the election, that any exposure at this point will be used against Obama. I disagree. To slink away and hide would be a tacit affirmation of the media smear campaign. Far better to get the truth out there. And what a chance this is for liberal Christians to finally get some exposure, after the past twenty years of media saturation by right-wing fundamentalist nut jobs.

It saddens me how many non-religious people actually believe that the fundies represent the majority of Christians, and despise Christianity as a result. I have no problem with people rejecting a religion for valid reasons, but so many are rejecting the western spiritual tradition without even knowing what it really is. Listening to people like Wright helps them to see that it doesn't necessarily mean anti-intellectual, reactionary, know-nothingness. In truth, liberalism has it's roots in Judaeo/Christian humanism. For many, it leads in time to a rejection of religion alogether in favor of agnosticism or atheism, and I respect that. But I want people to know the truth about what they are rejecting, and not just write it off as ignorance, bigotry and fear-mongering. Yes, it can be that, but so can any way of thought, when misunderstood and misused.

As for myself, I was raised a liberal Christian, then went through an agnostic phase, and had a lot of anger toward religion in general, largely because of the bigotry it has oftened fostered. Now, I have reached a stage where I can affirm many of the truths of religion without feeling the need to subscribe to any creed. I suppose you could say that I use religion, rather than letting religion use me. This allows me to applaud someone like Reverend Wright. He may have a more literal belief in Christianity than I do, but we share a love of it's prophetic tradition of speaking truth to power, of challenging the status quo, of standing for social justice and advocating for the oppressed. He is modelling what the true social message of Judaism and Christianity is, and I don't see any reason why all liberals, whatever their beliefs are, shouldn't applaud that.

Like anything if you don't take the time to try to understand another persons point it is much easier to dismiss or demonize the position.

Christians, and many damn well deserve it, get negative reactions based upon others being judgemental and/or hypocritical.

I am amazed at the Wright controversy for one thing. I don't see comments/slams going back at the Catholic Church regarding how they could sit in the pews for 20 years knowing full well that the Church supported child abuse.

That being said I don't judge Catholics or Obama based upon their attending a specific church.

... stand up for Reverend Wright? Nawww... not if he can be used to divide and control the Democratic Party. Who need enemies with 'friends' like those who shit where they sleep, huh?

I guess he's just another 'far left activist.' Screw him. Right?

:puke:
:puke:

FWIW, it makes me glad to call myself an independent liberal when I observe the vipers in the "Big Tent." Keep the tent - I'll sleep under the stars.

something else. Where are the Christian leaders in this nation? Why aren't they helping to defend their brother? Their religion? So so many of them, have always preached the book of Revelation which claims that God will destroy the WORLD with famine, disease, wars, and ultimately fire and brimstone. The WORLD. Many of them preach every Sunday, about reaping what you sow. I guess he was right. Their love of country comes before their love of their God. Why are they not being more vocal. Attention Christian Leaders in this nation. You could at least write a letter in support of your brother who is being stoned in the public square. Hypocrites!

We couldn't believe how the mainstream, evangelical church we attended at the time, could be so enthusiastic about war.

They even had some sort of ceremony where they invited uniformed officers (cops, navy, army) and they marched into the service. I thought that was very inappropriate, and it reminded me of British soldiers setting up quarters in colonial homes during the American Revolution.

My husband asked the pastor's wife what about the Bible saying to pray for our enemies? That's what the pastor from our previous church had preached. That pastor had said we should pray for both our president and for Saddam so that they would make the right decisions. The pastor's wife of the newer church we were attending just kept shaking her head and saying, "We believe Saddam's an evil man, and he should just be TAKEN OUT!" Needless to say, we stopped going to that church.

We know our Christianity would be questioned, but it was intolerable to us, and especially to me, an immigrant whose country had been repeatedly destabalized by American intervention, to just tacitly go along with war being hyped up by people who had never lived on the receiving end of American aggression.

Having partly grown up in the US, I have seen the good in America, and I fully embrace it, so I would defend this country as I pledged to do in the oath of citizenship. In fact, 2 close family members and a few close family friends are service members. But my willingness to accept the premise for pre-emptive war is tempered by the indelible mark left by what I experienced in my early childhood.

that I too "lost my faith." I was so disillusioned by the idea that war against another unrelated country was being "blessed" by God. I can't quote scripture, but I remember sermons preached on the absolute necessity of Christians to protect, defend, support Israel. Apparently God doesn't mind if we kill countless brown people. Even if you believe in that Isreal/Christianity philosophy (which I do not), it has absolutely NOTHING to do with Iraq. All I know is that if there is a God, and there is a judgment day, there are going to be many so-called Christians in for a rude awakening.

What is making me the most frustrated about all of this, is we are supposed to have separation of church and state, yet they're judging Obama on his pastor, they hosted a Compassion Forum, and several other things that relate to the candidate's religion. It is irrelevant and disgusting that they can use these tactics to harm a very good candidate.

