Seriously. How "free and fair" will the Indiana/NC elections be?

I'm just wondering about the party stalwarts in Indiana and NC--and if we can trust them to have
enough voting machines on hand in the more populous areas of their states? Will we see machine
breakdowns in the urban areas or in areas where there is a large concentration of African
American votes?

I'm wondering about the processes and the machines in these states? What kind of machines
are we voting on?

We all know that some states have been really corrupt and other states where cheating isn't likely.

Does anyone know the scoop in either of these states?

be on there toes and watching for that very thing.

for an Obama Loss.

Greasing those skids early.

Nice touch.

I believe Obama will win Indiana. The polls I've seen have him up by 1 or 2.

This post has nothing to do with my believing that Obama will lose--because I don't feel that way.

Just the opposite is true.

In fact, I saw Evan Bayh on CNN the other day, downplaying Hillary's chances in Indiana. It's the Hillary
side that is lowering expectations. Bayh droned on and on about how this is an open primary and they
probably won't do as well as many are saying.

Try again.

So, what...in addition to propagating "obliteration" and empty 30-cent gas giveaways and Rovian politics--the
Hillary supporters are now against legitimate elections?

Unbelievable.

Anyone else need a stack of Tums next to their computer, just to wade through the the bile-fest that is the
Hillary campaign?

If Hillary wins...like in NH...he election was crooked.

Is Obama wins it's fair and square...according to DU.

...that Obama is a man of integrity, and he's someone who would not cheat.

Look how he's run his campaign--so above board. He's never waded into the steamy swamp of Hillary
and Bill's corruption, sexcapades and other assorted failures.

Hillary, on the other hand--has dug her nails into every Obama misstep and poorly worded sentence--and
has leveraged her campaign by hyper-exploiting anything that could damage Obama.

Look at Obama during the debate, when asked about Hillary's Bosnia sniper fire lies. He said that
they're all under the media microscope, constantly--and he wouldn't criticize her for that. She
fabricated stories about being under sniper fire, and he took the high road. Obama's pastor makes
incendiary comments--and Hillary's out wailing like a dog that this directly speaks to Obama's
credibility and his character.

She's a louse. She's capable of it and most of you know it. But you don't care.

It is obvious that Obama has more integrity and honesty than Clinton. It's apparent in
how they run their campaigns, how they treat others.

Let's not play games and pretend we don't all understand this.

"Obama's pastor makes incendiary comments--and Hillary's out wailing like a dog that this directly speaks to Obama's credibility and his character."

What BS! Why don't you quote what she said? Because it would prove you were a fabricator of lies.

By the way...it does reflect on his credibilities and character and judgment. Just when was she wailing like a dog? Got a link or video?

cheat. It's their very nature.

That they have prominent supporters in both states (unlike PA) so that the there will be fewer voting machines breaking in African American districts if that's what your getting at.

I think it's dangerous for Hillary and Bill to have the unfettered support of
any one state's political apparatus.

They're thieving whores.

Know how many people walked away in Philadelphia when machines started breaking however she did win the state...the tom foolery is only good for 1-2%. Voter Fraud only works in close elections.

But go ahead - move those goal-posts!

...and if they have paper trails, and if the top dogs in those states and
decent and honorable people.

How you spin that into me believing that Obama will have a poor performance--is beyond me.

I'm optimistic about Indiana. I've seen two polls lately, and Obama was up by 1 or 2. I'm not
worried about Obama's performance, but I am concerned about dishonest politicians on Hillary's
side who may help her out in unscrupulous ways.

That's why I asked about the machines and the integrity of the election officials and party
stalwarts in those two states.

While you're talking goal posts---this entire post was about chess.

Try to keep up.

funny though.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10057.html">This article outlines the effects on the race of the recent Supreme Court ruling upholding the state's strict voter registration laws.