Pre-emptive war is a sure way to lose. If the powers that be don't believe in the Constitution they at least should look back on history and make note of how the former superpowers of the world fell. True patriots have a problem with pre-emptive war, as they should, because the military is to protect and defend, not attack and conquer. My grandfather was a Navy man and was in Pearl Harbor when the Japanese dropped their bombs. That was an attack. That was a necessary war. That was a true fight for the defense of freedom. Iraq is a fight for oil. That's what makes it especially disgusting. It's disgusting enough even when it is technically "justified." When we are attacked and kill innocent civilians who had nothing to do with their government's actions. I wonder how we would react if suddenly we were invaded because someone decided to "free" us from the Bush regime. Nobody ever seems to stop and see things through the eyes of all those innocent people.

there has been a LOT of support of Reverend Wright from other Christian leaders in this country, even including fundamentalists. It just hasnb't gotten much play from the MSM.

What disturbs me the most is the wringing of hands by the supposed "liberals" who are telling us that Wright should keep his mouth shut.

They're the same kind of people who "advised" MLK to keep his mouth shut about the war in Vietnam because it might hurt the almighty Party.

:puke: indeed

Sad, but true. There is so much animosity among and between Democrats, it gets disheartening.

and I came away with a lot of respect for the man, his intellect and his moral values. Rather than just a small clip, they showed the "God damn America" moment in its larger context and to me it was not offensive.

"And what a chance this is for liberal Christians to finally get some exposure, after the past twenty years of media saturation by right-wing fundamentalist nut jobs."

The thing is to get to the normal Christian pastors, (no reference to Wright here....Hagee is more what I am talking about) to stand up and take away the power of that freak fest that is used by the Republican party to gain votes. And yes they do USE fundamentalist Christians to gain votes. One friend of mine said her Catholic church made it seem like if they voted Democratic than they were not following Jesus and somehow use this to scare the parishioners.

What are the rest of us, thinking, reasoning people, chopped liver? Jesus made a point to berate even the so-called religious leaders because they were doing injustice to the poor, the orphans and the alien among them. That sort of talk is anathema in fundie churches.

And by less I mean support from swing voting independents that went for Bill in 92 and 96. The Rev. can speak truth to power all day long and the more he does, more of this group that Obama has to have will leave. The Rev. will kill Obama if he
has not done so already.

wishful thinking on your part.

But I have to say it is heartbreaking to see his campaign getting hijacked by the reaction to the Rev. I'm watching the news
now and the polls are already reflecting the damage the Rev. is doing. For me this is sad because Obama is the leader of our times but he will be undone by Wright.

anyone who runs for the Presidency cannot risk having anyone around him who might say something that a poorly informed person might find controversial. If you are correct, then this country is alrady doomed and not worth saving anyway.

John Thomas spoke at the rallies in Washington sponsored by United for Peace and Justice and/or International ANSWER.

Sorry for the thread sidetrack. Loved your post. "Blessed are the peacemakers", if you don't mind hearing that from a non-Christian.

I wonder if people remember a while back when the networks refused to air ads for the UCC because they showed all kinds of people being welcomed: black, white, rich, poor, gay, straight? Those ads were too "controversial," too "political." This is hardly the first time the UCC has been singled out for abuse by the media.

eternal truths exist within religion. It's like everything else in life, you have to dig through all of the pebbles in order to find the jewels, but they are there for the earnest seeker.

It sounds to me that you are accepting faith rather than a specific religion.

I was brought up catholic and had completely lost faith and belief in religion altogether.

I am now in a place probably close to where you are.

I disagree with you about Reverend Wright slightly, in that while a like part of his approach where faith isn't all there is, and he puts a face on his beliefs, but he is a bit overbearing, much like the fundamentalist.

It gets stale after a while, where as the fundamentalists are stale from the start.

bill from ct

Separation between church and state should dictate that this man should have no connection with the Obama campaign.

Wright's message will only hurt the Obama campaign. If you can't see that you are blinded to the reality of the situation. His messages are of a Hollywood sensationalist style and often contain messages where he distances and even disowns his own country.

If Obama wins the democratic nomination, I'd like to see him not have to foolishly struggle against claims that he is unpatriotic because of his association with Wright when he should be busy slapping McCain around instead.

have not listened to Wright's speeches or sermons in full. Or you are just determined to think the worst of him.

It is absurd to suggest that a person's religion isn't going to enter into his public life. The separation of church and state has to do with keeping the government and religion seperate as institutions. It was never meant to prevent a person's religion from being discussed in the public arena. Would you say that the neocon's love of Ayn Rand is out-of-bounds? What if a candidate was a member of the KKK? That shouldn't be a part of the public debate about them? Religion is no different. It is a very important part of what determines the character and belief systems of many people. Of course examining it should be a part of the process by which we select our leaders.

What is unfair about the current coverage of Wright is that it is biased, incomplete and propagandistic. Further, the religious associations of the other candidates are not being examined AT ALL.