I don't think Obama is winning Indiana, Hillary has been up in most of the polls there I've seen. In the North Carolina polls Obama seems pretty consistent at 49 to 52 percent, with Hillary around 39 to 43 percent.

you can vote early here. when Obama appeared at a rally on Wed. he gave specific directions about how to vote early, gave the address of the place to vote, and told people to bring both a photo i.d. (now required) and a piece of mail to show they live at an address, if this is their first time to vote.

the early voting is coming from the Obama camp. Indiana does have paperless voting machines, and has for a while. The city/college areas are going for Obama. we'll see, I suppose, how those who have been devastated by the Nafta highway will vote.

Will not be carried by Obama. I lived there for 3 years and its not going to happen. Open Primary and Operation Chaos adds 5% to Hillary Column.

but it's a stat tie now, so it doesn't hurt to try. also Bayh is putting the screws on all the state demo chairs. I wish IN could launch a "Ned LaMont" campaign to unseat him.

I'm looking at moving asap. I've loved living in Bloomington, but I'm not from Indiana and I'm sick of living in the middle of a red state with major nutcases. Old geezers used to go on about how Canada is an evil socialist state b/c they have uni. health care. Some of the old men in this state are scary. honestly. John Birch is still here and there are militias. One younger geezer told me back in 2002 or so that he'd told his "outfit" that if they ever asked him to turn guns on his fellow citizens, he was out. well, THAT was a relief. :eyes:

I know you have kooks everywhere you go. I'm from the south and it's even worse there in other ways.

Bloomington is a bastion of liberalism compared to there. Not insulting a state or its values but I'm glad to be back in a place where people don't ask you where you go to church as part of the introductory conversation.

The state is always the first state called for the GOP in any Presidential Race. It gets called 1 second after the polls close.

Bayh has to be DLC there...if he was any more liberal he'd be voted out very fast. Any statewide democrat there is going to be on the conservative side.

Recount!

Voter fraud!

Vote suppression!

Vote tampering!

I couldn't find my poll!

My voting machine was broken!

Cheater!

Where do I file my lawsuit?!

The Democratic Party slogans -- excuses for losing for over 50 years.

Voter Fraud works...in anything over 5% it doesn't. I'm not that worried. I do find it funny that voting machines always seem to break more in the poorer areas and in the subburbs and countryside they have more voting machines than they need in elections.

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2008/5/3/121649/6290

Let's Talk About the "Potential for Voter Fraud"

by clammyc
Sat May 3rd, 2008 at 12:16:49 PM EST


snip//

The game is fixed. The deck is stacked. And don’t think it isn’t already being stacked for this November as well - from the hackable voting machines to the disenfranchisement to the suppression that will occur on Election Day.

The SCOTUS decision was another nail in the coffin that is the farce of “free and fair elections”. There is no such thing, and will not be such a thing until the severity of the problem - the depth of the rot - is called and exposed for the entire country to see and that the system itself undergoes a wholesale change.

Paper ballots aren’t the problem. People showing up to vote more than once or without proper ID is not the problem.

Rigging the entire system from the inside is the problem. And it is a problem in nearly every state.

And until that is addressed and changed, voter ID laws will just continue to be the shiny object that distracts from the fact that each of the past four elections have, in one way or another - on one level or another - been stolen.

controlling both the House and Senate?

How is it possible that there are Democratic governors and Mayors?

Could it be that your paranoia has taken over?

Senate, and barely control the House, and that's only been since 06. Since 2000 they've been toothless, with a madman as prez. Pay attention!

Op scan is better because you could hand count ballots if you wanted to. Or, you could conduct an audit. But those paper ballots are useless if nobody looks at them.

There's plenty of room for fraud and there's no reason, really, to trust the results.

61 counties use paper ballots with optiscan machines (of course the central tabulators still do the final count) The rest of the counties have some type of touchscreens, which they got sold through HAVA.
The touch screens have been a mess in NC and provide a good example of why NOT to use them. The smarter counties did not go that way and most likely won't in future.

www.ncvoter.net has a good page on this: http://www.ncvoter.net/machines.html
---------------------

There have been some recent reforms in NC voting laws and practices:
http://www.ncvoter.net/nchistory.html
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This group is also working hard to clean up North Carolina elections:
http://www.democracy-nc.org/AboutUs.shtml

your politics, that is